Devolved Budget for Wales: Inflation

Debate between Baroness Penn and Lord Morgan

Wednesday 15th March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

My Lords, I reiterate to the noble Baroness—and to the Welsh Government—that the Welsh Government, in the 2021 spending review, received the largest annual settlement in real terms since the devolution Act. I also say to the noble Baroness that, with the inflation that we are facing across the country, the budget is still growing in real terms across the spending review period. The Autumn Statement included additional funding for Wales, and today’s Budget means that the Welsh Government will receive an additional £180 million through the Barnett formula across the next two years. Measures that we are taking across the UK in today’s Budget will benefit Wales: the extension of the energy price guarantee; the freezing of fuel duty; and the doubling of draught relief, which will support more than 2,000 pubs and bars in Wales. There is much to be welcomed in today’s Budget for Wales.

[Lord Morgan (Lab)]

My Lords, is it not the case that Wales has been inadequately funded under both Labour and Conservative Governments? Many reports have been debated in your Lordships’ House. I recall the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, saying how inadequate it is. The Barnett formula is a fraud; it seriously underfunds Wales. Furthermore, Wales in any case suffers from long-term problems in matters such as housing and education, which relate to the fact that Wales is bracketed with England—a bad idea in the first place. We need something much more substantial than what were—I agree with the noble Baroness—some beneficial points today. Otherwise, Wales will continue to lag behind.

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

I believe the noble Lord was referring to the Lords Committee on the Barnett Formula in 2009, which called for a review of that, including implementing a needs-based factor. That is exactly what we have done through implementing the recommendations of the Holtham commission, which found that the Welsh Government should have at least 15% more per person than equivalent UK government spending to reflect the Welsh Government’s additional needs. In fact, that figure is 20% more per person in the 2021 spending review, which is about £1 million more each year than the Holtham commission indicated and which the Welsh Government agreed was fair for Wales relative to England.

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[Baroness Penn (Con)]

It is a difficult thing, but one that this Government are committed to. That is why I am so pleased to see that as a result of the measures announced in this Budget today, we have seen the OBR adjust its growth forecasts upwards by the largest amount based on supply-side reforms since its establishment in 2010.

[Lord Morgan (Lab)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness mentioned the Barnett formula in terms of great approval. How does one reconcile that with the view of Lord Barnett about his own formula when he said he was deeply ashamed of it? Why are the Government not equally ashamed?

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

My Lords, I believe we are having a whole debate this evening about the Barnett formula. I simply say to the noble Lord that, yes, all allocation systems have strengths and weaknesses. The reforms I spoke about earlier in this Question, introducing a needs-based factor into the Barnett formula for Wales, have addressed one of the major weaknesses that was identified.

Wales: Additional Financial Resources

Debate between Baroness Penn and Lord Morgan

Wednesday 18th January 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

I do think it is important that, when we look at our public spending, we take into account the needs of the various areas. I have described how we do that when it comes to the Welsh Government. We also have that process when we look at, for example, funding for local government. That is a principle that the UK Government will continue to support in our approach.

[Lord Morgan (Lab)]

My Lords, in addition to the excellent financial points that have been made on both sides of the House, would the Welsh Labour Government not benefit from having greater powers, of the kind of “devo-max” proposed in Gordon Brown’s excellent proposals on the constitutional settlement?