Local Authority Finances

Debate between Baroness Penn and Lord Swire

Tuesday 6th February 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

My Lords, of course I acknowledge that, in 2010, difficult decisions had to be made about public finances both centrally and in local government. However, in recent years, we have seen real-terms increases in the finances going towards local authorities. I also recognise the pressure that they face on issues such as adult and children’s social care and special educational needs provision. We have seen real increases in demand. Alongside additional funding, we need to look carefully at the right reforms to put in place to help manage that demand, without just putting in more and more funding.

[Lord Swire (Con)]

Is there any appetite within the Government to look at the existing structures of local government? It seems increasingly difficult to justify having parish councils, town councils, district councils, county councils and unitary authorities. Is it not time to review the value for money we get from these different tiers and possibly to rationalise them?

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

My Lords, the levelling-up White Paper set out our ambition for every part of the country that wanted a devolution deal in place to have one. As I referred to earlier, we are seeing trail-blazers of greater devolution in mayoral combined authorities, where we can put power back into the hands of local communities.

Building Repairs: VAT

Debate between Baroness Penn and Lord Swire

Thursday 14th December 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

I absolutely recognise the points that my noble friend is making, but the Listed Places of Worship Grant Scheme is making a real difference to churches, as recognised by the right reverend Prelate. It gives grants covering the VAT on repairs of over £1,000 to listed buildings used as places of worship. It is not coming to an end; it runs until the end of March 2025. Of course, any decisions for the spending review period after that will come in due course.

[Lord Swire (Con)]

My Lords—

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, have the Government undertaken a cost assessment of the number of schools that have asbestos in them and that are also affected by RAAC? They need replacing, because the children in these schools are currently at risk of exposure to asbestos fibres, and the same applies to many hospital buildings. Has there been a comparison of the costs of renovation versus replacement for these public buildings?

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[Baroness Penn (Con)]

I acknowledge the point that the noble Baroness has made. We are doing two things in this area. We have updated the National Planning Policy Framework so that, in determining planning applications, local planning authorities should give significant weight to the need to support energy efficiency and low-carbon heating improvements to existing buildings. Specifically on the practical planning barriers that households can face when they are in conservation areas or listed buildings, in our energy security strategy, published last year, we committed to reviewing the barriers that people in such buildings face. That review is under way and I believe that the outcome will be published shortly.

[Lord Swire (Con)]

My Lords—

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[Baroness Penn (Con)]

I do not have a figure for the overall cost, but the noble Baroness is absolutely right that it will be important for social housing to help make the transition. A lot of our early support has focused on this housing stock—for example, through the social housing decarbonisation fund—because local authorities will need support to take these measures and because the benefits of greater energy efficiency and lower bills need to be targeted at lower income households first.

[Lord Swire (Con)]

My Lords—

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[Lord Swire (Con)]

They tried to silence me.

The right reverend Prelate is absolutely right to raise this issue again, and we should continue to raise it. The Government hid for years behind the fig leaf of the EU, saying they were unable to vary the rate of VAT. We are now out of the EU and this is the time to look at that. If the Government are serious about reusing and refurbishing our stock of older properties, they should look again. We are not asking for any kind of VAT reduction; we are looking for parity. I do not understand the intellectual argument for two rates of VAT—one which clearly discriminates against the built heritage sector. On that subject, I just say to my noble friend that, if she talks to anybody in the heritage sector, as I am sure she does, she will find that the backlog of repairs because of this pernicious rate of VAT is now extremely concerning.

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

I say to my noble friend that we are taking advantage of the flexibilities we have since leaving the EU in reducing rates of VAT. We have announced that the installation of qualifying energy-saving materials in residential accommodation has a zero rate of VAT until March 2027. This support is worth over £1 billion and will help households and charities improve their energy efficiency in buildings and reduce carbon emissions. As I said earlier, we get requests to reduce the rate of VAT across a number of different areas, and we consider them very carefully, but they have to be considered in the context of how much revenue VAT raises. As I said, the total cost of requests across different areas has totalled some £50 billion since we have left the EU.

General Elections: Party-political Spending

Debate between Baroness Penn and Lord Swire

Wednesday 29th November 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

My Lords, this is not an unusual exercise. In fact, uprating has been done under successive Administrations of all political colours and is done regularly for other matters too. It is provided for in the original legislation passed by this Parliament. By using those powers, we are simply restoring the levels of spending limits that were provided for by Parliament.

[Lord Swire (Con)]

What is the view of the Government about the allegations that some political parties or political operatives are seeking to lure away existing elected Members of the other place with promises of money? Is that something that the Government will be looking at?

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

I am not sure of exactly what my noble friend refers to. None the less, it sounds like a serious matter that I would want to speak to him about after this Question.

Bank Accounts

Debate between Baroness Penn and Lord Swire

Wednesday 19th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

My Lords, that is why it is important to distinguish between the PEP regime, which has caused problems for people, and questions about banks’ actions in relation to freedom of speech or political views. It is important, though, in both circumstances, whether you are a PEP or you have expressed any view that is lawfully held, that you have access to bank accounts. In taking forward our work on PEPs in particular, we are mindful of always maintaining our commitment to international standards in this area, and our amendments to the Financial Services and Markets Act do just that.

[Lord Swire (Con)]

Has my noble friend had any discussions with her colleagues in the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office about the fact that some overseas missions find it impossible to open bank accounts in the UK? This happens the entire time, and it seems rather invidious to ask these people to come here to open embassies and then say they cannot bank when they are here.

VAT: Building Repairs and Maintenance

Debate between Baroness Penn and Lord Swire

Wednesday 19th April 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Swire]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the case for applying the same rate of VAT to building repairs and maintenance as to the construction of new homes.

[The Parliamentary Secretary, HM Treasury (Baroness Penn) (Con)]

The Government maintain a zero rate of VAT on new-build residential or qualifying buildings to incentivise the construction of new homes and increase the housing supply. The Government do not have plans to introduce a new VAT relief for building repairs and maintenance. Introducing a new relief for repairs and maintenance would have a significant fiscal cost, which would lead to associated spending, borrowing or tax decisions taken elsewhere.

[Lord Swire (Con)]

I am most grateful to my noble friend, but she will have to concede that new building emits 48 megatonnes of carbon dioxide in the UK each year—equal to the total emissions for the whole of Scotland, and that is before you get to the emissions coming out of the SNP headquarters as we speak. Conversely, if we are serious about addressing climate change, we should look at refitting and restoring existing housing stock. Now that we are outside the EU, I simply cannot understand why we cannot have one level of VAT, or even a 5% level, both for new housing and for refurbishing and restoring old stock.

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

My noble friend raises an important point. He is right that the renovation of existing properties can be an energy-efficient way to bring them back on to the market. There are special reduced rates of VAT for the renovation of properties that are converted either from commercial to residential use or from one residential use to another, if they are renovated after a period of two years without use. A temporary zero rate of VAT applies to installations of qualifying energy-saving materials, such as insulation, to address some of the points my noble friend raised.

Defence Spending

Debate between Baroness Penn and Lord Swire

Thursday 16th March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

I think the Secretary of State for Defence has been very positive about the money announced at the Budget and previously, and this Government have overseen the largest investment in defence since the Cold War. The British Armed Forces remain among the best in the world; that is why we are a leading NATO partner. Over the last 10 years, the UK has been NATO’s second largest defence spender, after the US, and we spent almost as much on defence as 20 other NATO members combined. Future Soldier, the Army’s response to the integrated review, will deliver the largest transformation of the British Army in more than 20 years. As the threat changes, we need to change with it, and we have set out a plan to do so.

[Lord Swire (Con)]

I very much welcome the Prime Minister’s recent announcement about the replacement and refurbishment of the nuclear submarine fleet. Can my noble friend say from which budget that money is coming and, critically, can she confirm that the other political parties have signed up to this, given the long-term impact and programme that it will require?

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

I will let the other parties speak for themselves, but this is a long-term commitment to investment in our own security. The money we are investing in the defence nuclear enterprise is additional funding; it is not coming from any existing contingency, and I am happy to confirm that to the House.