Health and Care Bill

Debate between Baroness Penn and Baroness Walmsley

Lords Hansard _ Part 1 & Report stage
Wednesday 16th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

I remind noble Lords that only short questions of elucidation are allowed on Report.

[Baroness Walmsley (LD)]

Many thanks. I suggest to the noble Lord, Lord Naseby, that a lot more people will be dead from tobacco if we carry on at this rate. He suggested that, just because this measure was not in the Conservative Party’s manifesto, perhaps we should not carry it forward. Well, the Conservative Party does not have all the best ideas, although I congratulate the Government on the sugary drinks levy, which has been highly successful. We support the polluter pays amendment introduced by the noble Lord, Lord Crisp. I might call it the killer pays amendment because, make no mistake, this is a killer substance.

I happen to live in Wales so I want to raise a matter that has not been mentioned yet. I am glad that the Welsh Government have committed to a smoke-free Wales by 2030. However, although England announced its intention to go smoke-free by 2030 two years before Wales did, Wales has leapt ahead as regards action, which is why I hope that the Minister will either accept Amendment 158 or give adequate assurances. In the Green Paper of July 2019, the Government said:

“Further proposals for moving towards a smoke-free 2030 will be set out at a later date.”


Approaching three years later, still nothing has happened. There are no further proposals and no funding has been announced. In contrast, Wales has published concrete proposals, but many of the interventions require action from the UK Government. Examples include the polluter pays funding mechanism, which could help to fund tobacco control in Wales; raising the age of sale; and putting warnings on cigarettes and pack inserts. I am concerned that, by being so slow, the UK Government are undermining the ability of the devolved Administrations to achieve their smoke-free ambitions. We will support the noble Lord, Lord Crisp, if he chooses to put this amendment to a vote.

Health and Care Bill

Debate between Baroness Penn and Baroness Walmsley

Lords Hansard - Part 1 & Report stage
Tuesday 1st March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

My Lords, in moving Amendment 1, tabled in the name of my noble friend Lord Kamall, I will speak to the other government amendments in this group in his name.

Amendments 1, 76 and 77 are consequential amendments to two pieces of legislation that have been before Parliament during this Session. These amendments relate to the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill and the Armed Forces Act 2021, and replace references to clinical commissioning groups with references to integrated care boards, and references to the NHS Commissioning Board with references to NHS England. Amendments 110 and 126 are purely minor and technical in nature to correct small drafting points in Clause 79 and Schedule 16.

I turn now to capital expenditure. The Government have listened carefully to the debate on Clause 54, and Amendments 88 to 91 will ensure that the powers in Clause 54, alongside our commitments to publish further operational guidance, are in line with the agreement between NHS Providers and NHS England in 2019. These amendments limit the powers to set capital expenditure limits for NHS foundation trusts, so that they cannot apply for periods longer than a financial year.

NHS England will continue to work with NHS trusts and foundation trusts to ensure sustainable use of capital expenditure, and it is our intention that a capital limit would be imposed only if other ways of resolution have been unsuccessful. A limit would be set only where usual financial reporting returns identify a likely breach of system expenditure limits. We therefore expect that the vast majority of capital limits will be set either in-year or shortly before the beginning of a financial year.

I reaffirm the Government’s commitment to ensuring that these powers are used only as a last resort, as NHS England agreed with NHS Providers. I am grateful to both NHS Providers and the noble Lord, Lord Crisp, for their constructive work in ensuring that these powers reflect that intention.

I hope noble Lords will therefore be supportive of these amendments. I beg to move Amendment 1.

[Baroness Walmsley (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for explaining the government amendments. I particularly welcome Amendments 88 to 91, because the Bill will now reflect the agreement made with the NHS foundation trusts in a much closer manner than in its original drafting. They are very welcome.

NHS Test and Trace

Debate between Baroness Penn and Baroness Walmsley

Monday 28th June 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

My Lords, the test and trace programme seeks to partner with all organisations that can help its effectiveness: the private sector, public health authorities in local areas and the NHS. SAGE recommends that an effective contact-tracing service should trace 80% of contacts within 48 to 72 hours of someone reporting symptoms and ordering the test. Test and trace has achieved the 72-hour standard since January 2021 and the more stretching 48-hour standard since March this year.

[Baroness Walmsley (LD) [V]]

My Lords, I follow the line of questioning of the noble Lord, Lord Moynihan, and the noble Baroness, Lady Wheatcroft. According to the NAO, test and trace

“is responsible for … public compliance”—

but it has no targets for increasing the number of symptomatic people coming forward for testing, the uptake of lateral flow tests or compliance with self-isolation. All three are vital to the success of the scheme. Why are there no targets?

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

My Lords, test and trace is working to improve performance across all those areas, in particular through the community testing programme. Local directors of public health are playing a leading role in targeting testing to those parts of their local communities where it will have the greatest impact. In addition, all 314 local authorities in England have local tracing partnerships working with test and trace to improve performance in those areas.

Medicines and Medical Devices Bill

Debate between Baroness Penn and Baroness Walmsley

Committee stage & Committee: 5th sitting (Hansard) & Committee: 5th sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 11th November 2020 Grand Committee

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness for her comments about the importance of evidence. The Government and the MHRA recognise some of the difficulties around these trials. That is part of the reason that NIHR is supporting two trials and is asking people to come forward. The MHRA has also indicated that it is willing to work with those who have these products in order to support them in the process for licensing.

That has reminded me of one other point. The noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, asked me about the NHS commissioning through evaluation programme. I undertake to write to her with a response, perhaps when I update the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, on prescription numbers.

[Baroness Walmsley (LD) [V]]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that. With regard to her earlier response, if it were as easy as that, there would have been tens of thousands of NHS prescriptions in the past two years, but clearly that has not been the case. The noble Baronesses, Lady Finlay and Lady Meacher, have both made it clear why it is very difficult to conduct randomised double-blind clinical trials for these products. That is why I have suggested that, while we wait for many more than two trials, the commissioning through evaluation system could be used. I am grateful to the Minister for promising to write to me about that.

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness for her comments. I emphasise that there has been a great deal of discussion in the debate about the use of evidence. That is what will guide the Government and the MHRA in this, and that is why we are supportive of these RCTs taking place.

Medicines and Medical Devices Bill

Debate between Baroness Penn and Baroness Walmsley

Committee stage & Committee: 2nd sitting (Hansard) & Committee: 2nd sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 26th October 2020 Grand Committee

[Baroness Walmsley (LD) [V]]

My Lords, the Government take an enormous number of powers to make regulations in the Bill.

In the light of the paucity of parliamentary powers to check these, particularly prior to them coming into effect—as demonstrated by the recent Covid-19 regulations —the only way in which Parliament can influence these regulations before they are even drafted is by inserting into the Bill those things to which Ministers must have regard. That is why my noble friend Lady Sheehan seeks via Amendment 19 to insert two important elements into the Bill after the priorities of safety, availability and so-called attractiveness. I support her amendment and look forward to the Minister’s answers to her questions.

Proposed new paragraph (d) would ensure that the Government have regard to the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights of 1996, which the UK ratified 10 years later. This affirms a citizen’s basic human right to access medicines without discrimination, which means that they must be both affordable and available. We have committed ourselves to that.

Proposed new paragraph (e) reaffirms the international protections conferred by the WTO’s TRIPS Agreement. It recognises that these intellectual property rights protections have been misused and abused by big pharma; that resulted in the WTO’s Doha declaration of 2001, which reaffirmed public health safeguards for citizens of all nations. The details are in the amendment.

The amendment is absolutely crucial as the world awaits new tests, treatments and vaccines for Covid-19, as other noble Lords have mentioned. In particular, the pandemic demonstrates the importance of paragraph (e)(ii): the right to determine what constitutes a national emergency. The Government have used that.

However, the track record of big pharma does not bode well for equitable distribution of medicines, and this demonstrates the importance of the right to issue a Crown use licence. Drugs to treat cancers, HIV/AIDS, hepatitis C, cystic fibrosis and toxoplasmosis have all been withheld from citizens while Governments were held to ransom during negotiations with pharmaceutical companies. The NHS has had to ration necessary drugs because of price gouging. The threat of using a Crown use licence, and the actual issuing of one, has been helpful in such negotiations, and several countries have used the powers to great effect.

The issue of compensation, however, needs to be clarified. This section of the law has not been tested in court. Will the Minister commit the Government, therefore, to review Section 57A of the Patents Act to ensure that it does not block the use of the crown use licence provision? Countries such as Australia, Canada and Germany have revised their patents laws for this purpose, and other countries have taken action. Will the UK Government do the same? This power could be needed to ensure access to Covid vaccines and treatments, so time is of the essence. Will the Government act now and not just stick to business as usual?

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

My Lords, I suggest that this is an appropriate moment at which to pause our debate for today. I beg to move that the debate on this amendment be adjourned.

Covid-19: Economy

Debate between Baroness Penn and Baroness Walmsley

Thursday 30th April 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Penn]

I thank the noble Lord for his question. We are, of course, extremely concerned about the impact of Covid on employment. That is why the job retention scheme applies to all people on the PAYE system, including those on zero-hours contracts. We have also made the welfare system more generous during this period, including adding to the standard allowance on universal credit.

[Baroness Walmsley (LD)]

My Lords, farmers are vital to our food industry but, to make ends meet, many have diversified. This makes access to government support complex and difficult. Many are finding that the money is not reaching them, and they certainly cannot contemplate taking on more debt. This is causing hardship and they risk losing their farms. What can the Government do about this?

[Baroness Penn]

I thank the noble Baroness for her question. The Government continue to engage with farmers and the NFU to see what support we can put in place for the sector. Of course, all existing business support is available to farmers and we will look at any particular problems that they may have in accessing that support.