Financial Services and Markets Bill

Debate between Baroness Penn and Baroness Hayman

Consideration of Commons amendments
Tuesday 27th June 2023 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Secretary, HM Treasury (Baroness Penn) (Con)]

My Lords, I beg to move Motion A and, with the leave of the House, will also speak to Motions B and C. I am grateful to all noble Lords for their considered scrutiny of the remaining issues in front of us today and throughout the Bill’s passage.

I will speak first to Lords Amendments 7 and 36, and I thank the noble Baronesses, Lady Hayman and Lady Boycott, in particular, for their leadership on these issues during the passage of the Bill.

The UK is a global leader in sustainable finance. The Government’s ambition to support the growth of this important area is demonstrated by the amendment relating to sustainability disclosure requirements made on Report, and the amendments in lieu of Amendments 7 and 36 introduced during Commons consideration.

I turn first to Lords Amendment 7. The regulators have an important part to play in supporting the Government’s ambitions, which was demonstrated by the inclusion of the net-zero regulatory principle at introduction. The Government have reflected carefully on the calls to ensure that the regulatory framework also reflects the Government’s nature targets.

While I welcome the intention behind Amendment 7, the Government cannot accept this amendment because it is too broad and therefore too open to interpretation. We have therefore brought forward Amendments 7A, 7B and 7C in lieu of Amendment 7, which add the relevant and well-defined targets made under the Environment Act 2021 to the new regulatory principle. It is important to recognise that addressing climate change and nature issues is not the regulators’ primary function, which is, broadly, to advance their objectives, including to protect the integrity of the financial markets and the safety and soundness of firms within the financial system and to deliver appropriate protection for consumers. Most of the levers for reaching our net- zero and environmental targets sit outside the regulators’ remit and control.

The amendments in lieu will ensure that, when acting to advance their objectives, the regulators will be required to consider the Government’s commitments to achieve the net-zero emissions target and the environment targets. I assure noble Lords that the amendments do not weaken the requirement for the regulators to consider the Government’s net-zero target. FSMA requires the regulators to act in a way that advances their statutory objectives when carrying out their general functions. When advancing their objectives, the regulators must also have regard to the regulatory principles, which aim to promote good regulatory practice.

It is for the independent regulators to decide how best to meet the requirements placed on them in legislation when discharging their general functions. The drafting of the amendments in lieu makes this clear: the regulators are required to have regard to the regulatory principle only in so far as it is relevant to advancing their objectives. This does not change the effect of the net-zero requirement, but the Government considered that this additional language was needed, alongside expanding the principle, to make this point clear and to ensure consistency. I am confident that the Government’s approach meets the intended effect of Amendment 7, and I hope noble Lords will acknowledge it as a significant step to further support the growth of sustainable finance in the UK.

I turn to Lords Amendment 36 on deforestation-linked financing. As I set out on Report, the Government again support the intention behind this amendment. The policy considerations for tackling the financing of deforestation risk commodities are complex. We are grateful for the work of the Global Resource Initiative and in particular its report on this issue from May 2022. This emphasised the need to take a staged approach and that further exploratory work would be needed to investigate the implementation of a prohibition on the financing of the use of prohibited forest risk commodities.

The Government have therefore brought forward Amendment 36A in lieu of Amendment 36, which commits the Treasury to undertake a review to assess whether the financial regulatory framework is adequate for the purpose of eliminating the financing of illegal deforestation and to consider what changes to the regulatory framework may be appropriate. This will ensure that any intervention is scoped appropriately and that the UK moves in lockstep with our international partners to ensure the effectiveness of any regime in tackling the financing of illegal deforestation.

The Treasury will be required to undertake this review within nine months of the first relevant regulations under Schedule 17 to the Environment Act being made. This will enable the Government to reflect those regulations in the review, which is essential if we are to have a joined-up and effective approach.

As the Government set out in the updated green finance strategy, we will convene a series of round tables this year. These will form the basis of a taskforce to drive forward the work of this important review and support the development of clear conclusions. This will complement the Government’s existing commitment to explore how best the final Taskforce on Nature-related Financial Disclosures—or TNFD—framework should be incorporated into the UK policy and legislative architecture. As the GRI report acknowledged, the developing work of the TNFD is increasingly important, especially as it has now included recommendations relating to deforestation in its draft standards.

Following the review, the Government will consider what further action is appropriate to progress the goal of eliminating the financing of illegal deforestation. The Bill and the existing provisions in FSMA provide the Treasury with extensive powers, including through the regulated activities order or the designated activities regime, to bring new activities into the scope of regulation if needed.

Finally, I turn to Lords Amendment 10. As the Economic Secretary set out yesterday, and as I set out on Report, the Government cannot accept this amendment. While I acknowledge the intention behind it, I reiterate the point that financial inclusion is a complex societal issue that cannot be solved through financial regulation alone. The Government are committed to the aim of ensuring that people, regardless of their background or income, have access to useful and affordable financial products and services. The Government’s view is that the FCA’s current and ongoing initiatives around financial inclusion demonstrate that it can already effectively support the Government’s leadership on this agenda through its existing operational objectives and regulatory principles.

Parliamentary scrutiny of the introduction of the new secondary growth and competitiveness objectives for the regulators comes after two consultations on the Future Regulatory Framework Review and extensive engagement with industry and other stakeholders. It is not appropriate to amend the regulators’ objectives, which are crucial to the effective regulation of financial services in the UK, at this late stage of the Bill’s passage without due consultation. Furthermore, the FCA’s new consumer duty, which comes into force on 31 July, seeks to set a higher and clearer standard of care that firms owe to their customers, and includes a new principle requiring firms to act to deliver good outcomes for consumers. It is important that the sector is given the opportunity to embed these important new requirements before considering further action of a similar nature.

I ask noble Lords not to insist on Amendments 7, 10 and 36 and to agree with the Commons in their Amendments 7A, 7B, 7C, and 36A in lieu. I beg to move.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my interests as set out in the register, and will speak to Amendment 7A. I thank the Minister and her team for the considerable efforts that have been put in, since the Bill left this House, to find a way to respond positively to the issues raised in my original amendment, which was supported from all sides of the House. As the Minister knows, the central issue was that of providing a clear legislative basis for financial regulators to act, not only on our climate change duties, which the Government themselves recognised and included in the original Bill, but in relation to our duties relating to the natural environment.

This issue is seen as important in Parliament but also outside it. The inclusion of nature was supported both by Professor Sir Partha Dasgupta and, in a statement last week, by a group of eight leading financial firms. I am extremely pleased that the Government decided not to try to completely overturn the amendment but to introduce the amendment we have before us now, the basis of which the Minister has just explained. It recognises that the importance of climate should go alongside the importance of nature, which was not there originally.

Energy Profits Levy

Debate between Baroness Penn and Baroness Hayman

Tuesday 9th May 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

My noble friend makes an important point. Investors in these companies can come from all sources, including pension funds. It is right and proper that they think about the return they get from their investments when making those decisions.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my interests. May I take the Minister back to her fundamental argument that the electricity generator levy, which applies to renewable energy, is completely different from the energy profits levy? She has argued strongly that the latter needs the additional investment allowance to encourage investment in oil and gas, but somehow the electricity generator levy does not need that additional investment incentive. Is she absolutely sure that that is true and is she in any way concerned about the report that we may lose some offshore wind projects because of it?

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

The electricity generator levy reflects a historic approach to how we pay for our electricity. New electricity contracts are often done, for example, under the contracts for difference process, which is not subject to this levy. We have also put in place a wide range of other measures to support investment in renewables. That is why we have such a great track record and why I have every faith that we will meet our stretching targets on decarbonisation in future.

VAT: Building Repairs and Maintenance

Debate between Baroness Penn and Baroness Hayman

Wednesday 19th April 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

I can confirm to the noble Baroness that we already have a reduced rate of VAT in place for energy-efficiency installations. She will also be aware that we are extending the available support through a new energy company obligation, the energy-efficient Great British insulation scheme. It is estimated that the scheme will make around 300,000 homes more energy efficient, primarily through the installation of insulation measures, reducing household bills by around £300 to £400 on average per year and, crucially, reducing emissions.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, I draw the House’s attention to my interests, as set out in the register. Is not the noble Lord, Lord Swire, absolutely right on this point: we have underestimated the effects on the Government’s statutory net-zero targets of the demolition of existing buildings and not taken into account the embodied carbon that occurs? The noble Baroness referred to the exemption from VAT on energy-saving materials, but that does not go across the board at the moment. The announcement in the Budget of a consultation on further extension of it was welcome, but I wonder if she can tell me when the Government expect some results from that consultation.

UK Infrastructure Bank Bill [HL]

Debate between Baroness Penn and Baroness Hayman

Consideration of Commons amendments
Tuesday 14th March 2023 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Secretary, HM Treasury (Baroness Penn) (Con)]

My Lords, with the leave of the House, I shall speak also to the other amendments and that in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman.

I start with Commons Amendment 2. As was noted in the other place, the Government agree that the bank will make it a stipulation that any investment into the water sector must be in line with the company having an appropriate plan and making sufficient progress against that plan to deal with sewage discharges. However, I want to make it clear that in this circumstance the word “preventing” is aimed principally at preventing harmful discharges and does not mean eliminating all discharges. I want to make this distinction in the House because I do not want the bank to be prevented by fear of legal action from investing in water companies which have a plan in place to meet their obligations.

I reassure the House that the Government are already taking major steps to improve water quality. We have announced legally binding targets on water quality under the Environment Act and ambitious interim targets to deliver these in our environmental improvement plan.

This Government have also implemented the strictest ever targets to crack down on poor water company performance. On sewage spills, our storm overflows plan requires companies to deliver the largest ever environmental infrastructure investment—£56 billion over 25 years. Where water companies are found to have broken the law and face fines for this behaviour, this Government have committed to reinvest those fines directly back into schemes to improve our water environment.

Commons Amendment 3 removes the Lords amendment to include nature-based solutions and the circular economy in the definition of infrastructure. As noble Lords will recall, we debated this issue extensively in this House and it came up frequently in the Commons. At the time, I noted that nature-based solutions were already included under the inclusive definition of infrastructure and, as such, we did not think it necessary to add it explicitly in the Bill. The Government have reflected on the debate and recognise the strength of feeling on the matter and, as such, think the amendment from the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, strikes a careful balance of making it clear that nature-based solutions are within the bank’s remit without being overly prescriptive.

The Government agree with the removal of the circular economy from the definition. We do not think including the circular economy—which is an imprecise term—in the definition of infrastructure would be helpful for the bank. However, I thank all noble Lords, and in particular the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, for raising this issue during the passage of the Bill. We reassure them that the circular economy is an incredibly important principle and will be key as we transition to a more sustainable economy in a number of sectors. While we do not wish to expand the scope of the bank, I reassure the noble Lord that several of the areas highlighted in the debate on the circular economy are covered within its existing remit and objectives; for example, nature-based solutions, waste and energy efficiency, as was clarified in an earlier amendment to the Bill. I therefore anticipate that the bank will invest in and be a key proponent of a circular economy wherever it is in line with the overall objectives.

Commons Amendment 4 removes subsection (6) from Clause 2 of the Bill. The subsection included the wording “have regard to”, but this would still have had a significant impact on the bank. For example, on improving jobs, we understand the intention of the amendment and do not disagree with it as a general principle. However, we are concerned that there may be consequences if the principle were to be applied across the board as a statutory requirement in relation to every investment proposal. It could lead to the bank being overly cautious for fear of legal challenge.

The second part of this subsection, on reducing regional inequality, is also of concern. We do not want the bank to be under a statutory duty to consider regional disparities in the same way in relation to every investment proposal that comes before it. The strategic steer makes it clear that the bank must focus on geographic inequalities. However, this is best done on a portfolio basis rather than investment by investment, which would be required by the proposed amendment.

Although the Government agree with the Commons amendment, we recognise the concern of the House, and I pay tribute to the work of the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, on this matter. I recommit to this House that after the Bill achieves Royal Assent the Government will amend the bank’s framework document to provide clarity on the role on the bank in levelling up the United Kingdom. We will include under the operating principles the wording:

“The bank will also address the spatial disparities across and within UK regions.”


This is in addition to the wording already in the framework document under its second objective:

“to support regional and local economic growth through better connectedness, opportunities for new jobs and higher levels of productivity”.

Commons Amendments 5, 6, and 9 concern provisions to add a duty to consult relevant Ministers in the devolved Administrations on the use of delegated legislative powers in the Bill, including the power to amend the bank’s activities or the definition of “infrastructure”, and to issue the strategic steer. Commons Amendment 7 is related and sets out a requirement for UKIB’s board to appoint one or more directors to be responsible for ensuring that the interests of the devolved Administrations are considered in the board’s decision-making. These amendments have come as a direct result of positive engagement we have had with the devolved Administrations, and I am pleased to say we have received legislative consent Motions from the Welsh and Scottish legislatures. Unfortunately, given that the Executive have not formed, it was not possible to get a legislative consent Motion from the Northern Ireland Assembly.

Given we are on the subject of the board of directors, I know that the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, was interested in whether the bank would appoint a workers’ representative to the board. I reassure him that the bank is abiding with the requirements of the corporate governance code and has appointed a non-executive director, Marianne Økland, to facilitate engagement with the workforce.

Commons Amendment 8 reduces the time period for statutory reviews of the bank following the first such review from seven to five years. This balance reflects the fact that we need to allow a nascent institution time to embed and fully establish itself in the market, which is why the first review will take place after seven years. However, subsequent statutory reviews will take place every five years to ensure proper scrutiny of the bank’s performance.

Commons Amendments 1 and 10 are of a technical nature and broaden the definition of “public authority” in relation to the bank’s capacity to lend. The drafting as is broadly meets the policy aims and would allow the bank to lend to local authorities and the Northern Ireland Executive. However, given that primary legislation can be something of a blunt instrument, we do not want inadvertently and by implication to preclude the bank from lending to other public authorities, such as any public bodies created by local authorities or government departments in future.

Finally, as is standard for a Bill that starts in the Lords and concerns matters of public finance, a privilege amendment was passed. Commons Amendment 11 removed this.

The Government have listened to concerns in both Houses and have made changes to improve the Bill. I look forward to the debate and hope that noble Lords will accept these amendments. I beg to move.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

I declare my interest as co-chair of Peers for the Planet and rise to speak to my Motion 3A, which as the Minister said would reintroduce nature-based solutions into the definition of infrastructure in which the UK Infrastructure Bank may invest.

We had some very helpful conversations after Report and the debates in the other place, and I think we have now reached a highly satisfactory position on this amendment, in no small part due to the Minister’s customary constructive approach to the debates that have taken place in this House, for which I am very grateful.

Of course, the original amendment included the “circular economy”, and I know that there will be some disappointment that that is not included now, but the bank’s strategy is reassuring on that issue. Anyone who listened to the item on the “Today” programme this morning about data centres using the heat they normally have to dispose of to heat up the water in local swimming pools will have heard a lovely example of how we need to put those sorts of issues together.

I thank all the Members of this House who have taken part in the debates, and in particular those who signed the various iterations of my amendment, including the noble Lord, Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth, the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Whitchurch, and the noble Lord, Lord Teverson. This amendment has had significant cross-party support because of the increased recognition that nature-based solutions have a critical role to play in the fulfilment of the bank’s objectives. The Chancellor’s strategic steer in 2022 encouraged the bank to

“explore early opportunities in nature-based solutions”

and aim to have

“a positive impact on the development of the market”.

The bank has since published a discussion paper setting out its initial thinking on how it can invest in and support the growth of natural capital markets, and I look forward to the results of this consultation.

The discussion paper clearly explains the importance of natural capital as a form of infrastructure and the vital contributions it makes to our society and economy, often in ways which are more cost-effective to the taxpayer. Carbon removals through creating and restoring woodlands, wetlands and peatlands, flood mitigation measures, providing “clean and reliable” water supplies, underpinning our food security and bolstering our resilience to climate change: these constitute numerous examples of how we can deploy nature-based solutions to support our infrastructure and provide social, economic and environmental benefits. There is also an ever-increasing recognition of the key role that nature can play in solving climate change, nature being our biggest asset with which to fight it. Nature-based solutions also provide significant co-benefits, such as jobs and good health and well-being outcomes, with considerable economic advantages.

I welcome that the UK is leading on the Taskforce on Nature-related Financial Disclosures, but there is an average $700 billion funding gap for protecting and restoring nature globally, and evidence that more needs to be done to help market participants mainstream and scale these products alongside growing investor demand. This simple addition to the definition of infrastructure in the Bill sends a strong signal to the markets that the UK recognises this and the Government are serious about taking action to help build and develop this nascent market. It also provides certainty to the bank, which recognises that it has a role in developing capacity towards a pipeline of investable projects and is poised to act. It will encourage others to do the same and further develop the UK finance sector’s position as a leader in this important emerging new market.

As I said, I am very grateful to the Minister and her officials for the support they have given and the resolution that I think we have reached.

Energy Profits Levy

Debate between Baroness Penn and Baroness Hayman

Tuesday 7th February 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

I just point out to the noble Lord that we have introduced the energy profits levy. That charges tax at a headline rate of 75% on those companies, and we expect to raise up to £80 billion in taxes from the North Sea overall in coming years.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, I draw attention to my registered interests. The Minister spoke in her reply about the need to encourage investment, so could she look carefully at the disparity between the energy profits levy, which gives very generous investment allowances to oil and gas companies, and the electricity generator levy, which has no investment allowance at all for clean energy generators? The Environmental Audit Committee argued in its report in December for a level playing field. Will the Government act on that recommendation?

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

The noble Baroness will know that the tax regimes for the two sectors are quite different. Oil and gas already has a specific tax regime that is higher than for electricity generators, which pay normal levels of corporation tax. This levy is on top of that for their profits related to the price for gas, which were unforeseen when they were making their investments. I agree that we need more support for investment in renewables. The Government have committed £30 billion towards our domestic green industrial revolution over the coming years.

UK Green Taxonomy

Debate between Baroness Penn and Baroness Hayman

Thursday 3rd November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

The Government are taking a number of steps. The FCA, for example, has consulted on a sustainable investment-labelling scheme so that, when consumers and investors are told that they are investing sustainably, they have better information to show that that is based on an objective assessment of those investments.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, a year ago, the Prime Minister, then the Chancellor, made the commitment at COP 26 that the UK will be

“the world’s first net zero aligned financial centre”.

Does the Minister—whom I welcome back to the Front Bench—agree that, to achieve that, we need a robust and respected taxonomy for green investment? Does she also agree that this is an increasingly competitive area, with other countries having exactly the same objective? Does she accept the need for urgency in this area?

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

I agree that the green taxonomy is an essential part of being a leader in green finance. The UK has led the way: we were the first country to lay regulations to make reporting mandatory under the TCFD framework and firms listed on the London Stock Exchange have the highest sustainability disclosure rate of any global financial centre. But, if we want to continue that leadership, we need to continue to make progress. We have laid out a number of future steps under our road map. I accept that some have been delayed, and it is for us to continue to work to make better progress, to ensure that we continue to lead in this area.

UK Infrastructure Bank Bill [HL]

Debate between Baroness Penn and Baroness Hayman

Report stage
Monday 4th July 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

My Lords, we start Report with a topic that has already been central to our discussion of the UK Infrastructure Bank: its role in investing in nature and the environment. I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, and all noble Lords who have engaged with the Government on this important topic.

I turn first to Amendments 1 and 3, in the names of the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, and the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, which seek to add natural capital, biodiversity, wider environmental targets and climate adaptation to the bank’s climate change objective. As we discussed in Committee, nature-based solutions and projects to support climate adaptation are already within scope for the bank. Those who attended the briefing with the bank’s chief executive and chair last Tuesday will have heard that the bank is keen to explore this area. We have given thorough consideration to the question of adding to the bank’s objectives through our environmental review on whether nature-based solutions should be in the objectives. We engaged with a wide range of stakeholders during this review, from think tanks to investors, and we heard from a majority of them that they felt that there was already significant scope for intervention in nature-based solutions within the bank’s existing mandate without adding a third objective.

In considering this question it is important to acknowledge that the bank already has two stretching and broad objectives that are the outcome of significant work, starting from the recommendations of the National Infrastructure Commission and the national infrastructure strategy. Ultimately, the bank is an infrastructure bank, so it should invest in nature as a means of achieving its objectives and to enhance the UK’s infrastructure. The Chancellor made this clear to the bank when he sent it a strategic steer in March this year. The bank’s strategic plan sets out that it will explore opportunities to invest in nature and highlights opportunities to invest in water-related projects, as the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, mentioned.

While the bank’s scope to invest in nature is already significant, it is important to note that this is not the only, or indeed primary, government intervention to support the market for natural capital projects. I will mention just a few areas. To provide an accredited route for income for nature projects, the Government are backing the maturation of the woodland carbon code and peatland code through the nature for climate fund and woodland carbon guarantee. To create demand for nature projects, we are implementing regulation to grow the market—for example, through mandating biodiversity net gain for development. The nature recovery Green Paper also sets out plans in this area, specifically on ensuring that environmental regulation and regulators, including Natural England, the Environment Agency and Ofwat, are equipped to support the uptake of nature-based solutions and more strategic, landscape-scale approaches to environmental protection and enhancement by industry. To help the market mature from grant support to a more commercial basis, Defra has established the natural environment investment readiness fund of up to £10 million, which will provide grants of up to £100,000 to environmental groups, local authorities, businesses and other organisations to help them to develop nature projects in England to a point where they can attract private investment. Defra is also initiating the big nature impact fund, a blended finance vehicle designed to use public concessionary capital to attract private capital into the fund. The fund will invest in a portfolio of natural capital projects that can generate revenue from ecosystem services to provide a return on investment. These initiatives will support the growth and commercialisation of the natural capital market.

I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, for her support for the government amendment in my name. I again reassure noble Lords that it was always the Government’s intention that the bank could invest in projects to increase energy efficiency—for example, the retrofitting of homes. In fact, this forms a key aspect of the bank’s strategic plan. However, recognising the points raised in debate on this, I have tabled this amendment to add “energy efficiency” to the non-exhaustive definition of infrastructure in Clause 2 to ensure that it is explicit that the bank can invest in projects to increase energy efficiency.

Amendments 6A, 7, 9, 10 and 11 all seek to make further changes to the definition of infrastructure in the Bill. Amendments 6A and 7 seek to add “nature-based solutions” to the definition of infrastructure. As noble Lords have already heard, the Government are confident and, through our review of the bank’s environmental objectives have sought third-party views to ensure, that the definition we have included covers nature-based solutions. The bank’s strategic plan also makes clear its commitment to supporting the development of a circular economy.

On Amendment 9 in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, I hope she has received the letter from John Flint, the bank’s CEO, on this issue. As highlighted in the bank’s strategic plan, we do not anticipate the bank investing much in roads. However, it is important that it has the flexibility to do so under the right circumstances. The bank may, for example, consider supporting local authorities in road upgrades that feature as part of their wider transport infrastructure and transport decarbonisation plans. For example, the bank has already financed the West Midlands Combined Authority’s sprint bus programme, which includes road adaptations such as priority signalling, redesign of junctions and additional bus lanes.

I take this opportunity to comment on the bank’s investment in gas, which the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, asked about. The bank will not lend or provide other support to projects involving extraction, production, transportation or refining of crude oil, natural gas or thermal coal, with very limited exemptions. These exemptions include projects improving efficiency, health and safety and environmental standards, without substantially increasing the lifetime of assets, for carbon capture and storage or carbon capture, usage and storage where projects will significantly reduce emissions over the lifetime of the asset, or those supporting the decommissioning of existing fossil fuel assets. The bank will not support any fossil fuel-fired power plants unless this is part of an integrated natural gas-fuelled CCS or CCUS generation asset.

Finally, I come to Amendments 10 and 11 tabled by my noble friend Lord Holmes and the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Whitchurch. This is a difficult area to tackle, so let me set out how the bank considered the wider environment within its policy framework. First, there are investments which, while addressing climate change or growth, can help to improve the environment. Separately, there is a policy framework considering whether and the extent to which the bank’s investments impact environmental factors beyond climate change. With this in mind, I shall set out how the objectives of the bank relate to pollution.

The bank’s objectives are tackling climate change and regional and local economic growth, but not wider pollution. The bank can invest in projects that tackle pollution, but only so long as they also help to achieve its core objectives of tackling climate change or regional and local economic growth. Investments directly into infrastructure to tackle other pollutants that can impact clean air will already be broadly covered by the existing definition of infrastructure and the objectives in the Bill. For example, tyres would fall under transport, in the same way that water pollution is covered by water, and tackling those pollutants is in scope as long as that investment is also tackling climate change and/or facilitating regional and local economic growth. As we have discussed, there are likely to be large numbers of synergies in this area.

I know that there has been interest from Peers in broadening the bank’s definition of infrastructure to ensure that the bank takes into account the wider environmental impacts, beyond climate change, of its investment decisions. Widening the definition of infrastructure in this way is not the best way to achieve this. Instead, the way that wider environmental impacts are dealt with is via the bank’s environmental, social resilience and governance policy. The ESRG policy and framework that the bank is developing will be used to screen projects and provide transparency on its portfolio. Part of this policy will involve collecting data from each investment to meet reporting standards, such as the forthcoming sustainability disclosure requirements, which will include green taxonomy reporting. The objectives of the green taxonomy include pollution prevention and control, which the bank will need to report on for its investments.

More broadly, infrastructure projects are subject to a range of environmental regulations appropriate to their specific type and circumstances. It would not add value to apply these directly to the bank when they already bind the project developers directly. Defra is consulting on new legal targets for air quality, water, waste, and biodiversity, which the Government are required to set under the Environment Act by October this year and which noble Lords will be well aware of.

I hope, therefore, I have provided sufficient reassurance for the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, to withdraw her Amendment 1 and for other noble Lords not to move the other amendments in this group when they are reached.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, I am extremely grateful to all noble Lords who have spoken in this debate. As in Committee, we saw support from all around the House. Unfortunately, the Minister has not completely reassured me. I am grateful for her reassurance on gas and understand the reason for including roads, with caveats, in the infrastructure. I sort of understand not wanting to change the objectives, because of the process she described with consultation and wanting to keep clarity for the two objectives.

What I cannot understand is refusing to include the circular economy and nature-based solutions in the infrastructure. I am afraid her arguments are undermined by the Government’s actions. They keep roads in there even though they need to be caveated and we need reassurances that they will not be a mainstream activity of the bank. However, they tell us that they are absolutely committed to making these an activity for the bank. We know that the Treasury, departments and everyone who talks about these issues understands the connection between nature-based solutions and climate change. They understand that we need to tackle these areas; there is no difference between us. These are not tablets of stone, unlike the objectives—and the Government are seeking the leave of the House to change the objectives on energy efficiency. If they can do it for energy efficiency, why cannot they do it for nature-based solutions and the circular economy?

I rest my case on that issue and will return to it when we come to Amendment 6A. I beg leave to withdraw Amendment 1.

Investments: Environmental, Social and Governance Criteria

Debate between Baroness Penn and Baroness Hayman

Wednesday 2nd March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

My Lords, the Government set up a specific panel to look at those very questions, and I cannot pre-empt the outcome of its work.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my interests as set out in the register. I understand that the noble Baroness cannot prejudge what the panel will say on the green taxonomy. However, does she agree that it is essential, if that taxonomy is to be useful both in this country and internationally, that it is both science- based and free of vested interests?

Greenhouse Gas Emissions: Tax Strategy

Debate between Baroness Penn and Baroness Hayman

Tuesday 6th July 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

I absolutely agree with my noble friend’s point. That is why, last July, the Government published their 10-year vision for delivering an effective and modern tax system—the tax administration strategy. If any noble Lords want to read that exciting document, it is on GOV.UK. The strategy includes an extension to making tax digital, intended as the first phase of a modern, digital tax service.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my interest as co-chair of Peers for the Planet. I welcome the Minister’s remarks about thinking more strategically on tax issues. The recent Climate Change Committee report recommended a net-zero test for every government policy, and the recent Public Accounts Committee report on environmental tax measures suggested that, from the next Budget, Her Majesty’s Treasury should both assess the environmental impact of every tax change considered and publish the expected environmental impact for each tax measure in the Budget. Will the Government accept those two recommendations?

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

My Lords, the Government will respond to the Climate Change Committee’s report by October, as they are obliged to. They have, in fact, already responded to the PAC recommendations. While the Government have taken on a number of those recommendations, they disagreed with that specific one. We recognise the importance of considering the impact of tax on environmental measures and make those assessments where relevant. However, we think that the recommendation may constrain the Government and place undue burdens. For example, in looking at income tax thresholds or national insurance tax rates, those environmental considerations would not be proportionate or relevant.

Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (All Tiers) (England) Regulations 2020

Debate between Baroness Penn and Baroness Hayman

Tuesday 1st December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayman (CB) [V]]

My Lords, first, I apologise to the Minister because IT problems meant that I could not hear some of his introductory speech. What I did hear, earlier this afternoon, was some of the debate in another place on these regulations. No one listening could be left in doubt about the divisiveness of the proposals before us today, especially in relation to boundaries for the new tiers. These have created a deep sense of injustice and division between regions, areas and communities within regions.

For a variety of understandable reasons, the Government abandoned the clarity and sense of the whole nation being subject to the same constraints that we have had since early November. However, they have patently failed to convince people that the variants in restrictions are properly tailored and appropriate to the situations in the communities in which they live and with which they identify. A lack of respect for local leadership, knowledge and capacity has, I fear, been a recurring feature of the response to Covid, particularly in relation to test, trace and isolate. We must not make the same mistakes when it comes to the rollout of vaccinations.

When the tiers are reviewed on 16 December, I would urge a review of the basis of the boundaries so that they are seen to be more justifiable and fairer, which would engender better compliance. Data is available at the district and borough level on incidents, hospital admissions and all the issues that the Government say they will take into account. This data should be used to produce boundaries based much more on social geography and local conditions than on administrative areas. I recognise that, even if there is greater granularity and that reduces the sense of injustice, it will not eliminate it. The Government need fundamentally to improve the information and communication that they present.

For example, as others have said, the impact statement for today’s debate hardly engenders confidence in the very difficult, nuanced judgments the Minister and his colleagues are making, although I have huge sympathy for them. They can afford to be honest with the population. At the beginning of this pandemic, maybe there were many people who thought there would be an answer—that if they followed “The Science”, we would know what to do. We know that is not the case. We know that we must weigh up a number of factors and balance a number of different harms to try to find the least bad solutions to working our way through this. It is a complex and contested field, and the public are grown up enough to understand that.

I urge that in assessing what boundaries we use and the immediate effects on health—the dangers of Covid and how we protect people from it, as against the longer-term and indirect effects on health and well-being from unemployment and lack of access to normal health services—we respect individuals in our society enough to be frank about how those judgments are made and assessed.

Before I finish, I will say two things. First, most people want to do the right thing; they want to protect themselves and those they love. The Government need to help us do that. They need to empower us with access to testing, by ensuring that the test, trace and isolate systems are effective and working, and by making sure that people do not suffer from being good citizens and obeying what they are asked to do if they have been in contact with others.

Lastly, I was struck by what Dame Sally Davies said yesterday. We ask ourselves all the time why we have seen so many deaths and so much difficulty in coping with this as a country. She pinpointed the underlying public health issues this country faces: deprivation, obesity, dependence on alcohol and the issues that lead to social disadvantage and all that bundle of disadvantages that create ill health and vulnerability. When we review what has happened, I hope we will recognise social injustice as an underlying cause. [Inaudible.] This is not just about PPE but about reversing some of the social injustices in our society.

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

My Lords, now is a good moment to remind speakers of the time limit for this debate, which is six minutes for Back-Bench contributions.

Net Zero Review

Debate between Baroness Penn and Baroness Hayman

Thursday 1st October 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper. I draw attention to my interests as set out in the register.

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

My Lords, the net-zero review will cover how the transition to net zero will be funded and assess options for where the costs will fall. This involves analysing the range of options for how households, businesses and the taxpayer could contribute to the costs of transition, as well as maximising opportunities for economic growth as we transition to a green economy. We will need to evaluate the trade-offs between costs, competitiveness, effects on consumers and impacts on taxpayers.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

I am grateful to the Minister for that reply, and for her recognition that costs are not the only issue to be taken into account. The Covid crisis demonstrates to us every day the need to assess the effects of individual policies in the round, not simply against a single metric. So does the Minister agree that the magnitude of the threats from unrestrained climate change means that when we assess the cost of measures to meet our net-zero target, we need also to take into account the benefits to health and employment, and to sustainable economic recovery? Could we not set an example of good practice in overall impact assessment of climate measures as part of our preparations for COP 26 next year?

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

The noble Baroness is absolutely right to say that we need to look at these issues in the round. She referred to the impact of the Covid crisis, and to our aims for a green recovery. The Government have put huge emphasis on a green recovery, because not only will that help us meet our net-zero target in the longer term, but it has been shown that, in the shorter term, such policies bring extra economic benefit in their own right—and that is the exact approach the Government are taking.