Business and Planning Bill

Baroness Penn Excerpts

Committee stage & Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard) & Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 13th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark]

My Lords, this group contains two amendments: Amendment 42, in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Anelay of St Johns, and the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty, and Amendment 78, in my name. These probing amendments seek to highlight wider issues surrounding support for the hospitality sector. As we heard in the debate, the industry desperately needs government backing to see it through the coming months, which is why this House is supporting the Bill and why it is seeking improvements to make it even better.

I welcome Amendment 42 and entirely agree with the comments of the noble Baroness and the noble Earl. The amendment introduces the requirement for a review of support. Given that these are labour-intensive businesses, we should bear in mind that there is an enormous unemployment risk if businesses in this sector collapse.

Amendment 78 in my name aims to start a debate on two issues plaguing the hospitality sector, the first of which is lack of consumer confidence. Many people are still cautious about visiting hospitality venues, and the Government must play an active role in encouraging customers to return safely. The second issue is rent disputes. One large pub chain told us that disputes between tenanted pubs and their owners are still unresolved and there is no effective mechanism to fix this. I hope the Government can explain how they will encourage consumer confidence to help people return to pubs.

Obviously, this is a probing amendment that highlights these issues and seeks a government response regarding how they see these points being resolved in a satisfactory way that keeps businesses open, staff working safely and customers coming through the doors, reassured that they can enjoy themselves and spend money safely. I look forward to the Minister’s response.

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend Lady Anelay, the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty, and the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, for their amendments. Through her amendment, my noble friend Lady Anelay raised the question of how the Government will review its measures to support the hospitality and tourism sector, and the parliamentary scrutiny of those measures. She also said that the date she had chosen for that review was the end of January. However, although some of the Government’s measures will have come to an end by then, because we are going through different phases in our response to coronavirus, many will be ongoing, not least some in the Bill such as pavement licensing and those that allow for a second summer of support, should we still be in a world of social distancing by then.

The coronavirus job retention scheme bonus will be paid from the end of January, so while we will have seen the end of the summer and potentially a more tricky autumn and winter period for the hospitality and tourism industry, we will only be part of the way through the Government’s response to the pandemic, and may be in a new phase of it.

There will be measures in place on 31 January and beyond to support the sector. Many noble Lords have spoken of the importance of the sector and how particularly hard hit it is. That is why measures are in place to support it—not only those in the Bill but the business grants that have been given to the retail, hospitality and leisure sectors, the business rates holidays now in place and the Bounce Back Loan Scheme grant. That grant is an example of our looking back at how these measures have worked after the event, and of our constantly reviewing and adapting our policy response. The bounce-back loans were a response to smaller businesses struggling to get access to the finance they need, many of which are in the hospitality and tourism sector.

Turning to the support we have provided for the tourism and hospitality sector, there is a £1.3 million destination management organisation resilience fund to support local tourism organisations in England, and the £10 million kick-starting tourism package, which gives small businesses and tourist destinations grants of up to £5,000 to help them adapt their business following Covid. The noble Lord, Lord Kennedy of Southwark, mentioned giving people confidence to go out and enjoy our tourist destinations; the kick-starting tourism package and allowing people to become more Covid-secure will contribute to that. We also have an “enjoy summer safely” campaign to market all the attractions available for people to enjoy in a safe and Covid-secure way.

I would also like to reassure the House this is not the end of the story. The DDCMS will continue to engage with stakeholders, including through the Cultural Renewal Taskforce and the Visitor Economy Working Group, to assess how we can effectively support tourism’s recovery across the UK.

I turn now to Amendment 78, which addresses various aspects of data protection. The Government publish relevant data on the Covid business lending schemes weekly, including the number of applications received and the number and value of facilities approved. Since 11 June we have been publishing monthly data on the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme, broken down by employer size, sector and geography. That has allowed us to design measures more targeted at those that are struggling. For example, the Job Retention Bonus, set at a flat rate, will benefit those in the lower paid jobs and lower paid sectors more, because it will act as a greater incentive in those sectors. Furthermore, Visit England publishes a great deal of research, including regular surveys on visitor attractions, accommodation occupancy, day visits and Great Britain tourism. The ONS publishes fortnightly surveys on the business impacts of coronavirus which include sector-specific information. We will continue to engage with the sectors in the ways I have already mentioned.

The noble Baroness, Lady Uddin, mentioned some of the further measures announced last week that we have put in place to support the hospitality sector, including the “eat out to help out” scheme. Again, that discount is not just a financial incentive; it is about getting people out there to see that it is safe and secure to be out and about.

The noble Lord, Lord Kennedy of Southwark, raised the issue of premises that cannot afford to pay their rent because of Covid-19. They are currently protected from eviction. That protection was extended once already to the end of September 2020 and there is the option to extend it further if necessary.

The Government also published a code of practice for the commercial property sector. This will facilitate discussions during the moratorium over rent arrears and future payments between landlords and tenants to ensure best practice across the sector.

For the reasons I have set out, I hope my noble friend Lady Anelay and the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty, will be able to withdraw their Amendment and that the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, will not move his Amendment 78 when it is reached.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns [V]]

My Lords, first, I would like to thank all those who have spoken in this relatively short debate, especially, of course, the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty, for signing up to the amendment. I would normally refer to the contributions of all speakers, but I am keenly aware that certain groups of amendments have yet to be considered. I will therefore simply say a few words of thanks to my noble friend the Minister. I am grateful to her for recognising that although the measures in this Bill are intended for the most part to be temporary, it is set against a much wider background of a longer period in which the Government will continue to consider the necessary policies. They must consider the outcome of the policies to ameliorate the impact of Covid-19 now, and consider the longer-term impact—not only if there is a second spike—going forward. I particularly welcomed her saying—I paraphrase—that DCMS would continue to engage with stakeholders in the hospitality industry.

My only request for the Government is to consider that the hospitality industry’s investment in preparation for its major summer season next year—which will need to be really good to recover from this—will start early in the year. It will therefore be important for the Government to consider engaging early in the new year to be able to give some confidence to those in the hospitality industry that it is worth them continuing to invest, at what for them will be a very difficult time to do so. In the meantime, I beg leave to withdraw Amendment 42.

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[Lord Stevenson of Balmacara (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I have added my name to Amendments 46 and 47, moved and spoken to respectively by the noble Baroness, Lady Bowles of Berkhamsted, and I support the points that she has made. I also welcome the expert contributions from the noble Baroness, Lady Altmann, the noble Lord, Lord German, and the noble Baroness, Lady Kramer.

The Consumer Credit Act 1974 has long been criticised because of its extensive, complex information disclosure requirements. These are a problem in their own right but they can make it problematic for lenders to be flexible in cases where they might, for example, wish to offer forbearance to consumers experiencing difficulties in making repayments or to those suffering from unmanageable personal debts, as many do. Clearly, if small businesses are being affected by Covid-19 issues, it makes sense to ensure that their access to bounce-back loans is not hampered by requests for unnecessary evidence and detail or by extensive time delays in processing such data.

However, as the Explanatory Notes make clear, SI 2020/480 changed the rules for small loans to individuals and small partnerships so that they are no longer regulated credit agreements. However, as the noble Baroness, Lady Bowles, pointed out, the SI does not affect Sections 140A to 140C of the Consumer Credit Act 1974—the so-called unfair relationship provisions. The problem identified by the noble Baroness seems to be important. In a laudable attempt to simplify the processes, the Government might, perhaps inadvertently, have removed the statutory underpinning of Sections 140A to 140C, which, for example, through the courts protect borrowers from any subsequent attempts by lenders to act unfairly. That can often be the case, as we have heard this evening.

I believe that this issue might need to be reviewed separately once we are through the pandemic. Perhaps when she comes to respond, the Minister will agree that it needs further work. I hope that she will also be able to reassure us that our concerns are unfounded. I have my doubts but am willing to be convinced. The change in law needs to be securely attached only to bounce-back loans and the Covid-19 pandemic. We also need to know that the application of this disregard is proportionate and appropriate to lenders.

Turning to Amendment 48 in my name, I am grateful for the support of my noble friend Lady Uddin and the noble Baroness, Lady Kramer. I hope that the Minister recognises that the amendment covers ground raised in the powerful comments made at Second Reading by the noble Earl, Lord Shrewsbury, who shared his personal experience of the wide variability of responsiveness by the individual banks and lending institutions authorised by the British Business Bank to issue bounce-back loans.

My amendment calls for regular reports. I appreciate that there are confidentiality issues here, but this is also about transparency. If a private company such as MoneySavingExpert can do a survey which reveals that a substantial number of bounce-back applicants suffer delays, rejections and unrelated credit checks, surely the Government can do better. It is true that the MSE report is based on a sample, albeit a large one, but it shows that consumers have had variable responses from the major banks, and some of the smaller challenger banks had very high rejection rates. The transparency which the amendment looks for may improve that situation. I hope that the Minister can offer some movement on this issue, which would help with the task of getting bounce-back loans out to those who can use them. She said in her response to an earlier group of amendments that the Government were constantly reviewing and improving the Bounce Back Loan Scheme. I hope that she recognises that to do that without the sort of information that my amendment proposes might be otiose.

[Baroness Penn]

I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Bowles, my noble friend Lady Altmann and the noble Lords, Lord Stevenson and Lord German, for tabling these amendments.

On Amendments 46 and 47, the noble Baroness, Lady Bowles, made important points around the ongoing treatment of borrowers by lenders under the bounce-back loan scheme. My noble friend Lady Altmann and others referred to memories of previous unscrupulous practices by lenders. It is important to acknowledge the significant changes that the industry has been subject to over the past decade. All the major lenders have now signed up to the Lending Standards Board’s standards of lending practice, ensuring that banks treat their customers fairly and responsibly. The Financial Conduct Authority can now take enforcement action against individuals through the senior managers and certification regime and the new conduct rules, which apply to all employees of those firms and not just to senior managers.

I assure the noble Baroness, Lady Bowles, and all noble Lords who have spoken on the amendment that, while the Bill removes bounce-back loans from the Consumer Credit Act provisions, it does not remove protections from borrowers under the scheme. Under the terms of the guarantee agreement entered into by lenders with the British Business Bank that backs the bounce-back loans, lenders must provide clear information to borrowers before the credit agreement is entered into and during the lifetime of the loan. Lenders must make it clear to borrowers that the loans are not subject to the usual protections under the Consumer Credit Act. However, under the agreement entered into by lenders with the British Business Bank for the guarantee, there are other protections.

Where a borrower encounters financial difficulty, lenders must provide information on assistance available, including sources of free, independent advice. Where a borrower misses payments under the scheme, the lender will give them a reasonable period to remedy any breach of the agreement and will not treat that breach as a default if it is remedied within that period. Finally, lenders must not require borrowers to pay any lender-levied fees of any description, including on default, or any default interest. If a borrower defaults on the loan, the guarantee agreement prevents their primary residence and primary vehicle forming part of the debt recovery. Should a lender not comply with these terms, they risk not being able to call on the guarantee. This provides a strong incentive for lenders to treat borrowers fairly.

Furthermore, the Government have retained Financial Conduct Authority oversight for debt collection, meaning that lenders must comply with the Financial Conduct Authority rules on arrears, default and recovery. Recovery procedures must also comply with the Lending Standards Board’s standards of lending practice. As the noble Baroness, Lady Bowles, mentioned, the Government are working with accredited lenders under the scheme to ensure that they understand the requirements on collections and recoveries for the loans. I will write to her on whether the result of those discussions will be published.

Finally, the jurisdiction of the Financial Ombudsman Service has been maintained for bounce-back loans, meaning that eligible borrowers are able to access this convenient and effective means of resolving disputes with their lender without having to go to court.