Data (Use and Access) Bill [HL]

Baroness Owen of Alderley Edge Excerpts

Report stage
Tuesday 28th January 2025 Lords Chamber

With the caveat that, having moved Amendment 56A, I will in due course withdraw it, I beg to move.

[Baroness Owen of Alderley Edge (Con)]

My Lords, I shall speak to Amendments 69, 70 and 72. I declare my interest as a guest of Google at its Future Forum and AI policy conference. I will also speak to government Amendments 56A, 74A and 77. I am grateful to the Government—particularly the Ministers, the noble Lord, Lord Ponsonby, and Sarah Sackman, who I know want to do the right thing by victim survivors—for taking the time to meet me and other noble Lords from across this House, and for the movement they have made in not pressing their own amendment.

I am so grateful for the offer to work together to put victim survivor experience at the heart of our legislation. As I have always advocated, a consent-based approach is the only approach that shows that the violation of a woman’s consent through the non-consensual creation of sexually explicit images and films is an act of abuse, regardless of a person’s motivation.

I am pleased that the Government have finally conceded that a woman’s consent is enough and, in doing so, will not press their amendments. I turn first to Amendment 69, in the names of the noble Lords, Lord Browne of Ladyton Lord Clement-Jones, and the noble Baroness, Lady Kidron. In doing so, I thank them for their steadfast and unwavering support.

I understand that the Government wish to bring forward their own amendment in time for Third Reading, I need to get absolute assurances from the Minister that it would be consent-based, as he has confirmed, cover solicitation, use the same definition of “an intimate state” as in the pre-existing sharing offence, that the limitation of time under the Magistrates’ Court Act will be taken as the date on which the victim becomes aware that the content has been created, and not the date on which it was created, and that it will include clarity under the law that the content used for image-based abuse will have clear guidance under Section 153 of the Sentencing Code.

If I cannot have absolute assurance from the noble Lord, I am motivated to test the opinion of the House, because a deepfake offence without the inclusion of solicitation will not be holistic. Amendment 69 vitally includes the solicitation of this content in order to close the gaps in the law and ensure that it cannot be circumnavigated by asking someone else in another jurisdiction where they have not yet legislated to create the content for you. It makes it an offence to solicit the content whether or not the creation happens. This vitally reflects the borderless nature of the internet and ensures that those in the UK who seek to abuse women by circumnavigating the proposed law will be held accountable.

Anyone who has had to witness their clothed images being touted on these sites dedicated to abuse will be subject to enormous fear and forced to live under the threat that the creation of sexually explicit content could happen at any moment. I would be grateful for the Minister’s absolute assurance that this will be part of the Government’s new amendment that they will bring at Third Reading and that it will be a consent-based solicitation offence. Without the inclusion of solicitation, we will be left with a gaping omission in our legislation.

My amendment uses the definition of “an intimate state” from Sections 66D(5), (6) and (7) of the Sexual Offences Act 2003 in order to have consistency with the pre-existing sharing laws. Unlike with the government amendment, victims will not have two separate definitions to contend with, depending on whether their image has been created or shared or both. I would just like a final reassurance from the Minister that this will be the definition.

My amendment clearly states in relation to Section 127(1) of the Magistrates’ Court Act 1980 on the limitation of time that the date on which the matter of complaint arose will be taken as the date on which the victim becomes aware of the content, as opposed to the date on which the perpetrator created the content. I need assurance from the Minister that their proposed amendment would do the same, so women are not inadvertently timed out of seeking justice. This issue was highlighted to me by campaigners at #NotYourPorn.

I turn now to Amendment 70 on the deletion of data used to perpetrate intimate image abuse. Following Committee, where I explained to the House that victims were being retraumatised by their abusers still being in possession of sexually explicit content of them following successful prosecution, I was very disheartened by the government response that no action was necessary due to Section 153 of the Sentencing Act 2020. I believe clarity under the pre-existing law is essential in order to avoid situations where victims are left traumatised and in a state of anxiety by their abusers keeping their intimate images.

However, I am very pleased that, following my amendment, the Government have had a change of heart. I understand that they are now willing to commit to amending the deprivation order powers of Section 153 of the Sentencing Code 2020 to ensure that courts can apply the orders to images and videos relating to the conviction of this offence, and any hardware. I would need the Minister’s assurance that it would also include physical copies and those held on any device, cloud-based programmes, digital messaging or social media platforms that the perpetrator controls. I would also like the commitment that this will be applied to the other pre- existing intimate image abuse offences, as my amendment did.

I turn to Amendment 72, which is in my name and those of the noble Baroness, Lady Gohir, and the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones. The noble Baroness, Lady Gohir, has previously highlighted to the House the growing problem of audio abuse. It is easy to envisage that, in only a short space of time, we could very realistically be in the same place on audio abuse as we are with sexually explicit deepfakes, as less data is required to create high-quality audio. This has the potential to be weaponised to yet again abuse women. We have the chance now to be proactive. I hope the Government, if they are not prepared to commit to it now, will take it seriously in their upcoming justice Bill.

As I have set out, I am extremely grateful for the Minister’s movement on these issues. I know that it is not straightforward to produce complex amendments at speed and I know the Minister is committed to getting the details right in this vital legislation. I expect the Government to provide an undertaking to bring amendments back at Third Reading to address this issue. Unless I receive reassurances that such amendments will address all the issues in the manner I have set out, I will test the opinion of the House. If I receive the reassurances that I am looking for today but, for any reason, the Government do not follow through with them at Third Reading, I reserve the right to bring back my own amendment covering all the elements I have raised on this important issue. I look forward to hearing from the Minister.

[Baroness Gohir (CB)]

My Lords, I support everything the noble Baroness, Lady Owen, has said. I declare my interests as set out in the register. I will briefly speak on Amendment 72 about sexually explicit audio abuse, which I have raised a couple of times before.

I am concerned about why, now the Government know and are aware that sexually explicit audio abuse is a thing, they do not want to act now. We have victims right now. Perpetrators are making these recordings and using them to threaten and blackmail. They share these recordings to shame their victims and to maintain power and control. In some communities where shame and honour are a thing, those victims are then at risk of honour-based abuse. With new technologies, you can create deepfake audio as well.

It feels like the Government are kicking this into the long grass. I welcome the Minister’s comments that this will be considered, but there seems to be no timetable; it could be years before action is taken. I wonder whether the Government are waiting for there to be more noise on the issue and for more victims to come forward before they take action. Why not nip this in the bud now? The Minister mentioned the crime and policing Bill. It would be good to know why, for example, it cannot be included in that. I hope that we can shut down this avenue of abuse now and prevent there being more victims.

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[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab)]

Yes. If the noble Baroness wants to bring back a similar amendment on this issue, that indeed can be debated at Third Reading.

[Baroness Owen of Alderley Edge (Con)]

Before the noble Lord sits down, may I get his assurance that deletion will include cloud-based systems and physical copies? He mentioned hardware, but I would like the assurance on the additional physical copies, those held on any device, cloud-based system, digital, messaging or social media platform that a person controls, because you can post something to a personal account without actually having shared it with other people. I would like clarification around that.

[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab)]

That is certainly the intention of the legislation, but I am aware that it is extremely complex.

[Baroness Owen of Alderley Edge (Con)]

Before the noble Lord sits down again—forgive me—I am concerned about women being inadvertently timed out by the six-month limitation. Could the noble Lord address this point with a little more clarity please?

[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab)]

Yes, I understand the point the noble Baroness makes. but that is also something which we are willing to look at. The noble Baroness’s amendment was on the point at which a woman knows that has been such an intimate image abuse. I would point out to her that there may be many cases where the woman never knows that there has been such a type of abuse. I am thinking of previous legislation on upskirting. There have been successful convictions of people for upskirting where the woman never knew she was a victim and the images were of no particular determinate time. I understand the point the noble Baroness is making and I agree in general terms, but there may be a way of addressing the point, capturing the wider point I am making of women who may not know they are victims.

I beg leave to withdraw Amendment 56A.

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Tabled by

[Baroness Owen of Alderley Edge]

69: After Clause 132, insert the following new Clause—
“Digitally created sexually explicit photographs or filmsIn the Sexual Offences Act 2003, after section 66D, insert—“66E Creating or soliciting a non-consensual digitally produced sexually explicit photograph or film(1) A person (A) commits an offence if—(a) A creates or solicits the creation of a digitally produced sexually explicit photograph or film of another person (B),(b) B does not consent to the creation or solicitation of the photograph or film, and(c) A does not reasonably believe that B consents.(2) Subsection (1) applies when the solicitation of the creation of digitally produced sexually explicit photograph or film has taken place in the United Kingdom, irrespective of the location of the person or persons who have been solicited for the creation of such a photograph or film.(3) A person (A) may commit an offence under this section whether or not creation occurs.(4) It is a defence for a person charged with an offence under subsection (1) to prove that the person had a reasonable excuse for creating, or soliciting the creation of, the photograph or film.(5) A person who commits an offence under subsection (1) is liable on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding the maximum term for summary offences or a fine (or both).(6) In relation to section 127(1) of the Magistrates’ Court Act 1980 (limitation of time) the date on which the “matter of complaint” arose will be taken as the date on which B becomes aware that an offence under this section may have been committed. (7) In this section, “soliciting” means encouraging or facilitating the creation of a digitally produced sexually explicit photograph or film.(8) In this section, “sexually explicit photograph or film” means a photograph or film, as defined in section 66A(3) to (5), which appears to be a photograph or film of anyone in an “intimate state” as defined in section 66D(5), (6) or (7).””

[Baroness Owen of Alderley Edge (Con)]

I thank the Minister and all noble Lords who spoke. The Minister stopped short of saying that he will bring forward an amendment at Third Reading. It is clearly the will of the House to address and debate this issue at Third Reading. I therefore give notice that in the absence of a government amendment I will be bringing back an amendment next week at Third Reading. I accept the noble Lord’s kind offer to continue to engage.

Amendment 69 not moved.

AI: “Nudify” Apps

Baroness Owen of Alderley Edge Excerpts

Tuesday 13th February 2024 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Baroness Owen of Alderley Edge]

To ask His Majesty’s Government whether they plan to prohibit “nudify” apps which create intimate images of other people using artificial intelligence without their consent.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Science, Innovation and Technology (Viscount Camrose) (Con)]

My Lords, the Online Safety Act introduced new offences which criminalised the sharing of, or threatening to share, intimate images, including deepfakes, without consent. Where individuals create these images using any kind of technology and share or threaten to share them online, they may be committing an offence. The Act will additionally give online platforms new duties to tackle this content by removing it, including where it has been created via AI apps.

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[Baroness Owen of Alderley Edge (Con)]

I thank my noble friend the Minister for his Answer. There has been a huge increase in the use of nudify apps and the creation of deepfake porn since the Law Commission stated that it was less sure that the level of harm caused by the making of these images and videos was serious enough to criminalise. Does my noble friend agree that the making of these images and videos without a person’s consent does in fact cause serious harm, regardless of whether a person is aware of it, and that, if allowed to continue, represents a real threat to all women?

[Viscount Camrose (Con)]

I start by acknowledging that the creation of intimate image deepfakes using AI or other means is abusive and deeply distressing to anyone concerned and very disturbing to all of us. The Law Commission consulted widely on this, looking at the process of taking, making, possessing and sharing deepfakes, and its conclusion was that the focus of legislative effort ought to be on sharing, which it now is. That said, this is a fast-moving space. The capabilities of these tools are growing rapidly and, sadly, the number of users is growing rapidly, so we will continue to monitor that.

King’s Speech

Baroness Owen of Alderley Edge Excerpts

Tuesday 14th November 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Owen of Alderley Edge (Con) (Maiden Speech)]

My Lords, it is a tremendous privilege to make my maiden speech in your Lordships’ House. It has been quite the journey getting to this moment, and I am immensely grateful for the guidance and advice that so many noble Lords have offered me. I am especially grateful to my supporters, my noble friends Lady Foster of Oxton and Lady Meyer, and my wonderful mentors, my noble friends Lady Morris of Bolton and Lady Seccombe. I would like to express my gratitude to Black Rod, the clerks, the doorkeepers—everyone who works in the House—and the special advisers who have helped me navigate my first few weeks in the role. I am also most grateful for the friendship and support of all my friends in the other place, whom I have had the honour of working with for a number of years.

A peerage is both an honour and a responsibility. It is a responsibility I take incredibly seriously. It is testament to the high level of discourse in this place that debate can be robust yet incredibly collegiate. I have been overwhelmed by the welcome of noble Lords across your Lordships’ House, all of whom have said how important it is for younger voices to be part of your Lordships’ deliberations.

I am part of a generation whose unique opportunities are accompanied by new challenges, from the difficulty of getting on to the housing ladder to the spiralling cost of university debt, the complexities of living in a social media age and the very real fear about our climate. We live in a time of great change. It is a confusing time; it is also a time of instability and anxiety. This is perhaps so for everyone, but it is surely so for the young.

I was born in 1993. George Michael was still at number one and the Spice Girls were about to set in motion a wave of girl power. I am a child of the dial- up internet connection, when mobile phones were only for phone calls and the world wide web was about to be launched to the public. Throughout my life I have witnessed not only the benefits of our ever-closer relationship with technology but, sadly, the threats that such advances can bring. This is an issue of great and increasing concern to me, as I am sure it should be to us all.

I followed with great interest the Online Safety Bill, which represents a landmark in online safety. I was delighted that my vote contributed to making the UK one of the safest places in the world to be online—something of which this Government should be hugely proud. However, the online world is evolving at pace, and we should not be complacent. I am greatly encouraged that the UK has shown leadership by hosting the first global summit on artificial intelligence and that the gracious Speech reaffirmed the UK’s commitment to leading international discussions to ensure its safe development. I look forward to addressing both the challenges and opportunities that technology and, in particular, AI present.

I must also thank the former Prime Minister, Boris Johnson, who put a great deal of trust in me. I will be for ever grateful not only for this but for his kindness and encouragement. I feel immensely privileged to have worked with him and other Cabinet Ministers during my time at No. 10. I was delighted that his commitment to delivering the referendum result, his optimism and his vision for levelling up the country and ensuring that life chances are distributed fairly resulted in the seismic election victory of 2019.

I wish to take a moment to pay tribute to my parents, especially my dear late father. Born in Unstone in 1930, he was a child during the war. He would often tell me of the horrors of those days, such as the time when he went cycling with his brother and they had to jump off their bikes and take cover as a Messerschmitt Bf 109 machine-gunned a passing freight train. Another time, the windows of his family home were blown out when the house opposite took a direct hit during the Manchester blitz. Despite this, my father always had a positive outlook on life. I like to think that this is a quality he instilled in me. He did not even complain when his retirement plans changed because of my arrival in the world. When I was a small girl, he would often tell me that it was possible to achieve anything that you put your mind to.

It was aspiration and the desire to get on in life that helped shape my parents’ politics. My mother has told me of how her own parents’ lives changed when Margaret Thatcher’s Government gave them the opportunity to buy the council house in Alderley Edge that was allocated to my grandfather on his return from the war—a policy I am sure most of your Lordships remember and for which some of your Lordships were perhaps responsible. My grandmother was so delighted by this policy that she went around knocking on all her neighbours’ doors to let them know about this life- changing opportunity. Up until that point, owning their own home was beyond their wildest dreams. It seems that levelling up was alive and well decades ago. It is vital that we create a climate where younger generations have a chance at home ownership, so that they too can feel secure for their future.

I end where I began: with thanks. I express my gratitude to all noble Lords for the warmth of their welcome and the kindness shown to me. During my time in your Lordships’ House, I hope to repay that kindness.