A Manifesto to Strengthen Families

Baroness O'Cathain Excerpts

Thursday 2nd November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness O’Cathain (Con)]

My Lords, I congratulate my noble friend Lord Farmer and all his 65 Conservative supporters from both Houses on his excellent paper, A Manifesto to Strengthen Families. It has been beautifully produced and is easy to read. It contains 18 policies to support the Government in their aim to strengthen families as part of their wider ambition for social reform.

As we have heard, family breakdown is estimated to cost almost £50 billion a year. That is a huge amount, but the manifesto points out that it is a fraction of the overall cost as fractured families are likely to be dependent on the state. Strengthening families has to be one of the most important social justice priorities of our times. The long-term, indeed probably lifetime, effect of fractured families is so sad. It is heart-breaking to contemplate how frequently marriages that were celebrated with joy and happiness collapse in a morass of recrimination, unhappiness and even hatred. Of course there are massive support systems that can be called into play, including mediation, help from other family members, support from social workers, the Church and many others.

The 18 policy points in this manifesto are set out in practical language that is free of jargon. This makes it a valuable contribution to our thinking and examination of what can be done to tackle this seemingly intractable situation. The first policy points out that supporting families cuts across every part of government and recommends that a Cabinet Minister with responsibility for families should be appointed, along with the suggestion to establish a cross-cutting body similar to the Government Equalities Office that is based in the Department for Education to enable the co-ordination of family policies. In addition, the recommendation proposes that all departmental business in every area of government should have specific targets and produce impact assessments in relation to the development of bespoke family policies.

The document contains a quite amazing amount of information, suggestions and downright common sense and it is impossible to find fault with it. It would also be presumptuous of me to attempt to do so, as I almost certainly have less experience of families than almost anyone else in the Chamber. What experience I have is decades out of touch, but from remembering my personal experience, the glaring omission in the manifesto is a recommendation for a specific policy to involve grandparents in the bringing up of children.

Today’s grandparents are much more in tune with children than those of the 20th century. They are more active, more travelled, healthier and more aware of what children need and value. As an aside, I am told that Beveridge made no reference to life after retirement from work. He would be so surprised to realise that today’s 60 year-olds can be so fit—marathon runners—and willing and able to be involved with their offspring’s offspring.

Research from the University of Oxford has shown that grandparents play a vital role in children’s well-being, and the results have informed UK family policy. Professor Ann Buchanan’s study of more than 1,500 children demonstrated that those with a higher level of grandparental involvement had fewer emotional and behavioural problems. However, there is one big problem: grandparents have no legal right to see their grandchildren. Professor Buchanan has addressed all parliamentary parties to raise awareness of how grandparents contribute positively to grandchildren’s well-being. I am told the Government have promised a review on family law to look at how best to provide greater access rights for grandparents. I wish the Minister well in his new position and ask him when the review is likely to be published? If it is still in the embryonic stage, will he suggest that it may be a good idea to widen the terms of reference beyond the ghastly situation now pertaining, whereby access can be hopelessly difficult in some cases?

Higher Education and Research Bill

Baroness O'Cathain Excerpts

Committee: 2nd sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 11th January 2017 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

I do not want to go precisely into that at the moment except to say only that the Government continue to look at these complex points. The Bill addresses the issue by making sure that all the groups mentioned in this debate are being considered. In addition, outside the Bill, we are doing much for part-time learning by putting it into a generic form, and we are offering tuition fee loans for part-time students so that they can choose to study. This does not affect the tuition support available. For the first time ever we intend to provide financial support to part-time students similar to that given to full-time students, and in 2018-19 we intend to introduce new part-time maintenance loans, on which we are currently consulting.

[Baroness O’Cathain (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for giving way. Surely one of the reasons is the appalling lack of broadband access throughout the country. Going back to what the noble Lord, Lord Giddens, said about the technological advances that are going to transform education and learning, it is nevertheless a fact that people find it extremely difficult to get involved if their broadband connection goes on and then off. I see in her place across the Chamber the chair of the Digital Skills Committee, which tried to encourage people to get a grip on this, but unfortunately the momentum seems to have gone out of it.

I almost intervened earlier to say that one of the main advantages of part-time and distance learning is that it keeps people’s brains going and reduces the potential impact of mental health problems.

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

My Lords, I said that these are complex matters and, as I said, I do not intend to lead the Committee or be led into this particular trap. Perhaps I may stress the point made by my noble friend. The Government are extremely aware of the issues in some areas of the country as regards broadband support. The Committee will be aware that separately we are working very hard on this aspect.

Schools: Careers Guidance

Baroness O'Cathain Excerpts

Tuesday 25th February 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Nash]

I take the noble Baroness’s point, although I think that more people staying on in school is hardly our biggest problem in education. Ofsted is very focused on making sure that guidance is given well. In relation to apprenticeships, we fund the National Apprenticeship Service that funds the Education and Employers Taskforce to deliver a programme of apprenticeship knowledge and employability skills to 16 to 18 year-olds. More than 70 advisers from the National Careers Service, the National Apprenticeship Service and Jobcentre Plus were stationed in the Skills Show in November last year, and the National Careers Service and the National Apprenticeship Service ran a jobs bus road show. A wide range of marketing materials and resources about apprenticeships are available on the National Apprenticeship Service website and it has also developed a free mobile app. So this is something we are very focused on.

[Baroness O'Cathain (Con)]

My Lords, can my noble friend tell the careers advice people that we must make sure that we get the right jobs for the right people? The mismatch at the moment is horrendous, particularly with ICT jobs. It is estimated that by the end of next year there will be something like 400,000 to 700,000 mismatched jobs. The competition in the BRIC and MINT countries is making hay when it comes to these jobs. What are we doing to try to rise to that challenge?

[Lord Nash]

My noble friend is quite right. The UK’s long-term economic future depends on high-level technology skills, and the Government are committed to strengthening the teaching of computing and in particular computer science in schools. That is why the new computing curriculum, which is to be taught from September this year, will be mandatory at all key stages. It has a greater focus on how computers work and on the basics of programming, as well as covering digital literacy and the application of information technology. It encourages pupils to design computer programmes to address real-world problems. The inclusion of computer science in the EBacc will help ensure that more pupils obtain a high-quality GCSE qualification.

Schools Careers Service: Apprenticeships

Baroness O'Cathain Excerpts

Wednesday 11th December 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Nash]

The National Apprenticeship Service funds the Education and Employers Taskforce, which is a programme to deliver knowledge about apprenticeships to schools. We also had 70 advisers from the National Careers Service and Jobcentre Plus stationed at the Skills Show in November. The National Careers Service and the National Apprenticeship Service ran a jobs bus road show, and we are pursuing a number of other measures in this area.

[Baroness O'Cathain (Con)]

My Lords, is my noble friend aware of the huge amount of work going on in the area of apprenticeships? Sub-Committee B of the European Union Committee is taking evidence on youth unemployment at the moment, and the great finding is that many large companies are actively getting involved in apprenticeships for the first time in many years. We have heard about some outstanding examples of this, and when our report comes out I think that he might be surprised.

[Lord Nash]

I am grateful for my noble friend’s comment. Our priority is to expand apprenticeships, particularly where they deliver the greatest benefits to young people, are of high quality, last longer and are more rigorous. Of course, since this Government came into power, we have delivered 1.5 million new apprenticeships.

Education Bill

Baroness O'Cathain Excerpts

Wednesday 26th October 2011 Lords Chamber

I do not want to delay the House any longer; I know that we have been going on for a long time. However, I hope that the Minister and his colleagues will find some way of ensuring that these elements, which make a great difference to how children learn, can be included. He has heard me say time and again that unless a child has a secure environment, either at home or in school—where it can be made up if it is not there at home—he or she will not learn. All the research on issues to do with thriving shows it. That is what we are about: getting children a good education and making them happy.

[Baroness O'Cathain]

My Lords, I wish to speak against the amendment for two reasons. First, I am concerned that, as has already been mentioned, it will add to the range of issues that already exist for assessment by school inspectors. In Clause 40, proposed new subsection (5A) indicates that Ofsted must focus on,

“the achievement of pupils at the school”,

and so on. I will not read it because we do not have the time but I refer to new paragraphs (a), (b), (c) and (d). The noble Lord, Lord Hylton, drew our attention to the fact that Ofsted must also consider the overarching framework, encompassing,

“the spiritual, moral, social and cultural development of pupils at the school”.

The same proposed new subsection also expects schools to provide for a,

“range of pupils at the school, and in particular … pupils who have a disability … and … pupils who have special educational needs”.

That is all in the Bill. It is all good and I am sure nobody would disagree with any of it.

My second reason for opposing the amendment is that, according to the amendment, it would require Ofsted to assess sex and relationships education in every state primary school. This is strange because, until now, primary schools have not been required to teach sex and relationships education. It is not a statutory national curriculum subject for primary schools. However, the amendment refers to all state schools, which encompasses primary schools.

I have a seriously worrying concern. Even now local councils and other public bodies are promoting wholly unsuitable resources for primary schoolchildren. At least, I take it that they are primary schoolchildren because the materials say that they are suitable from the age of five and a half. To my mind, that means primary schoolchildren. These materials are often recommended by the Sex Education Forum. Many noble Lords have already said that they have seen excerpts from this material. I have received e-mails reporting that where such material has been used, the children have been traumatised. Amendment 80 does not directly make sex and relationships education a national curriculum subject; it takes a different approach. Instead, it requires Ofsted inspectors to report on the delivery of PSHE, including sex and relationships education.

The amendment will apply unfair pressure to primary schools. Conscientious teachers and governors may feel under pressure to teach sex education when they would otherwise judge that it was not in the interests of their pupils. Primary schools will obviously fear being marked down in their Ofsted report if they are not using materials recommended by influential bodies such as the Sex Education Forum. How can they know—

[Baroness Massey of Darwen]

My Lords—

[Baroness O'Cathain]

Please let me finish my argument. How can they know what view a particular inspector will take? The amendment refers to assessing,

“the age and stage of development of the pupils”,

but is that practical for Ofsted in this contentious area? With everything else that is involved in an inspection, how can inspectors closely examine the sex education resources of any individual school? At present, local school governors and head teachers are responsible for making such decisions; they should be allowed to continue to do so.

I note that Amendment 80 would require Ofsted to report on how many parents are involved in the delivery of sex and relationships education but this is not the same as consulting parents as a whole. We genuinely need to empower parents. The government guidance issued in 2000 strongly advocates consultation with parents, yet all too often this does not occur. Yesterday there was a debate in the other place, in Westminster Hall; I recommend reading Commons Hansard, cols. 40 to 41WH, in which a lot of disquiet is expressed about this. Parents are busy people and trust schools to get on with teaching. However, many of them are unfamiliar with the sort of sex education resources being used. They need to be given a legal right to be consulted and to view resources in advance. This should not just be in guidance—it should be a legal right. In the mean time, this amendment is definitely a step in the wrong direction.

[Baroness Massey of Darwen]

Could I make two comments? First, would the noble Baroness agree that school governors have a significant role in overseeing teaching materials? Secondly, would she also agree that school inspections would protect children and prevent the materials that she describes getting into and being used in schools? That is the purpose of my amendment.

[Baroness O'Cathain]

I am very glad that the noble Baroness has said that. On the first point, I know quite a few school governors who will not have the time to look at these things in depth, so I am not sure that we could guarantee that some of these materials will not pass them by. On the second point, we know how infrequently Ofsted carries out the inspections in some of these areas so I would not want to leave it to that. There should be a legal requirement for parents to be able to see those materials.

[Lord Clarke of Hampstead]

My Lords, I hope that, at this late hour, the Government will firmly reject this amendment. I have no reason to quarrel with the integrity of the people who have proposed it, some of whom I have known for many years. I believe that they are blessed with the intelligence to put forward what they think is the right thing. Like wider roads, stronger beer, motherhood and apple pie, you could say snap to most of the amendment. What has been said about bullying and civic learning is absolutely clear. However, I have been here long enough to know that when someone says that something should be included in a Bill you have to be careful.

The amendment is actually saying that a school inspector “must”, not “could” look at the type of school and what its policies are. That is where we have a problem. There will be some schools that do not have a policy on the subject that has exercised us for most of this debate. Most schools make up their minds through the governors and parents, or through whatever consultation they have, and they make their decisions. If the amendment is carried, the chief inspector must ask those schools the questions and will have to report on them. In most areas the report would be clear.

The right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Ripon and Leeds referred to the Government’s intention. However, it was only two days ago that the Minister was able to tell the House, at col. 543 of the Official Report, that the Government had no intention of changing the policy on sex education. I thought to myself, “That is good. There is no need for the proposed new paragraph because we have heard a clear statement from the Government”. I welcomed that at the time.

I am not influenced by hundreds of letters. I was not influenced by them on fox hunting and all the other issues that attract a deluge of correspondence. I admit that I did not receive much teaching because I left school at the age of 14, but I was taught to think for myself. It is wrong to put words in the Bill that could force people in certain circumstances to do things that they do not want to do. Therefore, in the event of a Division, I shall vote against the amendment—although reluctantly, because I recognise the integrity of those who are proposing it.

Education Bill

Baroness O'Cathain Excerpts

Wednesday 13th July 2011 Grand Committee

[Baroness Howarth of Breckland]

My Lords, I do not have an amendment and I do not have a speech, but I have a question: how do we come to be where we are in this debate at all? The Government have made it absolutely clear that they have an agenda about well-being, particularly about well-being for children. They have also made it clear that, when findings show that children in our country are less happy than in other parts of Europe, they want to do something about improving that position. They, like the previous Government, have also undertaken that elements of PSHE are very important in the curriculum. With due humility, the Minister might do well to go away with those people who have long lists of amendments and talk them through. I do not think that the noble Baronesses, Lady Walmsley and Lady Massey, are likely to give up. We will get somewhere that way.

Many of the arguments I would have made have now already been made but I intervened to put one argument particularly for a group of children who, without this education, will not have any benefit in these areas—that is, very poor and vulnerable children who come from some of the deepest, darkest estates in our country and with whom I spend quite a lot of time. These children are subject to relationship breakdown or find themselves in care. They do not get this kind of education in their homes. People will try and give it in residential care—foster carers will give it—but they will have interrupted relationships and care. They will not have that kind of secure relationship and understanding that many other children will have. It is for this group of children that I plead. They are children who are in conflict.

As the chair of the Children and Family Court Advisory and Support Service, I work with a young people’s board. I do not give many anecdotes when speaking in Committee but those children often talk about teachers in school giving them some of the elements that help them hold themselves together through extraordinarily conflicted experiences in their homes. Teachers are at this moment attempting to give this kind of education. It needs space, skill and structure. I cannot understand why we are at this point in the debate because this is what the Government want as well.

[Baroness O'Cathain]

I support the Education Bill and particularly the determination to have a slimmed-down national curriculum. In the fascinating debate on Monday, the noble Lord, Lord Sutherland of Houndwood, was right to advocate,

“a balanced education with a minimum core”,—[Official Report, 11/7/11; col. GC 224.]

which allows room for the professionalism of teachers. I strongly approach that approach.

In the same debate on Amendment 83, the noble Lord, Lord Knight, who unfortunately is not in his place and we know why, expressed the wish that children would get up in the morning wanting to go to school. The aim should be good teaching on core subjects that encourages all pupils to feel involved and indeed excited by a love of learning and increasing their knowledge. Maths would even bring alive the dreary subject of economics—I am sorry that the noble Lord, Lord Peston, is no longer with us. History could be expanded to show how social structures evolve, informing pupils on how to react to differing situations. What better way to develop good communication skills than to learn lessons from the best communicators of the past by studying works of the great poets, authors and orators?

However, Amendments 88, 89, 90 and 98 would take us in a completely different direction. As we have heard, their effect would be to expand the curriculum to introduce statutory personal, social, health and economic education for all maintained schools. As we have already heard this evening from the noble Lord, Lord Layard, PSHE is extremely difficult to teach. Now we have a situation: how can we have a slimmed-down curriculum and yet put in it more and more issues that are extremely difficult to teach?

[Baroness Massey of Darwen]

PSHE is a subject which, given the ethos and support for it in school, can run across all subjects in the curriculum. That is the focus for it. The noble Baroness is of course perfectly right about communication. However, it needs a core, even if it is a small one, of personal social and health education so that that core can expand into other subjects and be beneficial for the child. There is no denying that if we want good academic results in our schools we have to give a focus to relationships education and young people feeling comfortable with themselves and their own learning abilities.

[Baroness O'Cathain]

I am grateful for that intervention and the noble Baroness is absolutely right that all of that can be taught through the other ways. However, why are we going to duplicate and have a special core subject called personal, social and health education as well as insisting that it is part of the maths curriculum, the English curriculum, the history curriculum and whatever?

My greatest objection is to Amendment 98. If agreed, Amendment 98 would extend sex education to all children from five years of age upwards. I find this deeply concerning and even abhorrent. Many of us were very thankful that the previous Government ran out of time for similar plans before last year’s election. Among other measures, detailed sex education lessons for children as young as five were proposed.

[Baroness Massey of Darwen]

I am sorry to interrupt the noble Baroness again. The noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, is saying they were not and I will leave her to deal with that. What I would like to say—and I did say earlier—is that the curriculum should be appropriate to the age and stage of the child. I gave the example of not lobbing cricket balls fast at my two year-old grandson, but to start slowly. I should not mention the press but this popular newspaper thing about sex education at five is quite inaccurate. Teachers do not do this. Teachers talk about relationships and friendships at five, they do not talk about HIV/AIDS and all the rest of that. It is simply not true.

[Baroness O'Cathain]

That is a marvellous statement that is simply not true, because it is actually said that you want to repeal the statutory requirement that sex education is not taught between the ages of five and seven. This amendment would repeal that statutory requirement. In other words, if you are saying that you want sex education for five to seven year-olds to stay exactly as it is, I have no problem.

[Baroness Whitaker]

I support Amendment 98, in particular new subsections (6) and (7). We live in a nation of many cultures and several faiths. I declare an interest as a vice president of the British Humanist Association. These many cultures and several faiths are a huge asset for our culture, understanding of the world, trade, regeneration and enterprise—lots of things—but to realise these assets we need to be at ease with our fellow citizens, to understand their culture and their faith, especially when we do not share it. If we do not have this opportunity in school, we risk losing out culturally and economically but, almost more importantly, we risk increasing bigotry and prejudice.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Walmsley]

I thank all noble Lords who have taken part in the debate, especially my noble friend the Minister. He may have disappointed me, but he has not surprised me. Perhaps I may make a few points to follow up on what noble Lords have said. First, I turn to the Minister’s response. The noble Lord, Lord Knight, achieved a very wide consensus, and that is why I took the three clauses from the Bill that was lost before the general election. The reason I took them as the basis for my amendments is the wide consensus that they had achieved among people who run schools of all faiths. I felt that those clauses struck the right balance.

My noble friend says that he does not want to be prescriptive about what should be taught. I do not think that my amendments are prescriptive. They talk about areas that should be taught, but they certainly do not set out programmes of work which, personally, I think should be quite spare and leave a great deal to the discretion and professionalism of teachers. However, we are prescriptive in other subjects. Before long, when the review of the national curriculum reaches its conclusions, there will be prescription about what children should be taught in physics, English, geography and all the rest. We are going to get that, so why not PSHE, too, which is so fundamentally important?

I would say to the noble Baroness, Lady Turner of Camden, that I understand where she is coming from in her comments but, as I have just said, these amendments came from her own Government’s Bill which, before the general election, she supported. What we have to do is get the balance right between the principles I have laid down in my amendments—I think most people would agree with them—and the rights of parents to send their children to schools in the faith that they themselves uphold, and for those schools to teach PSHE in the light of their own faith. I do not see anything wrong with that.

I was quite disappointed that the noble Baroness, Lady O’Cathain, could not support me. In order to address the issues that she and others of her opinion expressed when we discussed this matter before the general election, I made modifications to the clauses. I absolutely deny that five year-olds are taught the details of human sex. They are not. But it was in order to take account of some people’s fear that they might be taught in that way that I made that area and one or two other areas of the curriculum I am proposing voluntary. Schools can do this in an age-appropriate way, as set out in the amendments, but if they do not want to do it, they do not have to.

[Baroness O'Cathain]

I thank the noble Baroness for giving way. The point I am making—I am finding it hard to speak because I am not very well—is that at the moment there is legislation which states that sex education cannot be provided for five to seven year-olds, but these amendments would repeal that. That is what I have been informed. If I am wrong, I apologise, but that is the basis of my objection.

[Baroness Walmsley]

I accept what the noble Baroness has heard, but it is not my understanding that that is the case. However, I am sure that we can look at it outside the Committee.

What I am really saying is that we want children to be learning-ready. PSHE is not an extra subject that I am trying to put into the curriculum. I agree absolutely with the Minister that we need to slim the curriculum down. However, PSHE is not any old subject; it is a fundamental underpinning. None of us ladies would go around without foundation garments because they make our fashions look better on the outside. It is really important that children have the skills and understanding that enable them to benefit from all the other subjects that we decide that they must learn—the core ones they must learn or the additional ones that they may take.

I understand where the noble Lord, Lord Sutherland, is coming from. I would not want to load the curriculum with a lot of extra subjects, but he did make the point that we do not do this very well. That is exactly why I would like to make PSHE statutory. People would then train as specialists. As the noble Lord rightly said, without training, some of these areas are difficult to teach. I myself was thrown in at the deep end—many teachers are. I would certainly have benefited from training but, if that were a statutory part of the national curriculum, Ofsted would have to inspect it at every school level.

I am grateful to the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Chester for raising the subject of parenthood. As far as I am concerned, that would come into the relationships and sex part of PSHE. Parents have relationships between each other and with their children. It is particularly their relationship with their children that would be important there. I absolutely agree with the noble Lord, Lord Northbourne, and his passion for getting young people taught some parenting skills. That is very important.

Finally, on the voting record of the noble Lord, Lord McAvoy, I am quite sure that he would want to support my amendments. I reassure him that what he seeks would not be precluded by my three amendments in any way whatever.