Agriculture Bill

Baroness Northover Excerpts

Committee stage & Committee: 7th sitting (Hansard) & Committee: 7th sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Tuesday 28th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD) [V]]

My Lords, like others, I begin by expressing my admiration for the stamina, professionalism and tolerance which the noble Lord, Lord Gardiner, has displayed throughout these extensive proceedings. I am similarly appreciative of the efforts of the staff of all kinds who have ensured that this marathon Committee has, at last—but not quite—come to an end. I would also like to adopt —as the lawyers say, brevitatis causa—the most erudite analysis pronounced by the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, on the history of Henry VIII powers, getting up to date with a reference from the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, who I shall say a word or two about in a moment.

Henry VIII powers, when they are made, are almost always in the interests of the Government, not the public. With a framework Bill, together with the authority to use Henry VIII powers for repealing certain statutory provisions, this Government could easily create for themselves a blank canvas upon which to make detailed provision, which to a large extent would be sidestepping Parliament. That surely cannot be right.

Let me finish by issuing a recommendation to noble Lords. The noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, in a lecture in April 2016, conducted an analysis rather similar to that of the noble Lord, Lord Thomas. He finished by saying

“what was once a small stream of delegated legislation … has become an inundation.”

Amendment 295 will not necessarily stem the tide, but it may slow down the flow to a certain extent.

[Baroness Northover (LD) [V]]

Clearly, there are major risks with Henry VIII clauses, and we have more of them in this Bill. My noble friend Lord Thomas reminded us of the roots of the term, and that the tools were once weaker than those used by the Government today. Statutory instruments are unamendable and almost never voted down. These clauses use secondary legislation to amend primary legislation. We are getting more and more instances of their use.

The House of Lords Select Committee on the Constitution has been very critical of this. As the committee put it:

“A distinguishing feature of the Brexit bills was the extent of the delegated powers they contained. Many were skeleton bills, providing broad powers to ministers to create new policy regimes and public bodies for the UK after Brexit with little or no detail as to what policy would be implemented or the nature of institutions which would be created.”


The University of Bristol Law School has noted:

“It seems that the desire to ‘take back control’ from the EU has morphed into an altogether more sinister desire on the part of the Government to minimise scrutiny of its policy choices.”


The noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, to whom other noble Lords have referred, has called for such clauses to be

“confined to the dustbin of history”.

He is surely right.

There was huge concern about this when the predecessor Bill was published in 2018. There have been improvements, but they are insufficient. It is still not clear what the policy will be in the coming years, with so many “may”s and so few “must”s in this Bill. All noble Lords who have lasted this long in the proceedings on the Bill to contribute to this group have expressed concern. The Minister is probably relieved that some stood aside, but I expect they would have said similar things. However, even that would not have tested the patience of the Minister, who richly deserves a summer holiday back in the English countryside. But he will have much to think about.

Despite the changes from the 2018 Agriculture Bill, the Delegated Powers Committee remains concerned, and these amendments reflect that. These amendments also reflect the NFU’s concern. Nothing is certain for British agriculture at the moment, and these powers need to be clarified and curtailed. I look forward to the Minister’s response.

[Lord Grantchester]

I am grateful to the noble Lords, Lord Carrington and Lord Greaves, and others for tabling Amendment 295 to Clause 47, “Regulations”, under Part 8, “General and Final Provisions”, and Amendment 298 to Clause 50, “Power to make consequential etc provision”. They are correct to look at every opportunity the Government may feel they need to extend their powers on what is essentially a framework Bill without a lot of detail.

The amendments made me check the 13th report of the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee of your Lordships’ House. The committee’s oversight of each piece of primary legislation is always cogent and thoughtful. In consequence, any criticism is always considered and answered carefully by the Government. On rereading the report, I am slightly surprised that the Delegated Powers Committee did not flag up these clauses’ ability to make amendments to primary legislation by secondary orders. The House has usually argued that unless there are very good reasons for doing so, changes to primary legislation should come only from a new Bill.

I have now reread the clauses very carefully and wonder whether this provision was not flagged because the relevant subsections do not actually confer a delegated power to modify primary legislation but contain a provision that already modifies primary legislation, retained EU legislation or subordinate legislation; that is, something that is already delegated and clarifies how other powers may be used. I would welcome the Minister’s explanation.

I do not wish to prolong proceedings but, together with my noble friend Lady Jones of Whitchurch, I echo the remarks of other noble Lords in appreciating the uniformly consistent and fulsome answers that the Minister, the noble Baroness, Lady Bloomfield, and the whole Bill team have provided to all our inquiries. All responses have been comprehensive and expressed constructively in all our deliberations. The praise given by your Lordships is well deserved for the patience shown towards us. I have always found the ministerial answers most helpful.

After a very long Committee stage, I just add that I have not found the Committee essentially negative towards the Bill; rather, my impression is that as the Committee has proceeded with its inquiries, the ambitions contained in the Bill have become better appreciated.