Budget: Small and Medium-sized Businesses

Baroness Neville-Rolfe Excerpts

Thursday 27th November 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

I am grateful to my noble friend for her support for what we announced yesterday in terms of apprenticeships. We are investing £1.5 billion over the spending review period for investment in employment and skills support, including £725 million for the growth and skills levy to help support apprenticeships for young people and to fully fund SME apprenticeships for under-25s. We will also introduce new reforms to simplify the apprenticeship system and make it more efficient when short courses are introduced from April 2026.

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

My Lords, as someone who champions SMEs and regularly has my amendments rejected by the Government, I welcome some of what the Minister has set out. It will, however, be offset by the increase in dividend tax, which has been mentioned, and the negative effect of wider tax increases. Our main disappointment with the Budget, as has already been said, is the disappearance of growth as the principal objective, with no significant positive impact by 2030 according to the OBR. Does he agree that this neglect is particularly bad for SMEs, and can he answer the two questions on the overall impact of the Budget on SMEs now?

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

I am grateful to the noble Baroness for her question. No, I do not accept that the Budget is bad overall for growth and for SMEs. As I have said, the OBR has upgraded Britain’s growth forecast for this year from 1% to 1.5%. The noble Baroness’s policy of going back to austerity and cutting spending by £47 billion would be exactly the wrong thing to do at this point for growth. We need to maintain investment in our economy. In this Budget, we are cutting inflation, cutting borrowing every year of the forecast and keeping interest rates down. We are maintaining higher levels of public investment for decades, building houses, roads, railways and energy infrastructure, and backing our fastest-growing companies. She mentioned growth. She may have seen this morning that JP Morgan, the global investment bank, announced a $10 billion investment in the UK with its intention to build its new landmark tower in London. Jamie Dimon, the CEO, said:

“The UK Government's priority of economic growth has been a critical factor in helping us make this decision”.

Forthcoming Fiscal Changes

Baroness Neville-Rolfe Excerpts

Tuesday 25th November 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

As the noble Earl knows, alongside the Budget tomorrow, the Office for Budget Responsibility will set out the conclusions of its review of the supply side of the UK economy. I will not pre-empt those conclusions, but it is likely that the OBR will downgrade its historic assessment of the UK’s productivity and find that the productivity performance we inherited from the last Government is weaker than previously thought. The causes of this economic underperformance are well understood: austerity, Brexit and the Liz Truss mini-Budget have left deep scars on the British economy that are still felt today.

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

My Lords, one of the main objectives of the Treasury, as stated on its own website, is to:

“Ensure the stability of the macro-economic environment”.


Few people believe that this stability objective has been achieved in recent weeks, which have instead been characterised by presentational chaos. As my question is not a Budget question, does the Minister agree?

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

The noble Baroness talks about stability and chaos; let us talk about 14 years of chaos. First, there was austerity, which took demand out of the economy at exactly the wrong moment, cutting investment and undermining the economy’s ability to grow. Then we saw a disastrous and tragically misjudged Brexit deal, which imposed new trade barriers equivalent to a 13% increase in tariffs for manufacturing and a 20% increase in tariffs for services, reducing total trade intensity by 15% and permanently reducing GDP by 4 percentage points. Finally, the Liz Truss mini-Budget crashed the economy and sent mortgages soaring by £300 a month. We on this side will take no lessons from the party opposite on how to manage the economy.

Budget: Press Briefings

Baroness Neville-Rolfe Excerpts

Tuesday 18th November 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

My Lords, two weeks ago the Chancellor held an unprecedented press conference at Downing Street. As a result, everyone believed that income tax rates would be increased in the Budget. However, last Friday, the Financial Times, obviously briefed by Downing Street, said that this plan had been scrapped, leading to an instant increase in bond rates and debt servicing costs. Has the Treasury launched an investigation into the source of this and related leaks? If not, why not? Is it that the source of such leaks is all too obvious—the noble Lord’s political friends?

[The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord Livermore) (Lab)]

I am grateful to the noble Baroness for her question. She claims that it is unprecedented for a Chancellor to comment on the economic situation ahead of a Budget. I do not think it is in any way unusual; there is always speculation ahead of it. As she knows, I am not going to speculate on the next Budget now or comment on any individual tax measure, nor will I comment on the ongoing Budget process. The Chancellor has asked the OBR to produce a new forecast. The OBR and the Treasury exchange information throughout the forecast process, which is usual practice, established over many years. The Chancellor will then take decisions based on that forecast and set out our fiscal plans in the Budget. She has been very clear that the Budget will protect the NHS, reduce the cost of living and reduce the national debt. We will continue to rebuild the economy after 14 years of failure from the party opposite.

Inheritance Tax: Pensions

Baroness Neville-Rolfe Excerpts

Monday 17th November 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

More importantly, what would I say to the noble Baroness? I would say that she is saying things that are completely misleading. As I have said already, estates will continue to benefit from all the normal nil-rate bands, reliefs and exemptions available, so an estate can pass on up to £1 million with no inheritance tax, and spouses are fully exempt from inheritance tax. It is also important to say that we have equal treatment here. There is equal treatment for inheritance tax purposes between pension and non-pension assets, and I think that is perfectly fair within the system.

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

My Lords, I speak as someone whose relatives have struggled for years, rather than months, in coping with the probate system, partly because of the problems caused by the inefficiencies of the probate office. Executors will not be able to deal with the extra complexity of adding pensions to IHT, particularly those with lots of small pension pots. My noble friend Lady Altmann, in her submission to our Finance Bill Sub-Committee, has suggested a simpler mechanism for dealing with this and raising the necessary revenue. Will the Government examine this sympathetically?

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

I presume the noble Baroness is referring to the proposal of the noble Baroness, Lady Altmann, for a flat tax, and it is very interesting that she raises that. Currently, fewer than 10% of estates will have an inheritance tax liability. If you put a flat tax on all pensions, you are asking 90% of estates to pay more so that 10% of estates can pay less. I do not consider that to be fair.

Economic and Taxation Policies: Jobs, Growth and Prosperity

Baroness Neville-Rolfe Excerpts

Thursday 13th November 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

My Lords, I also start by thanking my noble friend Lord Elliott of Mickle Fell for initiating this debate so compellingly and I echo his tribute to Lord Desai.

I agree with so much of what he said about the importance of growth—dismal again today—the disastrous effect of high energy prices, the need to remove regulatory obstacles to employment and the devastating effect of high taxation on enterprise culture and competitiveness. As the noble Lord, Lord Liddle, said, it was a balanced speech. It was good to hear the latter’s support for welfare reform and for sorting out the nonsense of the day-one rights in the Employment Rights Bill. Let us hope that happens.

It is helpful to look at the broad picture first. Sometimes implicitly, the debate has touched on two linked economic hypotheses, both of them relevant to how we run the economy and the level of tax. The first, touched on by my noble friend Lord Massey of Hampstead and reflected in the request from my noble friend Lord Frost for reversal, is that there is a level of overall taxation, in terms of a percentage of GDP, beyond which extra tax becomes ever more injurious and disincentivising, hence economically undesirable. Economists note that the current level of taxation in the UK is very high by historic standards. Many conclude that the UK has reached the stage where this hypothesis is becoming increasingly true.

The second hypothesis, touched on by my noble friends Lord Petitgas and Lady Meyer, states that high levels of national debt, judged as a percentage of GDP, is a bad thing. Unfortunately, UK debt now stands at around 100% of GDP—a very high level for peacetime. It holds that the responsible thing for the Government to do, when faced with high levels of debt, is to reduce it, not least since high levels of debt reduce the effectiveness of responses to outside shocks such as Covid.

Under this Government, we have a very high level of national debt and taxation, both of which ought to be decreased, but on present plans will increase. The only way to square this circle is to reduce national expenditure. Yet, as my noble friends Lady Stedman-Scott and Lord Young of Cookham have said, the Government’s own review of PIP is looking at no savings at all. We need welfare reform and, indeed, a single-minded determination to get expenditure down, in the words of my noble friend Lord Horam, who recalled a former Conservative Prime Minister. My noble friend Lord Harper said raising income tax to pay for welfare was not a wise way forward.

If they were responsible, the Government would be planning to reduce expenditure to improve the fiscal position. But, alas, all the signs are that this is as likely as finding a man on the moon. Britain is living beyond its means, locked in a doom loop of high spend, high debt and high taxes.

There were some interesting new thoughts in the debate. My noble friend Lord Howard of Lympne emphasised the importance of microeconomics and the the fascinating lessons of his firm Direct Special Measures in improving our jobcentres. My noble friend Lord Howell of Guildford talked about how Germany has been dealing with the fiscal challenges. It was also a pleasure to hear again the creative thinking of my noble friend Lord Saatchi and to hear from my noble friend Lord Kempsell, who noted that no one in the Cabinet has run a business, as of course many people in this House have done.

I turn to taxation, so eloquently addressed by one such person, the noble Baroness, Lady Noakes. According to the international index published last month by the Tax Foundation, the UK now ranks 32nd out of 38 OECD countries for tax competitiveness. In the G7 it is ahead of only Italy and France. This is not a good place to be. As another former businesswoman, I can confirm from experience that high rates of corporation tax affect investment decisions and that investors go where such taxes are low—just look at Ireland’s success.

The Government are keen to paint a picture in which the state of the economy is everyone else’s fault, but business leaders and the public know that the situation we are in is substantially a consequence of the Government’s own decisions. They started by claiming that growth was their overriding priority, which I supported, but quickly lost credibility with last year’s Budget decisions, notably on NICs, IHT—we heard from the noble Baroness, Lady Foster, about its devasting effect on rural communities—and, of course, the Employment Rights Bill.

It is obvious that, if professionals and innovators see a large share of each additional pound going to the tax man, their incentive to expand businesses or move to Britain diminishes. We can look at international examples as a cautionary tale. France’s experiment with a tax on top earners a decade ago led to an exodus of talent and embarrassment for the Government. We have ourselves seen a huge exit of the wealthy since the election. As the noble Lord, Lord Petitgas, said, some of those leaving are younger people, including members of my own family.

We need to find a way to reverse the incentives to move to Dubai, Singapore, the US or Gibraltar—which we heard about from the noble Lord, Lord Wharton. However, these Benches all agree that taxes on exit would be a disaster and lead to further problems.

In addition to the fiscal damage done to our economy, it is clear from the debate that the regulatory changes being introduced in the form of legislation, such as the Employment Rights Bill, are set to harm working people even further and discourage hiring. The Government themselves estimate that the Bill alone would add almost £5billion a year in costs to businesses, killing growth in the SME sector, which bears the highest burden, as my noble friend Lord Leigh said. The noble Baroness, Lady Kramer, is also very sound on this point about SMEs and we very much agree that it is a vital consideration. Many, including my noble friend Lady Fall, spoke about the problems in the labour market and the recent rise in the unemployment rate to 5%. His Majesty’s Opposition are clear that the Employment Rights Bill should be rewritten.

Unfortunately, this comes on top of other increases such as in business rates and in NICs—£25 billion— new environmental charges of various kinds, large increases in the national living wage at the same time, and energy costs, as my noble friend Lord Elliott emphasised, which are four times as high as they are in US and seven times as high as China’s. My noble friend Lord Trenchard talked of the impact of this growing pattern of regulation on investors such as Japan, and my noble friend Lord Risby made a compelling case for the devastating effect on SMEs, on which I have already touched.

We on this side of the House are clear that economic prosperity comes from productivity and growth, not from ever-higher taxes. Increased productivity is the foundation of raising wages and living standards. My noble friend Lord Elliott’s excellent book is worth reading for the number of policies that he sets out.

Another problem we have with productivity is the sheer size of the Civil Service, which is less productive than the private sector, employing 384,000 before the pandemic and 516,000 today.

The shadow Chancellor set out a menu of £47 billion in savings last month, without hitting most of the capital investment that the Minister so often cites, That includes the SMRs in north Wales that were announced today, which I also welcome. Mel Stride’s menu is the path to faster growth and higher productivity.

My noble friend Lord Bridges rightly registered our disappointment that the promise in the Chancellor’s Mais Lecture of a “fundamental course correction” for the British economy has not been delivered and said that the Chancellor has lost control of spending. To respond to the noble Lord, Lord Eatwell, we are clear that fiscal responsibility means honesty, consistency and transparency, but we have had none of this from the Chancellor.

I look forward to the Minister’s answers to some of these challenging questions, but the evidence is clear: since the election of July 2024, the trajectory of economic policy has tilted towards higher taxes and greater regulatory burdens, and it is clear that we are going to have more of both. This path is fraught with dangers for jobs, growth and prosperity in Britain. The record-high tax burden is squeezing businesses and households and risking a downturn in economic activity. A Budget that prioritises growth and productivity and reduces regulation would set Britain back on the path to rising incomes and expanding opportunity. That is what is needed.

Cryptocurrencies: US Regulation

Baroness Neville-Rolfe Excerpts

Wednesday 12th November 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

Possibly, but I do not at all share the characterisation made by my noble friend of a regulatory race to the bottom. As I have said, we will regulate in the UK’s national interest. The Government will bring forward the final legislation to create a financial services regulator regime for crypto assets this year. Clearly, we must strike the right balance between giving firms regulatory certainty, protecting consumers and ensuring that the sector has the space and flexibility to innovate.

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

My Lords, these markets are global. Can the Minister tell us what contingency plans the Bank of England and the Treasury have in place should a major crypto company in the US collapse, with consequences for UK savers and markets, now as well as once the legislation has gone through? When we last discussed this subject, the Minister helpfully agreed that the Government might present a discussion paper, which would help us all. When might we expect that, given the pace of change in this important area?

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

I am grateful to the noble Baroness for her question. As she knows, the Bank of England is the independent regulator for systemic stablecoin and will design its regime as necessary to manage the associated risks. On 10 November, just earlier this week, the Bank of England launched a consultation to seek industry feedback on its systemic stablecoin regime, building on the initial proposals set out in its 2023 discussion paper. This includes up to 60% of backing assets to be held in short-term sterling-denominated UK Government debt securities, consistent with emerging regulatory regimes internationally, and the proposed cap of between £10,000 to £20,000 for individuals and £10 million for businesses applying for systemic stablecoins and only after consultation. The Treasury and the Bank of England are maintaining a close and ongoing dialogue on the legal and regulatory treatment of stablecoins in support of the Government’s objective to make the UK a global destination for digital assets. In terms of any wider discussion paper, I am very happy to continue discussing that point.

National Insurance: Partnerships

Baroness Neville-Rolfe Excerpts

Monday 10th November 2025 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the Centre for the Analysis of Taxation’s proposal for increasing the National Insurance rate on partnerships, and of the impact of such an increase.

[The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord Livermore) (Lab)]

My Lords, the Government do not comment on tax speculation outside of fiscal events. The Chancellor will set out the Government’s fiscal plans at the forthcoming Budget.

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

My Lords, given that professional services contribute some 12% to GDP, and that almost all the UK’s leading accountancy and law firms operate as LLPs, has the Minister examined the potential for unintended consequences such as increased incorporation or outsourcing, which could reduce, rather than increase, the overall tax take? I originally tabled this Question to probe the bad but rumoured idea of taxing GP partnerships in this way. Can the Minister at least rule that out?

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

I am grateful to the noble Baroness for her question. However, she knows that I am not going to speculate or give a running commentary on the next Budget now. There has been much speculation, as is usual ahead of a Budget. A lot of that speculation is irresponsible. I am not going to comment on individual tax measures now. We will do things in the usual way. The Chancellor has asked the OBR to produce a new forecast. She will make decisions based on that forecast. We will set out our fiscal plans at the forthcoming Budget. The Chancellor will do so mindful of the importance of growth and investment to businesses and the economy.

Public and Private Sector Productivity Trends

Baroness Neville-Rolfe Excerpts

Thursday 30th October 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

I am grateful to the noble Baroness for her question. I agree. Fundamental skills are vital to improving our productivity. Labour quality is a key driver of productivity. The skills agenda is vital to that. That is why we recently set out measures to tackle that in the skills White Paper. I hope the measures she speaks about will also be looked at carefully.

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

My Lords, I very much agree on skills, but a large part of the productivity problem in the UK has been in the public sector. This is hardly surprising, since the Government awarded huge public sector pay rises last year without a direct productivity link. Civil service numbers have also increased. Low productivity and growing headcount are not a happy state of affairs. How does the Minister plan to improve that rather dispiriting situation?

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

The noble Baroness is correct to say that public sector productivity is a major issue. I know that it is something she cares about deeply. Obviously, she will be aware that the Government inherited a situation where public sector productivity was 7.2% below pre-pandemic levels; that is obviously and clearly unacceptable. She said that pay rises were awarded without any link to productivity. That is factually incorrect. At the spending review, the Government established a programme of public sector service reform to drive greater productivity. Every department has committed to at least 5% savings and efficiencies over the spending review period, with the Office for Value for Money working closely with departments to agree bespoke targets. This will result in savings and efficiencies equivalent to nearly £14 billion a year by 2028-29, and public sector productivity has already risen by 1.5% since the election.

Rules on Duty-Free Goods

Baroness Neville-Rolfe Excerpts

Wednesday 22nd October 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

I am sure my noble friend and I agree on many things, but Brexit is not one of them. I hope that when he talks about our experience in the European Union he will acknowledge the OBR’s calculations that, had we remained in the European Union, by the end of this Parliament the economy would be £100 billion larger than it will be otherwise. That is a significant disbenefit of Brexit. As my noble friend knows, the manifesto stands.

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

My Lords, returning to the Question, we on these Benches fully recognise the importance of the agreements reached between the previous Administration and the European Union. However, there is a legitimate question about whether practical solutions could now be explored to address the specific anomaly. Will the Minister consider supporting a joint UK-EU technical group to examine practical options for restoring duty-free parity for Northern Ireland travellers, which could overcome the difficulties the Minister outlined? That process could be undertaken without undermining the Windsor Framework.

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

Let me be absolutely clear, again. If you have duty-free, you have to have allowances. If you have allowances, you have to have checks and enforcement. If you have checks, you have to have border infrastructure, and if you have border infrastructure, that will be contrary to the Windsor Framework and the Good Friday agreement.

GDP Per Capita

Baroness Neville-Rolfe Excerpts

Monday 20th October 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

The noble Lord is absolutely correct. That is currently a significant issue. As I understand it, the ONS is reviewing that data, and that review is ongoing.

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

My Lords, per capita GDP is, of course, a proxy for productivity in the longer run, and I am very concerned that productivity has become an increasing problem for the UK economy. What do the Government plan to do about it, in both the public sector and the private sector?

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

The noble Baroness is absolutely correct to say that productivity is a long-standing problem in the economy. As I understand it, productivity fell to the lowest in the G7 under the previous Government, so clearly it is important that we have prioritised that. One of the most important things we are doing for productivity is increasing investment in our economy. We have revised the fiscal rules to enable us to increase investment in the economy, and I regret very much that the party opposite opposed those changes to the fiscal rules.