Baroness Neville-Rolfe
Main Page: Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Conservative - Life peer)Consumer Rights Bill
Baroness Neville-Rolfe Excerpts
Baroness Neville-Rolfe
That this House do not insist on its Amendment 12, to which the Commons have disagreed for their Reason 12A, but do propose Amendments 12B to 12H in lieu—
“CHAPTER 3B
SECONDARY TICKETING
Duty to report criminal activity
(1) This section applies where—
(a) an operator of a secondary ticketing facility knows that a person has used or is using the facility in such a way that an offence has been or is being committed, and
(b) the offence relates to the re-sale of a ticket for a recreational, sporting or cultural event in the United Kingdom.
(2) The operator must, as soon as the operator becomes aware that a person has used or is using the facility as mentioned in subsection (1), disclose the matters specified in subsection (3) to—
(a) an appropriate person, and
(b) an organiser of the event (subject to subsection (5)).
(3) Those matters are—
(a) the identity of the person mentioned in subsection (1), if this is known to the operator, and
(b) the fact that the operator knows that an offence has been or is being committed as mentioned in that subsection.
(4) The following are appropriate persons for the purposes of this section—
(a) a constable of a police force in England and Wales,
(b) a constable of the police service of Scotland, and
(c) a police officer within the meaning of the Police (Northern Ireland) Act 2000.
(5) This section does not require an operator to make a disclosure to an organiser of an event if the operator has reasonable grounds for believing that to do so will prejudice the investigation of any offence.
(6) References in this section to an offence are to an offence under the law of any part of the United Kingdom.
(7) This section applies only in relation to an offence of which an operator becomes aware after the coming into force of this section.”
“SECONDARY TICKETING: FINANCIAL PENALTIES
Notice of intent1 (1) Before imposing a financial penalty on a person for a breach of the duty imposed by section (Duty to report criminal activity), an enforcement authority must serve a notice on the person of its proposal to do so (a “notice of intent”).
(2) The notice of intent must be served before the end of the period of 6 months beginning with the first day on which the authority has sufficient evidence of the person’s breach, subject to sub-paragraph (3).
(3) If the person is in breach of the duty on that day, and the breach continues beyond the end of that day, the notice of intent may be served—
(a) at any time when the breach is continuing, or
(b) within the period of 6 months beginning with the last day on which the breach occurs.
(4) The notice of intent must set out—
(a) the amount of the proposed financial penalty,
(b) the reasons for proposing to impose the penalty, and
(c) information about the right to make representations under paragraph 2.
Right to make representations2 A person on whom a notice of intent is served may, within the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice was sent, make written representations to the enforcement authority about the proposal to impose a financial penalty on the person.
Final notice3 (1) After the end of the period mentioned in paragraph 2 the enforcement authority must—
(a) decide whether to impose a financial penalty on the person, and
(b) if it decides to do so, decide the amount of the penalty.
(2) If the authority decides to impose a financial penalty on the person, it must serve a notice on the person (a “final notice”) imposing that penalty.
(3) The final notice must require the penalty to be paid within the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice was sent.
(4) The final notice must set out—
(a) the amount of the financial penalty,
(b) the reasons for imposing the penalty,
(c) information about how to pay the penalty,
(d) the period for payment of the penalty,
(e) information about rights of appeal, and
(f) the consequences of failure to comply with the notice.
Withdrawal or amendment of notice4 (1) The enforcement authority may at any time—
(a) withdraw a notice of intent or final notice, or
(b) reduce the amount specified in a notice of intent or final notice.
(2) The power in sub-paragraph (1) is to be exercised by giving notice in writing to the person on whom the notice was served.
Appeals5 (1) A person on whom a final notice is served may appeal against that notice—
(a) in England and Wales and Scotland, to the First-tier Tribunal;
(b) in Northern Ireland, to a county court.
(2) The grounds for an appeal under this paragraph are that—
(a) the decision to impose a financial penalty was based on an error of fact,
(b) the decision was wrong in law,
(c) the amount of the financial penalty is unreasonable, or
(d) the decision was unreasonable for any other reason.
(3) If a person appeals under this paragraph, the final notice is suspended until the appeal is finally determined or withdrawn.
(4) On an appeal under this paragraph the First-tier Tribunal or the court may quash, confirm or vary the final notice.
(5) The final notice may not be varied under sub-paragraph (4) so as to make it impose a financial penalty of more than £5,000.
Recovery of financial penalty6 (1) This paragraph applies if a person does not pay the whole or any part of a financial penalty which, in accordance with this Schedule, the person is liable to pay.
(2) In England and Wales the local weights and measures authority which imposed the financial penalty may recover the penalty or part on the order of the county court as if it were payable under an order of that court.
(3) In Scotland the penalty may be enforced in the same manner as an extract registered decree arbitral bearing a warrant for execution issued by the sheriff court of any sheriffdom in Scotland.
(4) In Northern Ireland the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Investment may recover the penalty or part on the order of a county court as if it were payable under an order of that court.
(5) In proceedings before the court for the recovery of a financial penalty or part of a financial penalty, a certificate which is—
(a) signed by the chief finance officer of the local weights and measures authority which imposed the penalty or (as the case may be) issued by the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Investment, and
(b) states that the amount due has not been received by a date specified in the certificate,
is conclusive evidence of that fact.
(6) A certificate to that effect and purporting to be so signed or issued is to be treated as being so signed or issued unless the contrary is proved.
(7) A local weights and measures authority may use the proceeds of a financial penalty for the purposes of any of its functions (whether or not the function is expressed to be a function of a local weights and measures authority).
(8) In this paragraph “chief finance officer” has the same meaning as in section 5 of the Local Government and Housing Act 1989.”
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (Baroness Neville-Rolfe) (Con)
My Lords, we are coming to the final stages of the Consumer Rights Bill—an important reform of consumer law. I am looking forward to it receiving Royal Assent so that consumers have new, simplified rights when they buy goods, services or digital content and businesses can plan with certainty for the legislation to come into force.
The one remaining issue to resolve is the proposals for the secondary ticketing market. I would like to start by thanking those who have engaged in a really constructive dialogue with us over the past few weeks: the noble Lord, Lord Moynihan, and his team, other noble Lords, clerks of the House and the long-suffering departmental teams, both ministerial and official. It has been a long two months since we last debated the issue and I thought it would be helpful to give a summary of the issue and the Government’s proposals. Before I start, it may be helpful to make clear to noble Lords that I intend to support the amendment tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Moynihan, to facilitate the smooth passage of this important Bill.
The amendment to the Bill made by noble Lords at Report stage demonstrated the House’s concern about some aspects of the online secondary ticketing market. A range of issues were raised. The noble Lords, Lord Moynihan and Lord Grade, and others drew our attention to the level of fraud in the market, which was suggested by the National Fraud Authority to be £1.5 billion per year. The noble Baroness, Lady Grey-Thompson, and other noble Lords gave heart-wrenching examples of fans arriving at a venue looking forward to a wonderful evening only to be turned away because they had bought counterfeit tickets. They argued that the current rules in place to protect consumers were not effective enough.
The noble Baroness, Lady Heyhoe Flint, the noble Lords, Lord Clement-Jones and Lord Deben, and others had done their own research into tickets available on the secondary market and expressed concern about the lack of transparency. The noble Lords, Lord Holmes and Lord Moynihan, and others were concerned that alleged profiteering might be taking funding away from sports or cultural activity and reducing opportunities for genuine fans who could not afford high prices.
The noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, and the noble Lord, Lord Holmes, have been especially keen to resolve this issue as part of the Consumer Rights Bill, in order to allow fans to access events and have similar protection to that used for the London 2012 Olympics.
Of course, many of those who spoke, including the noble Lords, Lord Stoneham and Lord Borwick, the noble Viscount, Lord Younger, and the noble Baroness, Lady Wilcox, agreed with me about the importance of a thriving secondary ticket market and the need to ensure that the market remains open and competitive. I think that that sentiment is shared more widely across the House. The secondary marketplaces can provide a much safer environment for people to buy and sell tickets than other methods. If we can further increase confidence in the service that they can offer, I would hope to see their business flourish and grow.
The Government have been working hard to address the issues in the market. They are not easy issues, and we have been wary of unintended consequences at every turn. We have had to make some very difficult decisions, based on an uncomfortable evidence base. We have given the matter much attention and we now need to reach a conclusion.
The Government have tabled amendments to address some of these issues. The noble Lord, Lord Moynihan, has included our provisions in the most recent draft of his amendment. Our amendments are in two parts. First, we propose a statutory review of the secondary ticketing market. This will be a full review of consumer protection measures in the market. It will be independently led and it will be presented to Parliament. It will start this summer and must report within a year of the start date.
We need time to consult stakeholders and the individual leading the review before deciding on the detailed terms of reference and I know that noble Lords will want to express opinions on the matter. However, I can say that the review will broadly cover the following areas.
First, there will be an assessment of the current law and the changes we are making today. Noble Lords have rightly asked which laws apply to online ticket sales, and how effectively they are enforced. Secondly, it will cover business models in the market. Speakers in our debates have asked whether the market is dominated by consumer sellers or by traders; whether those in the market are seeking profits or mainly seeking to recoup their original costs; and whether national interests are supported. Thirdly, on access to tickets, I fully understand how frustrating it can be for tickets to sell out suspiciously quickly after release. The review will look at this, including the possibility that event organisers might deliberately restrict access to tickets to inflate prices artificially.
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)
My Lords, I see no reason why the noble Baroness, Lady Heyhoe Flint, should not feel triumphant. I think that is the right approach, and I join her and others in thanking the noble Lord, Lord Moynihan, who has done so much to bring us here, and also, as others have said, the Bill team; the sports and arts bodies; my colleague Nicola Jayawickreme, who has seen us through this; my noble friend Lord Stevenson, who alas is in a jungle today and cannot be with us; my gig-attending honourable friend Stella Creasy, who fought this much more alone, I have to say, in the other place; and also, if rather at the wire, the Government.
However, given that this will affect some of our premier sports, perhaps that final spurt, the holding of our collective breath till the very last moment when the line was crossed, and the smiles and cheers at the Minister’s words are particularly appropriate. Indeed, had the Minister sung her speech, that would have reflected as well the arts world’s relief that sense has prevailed and that genuine fans of music or sports will have access to the best without having to witness only those with the deepest pockets being able to pay to see the best of British performers, whether on the track or on the stage.
Furthermore, the money paid by fans will now, we hope, go to the promoters or the performers but will not be skimmed off by those who buy tickets purely to make excess rent, in the economic jargon. This was never an issue of individual fans wanting to sell the odd ticket they could no longer use. It is, as has been said, about industrial-scale touting—the buying up of sheaves of tickets to make a quick bang—and it is that that Motion A1 seeks to address.
We know that the Government had strongly resisted until almost the very last moment Motion A1 and all attempts to tackle an industry that makes a few people very rich but sucks money not just from fans but from sports and arts bodies—those that want to keep prices within the reach of all, not just the rich, so that ordinary rugby club members can go to Twickenham, tennis players to Wimbledon and music fans to their favourite gigs.
I remember that some years ago Paul Hamlyn opened the opera house—I think to celebrate his wife’s birthday—simply to groups of young people or community groups. I took 20 people there who would never have gone into the opera house without this. I will remember their faces, I think, for as long as I live, and the delight they had. I think they paid £10 a seat. In today’s world, with today’s methods, all those tickets would have been hoovered up and all those people denied that wonderful chance to go there.
Today the Government have accepted that it is time to deal with that industry, and we are delighted. There are of course issues not yet covered by the Motion, but these can fall to the review to consider. I hope the Minister can assure us that both sporting and arts representatives will be consulted on the choice of chair as well as on the terms of reference so that we learn from other inquiries. To add to the mix that has already been mentioned, I also ask that the Government consider for the review research into the impact of touting on fans and events, the effects it has in terms of pricing out ordinary fans and the wider reputation damage to events. They should also consider actions on bots, which have been explained to us, and enforcement of existing legislation; also, what constitutes a ticket—is it a piece of paper or is it the right to attend an event? Finally, they should consider whether the ticket identification number needs to be added to those tickets where there is no block, row or seat number.
Today, as the noble Viscount, Lord Younger, suggested, shows a job well done by your Lordships’ House. This final change will strengthen the Consumer Rights Bill. I think it is a triumph for the rights of consumers, in this case in the guise of fans and supporters. We wish the whole Bill well as it gets its final sign-off from the other place.
Baroness Neville-Rolfe
Before the noble Lord, Lord Moynihan, responds, perhaps, rather than repeating them, I will say that I share the many tributes that have been made during this debate to and by the noble Lord, Lord Moynihan. They have been made by the noble Lords, Lord Clement-Jones, Lord Stoneham and Lord Holmes, the noble Baronesses, Lady Heyhoe Flint and Lady Hayter, and the noble Lord, Lord Pendry, with his deep knowledge of the football world. On his question, the Bill provides for the measure to come into force two months after Royal Assent—so ahead of the Ashes and the Rugby World Cup, I hope.
I am also grateful for the points made by my predecessor, my noble friend Lord Younger, who did so much for enforcement of IP and the battle against counterfeiting. I will take away his various ideas, notably for dealing with fraud, and look forward to discussing his questions with him and feeding them into the review. I was also interested in his reference to sunsetting, which is one of the ideas that we look at in our Better Regulation work in the business department.
My noble friend Lord Borwick raised two important issues relating to how the amendments affect the secondary market in terms of employment and market share. As has been said, we have yet to set the terms of reference for the review, but I assure him that those issues will be considered for inclusion. He also expressed the concern that the amendment might criminalise consumers who give incorrect information. I reassure him that it will not introduce any criminal offences; the enforcement is but by civil penalties.
I can confirm that the blanket protection on ticket resale of the kind cited by the noble Lord, Lord Stoneham, is not provided for in the amendment. I reiterate what I said earlier on this important point: terms that prohibit or restrict resale above a particular price are assessable for fairness. They are not always fair and are not binding on the consumer if that is the case.
This is, of course, a compromise provision. The Government were not willing to jeopardise the passage of the Consumer Rights Bill. Therefore, while we share some of the concerns raised about how the industry could interpret the new legislation, it is up to it to show that it treats all fans fairly and to make these changes a success. We have a statutory review, which will be an opportunity to look at this matter and at many of the issues debated today. I know that this House will be very interested in the results of the review and that many noble Lords will feed in their thoughts and ideas. I should make it clear, as the noble Lord, Lord Moynihan, touched on the subject, that the review is a joint one between the DCMS and BIS—the reviewer is to be appointed jointly by the two Secretaries of State. I note the various points made by the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, and will take them away to ensure that we have the right independent chair and the right terms of reference.
I thank noble Lords for their expert scrutiny of the Bill, and in particular for the provisions we are discussing today. I look forward to the Bill receiving Royal Assent.
Lord Moynihan
My Lords, I express my further thanks to all noble Lords who have participated in this debate on what is, as has been rightly pointed out, a compromise provision. For the avoidance of doubt on the part of one or two speakers who may not have fully appreciated it, all those who have spoken in favour of this Motion reiterated that it is very important for a secondary market to thrive. We are looking through this Motion for an effective, transparent and accountable secondary market. I appreciate in all humility the generous personal comments that have been made and ask the House to agree to the Motion standing in my name.