Baroness Morgan of Ely
Main Page: Baroness Morgan of Ely (Labour - Life peer)Trade Union Bill
Baroness Morgan of Ely Excerpts“(2EA) Regulations under subsection (2D) may not specify services that fall within any of the following categories—
(a) health services provided in Wales;(b) education provided in Wales for those aged under 17;(c) fire services in Wales; and(d) transport services in Wales falling within paragraph 10 of Schedule 7 to the Government of Wales Act 2006 (highways and transport).”
Baroness Morgan of Ely (Lab)
I thank noble Lords for that lovely welcome. The amendments in this group explore the impacts of the Bill on the devolved Administrations of the United Kingdom. Noble Lords will know that we live in a country which has four distinct legislatures: bodies that are responsible for legislating and administrating in distinct parts of the United Kingdom. The devolved structures and powers of the Administrations in Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland are very different. The one thing common to them is that many public services, including health, education, local government and fire services, are devolved. Many of the services referred to in the Bill relate to public services. Should the Government of the UK be able to legislate in this area, despite the fact that public services are devolved? It is unclear. I warn the Minister that there is a real danger that if the Bill goes through in its current form, it will release a constitutional firestorm which will be much more powerful than anything we have seen today from Storm Imogen.
I am going to concentrate my comments on the issues affecting Wales and I will allow colleagues to pick up on issues relating to the other devolved nations.
Baroness Neville-Rolfe
My Lords, in the tradition of this House, I do not want to close the debate without saying that we are open to further discussion. We are, of course, open to discussing implementation of the Trade Union Bill in Wales and Scotland. To answer, as far as I can, the questions from the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, and the noble Lord, Lord Wigley, my colleague Nick Boles spoke only last week to Roseanna Cunningham, Cabinet Secretary for Fair Work in the Scottish Government, and to Leighton Andrews, Minister for Public Services in the Welsh Government; both “stars” who have already featured in this evening’s debate. Of course, discussions are still going on in the context of the Scotland Bill, which is being scrutinised by a Committee of this House, and the draft Wales Bill, which the Government published in October. They are also part of a complex picture and need to be taken into account.
My Lords, it is late, we have discussed this at length and I ask noble Lords to withdraw their amendments.
Baroness Morgan of Ely
I thank the Minister and noble Lords who have contributed to this debate. I am sure the Minister has felt the pressure and intensity that Members of this House feel about this issue, particularly the devolution settlement, and why that is the issue we have focused on tonight. We have tried carefully not to wander into the area of the substance of the debate; this is really about the constitutional settlement of the United Kingdom. It would have been irresponsible of us in this place not to have drawn the Government’s attention to the fact that they are writing a law here which will be sent to the Supreme Court. That is irresponsible law-making. It is our job to make sure that people understand that that is what will happen if this is pushed through in its current form.
It is really worth underlining two other Bills going through the House at the moment, which the Minister was right to draw attention to: a Scotland Bill and a draft Wales Bill. Both directly contradict what is happening here. I urge the Government to think very carefully about consistency and respect for the devolution settlement, and to make sure that there is an understanding that legislative consent motions should be respected and agreed to.
I also ask the Minister to think carefully when she suggests that this is not relevant because it is employment law. We would argue that it is not simply about employment law but goes much further than that. It is about public services and the right of the devolved institutions to deliver public services in the way that they choose. Will the Minister think very carefully about how we proceed? Please will she look at the legal advice? I am sure she will not want to go down a route which will take us to the Supreme Court. I hope that she will listen to the passion expressed here tonight. We look in particular for her to think carefully about check-off and facility time, and to think again about accepting the amendments we have put forward tonight, but I beg leave to withdraw the amendment in my name.