Conversion Therapy Prohibition (Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity) Bill [HL]

Baroness Meyer Excerpts

Friday 9th February 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Meyer (Con)]

My Lords, I must apologise because much of what I wanted to say has already been said—probably much better than I would say it—but that is the problem of being the 32nd speaker on the list. It also shows that a lot of noble Lords in this House have the same opinion; I am afraid that some of it will be repeated by me.

Many noble Lords have mentioned that the Bill infringes on our fundamental rights, freedom of speech, religious belief and individuals’ right to seek therapy. The Bill is also flawed as it conflates sexual orientation with gender identity. These are different terms that describe very different things. Sexual orientation has a clear definition, but gender identity remains ambiguous; its existence is controversial and contested. How can we ban something that no one has been able to define?

Above all, the Bill will have dangerous and unintended consequences, particularly for children. That is my main concern; I am not the only one in this House with such a concern. In Australia, where such a law has been passed, parents now live in fear of being charged simply for trying to get mental health support for their vulnerable children. In the UK, we hear of therapists being unwilling to see children presenting with gender distress for fear of malicious complaints and professional investigations. If the Bill were to become law, a mother who urges her daughter to think again before taking puberty blockers could be convicted with unlimited fines. As my noble friend Lord Forsyth asked, where do we draw the line on what a parent can say to his or her child?

In short, the Bill will force people to simply nod along with whatever a child with gender dysphoria says. This would let down vulnerable children who need to talk through their mental state and emotions properly, rather than being mindlessly put on a path that may not be the right thing for them. We know that, during puberty, many children feel that they do not conform to sex stereotypes, but that does not mean that the feeling will last. Many studies confirm that gender dysphoria does not persist in most children past puberty. Some children feel at odds with their body as a result of sexual abuse, autism, bullying or any multitude of social and psychological problems. These children need help rather than embarking on life-changing and irreversible surgery, with enormous health risks.

Nothing exemplifies this better than Keira Bell’s experiences, as my noble friend Lady Eaton mentioned. She was put on puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones when she was an adolescent. At 20, she underwent a double mastectomy. But none of these procedures helped her. Instead, she became more depressed as blockers stopped her periods and sent her into menopause, and the surgery only made it clear that she could never achieve what she had fantasised about as a child. As she says, it was nothing more than a conveyor belt.

At 22, she decided to detransition. Today, 5 years on, she is living in constant turmoil, struggling to reintegrate into society as a woman with a man’s voice, facial and bodily hair, and no breast. What she needed was therapy, support and time to come to terms with her body. Instead, her body was mutilated. She said: “If only someone had provided me with therapy and thoroughly explored my thoughts when I was a teenager—I could have been spared the trauma and I could now be living a much happier and fulfilling life”. As noble Lords can imagine, she is strongly opposed to this Bill. She argues that it would reinforce the gender-affirming care that let her down so badly.

This is why, as well meaning as the intention behind it may be, I oppose the Bill and urge everyone in this House to oppose it as well.

Downing Street Parties: Police Investigation

Baroness Meyer Excerpts

Tuesday 25th January 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord True (Con)]

I agree with what the noble Baroness has said, and I can certainly give her the assurance that the work of governing is continuing. I do note that people on the Benches opposite are extremely distracted by their perusal of social media. But on the first point, she will understand that I cannot comment on the judgments that are being made in the courts or any individual cases, but obviously, I hear what she is saying.

[Baroness Meyer (Con)]

My Lords, the Prime Minister has apologised several times and has shown that he understands the public’s indignation. Does my noble friend not agree that, until the investigations are conducted, we should better concentrate on more important issues such as Ukraine and the NIP, and instead of destabilising the Government we should all work together and move forward?

[Noble Lords]

Oh!

House of Lords Appointments Commission

Baroness Meyer Excerpts

Monday 6th September 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Meyer (Con)]

My Lords, the old saying goes that hard cases make bad law. I would like to paraphrase that a little and say that lone cases make bad law. It appears that we are having this debate today because the Prime Minister chose to ignore a recommendation from the House of Lords Appointments Commission as to the fitness of a certain noble Member to join our ranks. In some quarters, this has raised a terrible stink because the Prime Minister has, shock-horror, exercised his powers of patronage. In our political universe, if anyone should have powers of patronage it is surely the Prime Minister, the democratically elected Member for Uxbridge and South Ruislip, elevated to the leadership of his party by a vote of its members and elected Prime Minister by a stonking majority by the people of this country. Against this background, the notion that he should be stopped from deciding who to send to this House by placing an unelected commission on a statutory basis is using a sledgehammer to crack a nut—and a poorly aimed one at that.

The day will come when we are reformed, though it is unclear how. That will be the moment to consider these things. In the meantime, does my noble friend the Minister not agree that it would be better to let sleeping dogs lie?

Ministerial and other Maternity Allowances Bill

Baroness Meyer Excerpts

Committee stage & Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard) & Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Thursday 25th February 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB) [V]]

My Lords, I am glad to be following the noble Lord, Lord Wallace of Saltaire. I welcome the Government accepting amending the Bill. I listened very carefully to the very wise words of the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, today and the comprehensive tutorial on development from the noble Lord, Lord Winston.

This Bill concerns maternity allowances for Ministers. For a group to be protected by the law, they must be properly identified in the law, and all I would like to say is that I feel that this amendment is a start.

[Baroness Meyer (Con)]

My Lords, I too warmly welcome the Government’s decision to accept my noble friend Lord Lucas’s amendments. I join everyone in this House who in the last debate offered the Attorney-General their best wishes. Having a child is one of the most magical moments in a woman’s life and it is right that a Minister should be allowed to take maternity leave.

I particularly thank the Minister for his understanding and his realisation that many women felt offended. I also thank the noble Baroness, Lady Noakes, who, as the noble Lord, Lord Winston, would say, had the testosterone to start this most important debate.

It would have been ironic if, having spent years as a commodity broker, asserting myself and my rights as a woman in a male-dominated environment, I had found that 30 years later women had become a neutral object, neither man nor woman but a person. This is the ideology of the madhouse—or, to put it another way, we might as well have declared that biology was to be struck from the school curriculum. It is a plain fact of human existence that only women can become pregnant and that therefore this piece of legislation could not have been gender neutral. It would have amounted to acquiescing to the obsessive “woke” culture infesting so many aspects of our lives.

There is another issue. As my noble friend Lord Cormack and others pointed out, it is also a matter of language. English is not my mother tongue—or maybe I should say my “person’s tongue”. In fact, it is my third language. Maybe it is for that reason that I appreciate its beauty, its richness and, compared to other European languages I know, its greater flexibility. English is a language that adapts itself to law, to business and to humour better than most others. That is why so many want to learn English. Our schools and universities are a huge source of income and soft power.

Things have moved on a lot since the gender-neutral protocol in 2013 but not all for the better. We are on a slippery slope towards the complete debasement of our language. As the noble Lord, Lord Hunt of Kings Heath, said in his passionate speeches, words and phrases such as “chestfeeders”, “birthing bodies” and “menstruators”—my autocorrect does not even recognise that last one—are truly unacceptable. I am not sure whether many foreigners will want to continue sending their children to learn English in the UK if we allow this kind of gender derangement to run riot through our language. It is bad enough to see grammatical mistakes, even commonly on the BBC, but corrupting the English language to this extent and demeaning women with reference to a gender-neutral person was just a step too far. I am delighted that the word “person” has been changed and will be “mother” in the Bill. Let us not continue down this dangerous path.

[Lord Morris of Aberavon (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, it is right both that we get the wording in legislation right and that no offence is caused. The problem is that what was acceptable yesterday is not necessarily acceptable today. I very much welcome the helpful stance taken so early in the debate by the noble Lord, Lord True, on behalf of the Government, and I hope that will relieve anxiety.

I once caused offence to a colleague in your Lordships’ House in a short intervention because I used the word “man” on two occasions and she forgot that I had used “persons” on three occasions in the same speech. It was a no-win situation. A distinguished law professor at my first university, long before my time, used to say that according to the Interpretation Act 1889, the word “man” embraced “woman”. I have not looked that up and I do not know how relevant it would be today.

What is important, as the Minister said at Second Reading, is that the Labour Government in 2007 and successive Governments have sought to avoid gender-specific pronouns and usages in drafting legislation. I do not think we should overthrow that legislation. I hope the Minister has met the concerns expressed by the mover of the first amendment. The Committee will not mind my reminding it that when there is a departure from the traditional wording by parliamentary draftsmen, the courts are minded to probe deeply into the possibility of different meanings. Taking on board the observations of the Minister, I venture to advise the Committee of the dangers of departing from traditional drafting. Concern about any particular word or words should be looked at, not in this Bill but rather in a review of drafting practice more generally. That is the right place to ensure that we keep our drafting up to date.

I add that, further to the Minister’s speech at Second Reading, when I introduced the Law Officers Bill in the other place in 1997 there was no restriction whatever on the ability of the Solicitor-General to exercise all the functions of the Attorney-General. He may want to reconsider his remarks to remove any dubiety.

Protocol on Northern Ireland: Disruption to Trade

Baroness Meyer Excerpts

Thursday 14th January 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, the Government have been honest and have not been ideological. My right honourable friend the Prime Minister simply implemented the instructions of the British people—some noble Lords have not yet caught up with that. Goods are flowing effectively between Great Britain and Northern Ireland overall, with more than 1,000 trucks a day. I have acknowledged that there are certain difficulties and issues, but we must not overstate them and we are working pragmatically to address them.

[Baroness Meyer (Con) [V]]

Can the Minister reassure the House that nothing in the Northern Ireland protocol will prevent Northern Ireland businesses taking advantage of the UK’s new trade agreements? Can he also confirm that its businesses will not suffer any harm resulting from possible tariff retaliation against the EU by states such as the US?

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, I can confirm for my noble friend that Northern Ireland exporters will, as will those in the rest of the United Kingdom, be able to take full advantage of trade deals we strike with third countries. Certainly, we will not be participating in trade wars between third countries.

European Union (Future Relationship) Bill

Baroness Meyer Excerpts

3rd reading & 2nd reading & Committee negatived & 2nd reading (Hansard) & 2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords & 3rd reading (Hansard) & 3rd reading (Hansard): House of Lords & Committee negatived (Hansard) & Committee negatived (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 30th December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Meyer (Con)]

My Lords, I congratulate my noble friend Lord Cavendish of Furness on his valedictory speech. I know that many in this House will miss him, but he will never be forgotten.

I congratulate the Prime Minister, my noble friend Lord Frost and all his team for their steely determination to deliver what is without a doubt a historic deal. The Prime Minister has—I am sure to the shock and bemusement of many in this House—delivered what he had promised all along: a trade deal by the end of the year and no extension of the transition period. He has honoured the result of the referendum and delivered what a majority of the British electorate demanded four and a half long years ago: Brexit.

Divorce can be a bitter affair, especially after a 47-year relationship, but what is extraordinary about this negotiation is that we have achieved a win-win result, no better illustrated than by the fact that both sides are claiming victory. Of course there have been compromises on each side, some painful, but without compromise there can be no agreement. That is why the amendment proposed by the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter of Kentish Town, is for the birds. It would appear that the Labour Party has little experience of international negotiation.

This deal is by any account a truly remarkable achievement—the first ever free trade agreement that the EU has reached based on zero tariffs and zero quota, worth £600 billion. We will recover our independence, no longer be subject to a foreign court and take back control of our own laws. The challenge now is to make the agreement a success. There is no realistic way to go. It is time to stop fighting the referendum campaign over and again—that is a colossal and useless waste of energy. We should concentrate on rebuilding our economy after the ravages of the pandemic, on fortifying our union and on giving real meaning to the vision of global Britain—the global ambition that has been our national instinct and destiny for the last 500 years. It will take hard work, enthusiasm and imagination, but nothing is beyond a nation that believes in itself and is united in pursuit of its goals. This is a bright future to be seized with both hands.

UK-EU Withdrawal Agreement

Baroness Meyer Excerpts

Thursday 10th December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Meyer (Con)]

My Lords, I welcome this agreement, which is a significant breakthrough. However, given that Northern Ireland will continue to follow EU customs rules after 31 December, can my noble friend the Minister confirm that in a case where the ECJ seeks to claim jurisdiction in Northern Ireland, Parliament will if necessary be able to assert sovereignty and authority and overrule the ECJ?

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, Parliament voted in the withdrawal treaty Act to include a section asserting UK sovereignty. As for the specifics of any course of justice or jurisdiction, it will have to follow the appropriate course, in line with the protocol.

EU: Trade and Security Partnership

Baroness Meyer Excerpts

Tuesday 9th June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord True [V]]

My Lords, we are in a negotiation. I will not second-guess what might or might not happen in the course of it. All the areas, including policing and security, which the noble Baroness mentioned, are, of course, important. Those will continue to be the subject of discussions between the Governments.

[Baroness Meyer (Con) [V]]

Given that the EU appears determined to bind the UK into the common fisheries policy and its own rules and standards, does the Minister not agree that there would actually be negotiating advantage in not reaching an agreement before the end of the transition period so that the EU would be forced to accept the reality of the UK as an independent and sovereign state?

[Lord True [V]]

I thank my noble friend for the question, but again, I am not going to second-guess the process of negotiations. I note that, on fish, the political declaration clearly set out that a separate agreement should be enforced in July ahead of the other agreements. The EU, on the other hand, continues to push for one single overarching agreement.