Tobacco and Vapes Bill

Debate between Baroness Merron and Lord Jackson of Peterborough

Committee stage
Tuesday 11th November 2025 Grand Committee

[Baroness Merron (Lab)]

I assure the noble Baroness that there is nothing paper about the exercise that we are undertaking, but I accept her point and I have on previous groups. This is not one size fits all; the issue manifests itself in different ways. I wanted to present an overall national position, but I of course understand. That is why we are looking at regulations and why we have a call for evidence, consultations and an impact assessment, so that we do not uniformly treat all areas the same. It is important that we remind ourselves, as I have done repeatedly, that tobacco is a deadly addiction. Stopping children from starting to smoke is the easiest way to reduce smoking rates, and that is at the core of the Bill.

[Lord Jackson of Peterborough (Con)]

Will the Minister give way? I am trying to be helpful. As the Minister has made some quite fair and emphatic comments about the toxicity of heated tobacco and its lack of efficacy in smoking cessation, would she be so kind as to put that in writing to me in order for members of the Committee to consider that as we go forward in the Bill?

[Baroness Merron (Lab)]

I will be happy to.

On Amendments 135A and 136A, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Johnson, health is a devolved matter, as noble Lords are aware, so the implementation of retail licensing in Northern Ireland is ultimately a matter for the Department of Health in Northern Ireland. However, it is a shared view that it is important that details of our respective retail licensing schemes are informed by adequate consultation with all relevant stakeholders. That is why, in collaboration with the devolved Governments, we have launched a call for evidence that asks detailed questions about a number of matters that noble Lords have rightly raised. It is open until 3 December and asks detailed questions about the implementation of retail licensing, among other topics. I can say to the noble Earl, Lord Howe, and the noble Lord, Lord Johnson, that it asks how a retail licensing scheme can be implemented effectively. We encourage feedback on how existing businesses should be treated specifically, and I hope that responses will come forward.

I remind noble Lords that following the call for evidence there will be a consultation, so there is plenty of opportunity to consider all the important points that have been raised today. For example, we will ask whether there should be any exemptions from needing a licence and whether factors such as restrictions on the location and density of retailers should be features of the scheme. We believe it is important that such decisions are informed by expert views, and it would not be right to prejudge the evidence that we receive by putting in place different rules for one particular type of business, as the amendment suggests.

The absence of a retail licensing scheme, as I have spoken to on previous groups, represents a major gap in the enforcement of tobacco and vape legislation. All tobacco products are harmful, and it is right that we ensure that those selling the products are following the rules and acting responsibly. A retail licensing scheme will help to deter those who fail to do so, and I know all noble Lords are concerned to do that. With that, I hope noble Lords will be good enough not to press their amendments.

[Lord Jackson of Peterborough (Con)]

I thank all noble Lords who took part in this debate on my amendment. I particularly thank the noble Baroness, Lady Fox of Buckley—it goes without saying that of course I support her Amendment 114C—and my noble friend Lord Sharpe of Epsom. This debate and the previous group have shown that it is quite difficult to properly launch a generational ban in a monolithic way without disaggregating the different products, which are discrete products.

I fear that the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, did not actually read the amendment, because it specifically says it is not just for the benefit of retailers and manufacturers. Subsection (1)(d) specifically mentions

“any other persons that the Secretary of State considers appropriate to consult”,

which would include health bodies and charities. Subsection (2) says:

“Consultation under this section must include a call for evidence”,


which, presumably, the latter would also avail themselves of. These are wide ranging and permissive powers of consultation, and I hope she might reconsider when we come back on Report.

We have had a good debate on this issue, given that we did not have a specific heated tobacco product amendment per se. With the proviso that the Minister has given me an undertaking to provide the data on the efficacy of heated tobacco products, and a very straightforward undertaking to do more consultation on these key areas, I am happy to withdraw this amendment.

Puberty-suppressing Hormones

Debate between Baroness Merron and Lord Jackson of Peterborough

Monday 16th December 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Merron (Lab)]

In view of what the noble Baroness said, it is quite important to consider that the children and young people’s gender services waiting list currently has 6,237 people on it. I certainly agree that waiting lists for these services are too long. We are committed to changing that, which is why I outlined the timetable for the new gender services and the opening of the new centres. They will increase clinical capacity and reduce waiting times for sure. On the point the noble Baroness raised, there is a commitment to the clinical trial, and I am glad there is. As we have brought forward this legislation in an absence of evidence, it is incumbent on us, as a Government, to follow through on what the previous Government started in train, which is to use a clinical trial to provide the evidence. Otherwise, the debate would remain uninformed and not evidence-based, and that cannot be helpful.

[Lord Jackson of Peterborough (Con)]

My Lords, I welcome the Statement and congratulate the Secretary of State on the moral clarity and leadership that he has shown in balancing the evidence base with compassion. Perhaps I may press the Minister on a few points. An indefinite ban is not the same as a permanent ban. Is there a chance that the indefinite ban, which goes to 2027, may segue into a permanent ban as more information and evidence arise over the next few years?

Given that it is pretty well understood that puberty blockers have given rise to fertility problems, bone health issues and psychological health issues, I cannot understand the inconsistent policy of keeping children currently on puberty blockers in the system, when we know that there is no positive evidence base and only a negative one. I think that will affect many children.

My final point is about the eight new regional centres that will be set up. Will we be certain that the ideologically-driven zealots—clinicians who misuse their position and have prescribed unsafe puberty blockers for children and young people—will not find themselves in these new facilities? That is an important issue as we wait for the clinical trial and ruminate on the issues that the noble Baroness, Lady Cass, mentioned. We need to start again on this and to understand that there are more treatments available for the most vulnerable children, who we need to protect, than merely puberty blockers.

[Baroness Merron (Lab)]

I certainly agree with the noble Lord about the vulnerability of children and young people in this regard, which is why we are taking this action. His last point gives me the opportunity to say that we are committed to implementing the recommendations of the Cass review in full. That is a very useful guideline and tool for us to use.

I have no expectation that the situation that the noble Lord described in his third point will happen. Recruitment is subject to all the usual provisions, and I know that the gender services will seek to recruit very positively. If the noble Lord finds out anything else, I am sure he will raise it with me.

On whether the ban could become permanent, the review—at the risk of repeating myself—will report in 2027, as the noble Lord said. I believe that we should wait for that.

Bread and Flour Regulations 1998

Debate between Baroness Merron and Lord Jackson of Peterborough

Wednesday 11th September 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Merron (Lab)]

I know that the noble Lord takes a great personal interest in these matters and has also campaigned very strongly. The area he refers to is being pursued because we want collective agreement on this across the whole of the UK, so that we can confirm that it is government policy with absolutely no qualifications, and that everyone is moving on the same timescale. I can confirm that we have notified the EU Commission and the WTO in order to fulfil international obligations and have thus far received no responses; that is why we are able to proceed with the next legislative steps.

[Lord Jackson of Peterborough (Con)]

My Lords, the Minister is a great asset to the Front Bench. This is a bipartisan issue, and I pay tribute to the noble Lord, Lord Rooker, for his excellent work over the years. When I was a Member of Parliament in the other place, Shine—formerly known as ASBAH—the charity for hydrocephalus and spina bifida, was located in my constituency. I say gently to the Minister that we have been campaigning on this issue for almost 20 years, and to my own Front Bench that there is no demonstrable, empirical scientific evidence of any substantial side-effects of putting folic acid into basic foodstuffs, and that it should happen. Finally, more than 30 countries have pursued this policy; they have tackled the enduring tragedy of spina bifida and hydrocephalus, and the impact they have on families. Therefore, can we please do this as soon as possible?

[Baroness Merron (Lab)]

I certainly hear the very welcome points that the noble Lord makes. As we progress, this will make us the first European country to mandate folic acid fortification of non-wholemeal flour. While some European countries, including Ireland, have voluntary fortification, mandatory fortification is not the case. I and my ministerial colleagues are keen to be in this position.