Licensing Act 2003 (Coronation Licensing Hours) Order 2023

Debate between Baroness McIntosh of Pickering and Lord Rennard

Wednesday 19th April 2023 Grand Committee

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I warmly welcome this order. This is a very appropriate opportunity to raise a glass in the way that my noble friend suggested. We looked very closely at the issuing of licences under the original ad hoc committee on the Licensing Act 2003 and the follow-up inquiry and continue to take a close interest in that.

I am not suggesting that it should be extended, but what is the thinking behind applying the extension to three days only and not to the bank holiday Monday?

If I have understood correctly, the fee has been kept at £21. That is very welcome, as it is mindful of the constraints under which the licensed premises operate. One reason why this is an excellent idea is to recognise what a hard time our hospitality sector has had coming out of Covid.

I think all of us look forward to supporting the industry in this way to the best of our ability—within moderation, obviously.

[Lord Rennard (LD)]

My Lords, I looked at the 2003 legislation, which permits such variation as proposed here, and noted, as the Minister did, that such relaxation is allowed to mark occasions of “exceptional national significance”. Even the most ardent republican could hardly argue that the Coronation this year will not be an exceptional event or matter of national significance. In fact, no one in this country under the age of 70 has been alive while there has been a Coronation, so it must fulfil that criterion. I will raise a couple of questions about the consultation process and perhaps go a little wider than this immediate measure.

First, in relation to this measure, I query whether it remains sensible for things such as this to be considered as part of the brief of the alcohol policy team at the Home Office. Given concerns about alcohol misuse, would it not be more appropriate for it to be handled by the Department of Health and Social Care rather than the Home Office?

Of course, I recognise that a number of stakeholders are involved in such a consultation, but it seems to me that some sort of qualitative analysis is needed rather than a quantitative one. I noted that around 50 responses were received. We are told that 37 or so were in favour and 11 were against. You could say that this means that 75% support it, so we should too, but I do not think that is a very good way, in public policy terms, of handling a consultation. The consultation is rather smaller in scale than that for the previous subject we discussed, which was on the microchipping cats and dogs. For that, there were 33,000 responses, but for the issue of these licences there were 50. It seems to me that, in considering a consultation on such issues, we should look at where the various stakeholders may be coming from—for example, the hospitality industry, the police and security, and health services. The Government engaged a very good list of consultees, but to answer every point with “Yes” or “No”, “For” or “Against”, with only one open question, does not really deal with the nub of the issues.

It would, perhaps, make more sense to list the responses from the hospitality industry about whether it welcomes this as a boost after a particularly hard two or three years or whether it thinks that it would cause problems for its staff. We perhaps need to hear separately from the police and those involved with neighbourhood policing issues about whether they consider it appropriate. We would also like to hear from the Department of Health and Social Care, trade associations concerned with beer, pubs, wine and spirits, and groups such as the Institute of Alcohol Studies and Alcoholics Anonymous about any consequences that they might see. That might help us form a better approach to assessing whether this is an appropriate measure. However, I certainly think it is, and it has my full support.

Business and Planning Bill

Debate between Baroness McIntosh of Pickering and Lord Rennard

Report stage & Report stage (Hansard) & Report stage (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 20th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering]

My Lords, possibly the most surprising thing about Amendment 15 as drafted is that the signatories are predominantly Liberal Democrats; it is not a particularly libertarian policy that they have come up with. Also, it seeks to unravel the compromise reached when the smoking ban was introduced. What I regret most about Amendment 15 is that it does not recognise the heavy investment that pubs, bars and restaurants have made in the outdoor facilities that they hope to open more of. For that reason, I regret that I shall be unable to support Amendment 15.

I pay tribute to my noble friend Lord Howe, who, through my chairmanship of PASS, I know has spent a great deal of time with the hospitality industry; obviously, I have had dealings with the hospitality industry as well. It is keen to recognise—and I welcome—the compromise offered by the government Amendment 13: there will be a smoke-free seating element. Had Amendment 15 not been tabled, perhaps we would not have got to the position we are now in. I note that a number of noble Lords have expressed the wish that the Government should go further, but the beauty of Amendment 13 is that it has regard to the heavy challenges currently facing the hospitality and leisure sectors during the ongoing Covid crisis and the way they are seeking to reopen. I very much welcome the work that has gone into Amendment 13; I will be delighted to support it if we have to later this evening.

[Lord Rennard (LD) [V]]

My Lords, earlier today, the noble Lord, Lord Bethell, congratulated the million people who have given up smoking during the lockdown, permanently we hope, to protect their health. Sadly, the government amendments today fail to do enough to protect them and others, including staff and families with children, from the dangers of second-hand smoke, which does not respect social distancing rules. We do not want non-smokers to be encouraged to return to habits they have struggled to give up. The connection between the consumption of alcohol and the smell of tobacco smoke is well known as a significant problem for people trying to give up smoking. The cross-party Amendment 15 is about minimising that problem by making newly created pavement areas smoke-free.

As is to be expected, tobacco company representations on this issue are disingenuous and, sadly, their views are too close to what is set out in the government amendments this afternoon. Today’s letter from the noble Lord, Earl Howe, to Members of the House repeats a fallacy about the cross-party amendment. It wrongly suggests that, in the event of making new areas non-smoking, there would be confusion with existing outside areas which would not be subject to the new rules. There need be no such confusion. Existing outdoor areas will maintain their current designation and provision for smokers, while newly created areas should be clearly signposted as being smoke-free, with something placed on the tables instead of ashtrays. The distinction should be very clear.

The cross-party Amendment 15 is not about banning smoking outdoors. As the Minister’s letter says, existing outside areas would not be subject to the new rules and nor would other open spaces. The proposal for new areas outside pubs and restaurants to be smoke-free is in line with the present provisions banning smoking in areas such as railway station concourses, which often have many different cafés and restaurants within them. Making new outdoor seating areas smoke-free will make them more attractive to the 86% of adults who do not smoke, especially families who do not want their children exposed to greater risk of second-hand smoke. The avoidance of smoking will make these places more attractive to potential customers, which is why local authorities support Amendment 15.

Finally, this amendment does not go nearly as far as the Welsh Government are going. With Labour support today, this amendment will be carried. Perhaps the Government will agree to think again before Third Reading.

Nutrition (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Debate between Baroness McIntosh of Pickering and Lord Rennard

Thursday 21st March 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I congratulate the Minister on bringing forward what will obviously be needed as we approach a situation in which no deal might be more likely. I have a number of questions.

My noble friend’s department has used the right language in this statutory instrument, but I am concerned that that language is not being reflected in, for example, the discussions on the Trade Bill that we had yesterday. On food safety, our honourable friend the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, Steve Brine, talked in the other place about retaining high standards and protections for the consumer, and safeguarding public health, as my noble friend did. Can the Minister use her good offices to make sure that all departments are using the same language?

It used to be that, according to the original Article 36 of the treaty of Rome—noble Lords will forgive me, but I cannot remember which article it now is—we could ban a nutrient or any ingredient that was deemed by the European Union to be unsafe on the grounds of public safety. I am at a loss as to why parliamentary draftsmen for one Bill—the Trade Bill—do not accept that the tried and tested, recognised language used by the Department of Health and Social Care and the Department of Environment, Food and Rural Affairs should not be used by the Department for International Trade. If the Minister could make that point throughout, that would be extremely helpful.

Is the Minister able to tell the House this afternoon when the appointments to the committee are likely to be made, and when it is likely to be set up?

On the current exclusion for infant and follow-on formula, I understand that the department will issue further advice on that “once the EU exit position is clarified”. That could take a while. As our honourable friend Steve Brine said in Committee next door:

“The Department will issue further advice on that once the EU exit position is clarified, which is clearly yet to happen”.—[Official Report, Commons, Thirteenth Delegated Legislation Committee, 28/2/19; col. 10.]


I am pleased to see that he has a sense of humour.

What will the position be on sharing with us decisions taken by the EFSA panel—and indeed on access to the food alert system, which will presumably apply to nutrients as well—and the sharing of information and decisions made by the panels which will be set up in this country? I remember going to Denmark when one of the few things that used to be cheaper there was vitamin C. You could buy two or three tubes of it in one go across the counter, until it was put on the proscribed list, which is regularly updated—I had not realised that you could overdose on vitamins C and D, and so on. Many other medicinal products regularly used by women of a certain age were also limited in scope as well. It seems good practice to share the decisions that are taken in the UK by the various panels, and to continue to share information and ask EFSA to let us know what its conclusions are. Presumably, we will wish to rely on the widest possible available scientific evidence.

With those few questions, I welcome this statutory instrument. Clearly, it will be helpful to know when the committee will be appointed and set up, the position on infant and follow-on formula, and the position on best practice. However, my main concern is that all departments should be using this language, not other language that is much less transparent and even opaque.

[Lord Rennard (LD)]

My Lords, people are right to be concerned about food safety and nutrition issues, the integrity of some of the claims that are made and the effects of substances which are permitted for use as supplements for various purposes. People who are presently satisfied by the standards set by the European Food Safety Authority have legitimate concerns about future regulatory approaches and potential changes to them.

The draft nutrition regulations in this SI may provide some temporary reassurance for consumers and businesses using these products, but, as indicated by the Minister a few minutes ago, they do not provide any sort of long-term reassurance about what may happen in future. As she said, regulations in the UK and the EU will be identical on departure day—whenever that might be—but they will inevitably divert in future when different people in different bodies come to different conclusions. Can she therefore indicate what the issues will be when a UK body begins to make different regulations to those determined by the European body?

Can the Minister indicate what additional costs there may be in the long run from setting up new bodies to replace EU regulations with UK ones? Perhaps she can tell us what have been the recruitment costs for the new bodies and what will be the ongoing costs of running them. Before June 2016, many people were led to believe that they would be freed from sharing the cost of things like the European Food Safety Authority. However, what will be the costs of establishing and running these bodies, in particular the new UK Nutrition and Health Claims Committee?

We are told that the processes to be undertaken will be similar to present ones at EU-wide level, but presumably businesses seeking to sell products such as nutritional supplements across the UK and the EU will in future need the approval of both EU and UK authorities. Will this not mean that the burdens and costs of regulation for us outside the EU will be increased, rather than reduced as many people were led to believe? The extra costs and burdens of duplicating UK and EU approval processes will surely hinder future research and innovation.

Most fundamentally, will the Minister confirm that leaving the EU on a no-deal basis would mean that we deny ourselves and the rest of the EU the benefits of sharing costs and expertise on these issues across the UK and the EU?