Sudan

Debate between Baroness McIntosh of Pickering and Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park

Wednesday 26th April 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, given the background that my noble friend has described, I add my congratulations to all those involved in the evacuation. My noble friend has set out the challenges of communication, given the circumstances. How would he advise British citizens to best communicate with the Foreign Office to get an update, if communications are as challenging as he says?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

There is no perfect answer to that question because the communications infrastructure is so patchy. We are doing our best to encourage as many—ideally, all—British nationals to register with us so that we can keep them informed as much as is practically possible. As I said earlier, 2,500 British nationals have registered but we need that number to grow.

United Nations World Water Development Report

Debate between Baroness McIntosh of Pickering and Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park

Tuesday 28th March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

The right reverend Prelate is exactly right on both counts, and our approach focuses very much on partnership and co-operation. The figures are huge: 2 billion people lacked access to safely managed water services in 2020, and 3.5 billion people lacked access to safely managed sanitation. He is also right about the link between water shortage and conflict. I think the House will find it as shocking as I do that children under five in protracted conflict zones are more likely to die as a consequence of unsafe water than from violence, so the link is absolutely there.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, will my noble friend encourage Ofwat and UK water companies to enter into a partnership programme with countries such as those identified by the right reverend Prelate? Can he explain why we are importing so much fruit and vegetables from countries in areas challenged by water stress, when we could grow much more at home?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I would love to see us produce more fruit and veg here in the UK. We produce wonderful fruit and veg. I suspect that the answer is that water is not priced correctly. Water is essential to all lifeforms on earth, yet we regard it as an expendable, infinite source. I suspect that is the reason why water footprints so rarely feature in prices.

European Political Community

Debate between Baroness McIntosh of Pickering and Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park

Monday 31st October 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, the participants, including the host country, are very clear that no new structures or institutions are to be created. That is absolutely not the purpose. There is a healthy scepticism towards the creation of such structures, precisely on the basis that they could end up duplicating the work of other such structures or even undermining it.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, given the suspected sabotage of the underground cables and communication pipes outside the island of Bornholm, affecting the supply of energy to Denmark and Sweden, what precautions are the Government taking to protect not just our interconnectors but all our underground cables, which are vital to our communications system in this country?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, I mentioned in response to a question from another noble Lord that discussions around the interconnectors took place, but I am afraid I am not in a position to provide an authoritative update. I will make sure that such an update is made available if that is possible.

United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020 (Exclusions from Market Access Principles: Single-Use Plastics) Regulations 2022

Debate between Baroness McIntosh of Pickering and Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park

Tuesday 12th July 2022 Grand Committee

[The Minister of State, Department for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park) (Con)]

My Lords, this instrument was laid in draft before this House on 9 June. It makes an exclusion from the market access principles of the UK Internal Market Act, or UKIM Act, for legislation so far as it prohibits the sale of single-use plastic straws, stemmed cotton buds, drinks stirrers, plates, cutlery or chopsticks, balloon sticks, food containers, drinks containers or cups made wholly or partly from expanded or extruded polystyrene. I will cover both the reasons for and the impact of this instrument, starting with the former.

This instrument is being brought forward following an agreement under the provisional Resources and Waste Common Framework. The exclusion made in the instrument is necessary because all four nations share an ambition to tackle plastic pollution. This instrument furthers that ambition while recognising the need to protect the integrity of the UK internal market against future barriers to intra-UK trade.

Legislation banning the sale of the single-use plastic items covered by this exclusion has been introduced, will be introduced or has been consulted on being introduced in all four nations. However, there is a difference in the timing of these bans, which means the UKIM Act has an impact on the ability to implement such legislation.

The UKIM Act contains two market access principles: mutual recognition and non-discrimination. The principle of mutual recognition introduced by the Act means that a good that can be lawfully sold in the part of the UK in which it has been produced, or into which it has been imported, may be sold in any other part of the UK without needing to comply with any relevant requirements applying to the sale in that other part of the UK. The principle of non-discrimination means that the sale of goods in one part of the UK should not be affected by directly or indirectly discriminatory relevant requirements towards goods that have a relevant connection with another part of the UK.

I will now briefly outline the impact of this statutory instrument. The exclusion from the market access principles created by it means that the principles will not apply to legislation so far as it prohibits the sale of single-use plastic straws, stemmed cotton buds, drinks stirrers, plates, cutlery or chopsticks, balloon sticks, food containers, drinks containers or cups made wholly or partly from expanded or extruded polystyrene. For example, from 1 June 2022 it has been illegal to sell a single-use plastic plate in Scotland. The exclusion introduced by this instrument will mean that single-use plastic plates produced in or imported into other parts of the UK cannot be sold in Scotland, regardless of whether there is an equivalent ban in place in other parts of the UK.

The requirement in Section 10(7) of the UKIM Act for the Secretary of State to have regard to the importance of facilitating the access to the market within GB of qualifying Northern Ireland goods has been considered. The supply of the items covered by this exclusion is banned in Scotland and the Welsh and UK Governments have consulted on banning the supply of these items where it is not already banned. The relevant EU directive—article 5 of the single-use plastics directive—under annexe 2 of the Northern Ireland protocol, once implemented, will have equivalent effect to the proposed and existing legislation in Scotland, England and Wales, with the exception that legislation in Scotland, England and Wales will not encompass items made from oxodegradable plastic. As such, it is not thought that there is a need to make additional or separate provision to maintain access to the market within Great Britain for these single-use plastic items.

A full impact assessment has not been prepared for this instrument because it does not impose any new requirements. This instrument will affect the application of the Environmental Protection (Single-use Plastic Products) (Scotland) Regulations 2021 and any forthcoming regulations in England and Wales that ban the supply of the items covered by the exclusion. Any impacts on those regulations have been considered in the case of the Scottish regulations and will be considered in the case of any forthcoming regulations in England and Wales. Ministers from the Welsh and Scottish Governments have consented to the making of these regulations.

The Secretary of State will publish a statement in accordance with Section 10(11) of the UKIM Act explaining why these regulations will be made without consent from the Department for the Economy in Northern Ireland. To summarise, as this legislation is of a cross-cutting nature, it would normally require referral to the Northern Ireland Executive as per Northern Ireland’s Ministerial Code. This has obviously not been possible due to the ongoing absence of a First and Deputy First Minister in Northern Ireland, meaning the Executive cannot meet. My officials have however continued to engage at official level with the relevant Northern Ireland departments in the development of this legislation and there has been engagement with the Minister for Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs, Edwin Poots MLA, and the Minister for the Economy, Minister Lyons MLA, who have not raised any objections to the proposal.

The exclusion introduced by this instrument recognises our shared ambition across the UK to tackle plastic pollution while recognising the need to protect the integrity of the UK internal market against future barriers to intra-UK trade. I believe this shows that the process for considering UK Internal Market Act exclusions in common framework areas is working as intended. I commend these regulations to the Committee and I beg to move.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

I welcome, for the most part, the instrument which is before us this afternoon. I have a number of questions to put to my noble friend.

First, there seems to be an obvious exclusion from the list that has been given: wet wipes. I am sure my noble friend will agree that wet wipes, although they are sold in a pack, are causing huge damage, and it is something that we have looked at in other statutory instruments. I am looking at a report called Bricks and Mortar 3 about how to prevent flooding, and one of the issues that causes flooding, as we remember from debate on what became the Environment Act, is wet wipes mixing with fats, oils and grease in the water courses, causing flooding and a blockage in the system. I know we discussed cotton buds as well—I do not know whether they are here—but I would ask why cotton buds and wet wipes are not included since they do enormous damage.

I commend Scotland, which I see has already banned the sale of single-use plastic plates, and I wonder whether we are going to follow suit. My noble friend has said on a number of occasions that we are going to ban single-use plastics, and I was rather expecting a whole raft of statutory instruments in this regard. I know the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Whitchurch, has held the Government’s feet to the fire over this, and has never missed an opportunity to do so, but we have not seen any of those statutory instruments.

A report published today shows that 96.5 billion items of plastic are thrown away by UK households every year, and only 12% of that plastic is recycled. As to why there is such a low percentage, could my noble friend tell us what is happening while these items remain in circulation, in whichever part of the internal market of the United Kingdom we are talking about? When are we going to have clear advice to each household, irrespective of where in the country you live, as to how to dispose of single-use plastic? For example, if you had a single-use plastic plate at a picnic and it has tomato sauce or oil all over it, if you put that in a recycling bin, is it not the case that you are contaminating the whole content of the bin? So where are we today on ensuring that the best advice is being given across the piece, so that there is uniform advice, even if it is just in England—although I would prefer it to be across the whole of the internal market of the United Kingdom—to prevent cross-contamination leading to less plastic going to recycling than would otherwise be the case?

I understand that no exemption has been extended to the ban on the supply of single-use plastic items in the UK. If I am correct in my assumption that we are allowed to use these on board aircraft, that seems bizarre. Could my noble friend explain why that has been extended?

In so far as this seems to relate to non-discrimination and having the same rules of circulation apply, I welcome what is in the statutory instrument. I just regret that it does not go nearly as far as I would have hoped, and when might we get the other statutory instruments which we were promised under the Environment Act? I would welcome answers to my questions from my noble friend.

Fur: Import and Sale

Debate between Baroness McIntosh of Pickering and Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park

Tuesday 14th June 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, I am certainly no fan of the inappropriate use of plastics, which are, as the noble Earl says, choking the oceans and have done more damage in one generation than it is almost possible to imagine. However, he is talking about an extremely niche part of the clothing sector. Of the overall volume of clothing created, the amount that is or could ever be real fur, even if we were mad enthusiasts for fur, would be such a tiny part that there are bigger fish to fry. A more important focus for the Government to look at is how we can use more sustainable products for the clothes we use.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, will my noble friend explain why the Government would wish to ban the import of rabbit-fur articles? Is he aware that at the moment it is not possible to export any live animal for breeding purposes anywhere in Europe, because there are simply no facilities that will take them? Will my noble friend use his best authority to research this and make sure that that trade resumes? It is an extremely important trade for the farming industry and one that has suffered grave losses at this time.

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I apologise to the noble Baroness; I did not hear the first part of the question. If she is asking about the merits of using rabbit fur—if not, I will certainly write to her and provide clarity—the arguments against farming any animal for fur are usually around the conditions in which those animals are kept and subsequently slaughtered. I think that is the principal reason that what seems like a clear majority of the British public opposes fur farming.

Food Insecurity: England

Debate between Baroness McIntosh of Pickering and Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park

Tuesday 7th June 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord for his comments, and he is right: tackling poverty in all forms is a key priority for this and any Government. The Chancellor recently announced a new £15 billion support package to help families with the cost of living, building on measures worth nearly £22 billion that the Government have already announced. That brings the total support for households this year to £37 billion, which will be targeted in any number of ways but is particularly designed to help those who are most vulnerable.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, given that our food security and self-sufficiency is lowest in fruit and vegetables, what progress has been made on issuing work permits for people to come and pick our fruit and vegetables in the season which is just about upon us?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

There has been a lot of talk about self-sufficiency, so I looked into this to see what changes there have been in recent years. We have a high degree of food security in the UK: we are largely self-sufficient in wheat production, growing 88% of all the wheat we need; we are 86% self-sufficient in beef; we are fully self-sufficient in liquid milk—I am making a point that I hope is interesting; we produce more lamb than we consume; and we are close to 100% self-sufficient in poultry. The Ukraine situation has certainly added pressure, but our situation vis-à-vis self-sufficiency has not altered measurably in the last 20 years.

Direct Payment to Farmers (Reductions) (England) Regulations 2022

Debate between Baroness McIntosh of Pickering and Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park

Monday 21st March 2022 Grand Committee

[The Minister of State, Department for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park) (Con)]

My Lords, I hope it will be useful to your Lordships if I speak to all the instruments, beginning with the draft Direct Payment to Farmers (Reductions) (England) Regulations 2022, which were laid before this House on 3 February 2022. The matters in these instruments are closely related. Made using powers under the Agriculture Act 2020, they implement important aspects of our new agricultural policy, as set out in the agricultural transition plan published in November 2020 and updated in June 2021. The three instruments apply only in relation to England.

The Direct Payments to Farmers (Reductions) (England) Regulations 2022 apply progressive reductions to direct payments to farmers in England for the 2022 scheme year. By doing so, it continues the process of phasing out direct payments in England which began in the 2021 scheme year. The Government remain committed to phasing out direct payments in England over the seven-year agricultural transition period. We are doing so as area-based payments are unfair: they go primarily to larger landowners, artificially inflate land rents, stand in the way of new entrants to farming getting access to land, and offer little return for the taxpayer.

To help farmers plan, we initially committed in 2018 to phase out direct payments. The specific reductions provided for in this instrument were announced in November 2020. As was the case for 2021, higher percentage reductions will be applied to payment amounts in higher payment bands.

Although direct payments are reducing, total funding to farmers is not. We will make money from the reductions available to targeted schemes, which will increase farm productivity, improve the health and welfare of animals, and enhance the natural environment. In the coming year, that reallocated money will be used to meet the rising demand from farmers for countryside stewardship, our current environmental offer, which has seen a 40% increase in applications. That funding will also be used in the launch of the first of our new environmental land management schemes: the sustainable farming incentive. Further, we will also fund the initial wave of the landscape recovery scheme, with projects focused on supporting native species and restoring rivers.

We are also making available free business advice to farmers and will continue to offer a range of popular grant offers so that farmers can invest in their businesses and become more efficient and sustainable. We will also be offering a new suite of opportunities for farmers, supply chains and researchers to collaborate on researching and developing innovative but practical solutions to the challenges and opportunities that farming faces. This is an essential reform that puts England on track to meet its legally binding environmental and net-zero targets, while creating a thriving and self-reliant farming sector.

The Agriculture (Financial Assistance) (Amendment) Regulations 2022 amend the Agriculture (Financial Assistance) Regulations 2021, approved by this House on 22 March 2021. Those regulations put in place financial data publication and enforcement and monitoring requirements for four new financial assistance schemes established under the Agriculture Act 2020. This amending instrument extends the range of financial assistance schemes covered by the 2021 regulations to ensure that any new financial assistance scheme launched in 2022 and thereafter is subject to the same checking, monitoring and enforcement requirements that applied to the original schemes launched in 2021.

The 2021 regulations gave Defra the opportunity to test, refine and develop these new requirements. The amendments made by this instrument will now allow the Government to move on to the next stage of agricultural policy set out in the agricultural transition plan.

This instrument also strengthens the investigative powers in the 2021 regulations to ensure that where there are suspicions of offences in connection with financial assistance —for example, fraud offences—the Secretary of State can, where appropriate, fully investigate the matter. The amendment will allow the Secretary of State to investigate not only agreement holders but applicants, and in certain circumstances the employees or agents of an applicant or agreement holder. These investigative powers mirror powers Defra holds in relation to CAP schemes, while allowing Defra to use them in a more proportionate manner, reflecting the objectives of the Agriculture Act.

This instrument also removes a reference to grants in Regulation 13 of the 2021 regulations. The amendment will ensure that “financial assistance” is not limited to grants and can include other forms of assistance, as provided for in Section 2(1) of the Agriculture Act.

In drafting the 2021 regulations, Defra engaged with key stakeholders in a targeted consultation exercise between 4 August and 1 September 2020, giving stakeholders the opportunity to review Defra’s proposed approach and express their views. Feedback gathered during the consultation exercise was used to inform the content of the 2021 regulations and this amending instrument.

I turn to the Agriculture (Lump Sum Payment) (England) Regulations 2022. As part of our wider agricultural reforms, we want to support farmers who wish to leave the industry, as well as those who want to stay. We know that some farmers would like to retire or leave farming but have found it difficult to do so for financial reasons. That is why this instrument allows a scheme to be introduced in 2022 which provides lump sum payments to farmers in England who wish to leave the sector. These payments will be in place of any further direct payments to the recipient during the remainder of the agricultural transition. This is not new money and will not impact the funding of other schemes. This scheme should also free up land, creating more opportunities for new entrants and farmers who wish to expand.

These instruments implement provisions in the Agriculture Act 2020. They continue the transition away from the inefficient direct payments model of the CAP and they build upon the already implemented financial assistance framework to cover new schemes, in line with the agricultural transition plan. I beg to move.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for introducing these regulations. I would like to put one or two questions about each in turn.

Could my noble friend the Minister clarify an issue that has been raised? The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs said at Blackpool, if I have understood correctly, that farmers have more than made up for any income lost since these new provisions came in—or, in fact, since we left the European Union. My contacts told me over the weekend that is anything but the case. It would be welcome to know the basis for the Secretary of State’s remarks; perhaps there is something I am misunderstanding.

Regarding direct payments to farmers, the subject of the first regulation before us, as my noble friend said, this is putting us on the path to reducing the direct payments until we eventually come into ELMS. What has been identified, I think by the CLA especially, is that there will potentially be a 50% gap in the funding that farmers have been receiving between the regulations before us this afternoon and the end of the transition period. If that is the case, and I am sure my noble friend’s department will be aware of that, I would like to understand how that gap will be filled so that farmers do not lose out.

I am concerned that there is a lack of understanding. We are meant to be levelling up the economy and unleashing the rural economy. I think, at the moment, the rural economy is performing below par. One reason is that we simply do not have the tools.

I will take the North Yorkshire moors as an example, or the Yorkshire Dales, where my brother lives: we still have woeful broadband internet connections there and the mobile signal contacts are often potentially extremely dangerous. We learned at a recent meeting that masts have apparently been put in by two providers—I believe it is O₂ and EE—but these have not been linked up in this rather broad area of North Yorkshire. My noble friend’s department is responsible for rural affairs—it is in its title—so perhaps he could use his good offices to ensure that, as we leave direct payments and move to an alternative form, farmers will be given the tools to do the job.

To conclude on the first regulations, there is also a lack of understanding that tenants are unable to qualify under the new schemes. I would be interested to know to what extent that is reflected in contacts that the department has had with tenants. I know that our honourable friend the Farming Minister in the other place, Victoria Prentis, is aware of this. I commend the work of the Rock review on tenant farmers, but tenants are being evicted as we speak. There simply will not be that many of them left, if we carry on at this pace, when we reach the end of the transitional stage for direct payments to farmers.

I make a plea to my noble friend: will he help me to understand how, when it is gone, the direct payments relief will be replaced for those tenants who cannot claim for anything other than farm schemes owing to the nature of their farm tenancy agreements? Those are enshrined in a great many agricultural Acts, not least the 1947 Act. Can he put my mind at rest on the plight of tenant farmers?

I add that on common land graziers and those with shooting rights are trying to compete side by side. I am sure my noble friend will be aware that there is currently an issue with food security, not least because we understand that Ukrainians have been picking most of our fruit and vegetables in the last two or three years. It appears that, added to the cost of wheat, we may perhaps soon have in this country a local shortage of such staples. I wonder how my noble friend expects to address that.

I turn briefly to the Agriculture (Financial Assistance) (Amendment) Regulations. Paragraph 7.6 of the Explanatory Memorandum says that the department will perhaps try to look more favourably and proportionately on how the offences are to be inspected; I think my noble friend alluded to this. However, the first sentence does not entirely fill me with confidence. It states:

“The instrument also expands the power of the Secretary of State to investigate suspected offences in connection with applications for, or receipt of financial assistance.”


That will not go down well, particularly with the owners of small family farms, who have said at every turn how they are finding that, if anything, the administrative burdens are increasing. I would like to hear a little more detail from my noble friend about how these regulations will applied. How will the full force of Defra be applied more proportionately?

The third and final instrument before us states clearly that direct payments are to be replaced. My noble friend referred to a lump sum payment. This might seem very attractive, particularly to older farmers. I refer again to my experience of North Yorkshire in this regard. The difficulty they have asked me about is: if they apply for this lump sum grant, how will that affect their tax situation? Did I understand my noble friend to say that it could be up to £100,000?

We have a shortage of affordable homes in the countryside. Very few new houses being built across North Yorkshire—and, as far as I can see, in other rural areas of England—are one- or two-bedroom, which would be ideal for farmers who have moved off the farm and want to stay in a village. If we do not make it more attractive for them, we will prevent newer, younger farmers coming in, which is a desire of Defra. With those few remarks, I look forward to my noble friend’s responses.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

I have that already. I am just slightly disappointed that the working group will not now report for nine months; it was meant to report within six months.

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I said six to nine months; I am afraid that is the answer I received. I shall check on the timescale, but I assume six to nine months is correct, since that is what my colleague, my noble friend Lord Benyon, has told me.

The noble Duke, the Duke of Wellington, raised a broader point beyond tenant farmers, about small farmers. He is right: small farmers are the backbone of our countryside, and any policy that results in a reduction in the diversity, breadth and viability of our small farmers is not a good one. They are critical to the future sustainability of our countryside. Farmers will be supported throughout the seven-year transition period to the new system. We are reducing direct payments, as the noble Duke said, but that will be gradually over the seven years, which will give farmers time to adapt and take advantage of the new offer. Money saved by direct payment reductions will be reinvested directly into English farming and agriculture through our new schemes. The Government are committed to providing the same cash total to the sector in each year of this Parliament. Some £10.7 million of funding has already been awarded through the interim phase of the future farming resilience fund. That provides, among other things, free business support to farmers and land managers to help them navigate the changes during the early years of the agricultural transition period.

Upland farmers have a particularly important role to play in addition to that of food production, and that is in land management. In their contribution to alleviating the threat of floods, which blight so many communities in this country, there is almost no one in a more important position than those farmers. They are absolutely in the mix when it comes to the new system that has been designed.

I turn to the questions asked by the noble Lord, Lord Carrington, and my noble friend the Duke of Montrose. My noble friend asked what proportion of the money would be spent on schemes which are not related to farming and are purely conservation. Again, I cannot give him a direct number, but there are schemes beyond the system being described today which are designed to support, for example, natural regeneration or tree planting, most of the funding for which comes from the nature for climate fund. We are talking here about a slightly different system which the nature for climate fund supports, but ultimately this is all about good land management.

The Government published a paper, which was updated in September 2019—I may have mentioned it earlier—setting out the impacts of removing the direct payments. That paper is being updated as we speak. The delay is caused by the conflict in Ukraine.

My noble friend and the noble Lord, Lord Carrington, talked also about the impact on consumer food prices. The analysis that we have made in Defra suggests that any effect of direct payments on consumer food prices is limited. However, we are doing a full impact assessment on food security up to 2024, and the results will be made available and will inform future policy design.

It is important that we continue with the transition as planned. Applying reductions to direct payments frees up money which we can use to pay farmers and land managers to encourage environmental protection and enhancement, public access to the countryside, and the safeguarding of livestock and plants. We must also provide opportunities for farmers who wish to leave farming to do so in a managed way. These instruments will allow the Government to ensure that this can be done. I hope that I have answered the key questions put to me today. I beg to move.

Minister for the Oceans

Debate between Baroness McIntosh of Pickering and Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park

Wednesday 16th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

That is a very different issue. The noble Lord will not be surprised that I disagree, but again I challenge him to give me a single example of another country that has either protected more waters directly or done more heavy lifting internationally to get the rest of the world to increase its ambition. More than 100 countries are now signed up and committed to protecting 30% of the world’s ocean by the end of this decade. That would not be happening if it were not for UK leadership.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend, as Minister for the Oceans, took a great interest in the passage of the now Environment Act, and in how the competing claims of fishing, shipping and new planning applications for offshore wind farms would be balanced. Have there been any further developments to put our minds at rest that future applications for offshore wind farms will have regard to fishing and shipping?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

This is an important point and there is a tension between our desire to scale up offshore wind, a sector in which the UK has a leadership position, and the need to protect our ocean and fishing sector. Defra is playing an increasingly important role, mostly through my colleague Rebecca Pow, and is liaising with BEIS and other departments, working to improve our understanding of the adverse environmental impacts and developing a cross-government approach to addressing them. In a few months, we will publish the findings of our recent consultation.

Single-Use Plastics

Debate between Baroness McIntosh of Pickering and Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park

Monday 7th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I very much share the frustrations of the noble Baroness about how long some of these things take, but it is worth pointing out that, as she says, we now have the power to ban products which cause environmental pollution and are harmful to human or animal health and harmful to nature more broadly. The bans that have already been introduced, on plastic bags, for example, resulted in a 95% reduction in sales. Straws, stirrers and cotton buds have reduced by similar amounts and there are many more products in the pipeline where the UK Government are very likely to be introducing the necessary bans.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I congratulate my noble friend and the Government on going as far as they have. Is part of the difficulty the confusion over the different types of plastics? On 4 March, the Government produced a press release on post-consumer plastic, which includes household plastic and other uses. Would it not be better for this to be disposed of through issues such as energy from waste, so that we were dealing with two problems at the same time: disposing of plastics and feeding into energy for households to use locally?

Kabul: Pen Farthing

Debate between Baroness McIntosh of Pickering and Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park

Wednesday 2nd February 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I can answer half the question. I cannot tell the noble Lord why the confusion arose, other than that it was a particularly complicated time, but I can say that at the time the email was sent, the staff member who the noble Lord mentions was seconded to that emergency evacuations unit at the FCDO and was emailing in that capacity. The email was not sent under my instruction or with my knowledge; it was part of a wider process.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, can my noble friend say whether any health checks were undertaken on the animals in question before they left Kabul?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, as I said, it was an exceptional emergency situation. In normal circumstances, we do not recommend the movement of consignments of animals, particularly large consignments. We take biosecurity very seriously. On landing in this country, the cats and dogs were transferred to prearranged quarantine facilities where they will have to remain for four months or until they have completed the rabies risk management process fully. The process ensures that animals meet the highest standards and protects our rabies-free status, which of course we value greatly.

Peat

Debate between Baroness McIntosh of Pickering and Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park

Tuesday 18th January 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I am afraid I cannot provide that justification because there is a clear contradiction, but that is why we are pushing ahead with our proposals and measures to eliminate the use of peat in horticulture. The noble Lord makes a very good point.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend share my concern that, since we have left the European Union, we will now have different environmental standards in England, Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland? Will he use his good offices to ensure that the devolved nations all impose a ban on the use of peat for horticultural purposes, bearing in mind that it takes 200 years to create a peat bog?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, it is not a source of concern that we are able to legislate or regulate differently; the UK has demonstrated a commitment to raising the bar in terms of environmental protections. It is generally recognised—if not in this country then certainly elsewhere—that the UK is a world leader in conservation and nature restoration, but it is for the devolved Administrations to make their own policies and, of course, we will continue our discussions in the hope that we are as closely aligned as possible.

EU-UK Partnership Council

Debate between Baroness McIntosh of Pickering and Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park

Tuesday 18th January 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, I am not sure I agree that we have taken an insufficiently proactive approach, but I certainly think the new Foreign Secretary has brought a particular level of energy to the task. The first meeting last year saw frank but constructive discussions on the TCA implementation; yes, a number of areas of disagreement were identified, but the process launched the governance and committee structures of the TCA and our commitment to dialogue and co-operation. I think it achieved the first goals that were set out.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, will my noble friend take this opportunity to update the House on meetings of specialist committees between the UK and the EU, particularly in areas such as fisheries, which are so key to our ongoing and future relationship with the EU in these policy areas?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I will try in due course to provide answers relating to other specialist committees, as the noble Baroness mentioned, but on fishing licences our approach has been and remains fully in line with our TCA obligations. We have said throughout the process that we have issued licences where we have received evidence of an entitlement. It is worth pointing out that the UK has issued over 1,800 licences to EU vessels seeking to fish in our waters.

Smuggling: Kittens and Puppies

Debate between Baroness McIntosh of Pickering and Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park

Tuesday 7th December 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, we believe that the network of agencies and stakeholders that work on puppy smuggling are doing a good job. We are not planning to change this, but we will work closely with the Border Force, local authorities, the devolved Administrations and so on to tackle the problem. The new measures that we are introducing should have very little additional impact on APHA, the Border Force or local authorities, but we are looking closely at the implications of these proposals and we will continue to work with them as we develop future restrictions.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, will my noble friend accept that the single most effective measure for reducing the smuggling of puppies is to ensure that the mother of the puppies is always present at the point of sale? Will that be included in the kept animals Bill?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, two years ago we introduced Lucy’s law, whose purpose was to tackle unscrupulous breeders in this country. One of its components was a requirement that, where people purchase a puppy, they are able to see that puppy first in the context of its natural family and the home in which it was raised. That would include, of course, being with its mother.

Environment Bill

Debate between Baroness McIntosh of Pickering and Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park

Wednesday 15th September 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I thank noble Lords for their contributions to the debate. This is an extremely important issue and the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, is right to raise it. In delivering net zero, it is crucial that environmental protections are maintained. I can assure her that existing planning processes are designed to ensure thorough consideration of cumulative effects prior to consenting. The need to consider cumulative effects in planning and decision-making is already set out in planning policy, in particular in the energy national policy statement, the marine policy statement, the habitats regulations assessment process and the infrastructure planning regulations of 2017, which cover the environmental impact assessment.

The regulatory framework also includes independent scrutiny by statutory nature conservation bodies—for example, Natural England. These regulatory frameworks ensure comprehensive identification and assessment of all significant environmental impacts, including the cumulative effects of the project, whether these be to the marine or terrestrial environment.

We have also brought forward amendments to the biodiversity net gain provisions in the Bill, extending the policy to terrestrial nationally significant infrastructure projects. As the noble Baroness will know, we have included provisions within the amendments to extend net gain to the marine environment once we have established the appropriate approach.

The noble Baroness asked a number of specific questions. The first was again in relation to the tension between inshore fisheries and offshore wind farms. Defra is working closely with Natural England, Cefas and the Marine Management Organisation to try to better understand the tensions and then consider the appropriate solutions. We have recently commissioned work looking at opportunities for co-location and are considering examples of good practice, such as the work done in Grimsby that enables fisheries and offshore wind farm operators to work well together. This also pays dividends for the marine environment, reducing the cumulative impacts of both.

The noble Baroness mentioned the example of the US Administration, who are currently considering a compensation scheme for the fishing industry as a result of losses incurred from the expansion of offshore wind developments. In the UK, offshore wind farm developers already pay disruption compensation to fishers temporarily displaced from their grounds by offshore wind construction. Members of the Defra programmes on offshore wind-enabling actions and marine planning are meeting US Administration officials and BEIS on Monday 20 September to discuss approaches to managing the deployment of offshore wind to minimise disturbance to the marine environment and other sea users.

The noble Baroness is right that onshore pylons are unsightly and, no doubt, not environmentally friendly. Electricity from offshore wind farms is transmitted to land, as she knows, via subsea cables. The offshore transmission network review, which was led by BEIS and Ofgem, is working to increase the co-ordination of offshore transmission to reduce the overall amount of new onshore infrastructure needed to meet the Government’s offshore wind targets.

Finally, the noble Baroness asked about decommissioning. Decommissioning is considered in the consenting process for offshore wind. In addition, Defra is discussing future options for decommissioning with developers who have programmes currently going through the consenting process. Some arrays may be repowered; however, other legacy infrastructure has been colonised and now provides important biodiversity benefits. We are working with the industry to understand how decommissioning can be delivered to maximise the gains while removing any unnecessary and avoidable pressures from the marine environment.

I hope that answers the questions that the noble Baroness asked and she feels sufficiently reassured to withdraw her amendment.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Khan, for his remarks, and I am especially grateful to my noble friend the Minister for his reassurance on these points. He certainly put my mind at rest on many of them. I am not sure that the idea of colonising wind turbines on wind farms sounds very appealing, but he has satisfied me. It is helpful to know of the meeting on 20 September. I would be grateful if my noble friend could update us in that regard. At this stage, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Environment Bill

Debate between Baroness McIntosh of Pickering and Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park

Report stage
Monday 13th September 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

Just before my noble friend sits down, I did ask one question: what has changed since the regulations, which were to impose exactly what he intends to do, were rejected in 2012 for being too expensive? When we met, my noble friend said that the aim of the Government’s policy now was to end the automatic right to connect and make it conditional—but conditional upon what?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

What has changed is the technology and the SUDS—for example, rain gardens and swales et cetera. The planning system has changed in any number of ways, as my noble friend knows from her time in the coalition Government and since. That has given rise to a need to re-evaluate and work out what the appropriate policy should be.

Environment Bill

Debate between Baroness McIntosh of Pickering and Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park

Committee stage
Wednesday 14th July 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I thank noble Lords for their contributions to this debate. Although energy production is not directly covered by the scope of the Bill, its impact on the environment clearly is hugely important. The urgent need to decarbonise our economy means that we need to greatly increase our deployment of renewable energy projects in the coming years.

I thank my noble friend Lady McIntosh for Amendment 280. She is right that the development of offshore wind farms needs to be achieved in a way that protects fragile marine environments and, as she said, the many mammals and other forms of marine life that live there. It is all too common when pursuing a solution to one problem to simply brush aside the creation of other problems in the excitement. I pay tribute to her for raising these important issues, as she has done on many occasions in this House. I reassure her that applications for development consent for offshore wind farms made under the Planning Act 2008 are required to undertake an environmental assessment that includes consideration of the impact of development on marine life and sea mammals. This process can be used to secure mitigation to minimise any adverse effects of development.

I can confirm to my noble friend that Schedule 4 to the 2017 infrastructure planning regulations sets out the environmental information that developers have to provide in the environmental statements that accompany applications. This includes information on the cumulative impact. However, I am very happy to have that discussion with her when we meet shortly.

Both the examining authority and the Secretary of State are able to request further information during the application process if they consider that the information supplied by the applicant is insufficient. The information provided allows the Secretary of State to decide what level of mitigation or compensation should be required if there are adverse impacts on the marine environment. The Secretary of State must take into account both the benefits and the impacts of the project and any proposed mitigation or compensation in deciding whether to grant or refuse development consent.

More widely, the Secretary of State may set out in the relevant national policy statement any particular information applicants need to provide as part of their application for development consent for specific technologies. As my noble friend knows, the Government are in the process of updating the national policy statements for energy, and intend to publish the revised plans by the end of this year. There will be a full public consultation, as well as an opportunity for parliamentary scrutiny, before the updated statements are designated.

Supported by an investment from the Treasury’s shared outcomes fund, Defra is also leading work to improve the understanding of environmental impacts from construction, as well as looking at how we can reduce the impacts of underwater noise. We are also developing a mechanism for introducing net gain through offshore wind deployment and improving the accessibility and provision of data to improve consenting and monitoring. Defra is working very closely with BEIS, environmental NGOs and the offshore wind sector to make sure that any such mitigation or compensation is both effective and deliverable. The Government are also considering how future developments can be planned and delivered in such a way that any adverse environmental impact is significantly reduced.

In response to the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, and my noble friend Lady McIntosh, the offshore transmission networks review, which is led by BEIS and Ofgem, is currently working to increase co-ordination of offshore transmission to reduce, we hope, the overall amount of new offshore investment that is going to be needed to achieve targets. I hope this reassures my noble friend and that she feels able to withdraw her amendment.

I move on to Amendment 285, in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Moulsecoomb. It is not possible to have too many meetings with the noble Baroness, and so I would be delighted to have more. The Government have always been clear that the development of domestic energy sources, including shale gas, must be safe, both for communities and for the environment. The Minister, Rebecca Pow, offered numerous assurances on this in the other place, and I am very happy to repeat them now.

In November 2019, the Government set out their position in a Written Statement to the House, in which they stated:

“The Government will take a presumption against issuing any further hydraulic fracturing consent.”


As the noble Baroness has explained, the experience of fracking so far has been costly. There are undoubtedly numerous questions about safety and environmental impacts. In respect of fracking and shale gas development, the Government have taken a science-led approach to exploring the potential of the industry, underpinned by strong environmental and safety standards. Following the events during fracking operations in 2019, which the noble Baroness referenced, the Government subsequently introduced the moratorium.

I add that the latest joint annual Statutory Security of Supply Report from BEIS and Ofgem, published on 18 December last year, does not use hydraulically fractured shale gas in any of the security of supply assessments. The Government have no plans to review the moratorium on fracking, nor will we support shale gas exploration unless and until the science demonstrates categorically that it can be done safely for both people and the environment.

I end by thanking all noble Lords for their contributions to this debate. I hope I have been able to reassure your Lordships’ sufficiently, so that my noble friend feels able to withdraw her amendment.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

I am grateful to all noble Lord who have spoken, and give special thanks to the Minister for his full reply. I am delighted to hear of all the work that is currently ongoing. I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, for his support and confirmation of the issues that we heard during the evidence session in the sub-committee on the environment.

I listened very carefully to all the research that my noble friend—if I may call him so—Lord Cameron of Dillington set out on birds. It showed how much need there is for marine life and mammals to be considered. He mentioned Ørsted doing the research into birds. I do not know why, if it is good for private companies to look into birds, it is not good for them also to do research into mammals. I hope that is something that the Government will explore.

I hope also that my noble friend will be able to tell us what the procedure will be for reducing tensions between fishing, shipping and wind farms. As the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, mentioned, if we go down the path of floating structures, I imagine that this could be more of a problem to fishing and shipping as well. I obviously pay tribute to the energy that we are harvesting from the seas, but I am grateful to the Minister for setting out the mitigation measures that the Government have put in place.

I have one final word on fracking, in connection with Amendment 285. There are absolutely no economic grounds for fracking; I think that has been proven in this country and elsewhere. It causes distress to local communities, and there are other means of energy. Look at Denmark as an example. It had a torrid time during the 1973 energy crisis, because it had no energy reserves of any note. It has made a comeback, and now it is in a very strong position, because of renewables. There are other forms of energy.

I think the Government’s position is quite sound, although I am not saying that I would not like to see a permanent ban on fracking—I am well signed up to that. For the moment, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Environment Bill

Debate between Baroness McIntosh of Pickering and Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park

Committee stage
Wednesday 30th June 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord for his comments. It is absolutely not the case that I or the Government have rejected all the arguments put forward today, or indeed in any of the debates we have had. This is a lengthy process of scrutiny, discussion and debate and, as I have said many times, it is unlikely that a Bill that begins this process will end it in exactly the same form. I am as keen as anyone in this Committee—probably keener than most people in this Committee—to ensure that the Bill is as good and strong as it possibly can be. That is why I am very keen to continue discussions with the noble Lord, Lord Anderson, and many other noble Lords on their areas of expertise.

The environmental review is a bespoke and additional jurisdiction, not a replacement vehicle. This is additional—for the court to hear claims outside the usual time limit for judicial review or statutory review. As I said during my speech, the court retains all available remedies where decisions are challenged by way of judicial review within the existing time limits, including, where appropriate, by the OEP. I hope that addresses the noble Lord’s concern.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

Given the strength of feeling in the Committee this afternoon, I hope my noble friend might agree to meet the authors of the amendments before us. I come back to the point that many have referred to from my noble and learned friend Lord Mackay of Clashfern. We are left with the impression that an environmental law is set out before us in the Bill but that a breach of that environmental law does not amount to a breach of the law. That is unsatisfactory.

I also press my noble friend on his comment that rather than have a fine, which would be punitive, it is better to have a compliance effect such as holding the company—it could be a chemical company or a water company—to be in breach through the OEP applying for contempt of court. I am just trying to think how long those proceedings would take after the horse has bolted and the stable door is left open for the damage to carry on. I would still prefer the options in either Amendment 104 or, ideally, Amendment 107A of leaving financial penalties on the table.

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for her comments. I hope I addressed fines and why the prospect of being held in contempt of court is a far greater concern for a Minister than the prospect of the department that Minister belongs to being fined by a Government and the money being recycled through the same Government.

I reiterate that the system we are replacing is not one that can fine those chemical companies or even local authorities—it can deal only directly with member states—so the remit here is far greater than the remit of the system being replaced. I understand that we may have to agree to disagree, but I refer my noble friend to my argument in relation to fines earlier in the discussion.

On her first point, I am of course very happy to have meetings with any number of noble Lords to discuss these issues, as I have throughout this process.

Environment Bill

Debate between Baroness McIntosh of Pickering and Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park

Committee stage
Monday 28th June 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, given all the respect and affection in which I hold him, I am slightly dismayed that my noble friend actually played back at me that “having regard to” worked perfectly well in equalities policy. I actually quoted case law at him. If I may, I would like to submit the case law I have to him so that his legal team can look at it. But I just make a plea: we are about to come on to the office for environmental protection. We are hoping to replicate at national level, throughout the whole of the United Kingdom, very stringent penalties for infringement of environmental policy or principles, such as a chemical spillage or other contamination of water. That is why—I am sure he would agree—we want the fewest referrals possible to any court under a judicial review, we want to be absolutely clear and we need to ensure compliance and have the possibility of financial penalties being imposed, rather than just a very mealy-mouthed “have regard to”.

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I thank my noble friend. I think she offered to submit other examples in case law, and I look forward to seeing what she has to say. I am also willing, if she is willing to speak to me, to talk details in due course.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I hope I went some way at least towards reassuring noble Lords about the robust process for appointing the chair, board members and non-executive directors of the OEP earlier. I would like to provide additional assurance in relation to Amendments 89 and 90 from my noble friend Lady McIntosh of Pickering.

We have carefully designed the OEP for it to effectively deliver its functions in England and over reserved matters. We have designed the appointment and removal processes of OEP members to retain the right balance between ministerial accountability and operational independence. Should it become apparent that a non-executive member of the OEP were unable or unfit to carry out their duties as a member of the OEP board, we would expect this important development to be a subject of significant discussion between the Secretary of State and the OEP chair. As such, it is not necessary to prescribe this on the face of the Bill.

Additionally, in answer to the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, Schedule 1 already sets out the grounds for the removal of a non-executive board member in the unlikely event of them being unable or unfit to carry out their functions. Greater detail on these matters is better dealt with in the terms of appointment for individual non-executive members rather than on the face of the Bill. Should the Secretary of State act disproportionately in the termination of a non-executive member, they will be held to account and scrutinised by Parliament.

I hope that this reassures my noble friend, and I beg her to withdraw the amendments.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I am very grateful for the opportunity to have this little debate and to all those who have contributed. Obviously, I am disappointed that I was not clear enough for my noble friend Lord Trenchard, but I am delighted that, in some way, the noble Lord, Lord Bruce of Bennachie, addressed his concerns ably and effectively. The noble Baroness, Lady Hayman of Ullock, put it very well by saying that there is a need for greater clarity, and it was a professional body—the Law Society of Scotland—that first proposed these amendments.

I take my noble friend’s point that this level of detail was perhaps never intended to be on the face of the Bill, but it would be interesting to know what sort of template there was and, for example, how “disproportionately” would be considered. Clearly, common sense will dictate what disqualifies one from office. Because of some historic misdemeanour that is not of any great consequence, it would be unfortunate to lose a person who would be a good member of the board.

I am grateful to have had the opportunity to raise this, and I am grateful to my noble friend for putting my mind at rest in summing up. I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, I very much hope so. I thank my noble friend Lady McIntosh and the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Whitchurch, for tabling Amendments 92 and 93. I agree, of course, that it is important for the OEP to have certainty regarding its level of funding on a multi-annual basis That is why the Government have committed to providing a multi-annual indicative budget for the OEP, ring-fenced within each spending review period. For transparency, the OEP’s budget will also be given a separate line in Defra’s supply estimate, which will be laid before Parliament to allow for parliamentary scrutiny. This is, nevertheless, an administrative matter, so it is not appropriate to put it on the face of the Bill.

There is also a need to retain flexibility, both initially in light of delays to the Bill due to the Covid-19 pandemic, and should the process for allocating public body budgets ever be reformed at a future date. It is worth pointing out that other bodies with multi-annual funding commitments—the Office for Budget Responsibility, for example—do not have this set out in legislation. The Bill does provide several safeguards on OEP funding. These include a duty on the Secretary of State to fund the OEP sufficiently; in conjunction, the OEP will provide an annual assessment to Parliament of whether it has received sufficient funding. In answer to the noble Baroness, Lady Parminter, the OEP has been given £8 million for its interim stage for this business year.

I hope that this reassures noble Lords and ask them to withdraw the amendment.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

I am grateful to all who have spoken, and I am particularly grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Bruce of Bennachie, for lending his support in co-signing the amendment.

I entirely agree with the noble Lord, Lord Rooker; if you look at paragraph 12 of Schedule 1, it really is not very forthcoming. It just talks about paying

“such sums as the Secretary of State considers … reasonably sufficient to enable the OEP to carry out its functions”,

and then talks of

“subject to such conditions as the Secretary of State may determine”

if there is further assistance by way of grants or loans. I say to the noble Lord, Lord Khan, that both amendments deal with a potential revision; I think the difference in Amendment 93 is if any additional funds are required. To a certain extent, I think that is already addressed in the schedule.

The noble Lord, Lord Bruce of Bennachie, is right that we need to equip the OEP to be in a position to respond rapidly to what we are asking it to do. I am not in a position to say whether £8 million seems low. It does not seem particularly high for its first year, but it depends on whether it is for half a year, assuming that the organisation really only comes into swing properly on 1 July, this week. Perhaps my noble friend could confirm whether it is six, nine or 12 months—I think we are going to have a penalty fine for anybody whose mobile phone goes off in the Chamber, as that one has just done.

The noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie, is absolutely right. I am grateful that my noble friend confirmed that it is an indicative budget, but we do need greater clarity to enable the OEP to do its work, for all the reasons that the noble Lord, Lord Krebs, gave about how out of kilter the Natural England budget is. Obviously, that has not been a blow to Tony Juniper in making these points, because he has gone from strength to strength. I do not think people should be shy of criticising the funding—not the Government themselves—where that is due.

The noble Lord, Lord Cameron of Dillington, said, both in this debate and the previous one, that it is not just the OEP and Natural England that are being kept short of funds. What worries me very much is the fact that the Environment Agency is on the record as saying that it does not have sufficient funds to inspect the rivers. If we are not inspecting the rivers, how is the OEP going to impose the penalties that we wish it to?

I believe this has been a very useful debate. We might want to consider how to address this, if it is necessary, going forward. However, for the moment, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Fishing Industry

Debate between Baroness McIntosh of Pickering and Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park

Wednesday 16th June 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, I do not believe that is the case. Catch limits, known as total allowable catches, have been set for 70 fish stocks at the EU-UK annual negotiations, and the total value of the UK-EU fishing opportunities for the UK in this year is approximately £330 million. This equates to around 160,000 tonnes. In real terms, the access we have across the whole of the United Kingdom has grown, not shrunk.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, the inshore fisheries sector could do well to have an increased quota from just the sort of overseas trawlers’ quota that is now available. Will my noble friend endeavour to keep that under review, and will he ensure that the sustainability of inshore fisheries will not be threatened by the plethora of offshore wind farms to be placed in the North Sea?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I will certainly convey my noble friend’s message to my colleagues in Defra, who I am certain will be willing and able to make that commitment. In relation to the sustainability of inshore fisheries, there is undoubtedly a tension between those activities and new wind farms, but Defra colleagues are confident that those tensions can be ironed out and problems can be avoided.

Environment Bill: Royal Assent

Debate between Baroness McIntosh of Pickering and Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park

Thursday 10th June 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, as the noble Lord says, we have seen significant declines in biodiversity in recent decades. For a target to be successful, there needs to be a strong element of bench- marking, and that will be a feature of the measures we bring in.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

Given the priority that the Government have given this Bill and the fact that most of the detail will be in regulations, will my noble friend commit to publishing the regulations as the Bill is going through, so we have a better idea of the detail and can scrutinise it as we go along?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, I do not think I am in a position to make that commitment, but I will certainly commit to ensuring that the House is presented with as much information as is possible during the passage of the Bill in order that noble Lords can make informed decisions.

Natural Habitats: Infrastructure Projects

Debate between Baroness McIntosh of Pickering and Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park

Monday 26th April 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I cannot unilaterally commit HS2 to doing so, but it should. I will convey that message back to colleagues in Government. HS2 is a nature-positive programme, which has been overlooked too much by some of its opponents. The amount of land being planted with trees, for instance, greatly exceeds the amount of land that will be damaged by the process, and HS2 would do well to tell its story more effectively than it has been doing.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, even though we have left the European Union, can the Minister confirm that we will still be bound by the Council of Europe’s Berne convention, which was the base of the EU habitats, but that the Government will take a more sensible and pragmatic approach under that convention?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con) [V]]

My Lords, the Government are completely committed to ensuring that our environmental protections are not only maintained, but enhanced. We have said so at every opportunity. EU exit gives us the opportunity to improve our existing domestic and legacy EU laws to support those high environmental ambitions and, where appropriate, we should keep all those regulations under review, which we do.

Biodiversity: Aichi Targets

Debate between Baroness McIntosh of Pickering and Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park

Monday 20th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park [V]]

There is no doubt that monoculture is the greatest friend of pandemics and disease and that biological diversity is the greatest buffer and hedge against instability and the kind of dangers that we have seen materialise in recent months. Although the details remain to be worked out at the finest level, we are shifting from the common agricultural policy, where payment is based pretty much on the amount of land turned into farmable land, to a new system of environmental land management that rewards farmers on the basis of their delivery of a public good. That includes environmental stewardship, management of land to slow the flow of water and diversity of species. I very much hope that this move to ELM, which is a world first, will deliver the kind of results for which the noble Baroness asks.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

I am delighted that my noble friend has put nature at the heart of the Government’s biodiversity targets. Will he go one step further? Can we learn the lessons from Covid and accept that food security should be recognised as a public good in the Agriculture Bill?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park [V]]

The Agriculture Bill is winding its way through Parliament as we speak, being expertly delivered by my noble friend Lord Gardiner. The concern about putting food security as a public good is that we are trying to move away from a subsidy system based on rewarding landowners for converting land into land that can produce food. While on the surface, and when it was developed, the old system may have made perfect sense, it has proven to be disastrous. It is clear that the new system has to be designed to ensure that no public money is handed to landowners without a return of some form of public good. We have to be slightly careful about how we define public good and that work is under way. We certainly recognise the value of food production but, on the whole, that is recognised by the market, unlike the environmental benefits that we know landowners, more than anyone else, provide.

Food and Drink: Waste Prevention

Debate between Baroness McIntosh of Pickering and Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park

Wednesday 17th June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park [V]]

The noble Baroness raises a hugely important point. In relation to pubs, the focus of this exchange, we in government are trying hard to encourage the repurposing of spoiled beer. There are vast amounts of it, as I have described. Two obvious alternative options for the use of spoiled beer are animal feed—the Food Standards Agency has confirmed that it is safe and can be handled appropriately—and redirecting it to anaerobic digestion plants. Not all the plants are designed to accommodate spoiled beer, but many can. We are working closely with the UK Former Foodstuffs Processors Association, the Anaerobic Digestion and Bioresources Association and other government departments to ensure that this happens. Of course, the same principle applies to food across the board.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con) [V]]

My Lords, will my noble friend congratulate the water companies on working so closely with the British Beer & Pub Association? They have waived their fees and agreed to collective applications, which is very welcome. Surely to goodness a hoist could be in place, particularly for the smaller brewers, to enable the barrels to be removed. As my noble friend so rightly says, there is a willing market for them in anaerobic digestion.

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park [V]]

I am happy to echo my noble friend’s thanks and congratulations to the water sector. Defra was pleased to confirm that it will waive the usual charge to publicans—around £1,000 to £1,500—for disposing of spoiled beer. It is also taking steps to streamline the beer disposal application process and minimise the administrative burden on publicans. Those steps include allowing bulk applications from pubs and redeploying teams from elsewhere in water companies to focus solely on processing applications from pubs. She is right to identify a possible solution to the problem of the weight of these barrels, which are hard to remove by hand, but other options are being explored as well.

Air Quality and Emissions

Debate between Baroness McIntosh of Pickering and Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park

Tuesday 19th May 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park]

That is a commitment that not only am I happy to make but that the Government as a whole can make. We do not believe that there is a choice between economic recovery and tackling climate change. Indeed, if we are to resolve the issue of climate change and broader environmental damage, it will be because we have reconciled economic growth with the reality that we live in a finite world where our impacts on the planet have direct implications for future generations. In my view, the choice between economic recovery and environmental action is a false one.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, while it is welcome to see more electric buses replacing diesel buses in London and other big cities, can my noble friend explain what sustainable source of energy will drive these buses and all the electric cars that are envisaged for the future?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park]

The Statement made by the Department for Transport a few days ago included increased investment in charging networks throughout our cities, which has direct implications for private car use. Equally, we are ramping up investment in transforming our buses from being in many cases very highly polluting to being as close to zero-emission as possible. On the whole, the dominant thrust in technologies is in the direction of electric travel, but it will be for the market to determine ultimately what is the best value for money in delivering clean transport for the future.

Chemicals Regulation

Debate between Baroness McIntosh of Pickering and Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park

Monday 16th March 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park]

We absolutely recognise that the costs may be substantial. That is why we are aiming to keep the transition to UK REACH as simple and straightforward as possible. We are considering a wide range of measures to minimise the burden and costs for businesses and will continue to work with BEIS, which we of course already work closely with, and the wider industry sector to keep these measures under review. We have developed grace period provisions, grandfathering and downstream user import notifications to minimise disruption to businesses and supply chains at the end of the transition period, while ensuring that UK regulators know which chemicals can legitimately be placed on the market. These measures give businesses two years, starting from the end of 2020, to provide the information required to be compliant with UK REACH

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, will my noble friend commit to the UK remaining a partner of the European Environment Agency? As he will be aware, a leading figure of the Johnson household —no less a figure than Stanley Johnson—was responsible for setting up this agency and is very wedded to remaining. It plays a leading role in terms of chemicals and all sorts of environmental protections. Will the Minister commit to our remaining a member of the EEA?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park]

I have discussed the issue many times with the Johnson in question. We will take decisions based on science and on the best available evidence, including looking at approaches taken by other chemicals regimes right across the world, well beyond the European Union. We will not seek ongoing alignment with the EU regulatory system but we will not diverge simply for the sake of it. There may be good reasons for taking a different approach on a particular substance to reflect UK circumstances, but that does not mean reducing standards or levels of protection. For example, for many years the UK has been at the forefront in opposing animal tests where alternative approaches can be used—the last-resort principle. We could be more rigorous in applying this principle in the future and there are many other examples where we might want to diverge.