Planning and Infrastructure Bill

Debate between Baroness McIntosh of Pickering and Baroness Taylor of Stevenage

Committee stage
Thursday 4th September 2025 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government (Baroness Taylor of Stevenage) (Lab)]

My Lords, that was a very interesting, wide-ranging, detailed and thoughtful debate around many planning matters, including some of the amendments that had been tabled. I am very grateful to all noble Lords who have taken part. As a planning geek myself, it is never a trouble to listen to these types of discussions. I will answer some specific points, but I would like to make a couple of general comments first.

In introducing her amendment, the noble Baroness, Lady Scott, asked for a more radical approach to planning. The noble Lord, Lord Young, set out the radical approach even better than I could myself. I have, of course, heard completely opposing views on the Planning and Infrastructure Bill before us, with one set of people saying that it is too radical and another saying it is not radical enough. I always think that if you get to there, you are probably in about the right place, but your Lordships will be the judge of that.

The Bill is a step in driving forward the infrastructure planning and changes to planning that we want to see in order to get economic growth going, but it is not the only step. As the noble Lord, Lord Young, outlined, as we continue with our planning for new authorities, there will be further change in introducing the strategic plans—that is coming forward in the English Devolution and Community Empowerment Bill. I look forward to debating those changes with noble Lords in due course.

The noble Lord, Lord Young, also mentioned the investment that is needed in planning. We are very aware of the fact that the cuts to local government funding that we all experienced over a couple of decades have meant that the investment in planning was not always there. We have already put £46 million in to try to improve the investment in planning and the quantity and capacity of planning departments. We will continue to work on that.

The noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock, raised the issue of local plans. We are already making progress on that. The Secretary of State has made it very clear to local authorities that she expects to see local plans in place. You jeopardise the whole process of development in this country when you get an out-of-date local plan, and developers can ride roughshod over local wishes because there is no local plan in place. It is a very important part of the process. The noble Lord, Lord Young, raised the issue of how these local plans will be reconstructed when we get new authorities in place. Of course, much of the work will have been done. We will not need to redo all the studies; they can be aggregated into those wider plans. But it is important that those plans will be in place.

To pick up a point that is not in these amendments, I say to the noble Lord, Lord Fuller, that I am aware of the issue with level 7 apprenticeships in planning. I was very keen on planning apprenticeships and having that route to good quality and more capacity in planning teams. I am discussing that with colleagues in the Department for Education and will comment on that further when I have had more discussions with them.

Turning now to Amendments 94FB and 94 FC, tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Scott, I understand the importance of ensuring that local planning authorities or the Mayor of London are not burdened with unnecessary obligations, particularly in relation to fee setting. That is why I want to be very clear. The Government’s intention is to pursue a local variation model. The approach will not require local planning authorities or the Mayor of London to set their own fees but instead provides those authorities with the option to vary from a national default planning fee where they consider it necessary to do so to better meet their costs.

However, we believe it is important to retain a flexibility within that power. The inclusion of “or require” preserves the ability to mandate local fee setting should there be a compelling case for it in the future—for example, to improve service delivery or address disparities in performance. Removing that flexibility would risk constraining our future ability to evolve the system. The noble Lord, Lord Lansley, talked about how we will monitor planning performance. He will know very well that an extensive planning monitoring regime in already in place, which local authorities have to meet. Keeping an eye on this, as well, will help with that. I hope the noble Baroness will agree that retaining this power in its current form represents a balanced and prudent approach and that she will agree to withdraw her amendment.

I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Thornhill, for tabling Amendment 94G. I am entirely in accord with her on the importance of ensuring that fees are proportionate to the nature and size of the planning application. In her very clear explanation of her amendment, she rightly highlighted the importance of our SME building sector, which we also saw highlighted, as she will remember, in the report of the Competition and Markets Authority. I share her intent to do all we can to support SMEs. Indeed, it was a local SME builder who helped me kick off my housing development programme when I was a council leader. It was a mutual arrangement—we helped support them and they helped support what we were doing. There can be very good arrangements locally.

However, the Bill already provides a clear and robust framework to ensure that planning fees are proportionate. The noble Lord, Lord Fuller, and the noble Earl, Lord Lytton, mentioned the proportionality issue. As I just mentioned, the Government intend to introduce a local variation model under which a nationally set default fee, developed through benchmarking and public consultation, will serve as a baseline, as is currently the case with planning fees. To answer the noble Baronesses, Lady Thornhill and Lady Neville-Rolfe, this will account for variations in the size and nature of sites.

The model ensures both consistency and transparency in fee setting while allowing local planning authorities the flexibility to depart from the nationally set default fee where circumstances warrant. The Bill requires that any locally set fee must not exceed the cost of delivering the relevant service—I hope that picks up the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Lansley—and that local communities must be consulted on proposed changes. Importantly, the Secretary of State will also retain the power to intervene where fees are considered inappropriate, thereby providing an important safeguard to uphold consistency and equity across the system. I am therefore confident that the Bill already addresses the concerns that this amendment seeks to resolve.

On Amendment 95, tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, I agree that well-resourced planning departments are essential in enabling the development that our communities need, but also for safeguarding those communities from unauthorised or harmful development. We appreciate the intention of the amendment in supporting the resourcing of enforcement activity but, as planning enforcement serves the wider public interest, it is appropriate for local authorities to allocate funds to support these services. Allowing planning authorities to raise planning fees to cover enforcement costs could result in disproportionately high fees. We are concerned that that may deter development at a time when we are committed to accelerating housing delivery and getting Britain building.

To answer the noble Baroness’s question directly, this was not an oversight in drafting the Bill; we did consider it. More broadly, the Government have, as I have already mentioned, committed to the £46 million package of investment to support the capacity and capability of local planning authorities.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

I am most grateful for the Minister’s response to the amendment. My concern is that it looks as though the Government are going to build on functional flood plains. That is why the role of property resilience measures is so important, and why the enforcement should be included in the fees. So, I hope she will think again.

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

I am grateful to the noble Baroness for that and for her long-standing lobbying on flooding issues. We have a group of amendments later today on flooding. I hope that I can pick up some of the questions she has raised under those amendments.

I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Parkinson, for his Amendment 96, which seeks to ensure that guidance to local planning authorities on setting planning fees explicitly advises them to include the costs of essential services, such as archaeology, provided by local authorities. We recognise that, especially in two-tier areas, planning authorities may need to obtain expertise from other authorities to determine applications. Where local authorities choose to set their own fees, they will be expected to take account of the costs incurred in obtaining such contributions and reflect them appropriately in their fee-setting process.

As I have just highlighted, we are currently undertaking a national benchmarking exercise and engaging with local planning authorities to develop a consistent and evidence-based approach to local fee setting. A consultation on the national default fee schedule and the framework for local fee setting will then be published later this year. These matters are best addressed through secondary legislation and detailed guidance, as that provides the flexibility we may need—I can see the noble Lord nodding; he has probably given that answer himself from the Dispatch Box—to respond to evolving practice and local circumstances. That is particularly true in planning, which is such a dynamic area. As such, I do not consider it necessary to place the requirement in primary legislation.

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[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, for tabling these amendments, and the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty, the noble Lord, Lord Foster, and the noble Baroness, Lady Scott, for their comments. I share the desire of the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, to ensure that new developments do not place unreasonable restrictions on existing businesses and are integrated effectively into their surroundings, and the point that the noble Baroness, Lady Scott, just made that live music venues are the things that make our communities vibrant and alive. We have just had our fantastic Old Town Live festival in Stevenage, in a series of music venues right along our high street; they are the things that bring people together and make it a good place to live.

The agent of change principle is already embedded in the National Planning Policy Framework. I reiterate my comments earlier that, although the National Planning Policy Framework is not a statutory document in itself, it forms part of the statutory planning process. The Government are clear that where the operation of an existing business or community facility could have a significant adverse effect on a new development in its vicinity, the applicant or agent of change is responsible for providing suitable mitigation before the development has been completed.

Local planning authorities can also use planning conditions to make developments acceptable by addressing specific concerns, such as environmental impacts from noise pollution—for instance, by the use of engineering to reduce noise at source, or the use of noise insulation to mitigate the impact of noise on residents. Where they receive complaints, local authorities are obliged to take reasonably practicable steps to investigate. This allows them to consider a variety of factors in determining whether a complaint constitutes a nuisance in the eyes of the law. Additionally, local licensing authorities can incorporate the agent of change principle into their statement of licensing policy if they consider it useful to do so. This is at their discretion, as they are best placed to understand their own local context.

I understand the desire to embed these principles into law, but we believe this to be unnecessary given the provisions that already exist. It also risks increasing the number of legal challenges to developments. We will continue considering how the agent of change principle can be better implemented within the planning system through national planning policy reform. For these reasons, I kindly ask the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, to withdraw her amendment.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I am extremely grateful for the support I have received from those who have spoken, in particular the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty, the noble Lord, Lord Foster, and my noble friend Lady Scott.

The Minister is missing the point. Each of those who spoke explained how the NPPF is not working because it is not on a statutory basis, and that the integration and harmony we would like to see between residential properties and businesses is being harmed by this. The very fact that one of the venues that Ed Sheeran sang at early in his career has since closed, along with the other examples we heard from the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty, shows the importance of this.

I again ask the Minister whether she would be minded to have a meeting before Report with those who have expressed an interest in this area today, because I really believe that we need to progress this and put it on a statutory footing. In the meantime, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Planning and Infrastructure Bill

Debate between Baroness McIntosh of Pickering and Baroness Taylor of Stevenage

Committee stage
Thursday 17th July 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

My Lords, Amendments 26, 27, 32, 35, 39 and 42 were tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh. I am grateful to her for her amendments, and I thank the noble Baronesses, Lady Coffey and Lady Pinnock, for their comments. The noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock, referred to throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I am afraid that, in this instance, the baby has become so fat that it cannot even get out of the bath, never mind be thrown out.

As I have outlined over the course of this debate, these amendments seek to undo a number of amendments tabled by the Government in the other place to remove the statutory requirement for applicants to consult in the preparation of an application. Given that this significant change was introduced during the Bill’s passage—a point I accept from all noble Lords who have mentioned it—I will outline again the Government’s motivations for making the change.

A particular aspect of concern has been the increasing length of time spent at the pre-application stage, resulting from the way that statutory requirements are being complied with. As outlined, consultation has become a tick-box exercise—the very one I was referring to earlier—that encourages risk aversion and gold-plating. We have therefore concluded that these requirements are now serving to slow schemes down rather than speed them up, and that the consultation taking place is not meaningful to the people involved. It just becomes that tick-box exercise.

In bringing in these changes, we want to speed up the typical period taken to submit applications and further save money in this Parliament’s pipeline of projects. We are committed to sustaining a planning system that encourages high-quality applications and delivers benefits to the nation and local communities. We all know that high-quality applications are those that have been developed through early and meaningful engagement with those impacted, including local authorities, statutory consultees, communities and landowners. Affected individuals will, of course, still be able to object to applications, provide evidence of impacts on them and participate in the process through which applications are examined.

As I have explained, in making this change the Government are clear that this signifies not that consultation and engagement are no longer important but just that the current system is not working well for either developers or communities. Guidance will be forthcoming on how engagement can be undertaken so that applicants can produce high-quality applications. We look forward to engagement on this matter. I take the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Jamieson, about consultation on consultation—he is right—but, in this case, it is necessary.

The Planning Inspectorate will continue to consider whether an application is suitable to proceed to examination and be examined under statutory timeframes. The guidance will outline best practice—to answer the point made by the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh. I cannot give her any absolute detail yet because, as we said, we are consulting on it, but it will outline the best practice, which will involve pre-application engagement. The Planning Inspectorate, on behalf of the Secretary of State, will continue to issue advice to applicants under Section 51 of the Act and have regard to the extent to which applicants have had regard to the advice. These changes will provide flexibility so that applicants can undertake engagement in the way they consider best for their proposed development in accordance with that guidance. I therefore kindly ask the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, to withdraw her amendment.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

I am grateful to the Minister for her remarks, and to all who spoke. I meant to give a big shout-out to the clerks in the Public Bill Office. I know how hard our Front Bench and the Government Front Bench are working, but I understand that there are only four clerks in the Public Bill Office, who are assisting us with all our amendments, so I am deeply grateful to them for their assistance in this regard.

I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock, and my noble friends Lady Coffey and Lord Jamieson for their support. The noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock, made a good point about reforming, not removing. Together with the loss of hope value and the new provisions on the compulsory purchase of land that we will come to later, I find it staggering how shabbily treated farmers and landowners are by this Government. I am sure there will be plenty more opportunities to elaborate on those arguments.

I understand that the Government are consulting on the guidance at the moment, but it is regrettable that we are not in possession of the guidance before we are asked to remove Clause 4, or at least to reintroduce the consultation at pre-application stage of category 1 and category 2 persons. It seems profoundly undemocratic—profoundly rude, in the words of the noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock—and I will consider whether or not to bring this back at a later stage. But, for the moment, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Housing Associations: Financial Assistance

Debate between Baroness McIntosh of Pickering and Baroness Taylor of Stevenage

Thursday 3rd July 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

I am grateful to my noble friend for that question. As well as the financial support that we announced yesterday, there is a significant package of delivery to help support our colleagues in local government and in the registered provider sector, supporting the planning process with additional funding for planners, setting clear targets for housing delivery, investing in the skills and capacities I outlined, working to help accelerate stalled sites through the major sites accelerator, helping with the delivery of infrastructure through the Planning and Infrastructure Bill—which we will debate shortly—looking forward very much to the New Towns Taskforce and its work, and ensuring that we stabilise the economy to attract the investment we need in housing after 14 years of failure that led to the housing crisis.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

The noble Baroness will be aware that there is a crying need for one-bedroom and two-bedroom houses in rural areas. That need is not fulfilled because the houses that are being built have three, four or five bedrooms. The affordable homes that form part of a planning application are often resiled from on intervention from the Secretary of State. Will the noble Baroness use her good offices to review the position to ensure that there is a stable supply of one-bedroom and two-bedroom homes in rural areas?

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

The Government genuinely understand the need for homes in rural areas, and we have focused on the rural exception site type of policies that allow local areas to ring-fence that housing for local need. We will continue to do that. It is for local authorities to determine the types of housing, both through the planning process and in their local plans. In the National Planning Policy Framework, which was published in December, we have for the first time allowed local authorities to make provision specifically for their social housing needs, which I hope will help in rural areas.

Planning Reforms: Energy and Housing Costs

Debate between Baroness McIntosh of Pickering and Baroness Taylor of Stevenage

Thursday 15th May 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

My Lords, it is important that, as we go forward with our ambitious target to build 1.5 million homes, we take care of the environment at the same time. Natural England’s role in that, which the noble Lord points to, is key in developing the plans that will protect nature as we build those homes. I understand the concerns that he and other noble Lords have about the resources in Natural England. We are working very closely with it, and we will provide it with additional resources to help it deliver with us what I do not think is a contradiction: the development and infrastructure that we all want to see, while protecting our precious natural environment at the same time.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords—

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[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

I am sorry, but the noble Lord is quite wrong in his assumption. We are prioritising building on brownfield sites. I know he has a particular bugbear about London; I was with the Mayor of London just last week and was very pleased to see his review of the use of the green belt in London as part of the work on the London Plan. I was interested to hear that, of the half a million hectares of green belt in London, just 13% is made up of parks and accessible green space. The mayor is making progress on this, and so are we. Brownfield will always be our first choice, but we are looking at grey-belt and green-belt development as well.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

Will the Minister look carefully at the cumulative impact on rural and coastal communities of major infrastructure projects? When an offshore planning application is made for a wind farm, it is causing real distress: before people realise it, they have substations to take the electricity on board, and then lines of pylons. What steps will the Government take to alleviate this situation?

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

We now have a land-use framework from Defra, and we will be producing a long-term housing strategy, which will include information about how we intend to work in rural areas. I hope the noble Baroness will contribute to the consultation on that. It is of course very important that we develop the infrastructure we need as a country and continue our move towards a clean-energy future. That will mean some use of land in rural and urban areas, but that can sometimes be exaggerated. The figure my noble friend the Energy Minister often cites is that, at the moment, our plans mean that 0.1% of land would be used for solar farms. So we have to be careful about over-exaggerating the issue, but the noble Baroness’s point is well made and we do need to protect good-quality agricultural land—that is our intention—as well as making sure we build what we need.

Car Parking Companies

Debate between Baroness McIntosh of Pickering and Baroness Taylor of Stevenage

Tuesday 4th February 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

I think many local authorities would say that the fees and charges that they charge for parking help with the enormous gap in funding that they have faced in the last 14 years, and that is one of the reasons why they do it. It is for the voters of the local areas to decide whether or not the parking policies in their area are sound; local people can challenge parking policies if they wish to.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

Does the Minister share my concern about the level of hospital parking charges, which seem to be completely unregulated? Will she look at this at the earliest opportunity?

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

I am sorry: I missed the start of the noble Baroness’s question.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

Will the noble Baroness look at the astronomically high level of hospital parking charges, which seem to go completely unregulated?

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

Once again, I understand the frustrations about this. It is for hospital trusts to decide how they manage their own parking arrangements, and people can challenge that. However, I appreciate that there are significant issues in that respect. I am sorry to keep repeating it, but if the noble Baroness wishes to put in a submission to the consultation, I would be grateful to hear from her.

Planning Committees: Reform

Debate between Baroness McIntosh of Pickering and Baroness Taylor of Stevenage

Thursday 12th December 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

The noble Lord is quite right to pick up this point. It is the intention that, where applications are in conformity with the local plan, a speedy decision should be taken. The whole point of these reforms is intended to make that much easier, without removing the ability of local councillors and communities to make their views known on it. This is a working paper for discussion with the sector, and we hope that the sector will put its views forward. The intention is to speed up the process, not to have planning applications stuck in the system.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I had the honour to chair the Select Committee on the review of the Licensing Act 2003. One of our most powerful conclusions was that planning and licensing committees should be merged, and that there should be consistent and frequent training of planning and licensing officers before they take their place on these committees. Is that something that the Government might look favourably on introducing? It would increase the effectiveness of the local voice and the way in which planning and licensing committees operate.

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

The noble Baroness is absolutely right. I must admit that, at my local authority, you had to have training before you went on the planning committee, and I had assumed that that was the case everywhere. It is not. Part of the consultation on the working paper is the introduction of mandatory training. We are considering a wide range of implementation options, and we look forward to working with stakeholders. There are great examples of training around the country. However, it is inconsistent—more inconsistent than I had realised—and we need to find out where the best practice is so that we can work nationally on that issue. I totally agree with her point that the public will have more confidence if they know that people have had training.

Spending Commitments to Local Councils

Debate between Baroness McIntosh of Pickering and Baroness Taylor of Stevenage

Monday 22nd July 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I congratulate the noble Baroness most warmly on her new position. I remind her that she spoke from these Benches less than two months ago saying that the existing spending commitments for local councils on drainage authorities were insufficient. Does she still hold that view?

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

My Lords, we all know that for too long funding and support for local leaders has been fragmented and inconsistent, and the noble Baroness rightly raises the issue of those authorities that have drainage levies imposed on them. We will continue to look at that issue. I did raise it and indeed I have had correspondence since I took up this new role, so we will continue to look at that.