Protocol on Ireland/Northern Ireland: EU Proposals

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Thursday 21st October 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Frost (Con)]

My Lords, my team has been in discussion with the EU on this subject all week. We are seeking to understand the detail that underlies some of the headline claims that the EU has made. It is possible that we do not fully understand that detail yet, but perhaps that will come. One aspect of the EU proposals that I am excited about is that they show that what previously it has considered impossible—changing its own laws for the special circumstances of Northern Ireland—is now possible. That is a very important and welcome step, and I hope the EU might be able to go further than the proposals it put on the table last week.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

I think my noble friend would agree that the Northern Ireland protocol is an integral part of the withdrawal agreement. Does he not share my concern that, if we go back and seek to renegotiate the Northern Ireland protocol, we will open up and have to renegotiate the withdrawal agreement as well?

[Lord Frost (Con)]

My Lords, the protocol has always been a somewhat separable bit of the withdrawal agreement, in the sense that it was renegotiated after the first version of the withdrawal agreement was agreed back at the start of 2019. It is to some extent free-standing in that sense, so I do not think that opening it up should affect wider parts of the deal. It is a text that is there to deal with a very specific problem, and therefore we need to find the correct, very specific solution.

Health and Social Care Levy Bill

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

2nd reading & Order of Commitment discharged & 3rd reading
Monday 11th October 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I congratulate the Government on at least tackling what is a very vexatious part of government policy. I refer to my interests: the work I do with the Dispensing Doctors’ Association and the fact that I was a dispensing doctor’s daughter and a dispensing doctor’s sister.

There has been very little focus today on the delivery of care in people’s own homes, as opposed to care homes. Through dispensing doctors and rural practitioners generally, and indeed those delivering care in people’s own homes, I am very familiar with the fact that delivering NHS and social care in rural areas is more challenging and therefore costs more than in more urban settings. How do my noble friend the Minister and the Treasury expect that to be addressed through both the raising and the spending of the money raised through the levy? There used to be a sparsity and rurality factor in NHS funding, and it would be very welcome to return to that if we can. How will funding apply to and be highlighted for the delivery of care to the elderly in their own homes in rural settings?

I come to the points raised by my noble friend Lord Lansley about those who are elderly with comorbidities, who are often taken into hospital as an emergency and then find it difficult to be released from that setting into their own homes. I regret the fact that many of the community hospitals and wards that used to take them as a step-up, step-down halfway house before they were deemed safe to return home have disappeared. It is important that the release of these patients and their discharge from hospitals to their own homes is highlighted in the way the levy can be used.

Therefore, I would particularly like to ask my noble friend what proportion of the extra money raised in the earlier years will be allocated to the health service especially. How will that money be distributed between primary and secondary care? At the moment, we are seeing that, where primary care does not have the resources to deliver, people of whatever age—but particularly the elderly, with comorbidities—are turning up and being treated as an emergency in hospitals.

I would also like to ask, because the Bill does not set this out, at what point my noble friend will address the urgent problem of staff shortages, which a number of noble Lords have addressed this afternoon. There is clearly a shortage of nurses, and I saw that as recently as last week, when a family member was treated, excellently, by the NHS; there is clearly a shortage of nurses and doctors, and, I may add, carers too. When will my noble friend address that and when will the Government come forward with proposals for our consideration?

Finally, I would like to say how regrettable it is that this regressive form of tax is being chosen. There are alternatives. The least favourable option for me would be an insurance scheme, which I know operates in many parts of continental Europe, such as Denmark. I find it quite alarming that, when a member of my family in Denmark calls an ambulance, they have to produce the payment and show they have the coverage before they are whisked off to hospital. For me, that is probably the least favourable option. But I regret that the form that has been chosen in this Bill is the most regressive. As the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, pointed out in the Government’s own tax information and impact note, it will impact on those who are just about managing at the moment.

I would like to point out something that the Government do not seem to have any recognition or cognisance of at all. By raising the levy on national insurance, the Government are taking money out of care and hospital care. Who are the largest employers in the country at the present time? The NHS and local authorities, and many noble Lords have referred to the fact that council budgets have already come under severe restraint. They are our two largest employers at the moment. The same tax information and impact note refers to the fact that:

“This measure is expected to have a significant impact on over 1.6 million employers who will be required to introduce this change.”


What the note and the Bill fail to reflect is that both the NHS and local authorities will have to find this money.

My final question to my noble friend is this: what estimate have the Government made of the cost to the NHS, local authorities and other employers of this additional 1.25%? How are the Government going to make good that money to make sure that patient care is not depleted in the same degree?

Net-zero Emissions Target

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Monday 11th October 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Agnew of Oulton (Con)]

My Lords, we already do a great deal to support those on lower incomes. We have a number of schemes to support those who are under pressure financially and at risk of higher energy prices. We will, of course, keep all those measures under review.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

Will my noble friend ensure that the Government commit water companies to reach their net-zero targets by ending the automatic right to connect for massive new housing developments where water companies simply cannot accommodate the huge amounts of waste water required in antiquated Victorian pipes?

[Lord Agnew of Oulton (Con)]

My Lords, there are currently no restrictions to water companies raising funds to make investments in reaching net zero, and water companies are able to submit plans for such investment to Ofwat as part of the price control. The Government are currently consulting on the strategic direction for the water sector. This consultation outlines the expectation that Ofwat will contribute towards protecting and enhancing the environment and will appropriately challenge water companies’ plans to deliver the change needed in the water sector to meet net zero.

Imports from EU to GB: Business Preparation

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Thursday 16th September 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

Of course, the greatest free market was the single market, which we very sadly left. My noble friend negotiated very successfully the trade and co-operation agreement. Will he use his good offices to ensure that this world-class border, which we would all welcome, will lead to a single portal for documentation that will be largely online? If he finds that we have trained most of the EU drivers that have left and gone back to their respective countries, could we at least give them a short-term visa to come back and help us out over the Christmas period—the noble Lord, Lord Grantchester, suggested that we might need this?

[Lord Frost (Con)]

My Lords, I agree of course with my noble friend that an aspiration for a world-class border is very important; that is where we intend to go. Indeed, we hope that the so-called single trade window —a single portal—will be a very significant part of that, as we take this forward. As regards HGV drivers, my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Transport has, on a couple of occasions, set out our plans to make it easier to increase the supply of drivers, and I am sure that that will bear fruit very soon.

Devolved Administrations

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Thursday 16th September 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord True (Con)]

No, my Lords. I do understand that there have been rhetoric and statements about this. I repeat what I said to the noble Baroness opposite: the Government are deeply committed to strengthening the union. Part of that, obviously, is showing full and appropriate respect to our partners in the devolved Administrations. I think that, when your Lordships come to see the outcome, it will be understood that the new intergovernment relations protocol and approaches will fully reflect that mutual respect.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

Will my noble friend look very carefully at areas where co-operation and collaboration are perhaps not working as effectively as they might? On a ministerial call with regulators in Scotland—the Faculty of Advocates, of which I am a non-practising member, and the Law Society of Scotland—concern was expressed that regulations implementing the primary legislation of the Professional Qualifications Bill, once adopted, might be passed without consultation with either them or the devolved Administrations. Will my noble friend give the House an undertaking that no regulations will be passed without prior consultation and consent?

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, I am not directly responsible for the professional qualifications legislation, so I am loath to give an incautious answer, but obviously I will refer my noble friend’s comments to those who are considering these matters.

European Union (Future Relationship) Act 2020 (References to the Trade and Cooperation Agreement) Regulations 2021

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Wednesday 21st July 2021 Grand Committee

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

I am grateful for the opportunity to speak to the regulation before us and to follow my noble friend Lady Wheatcroft. I thank my noble friend Lord True for introducing the regulation and I sympathise with him having to isolate in what is meant to be freedom week, which has not gone quite according to how everyone had hoped.

I take the starting point that my noble friend set out, that this is purely technical in nature and that it came about from the fact that the process of correcting and checking all the cross-references for consistency usually takes place before signature. However, I wonder whether, for example, if there has been an extension of the grace period already for goods travelling not just from Great Britain to Northern Ireland but also in some cases goods travelling from the UK to the whole of the EU and the reverse, there will be any consequential changes if that grace period is either extended again or if further changes are made? As I understand it, that goes to the heart of what was agreed in the trade and co-operation agreement. The sooner we make the changes, the better, but I would just like to know that there are no further consequential changes in part.

I am hearing a lot from the food industry that it is particularly concerned that we do not seem to be on track yet to making the changes by the deadline—I honestly cannot remember whether it is 1 October or 31 October. So I would like confirmation from my noble friend that either the grace period is going to be extended again or we are going to have a revision to the trade and co-operation agreement to try to soften the blow.

The figures that I have from the food industry were issued in the third week of June. They make the point that the reduction in trade is due not just to the fact that we have left the EU but to the ongoing impacts of the Covid-19 pandemic. The fact that a number of Ministers and others are having to isolate makes the point, not just that there is a shortage of lorry drivers already but that lorry drivers and deliveries are being severely challenged at this time because of the further requirements to isolate because of the ping pandemic as opposed to the Covid pandemic.

Does my noble friend share the concern that all the UK’s top 10 products exported to the EU have fallen significantly in value in the period 2019-21? Whisky has dropped by 32.3%, chocolate—although I do not think many of us will be eating chocolate in the present heat—has dropped by 36.9%, lamb and mutton have dropped by the lesser amount of 14.3% and dairy products have been severely impacted. I would be interested to see whether the figures are expected to revive, if my noble friend has access to the figures, in the third quarter in the run-up to September.

I share the concerns expressed most eloquently by my noble friend Lady Wheatcroft regarding the ongoing procedures under the Northern Ireland protocol. Coupled with our reduction in trade with the EU, the pandemic and the shortage of lorry drivers, a mood is arising that we are going to have a very difficult run-up to Christmas. I say that as I have the honour to be the honorary president of the United Kingdom Warehousing Association, whose members are being impacted by the fact that they do not have enough drivers to empty the supplies that they have in their warehousing. Obviously, perishable foods are a particular concern, given the heat at this time of year.

I take the point made by my noble friend in introducing this instrument so thoroughly and taking great pains to say that this is purely technical. I just want to be convinced that there have not been any consequential changes to the initial grace period—as I imagine there would have been, since it was enshrined pretty definitely that the grace period was meant to end on, I think, 1 March or 1 April—or to be told if there will be any consequential changes to the trade and co-operation agreement through an extension of the grace period from October. With those remarks, I welcome this opportunity to address the changes set out in the instrument.

Post-Brexit Financial Settlement

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Thursday 15th July 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Frost (Con)]

We certainly stand by the financial agreement that we negotiated in the withdrawal agreement. As I said, it was very carefully negotiated at some length, and of course we stand by it and the payments that are due under it.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I am particularly grateful to my noble friend for committing the Government to this legal obligation; that is very welcome. Will he further confirm that the sums of money being discussed in this Question are going towards the Horizon programme, which is in the present spending review, and from which many UK companies will benefit greatly?

[Lord Frost (Con)]

My Lords, yes, these are significant sums, and the sums involved in the Horizon project and programme are also significant. We have a difficulty with the Horizon programme, in that, at the moment, our participation is still being blocked by the EU, even though all the legal processes behind it are in place. We very much hope that that block can be lifted soon and that UK universities and others with an interest can participate in the programme.

Public Procurement (International Trade Agreements) (Amendment) Regulations 2021

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Tuesday 15th June 2021 Grand Committee

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for the opportunity to debate these regulations, which I presume are the first that we are looking at under the Trade Act 2021. I welcome that agreements have been reached with such a wide range of countries—I particularly note Vietnam, Japan and Singapore. Could my noble friend again confirm the limit to the public procurement under the global procurement strategy to which he referred—it was the equivalent of €100,000 or $100,000? Like my noble friend Lord Lansley, I welcome the fact that we have not gone down the path of opening up competition to the National Health Service.

As my noble friend Lord True will recall, when we debated these issues earlier, my one regret was I had hoped that, now that we have left the European Union, our farmers and producers in particular would benefit from selling their produce—meat, fruit or vegetables—and being a source of more domestically grown produce for our public institutions, such as hospitals, schools and others. That being the case, and given the fact that the cost of exporting to many of these countries, and the carbon footprint, would be quite large, does my noble friend envisage that there may be opportunities for our agricultural producers and horticulturalists to export to some of the countries covered by this agreement?

Paragraph 7.2 of the Explanatory Memorandum says that the instrument specifically does not apply to future trade agreements, as my noble friend set out so eloquently—he specifically mentioned Australia and New Zealand—and that separate legislation will be required. I understand that we are only entering into the finer details of our negotiations with Australia, but when does my noble friend expect that legislation to come before the House in that regard?

I will follow up the point that my noble friend Lord Lansley raised about the CRaG procedure. Obviously, there is an issue that the Select Committee should have the earliest possible opportunity to consider the detail of future trade agreements. I add to that my concern: my understanding is that the Trade and Agriculture Commission has not yet been appointed as a new body —it has no chairman or members—yet we are proceeding apace with existing rollover continuity agreements and proceeding to negotiate new ones. Does my noble friend have an idea of, and timetable for the appointment of its new chairman and members?

I reiterate the point made by the Trade and Agriculture Commission’s outgoing chairman, Tim Smith, in the report that it submitted: he specifically states that the timing is absolutely key and that, in exactly the same way as the Select Committees on international agreements of both Houses, the Trade and Agriculture Commission should have the earliest possible opportunity to look at these agreements. Will my noble friend confirm that the new Trade and Agriculture Commission will not be presented with a fait accompli in the case of a trade agreement with Australia, New Zealand or the United States, but rather that it will be able to do the work that we are asking it to do and will—if it will not be consulted on the negotiating mandate, which I would prefer—have the earliest possible notice or sight of it?

My noble friend will be all too familiar with the fact that, in part 1 of the National Food Strategy report, the government adviser Henry Dimbleby and all those who served in producing it made these points very eloquently and forcefully. I understand that, regrettably, the Government have responded privately to part 1, and it would be helpful if we could all see the contents of that reply. With those few remarks, I welcome the opportunity to have debated these agreements, and I look forward to reviewing further ones.

I have one final question. Paragraph 6.2 of the Explanatory Memorandum states:

“The section 2 power is in place for five years from IP completion day, and can be extended for a further five-year period by Parliament, subject to the agreement of both Houses.”


If it were to be extended, would we have the opportunity to look at these regulations again, or is this a one-off? I also note that paragraph 10.1 states:

“There has been no consultation on this instrument.”


From what my noble friend Lord True said at the outset in so ably moving these regulations, I understood that the Government have the authority to work on behalf of the devolved Administrations of Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. What was the forum giving that consent?

With those few remarks, I am delighted to support these regulations.

UK–EU Trade and Co-operation Agreement: Meetings of Bodies

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Thursday 27th May 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Frost (Con)]

The noble Lord is right, in that the trade and co-operation agreement is an extremely broad treaty, with a very wide agenda. That is why it requires so many committees to make it work. I can reassure him that it is certainly our objective to make sure that the committees work, and that they meet, if at all possible, before the summer break. We have already exchanged with the EU lists of chairs of the committees, and I am confident that we will move forward fairly quickly on all this.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

Does my noble friend agree that if the trade specialised committee on SPS measures had been set up and had actually met, we might be in a better place as regards cross-border trade issues between Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and between the UK and the EU? Will he endeavour to ensure that it meets at least once before the end of June, to resolve these issues?

[Lord Frost (Con)]

My Lords, unfortunately, I am not sure that I agree with my noble friend that we would be in a significantly different position if that committee had met. There have been quite a lot of discussions on SPS issues in various contexts over the past few months, although the committee has not met formally, and we have not managed to find constructive agreements on that subject—although we keep trying. I am confident that the committee will meet before the summer break, and of course we continue to discuss these matters extensively with the EU.

Mobile Telephones: Public Emergency Alert System

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Wednesday 21st April 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, I have given that assurance to the House. As I said in my Answer, the timing has to be carefully aligned with the Covid-19 strategy to avoid confusion. The proposition is for a cell message that drops down and does not collect any personal information from those who receive it. It is a specific approach.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, it is extremely important, if we have a public emergency alert system, that it works in rural and upland areas, as well as elsewhere. I am excited that we can now piggyback mobile phones on to emergency services. Will my noble friend take this opportunity to ensure that mobile phone connectivity is improved by, for example, piggybacking on North Yorkshire Police and other emergency services, so that such a system of using emergency alerts works across the country, in rural as well as urban areas?

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, that is slightly wider than my responsibility, but the Government are committed to extending coverage as far and as fast as they possibly can. On the specific question, emergency alerts will be available for the whole United Kingdom. Telecoms is a reserved matter, but the Government intend to work with the DAs to enable them to use this new capability within their own jurisdictions to save lives in an emergency.