National Insurance Contributions (Secondary Class 1 Contributions) Bill

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Committee stage
Tuesday 21st January 2025 Grand Committee

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall) (Lab)]

My Lords, I feel that it would have been more sensible to take up residence in the Lobbies, but we have not done that. Another vote is expected imminently but, for now, I call the Minister.

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

My Lords, in answer to the point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Neville-Rolfe, as I have said, the Government and the OBR have already set out the impacts of the policy change. The information provided is in line with the approach for other tax changes and the Government do not intend to publish additional assessments.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Earl of Kinnoull (CB)]

My Lords, I rise to speak to the charitable themes of Amendment 5. I declare my interests, as set out in the register, as a trustee of three charities in Perth and Kinross which employ people. The number of people that they employ ranges from 30 to 130. In particular, I am chair of Culture Perth and Kinross, which employs about 130 people, which is equivalent to 98 full-time people.

Culture Perth and Kinross has 14 libraries and two museums and, as a charity, we run those things. I have been the chair for nine years. Of course, in the winter, these 16 locations are warm spaces for the people in Perth and Kinross. Although Perth and Kinross has an image which is quite ritzy, it is actually rather a poor place. Statistically, it is one of the poorer places in Scotland, which is statistically poorer than England. As such, we on the board, which is made up of local people of every description, focus very much on that aspect of our community service.

I should say that the local council involved is also not very well funded and at the maximum of its borrowings. Of course, it has suffered from the way in which the Scottish Government have dealt with local council funding over the years. We have a very good relationship with the extremely hard-working chief executive of that council. When we have money problems, we cannot go to it. Our money is essentially fixed some way beforehand. We get a lot from the council and some from the Scottish Government; we get some from generous charities, and we have a few individuals who give us money as well, including some who serve on the board. However, our money is fixed.

I asked to have the figures made available for this debate, and the figure for us is £124,000 extra. About a third of that is the increase from 13.8% to 15%. About two-thirds of that is the reduction in the limit as it comes in because, in our 98 full-time-equivalent posts—occupied by 133 people—we employ quite a lot of people who do a small number of hours, and we made use of that space of between £5,000 and £9,100 over the starting limit.

The board will meet on 31 January to discuss what on earth we will do in this very difficult position. Of course, I have the benefit of having had extensive discussions with the chief executive, and I know what the briefing paper will say because I have helped to settle it. It will say that our options are limited: to reduce staff, which will presumably increase the cost on the Government in terms of people not working; and in particular to reduce opening hours, which will remove the warm spaces that I was talking about a moment ago. I am sure that these are unintended consequences of the changes the Government have wanted to make all round.

I have heard the Minister talk many times about why he has taken the choices he has. I understand that, but it occurred to me that, with this type of unintended consequence and with the detail I provided, there is at least a case for some sort of carve-out for smaller charities, either on the increase in the rate or on the increase in the starting limit, or it is simply to have a delay—

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall) (Lab)]

Which, indeed, we are about to have, my Lords. The Division Bells have rung and the Committee will adjourn for 10 minutes.

Tax Reliefs: Theatre, Orchestra and Museums and Galleries Exhibition

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Tuesday 15th October 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab)]

My Lords, I think that everybody has heard loud and clear from my noble friend that he cannot make commitments that are waiting on decisions in the Budget. However, when he is talking to his colleagues at the Treasury, will he please stress the interdependency of all aspects of the cultural industries? Some generate more income than others but none is less important than any of the others, and without a proper sense of how they connect, all aspects of the cultural industries will suffer. Will he take that back to the Treasury and do the best he can to get the point across?

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

I am very grateful to my noble friend. To be honest, I think that the point has already been registered; that is why we have made the creative industries a key part of our industrial strategy. The Government are committed to supporting the creative industries, including all the sectors that have been mentioned today, and that is why they will form a key part of the industrial strategy that was announced yesterday.

Financial Services and Markets Bill

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Committee stage
Tuesday 21st March 2023 Grand Committee

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

My Lords, we may not wish to repeat the debate that we had in the Chamber earlier this year, but I was going to address my noble friend’s question about retail versus wholesale and the point from the noble Lord, Lord Vaux, about the use case for a CBDC.

The noble Lord, Lord Eatwell, made one of the points in relation to a CBDC. We want to ensure that central bank money, which is currently available to the public only as cash, remains useful and accessible to the public in an ever more digitalised economy. We have heard about access to cash in our debates earlier in Committee.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall) (Lab)]

My Lords, I am sorry to interrupt the Minister but there is a Division in the Chamber. The Committee will adjourn for 10 minutes, after which we will resume and allow the Minister to finish what she had to say.

Theatre Tax Relief

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Thursday 9th March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab)]

My noble friend Lord Bassam referred in his question to changes in audience behaviour since the pandemic, which has had a very serious impact on the ability of performing arts in particular to plan confidently. Audiences appear to respond to strong, novel programming, which is where the highest initial risk tends to lie. Has the Treasury made any assessment of the potential loss to the Treasury if performing arts organisations and others start to decrease their investment, thereby damaging the potential they have to draw audiences, which would then impact Treasury revenue?

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

My Lords, the points that the noble Baroness makes are entirely those that we would want to consider in looking at the issue. She is absolutely right about the value and the costs when it comes to the production of these shows, which is why the tax relief is focused there. She is also right that they can bring huge economic benefit, including through exports, attracting visitors to the UK and productions going on the road. Those are the kinds of things that the DCMS and the Treasury will consider when looking at the tax relief.

Financial Services and Markets Bill

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Committee stage
Tuesday 7th March 2023 Grand Committee

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall) (Lab)]

My Lords, if the noble Lord, Lord Holmes, will forgive me for interrupting him, I am afraid that there is a Division in the Chamber. The Committee will adjourn for 10 minutes, but perhaps the noble Lord will resume his speech when the Committee resumes.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall) (Lab)]

My Lords, could I just have the attention of the Committee for a second? The 10 minutes are now up but we know that there will be another vote, almost certainly immediately after the result of this one has been declared. Perhaps it would be better if the Committee did not properly resume until after that vote is completed, if that is agreeable to noble Lords.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Blackwell (Con)]

My Lords, since I have not spoken in Committee so far, I should remind noble Lords of my interest as a former chairman of a bank and a current shareholder. However, I am not going to defend the service levels of banks, which I recognise need improvement.

On these amendments, I point out that, while I understand the rationale behind the desire to maintain access to cash, everything has a cost. We need to consider the cost of what is proposed as well as the benefit. My noble friend Lady Noakes is right that the shift towards digital and away from cash has snowballed over the past few years. It is not just customers who prefer not having to carry cash around. Many small businesses, clubs, associations and societies find it much easier now to have a low-cost terminal with which they can process membership dues, fees or even small transactions. It makes the accounting so much easier and avoids having to deal with collecting and disbursing large amounts of cash.

The move towards digital is happening across the whole economy. People talk about keeping branches open but there are many branches where only a handful of people come in during the week. When you think about the cost of maintaining the building infrastructure, as well as the staffing, security and systems, the cost per transaction becomes astronomical. Those costs have to be borne by somebody; they are borne by the other bank customers in higher fees, charges and interest rates. Nothing comes without a cost so we have to consider what the appropriate cost-benefit answer is.

As many noble Lords have said, clearly there are people who find it difficult to use digital technology and need access to cash, but there are other ways of—

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall) (Lab)]

My Lords, I apologise for interrupting the noble Lord but I am afraid that there is another Division in the Chamber. The Committee will adjourn for 10 minutes and we will resume with the noble Lord, Lord Blackwell, when the moment comes.

Russia: UK Companies

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Thursday 8th December 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

I do not have that information with me, but I can take it back to the department and write to all noble Lords.

[The Deputy Speaker (Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall) (Lab)]

My Lords, it appears there are no further questions on that Urgent Question.

Small Business, Enterprise and Employment Bill

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Wednesday 28th January 2015 Grand Committee

Relevant documents: 11th and 13th Reports from the Delegated Powers Committee

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall) (Lab)]

My Lords, I remind the Committee that, in the event of a Division in the Chamber, the Committee will adjourn for 10 minutes from the sound of the Division Bell.

Clause 40: The Adjudicator

Clause 40 agreed.

Children: Television

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Tuesday 1st July 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Newby]

My Lords, the slight problem with that line of argument is that it would open the way to tax breaks on virtually every kind of expenditure. At the moment, as noble Lords will be aware, the Government’s ability to make tax cuts is severely constrained by the overall financial situation.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab)]

My Lords, does the Minister not agree that that is a counsel of despair? The children’s television that is produced in this country is, generally speaking, of a very high quality. He mentioned earlier that the problem for that sector of the industry is in finding a market. If there were more of it, there might be a bigger market for it overseas as well as in the UK. Some encouragement to what is a widely respected part of the industry might not come amiss and would certainly help to encourage our exports.

[Lord Newby]

My Lords, the noble Baroness makes a strong point. Again, this is the point that the industry is making and that the Treasury will listen to and consider over the coming months.

Thames Garden Bridge

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Thursday 9th January 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Deighton]

The general answer to that question has to be along the same lines. Just as this project still needs to pass the business case to be allocated the £30 million that is pencilled in, similarly we will do our work on other projects in a sensible way and respond to priority needs as they occur. I should just point out that the reason that the Treasury is putting in £30 million is that it is the sensible way to kick-start a fundraising effort. It is much easier to fundraise when people can see that the Government are behind a project and that it the first part of the funding has already been raised.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that Bernard Shaw was right when he said, nearly a century ago, that on the whole the British never want anything? They particularly did not want, for example, the National Theatre. They got it and are now very proud of it. The same thing is true of the London Eye. Does he not agree that the same thing, in time, may be true of the Garden Bridge?

[Lord Deighton]

I sympathise with that very insightful point. As someone who has worked on both the Olympics and HS2, I suspect that the Garden Bridge may get a welcome rather sooner than either of those projects did.

Autumn Statement

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Thursday 5th December 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Deighton]

I thank the noble Lord for his analysis of our need for investment. We also talked about productivity. The review that the noble Lord referred to that the Treasury did on corporation tax is what we describe as dynamic modelling, which means understanding the long-term effects of the tax cuts and demonstrating that the increase in income that flows afterwards pays for the majority of them. The way that we are dealing with making sure that overseas companies pay their fair share is through the OECD and taking leadership internationally. I think that is the only way that you can do it. You have to be able to deal with these international companies on a global basis, otherwise it is impossible to close them down, so that is probably the right way to approach it. The general trend of getting people to pay less tax and making sure that everybody pays that tax is the right strategy, and one that is working well for this country.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab)]

My Lords, I was not here at the beginning so I merely repeat something that has been said by somebody else. I do not believe the Minister answered the question from my noble friend Lord McFall about the OBR. Perhaps I could repeat the question. I believe my noble friend asked why the OBR was predicting that the economic situation would get worse in the years ahead.

[Lord Deighton]

The short answer is that you would probably need to ask it. As a former economist I can take this lightly, but in the short term, where I would rely much more on their forecast, the recovery is strong. In the longer term, if you look at the way the OBR handles it, it shows a fan of growth forecasts which comprehends just about every single possibility in the longer term.