High Speed Rail (West Midlands-Crewe) Bill

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Committee stage & Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard) & Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 9th November 2020 Grand Committee

I trust that I have reassured the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, and that she feels able to withdraw her amendment.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall) (Lab)]

My Lords, I have received no request to speak after the Minister, so I call the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson.

[Baroness Randerson (LD) [V]]

I very much thank noble Lords who have spoken in this debate. I was particularly pleased that the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, and the noble Lord, Lord Liddle, spoke with such assurance about this issue because of the importance of their committee. I have looked at their excellent report to see whether there was reference to this, and of course the reason it did not deal with something that was consuming me was because it had not concerned anyone else in this specific case. As far as I am concerned, that is very good news.

However, I accept entirely what other noble Lords have said, which is that there could well be an unexpected find of this nature. As a teenager, I spent a very interesting and productive summer chipping away at the ground and sweeping with a small brush at the Fishbourne Roman villa, which many noble Lords will recall was in itself a very unexpected find at the time. Unlike the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, I did not find any skeletons, but I found a very small piece of pottery, which made the whole summer worth while.

I emphasise the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Adonis, who pointed out the impact and importance of Crossrail, and the archaeological finds and burials, for example, that have been found as part of the Crossrail construction. It has been a treasure trove of additional historical knowledge about that route through London, so it is very important historically indeed.

The Minister has been very helpful, and I thank her for her assistance in her letter and for her reassurance today. My intention was exactly as has transpired this afternoon. I have now on the record in Hansard clear points about the process, where you can find information on it, and an assurance that it will not just be left to HS2 or any other undertaker to decide what is or is not of historical value. I am therefore happy to withdraw my amendment.

Clauses 23 to 48 agreed.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall) (Lab)]

We now come to the group consisting of Amendment 3. I remind noble Lords that anyone wishing to speak after the Minister should email the clerk during the debate.

Clause 49: Power to apply Act to further high speed rail works

Amendment 3

Moved by

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[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My Lords, I thought that the noble Lords, Lord Adonis and Lord Liddle, did a very good job of making many of my points for me. Then, of course, the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, came in and did a proper job on the matter in hand. I will play this with a straight bat and read out what I have here, which I thought I understood when I read it through over the weekend. I hope this will be helpful to the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe. It was certainly helpful to me. When I got to the end of it I thought, “Right, I get this,” so here we go.

It is normal practice on major infrastructure projects such as HS2 or Crossrail that, during construction, further planning consent needs to be sought for details of the scheme that were not anticipated when it passed through Parliament. One of the means for doing this in relation to railway works is an order made under the Transport and Works Act 1992, known as a Transport and Works Act order.

During its construction, Crossrail has had three such orders, addressing changes in station design at Whitechapel, stabling arrangements at Plumstead and connections between platforms at Paddington, all of which arose from continuing discussions on the design and operation of the railway after the Crossrail Bill was enacted. Phase 1 of HS2 has had one Transport and Works Act order so far, in that case for new sidings near Calvert Green for use by a waste-to-energy facility. This was to honour an assurance given to the operator of the facility during the passage of the phase 1 Bill. The facility could not be included in the scheme because of the time needed to develop the proposals, which would have unduly delayed progress. As we build phase 1, it may be found that there is a need for more orders.

I will mention briefly the process that such a Transport and Works Act order goes through. The application for the order is submitted to the relevant Secretary of State—in England that would be the Transport Secretary and in Wales it would be the Welsh Government. The applicant must then make the application public by publishing notices in local newspapers, by writing to people directly affected, by posting notices near the works and by notifying specified organisations. If the scheme is large, the applicant may be required to hold public information events. It is clear that such orders go through a large amount of consultation.

People who wish to object then have six weeks to notify the relevant decision-maker of their objections. If there are many objections or if there are statutory objectors—those who are considered directly affected because their land is being bought compulsorily, for example—there may be a public inquiry. A recommendation on the application for the order will then be made to the Secretary of State, who will ultimately make the decision as to whether it should be approved. There may also be a need for the applicant to apply separately for planning permission, but that is another process.

If an application for a Transport and Works Act order were to be made in relation to phase 2a of the railway, Clause 49 would allow such an order to adopt, as necessary, any provision of the Bill so that the works were constructed within the same legal and planning framework as the rest of the scheme. Further, Schedule 1 to the Bill allows any engineering work shown on the plans and sections that were submitted alongside the Bill to be substituted by a work not so shown. Any such work would still be bound by the environmental minimum requirements of the scheme. What this amendment seeks is already addressed in the Bill.

However, we know that the amendment is not entirely about that. I know that the hybrid Bill process in this House can be a little frustrating. As I said to the noble Lord when discussing his amendment with him last week and as I will repeat now, it is accepted practice on the basis of fairness that, as the second House to consider the Bill, it cannot make amendments that would extend the powers in it; for example, to acquire new rights over land to change the route. This practice was confirmed by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, as chair of the Select Committee that considered this Bill and by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Walker, who chaired the Select Committee that considered the phase 1 Bill in 2016. The Select Committee chaired by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, also considered the suggestion that instructing the promoter to make an amendment to the scheme through a Transport and Works Act order would provide a valid alternative to taking powers in the Bill. The committee did not take this view.

I agree that this is the right approach. Such a committee directing the outcome of an application for a Transport and Works Act order without the formal application being made and therefore without any such change going through the process I described would be unfair. It would take away the opportunity for those who wished to object to have their concerns heard.

I agree with the conclusions of both committee chairs. It is right that if a Transport and Works Act order was necessary, any such order should be entirely outside the scope of the Bill, but I would add that any such order, being associated with phase 2a of HS2, should attract the environmental protections that this scheme offers. The amendment would do nothing to change the ability of the nominated undertaker to use a Transport and Works Act order to amend the scheme; nor would its use in a future HS2 Bill allow the Select Committee in the second House to adopt a different approach. The Bill makes sure this is the case. I trust that this fully explains the stance that the Government take on this matter.

However, I am given to understand that the House authorities are considering a further consultation on the hybrid Bill process in the near future. If the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, has an issue with that process, he may wish to participate in those discussions—I am sure that his input would be welcome. As such, I wonder whether he might withdraw his amendment.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall) (Lab)]

My Lords, I have had no requests to speak after the Minister, so I call the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

My Lords, I am grateful to all noble Lords who have spoken. This was a probing amendment. I shall never convince my noble friend Lord Adonis that I am not trying to stop HS2; I think we will carry on debating that for many years. My probe—

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall) (Lab)]

My Lords, I am very sorry to interrupt the noble Lord, but I am sure that he can hear that a Division is under way. The Committee will adjourn for five minutes to allow noble Lords to register their vote.

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Clauses 50 to 58 agreed.

[The Deputy Speaker (Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall) (Lab)]

My Lords, we come now to the group beginning with Amendment 4. I inform the Committee that it is intended to propose a short break in proceedings for 15 minutes after the speech of the noble Lord, Lord Blencathra. I remind noble Lords that anyone wishing to speak after the Minister should email the clerk during the debate.

Amendment 4

Moved by

Health Protection (Coronavirus, Wearing of Face Coverings on Public Transport) (England) Regulations 2020

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Wednesday 8th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab) [V]]

I have a couple of short questions for the Minister, of which I have given her notice. The first concerns children and to some extent relates to what the noble Baroness, Lady Watkins, said. What is the rationale for exempting under-11s? Under-fives I could understand. Most children under 11 do not travel alone, so Regulations 5(5) and 5(6) could and should apply. Many, if not most, children over 11 do travel alone on public transport—for example, to and from school. I also ask the Minister about Regulation 7(1)(b), under which under-18s cannot be fined. How will enforcement work for them?

How is “reasonable excuse” to be monitored? In her answer during my PNQ on 25 June, the Minister hinted at lanyards or other types of proof. Does she have any further information on this?

Finally, can she explain why private hire vehicles are excluded, particularly in view of the higher than average Covid-19 mortality rate among drivers of these vehicles?

Public Transport: Face Coverings

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Thursday 25th June 2020 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to the requirement for passengers to wear face coverings on public transport, what assessment they have made of compliance with that requirement; and how that requirement is being enforced.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Vere of Norbiton) (Con) [V]]

My Lords, we are working closely with transport operators and the British Transport Police to monitor compliance. As we expected, initial reports from operators suggest a high level of compliance, and there is strong public support for the measure. More data will be available in the coming weeks. We expect to see a gradual ramping up of enforcement, supported by a significant communications campaign, over the coming months.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I hear what the Minister says. I am surprised that she points to that level of compliance. There is growing evidence, admittedly anecdotal, that not everybody is complying. This week, the BMA, among others, urged the wider use of face coverings as an important mitigation measure once social distancing rules are relaxed. The Government made face coverings on public transport mandatory from 15 June, with the potential of fines for non-compliance, yet, as I say, there is growing anecdotal evidence that many people are not complying. Can the Minister say a little more about what the Government will do to ensure that a strong, unambiguous message gets through to everyone? Can she say what support and training are being offered to front-line staff, such as bus drivers and ticket inspectors, to help them deal with non-compliance?

Air Traffic Management and Unmanned Aircraft Bill [HL]

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Committee stage & Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard): House of Lords & Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard)
Monday 10th February 2020 Lords Chamber

Amendment 4—a similar amendment has been tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe—would ensure that the master plan was consulted on with appropriate people and, as I have said, with an appropriate appeals procedure, because the wider industry is concerned that there should be answerability. I beg to move.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall) (Lab)]

I should inform the Committee that if this amendment is agreed to, I cannot call Amendment 3 by reason of pre-emption.

Railways: Update

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Wednesday 29th November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Sugg]

As I said, we are making decisions on electrification. We obviously see its benefits, but our focus is on improving rail journeys and passenger experience as quickly as we can. In some cases, electrification would take many years and cause a lot of disruption. The noble Lord mentioned the environment. We have introduced the new, state-of-the-art bi-mode trains, which, while giving passengers more comfortable and quicker journeys, will also help the environment.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab)]

Will the Minister have another go at answering questions put to her by my noble friends Lord Adonis and Lord Darling? She has conceded that the current franchise on the east coast will end three years earlier than originally anticipated. Can she tell the House—if she cannot today, could she please write to me—what the net cost is of that franchise being ended? That is, what money will the Treasury not receive as a result of that franchise being ended that it would otherwise have received?

[Baroness Sugg]

I will certainly have another go at that. The noble Baroness is quite right: the franchise was originally due to end in 2023 and it will now end in 2020, when the east coast partnership will take over. As I said, the current franchise owners have made a commitment and we will hold them to it. I will come back to the noble Baroness on costs.

Air Travel Organisers’ Licensing Bill

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 11th October 2017 Grand Committee

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall) (Lab)]

Before we begin, my Lords, I should explain that the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, who is moving the first amendment, has been detained in the Chamber by the PNQ. With the Committee’s permission, we will wait a few minutes for him; I suppose he might send somebody in his place, but I do not think that he will.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees]

Good afternoon, my Lords. I remind the Committee that, in the event of a Division in the Chamber, the Committee will adjourn for 10 minutes from the sound of the Division bells.

Clause 1: Air travel organisers’ licences

Amendment 1

Moved by

Roads: Drink-drive Limit

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Thursday 17th November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My noble friend is right to point to the importance of information and education, to which I have already alluded. As regards consultation and review, I am happy to arrange a briefing session for interested Peers with my honourable friend the Minister for Roads and with experts in this area. I assure noble Lords that this is a government priority. However, we feel that we have the correct balance as regards the limit, enforcement and education. That has resulted in one of the best road safety records in the whole of the continent.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab)]

My Lords, what is the difference between the severity of fines and so forth available in respect of mobile phone use and drink-driving respectively, whether or not an accident has ensued? Does the Minister agree that the level of distraction and loss of concentration resulting from the use of mobile phones is probably equivalent to several units of drink?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Baroness is right to point to this concern. Indeed, recently we have, regrettably, seen the effects of people driving while being distracted by the use of mobile phones. The Government are looking at that area very seriously and are looking at strengthening the penalties against using mobile phones while driving. This is another important area of road safety which the Government take very seriously.

Airports: London

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Tuesday 4th November 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Kramer]

My Lords, I will go back and ask my department to have conversations with the CAA so that I can give the noble Lord a more complete answer.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab)]

My Lords, would the noble Baroness—

[Noble Lords]

This side.

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[Baroness Kramer]

My Lords, Sir Howard Davies’ report will not be ready until the summer of 2015 and it is beyond my telepathic capabilities to anticipate its contents. I cannot answer for the Labour Party.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall]

My Lords, would the noble Baroness agree—

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[Baroness Kramer]

My Lords, I am sure that everybody would want a major decision such as whether to build a new runway to be made with the best information available. It is important in those circumstances to make sure that the issue has been fully explored. That may be called delay by some. I think that others would say that it helps to inform appropriate decision-making.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall]

My Lords—third time lucky. May I ask the noble Baroness whether she agrees that one of the things that have bedevilled this issue over the past two decades has been delay? Does she believe that when the Davies report is finally published, it will be implemented? I declare an interest as a supporter of the Stop Stansted Expansion campaign. If she looks at that example, she will see the restorative effect of lifting the blight on an airport and the countryside coming back to life.

[Baroness Kramer]

My Lords, Sir Howard Davies identified that there was no immediate capacity requirement; he is looking to 2030. After the report is issued we will all have to look at its contents and then make our decisions on how we will respond.

Roads: Road Safety

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Monday 1st July 2013 Lords Chamber

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, the department has made it simpler for councils to put in 20 miles per hour zones and limits and to install so-called Trixi mirrors to improve the visibility of cyclists at junctions. One of the problems is that sometimes a lorry driver cannot see a cyclist. I do not think that the problems with cyclists in London involve foreign trucks. There are issues with left-hand drive trucks causing accidents, particularly on motorways, but I have not been told that they cause problems for cyclists.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall]

My Lords, taking into account what has just been said about the increase in casualties, will the noble Earl take a view on the fact that, so far as I know, cyclists are the only road users who do not have to undergo any kind of compulsory test? Would it not be in the interests of all road users, but particularly cyclists, if more effort was put into ensuring that those who go on to the roads on bicycles are properly trained?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, there is the Bikeability programme, the full details of which I do not have before me. The difficulty with a compulsory scheme is that it would probably have a negative effect on cycling. As the benefits of cycling are so great and far exceed the risks, we would not want to go down that route.

Airports: London

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Monday 10th June 2013 Lords Chamber

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, there is no point in making a decision that will not stand a change in government.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall]

My Lords, does the noble Earl agree that one of the difficulties of this open-ended discussion, which has, as my noble friend Lord Soley has said many times, been going on for a very long time, is that a lot of areas are under constant threat and the blight that occurs in them is very damaging to the communities that live there? Is it possible for the Government at least to start ruling some things out, rather than leaving every option on the table?

[Earl Attlee]

As usual, the noble Baroness makes a very good point. The Airports Commission has been charged with reporting by December this year to rule out certain options.