Environmental Targets (Water) (England) Regulations 2022

Debate between Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb and Lord Harlech

Monday 23rd January 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

Because that is the way it goes. I thank the noble Baroness for giving way.

[Lord Harlech (Con)]

My Lords, it is the turn of this side. There will be time for everyone to contribute.

[Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP)]

I deeply resent that.

Clean Air (Human Rights) Bill [HL]

Debate between Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb and Lord Harlech

Committee stage
Friday 18th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Harlech (Con)]

My Lords, I start by expressing my thanks to the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Moulsecoomb, for her hard work campaigning on this important issue and to all noble Lords who have contributed to today’s debate. I thank Rosamund Adoo Kissi-Debrah for being with us today. The death of her daughter, Ella Adoo Kissi-Debrah, was a tragedy, and I pay tribute to her family and friends who have campaigned so tirelessly on this issue and continue to do so.

Noble Lords across the House were horrified to hear this week about the tragic death of Awaab Ishak. We are absolutely clear that every person in this country, irrespective of where they are from, what they do or how much money they earn, deserves to live in a home that is decent, safe and secure. Awaab’s case has thrown into sharp relief the need for this Government to continue our mission to reset and rebalance the tenant-landlord relationship in this country. My friend in the other place, the Secretary of State for Housing Michael Gove, is taking immediate action on this matter.

I turn back to the Bill. As the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Moulsecoomb, knows, the Government fully appreciate the intention behind her proposed legislation. We welcome her ambition to drive down air pollution and its impacts on public health and the environment. We share that ambition. The Government take air quality and its effects extremely seriously. Although we have achieved significant reductions in air pollution, it remains the largest environmental risk to public health in the UK, so we know there is further to go.

I will not go into detailed arguments: my noble friend Lord Benyon set out the Government’s full position at Second Reading, as well as the range of action we are taking to tackle air pollution and its effects. The sources of air pollution are diverse and complex, and there are no easy solutions. In these difficult times, we must deliver interventions that avoid placing disproportionate costs on individuals and small businesses. We are working across all sectors to drive down emissions and concentrations of harmful pollutants, encouraging innovative solutions and raising awareness to ensure that we can bring society with us.

We are concerned that environmental degradation can have implications for full enjoyment of human rights. The UK understands that the right to a clean, healthy and sustainable environment is a component of the rights elaborated in Articles 11 and 12 of the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights; namely, the right to an adequate standard of living and the right to the enjoyment of the highest attainable standard of physical and mental health. However, specifically on this resolution, we regard the recognition of the right as political and consider that there is a lack of international consensus on the legal basis for this right. It is important to have due regard to the useful information of international human rights law. Nevertheless, we supported the General Assembly resolution on the right to a clean, healthy and sustainable environment. We are committed to environmental action and will continue to champion more ambitious efforts on environmental protection.

Climate change and environmental degradation can have an impact on the well-being of people and we know that states must continue to protect, respect and promote human rights obligations. Our comprehensive existing legal framework, now bolstered by the landmark Environment Act 2021, gives us the capability and accountability we need to do this, which is why this Government are expressing reservations in regard to the noble Baroness’s Bill. The Government remain committed to setting ambitious targets under the Environment Act. We are currently finalising the government response to the consultation and we will continue to work at pace to lay draft statutory instruments as soon as practicable.

Once again I pay tribute to the noble Baroness, Lady Jones. Her Bill will help to raise awareness of the effects of air pollution, its impacts and the actions that can be taken to reduce it and to protect the vulnerable from its effects, which is of course welcome. I thank the noble Baroness for her assiduous campaigning on air quality and I look forward to continuing discussions with colleagues across your Lordships’ House on this vital matter, as the Government continue to make progress on improving the air we all breathe.

[Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP)]

I thank all noble Lords who have spoken on the Bill. The noble Lord, Lord Randall, was critical but also extremely kind, calling it a golden opportunity and world-beating; I thank him very much. It is always good to have a Conservative support my radical thoughts, so it was very kind of him. The noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, mentioned Awaab Ishak. She said it must have happened before, it will happen again, and we have to stop it as best we can.

I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman. I borrowed some of her amendments that did not get into the Environment Bill to put into my Bill, so I thank her very deeply for that. She talked about the toxic air in poor communities. It is a fact that poor communities suffer more from air pollution. It is absolutely inevitable: they live closer to the roads, they have fewer options for getting out into the countryside or into parks, and so they suffer more. It seems an even greater injustice to keep them in a position where they are suffering from polluted air. She talked also about the Government’s commitment to targets; a commitment to a target would be good.

Finally, I thank the Minister for his kind words. I am glad he understands that the Bill is brought with very good intentions to actually help people—not just children but absolutely everybody. I also appreciate that there are no easy solutions, but we have to start somewhere. The Bill is a very good place to start. I realise that it is tough. The Minister spoke about costs to individuals and businesses, but there are already costs to them from polluted air. It costs the NHS, families and social security. It is a cost to us that we somehow do not calculate.

The Minister made a point about bringing society with us. That is crucial. You cannot just say to people, “You can’t do this any more”; you have to offer them a benefit or an option. I am obviously more than happy to work with the Government to help them along those lines.

I thank everybody. I will sit down now. I beg to move.