Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2020

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb Excerpts

Monday 15th June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP) [V]]

My Lords, I find it extraordinary that we are debating Amendment No. 2 when it relates to a lockdown that is long gone. Amendment No. 3 was made on 31 May, over two weeks ago, and over the weekend Amendment No. 4 came into force, completely changing the situation again.

I am also concerned about the way in which parliamentary scrutiny has been undermined throughout this process. The Minister at the start used words such as “exceptional” and said that it would not be an inappropriate precedent. That is complete nonsense, because it is already a precedent. The regulations relate to the most extreme restrictions ever enforced in this country, yet Parliament appears to be an afterthought for this Government. Perhaps as a result, the regulations are very poorly drafted. Now they are unenforceable and likely to have unintended consequences that have not even been acknowledged yet.

The regulations, and all subsequent amendments, have been enforced as SIs, using the affirmative procedure, but without the prior authorisation of Parliament due to “urgency”. Everyone will appreciate the fast pace of the situation. However, Parliament has been in session. It is hard to think of a higher-priority business matter than these lockdown regulations, yet they have evaded timely parliamentary scrutiny on every occasion—in fact, debates are being held, as now, on old lockdown amendments, on the same day as new ones are enforced without prior parliamentary authorisation. This makes a mockery of the term “democratic process”. It remains the extraordinary case that the lockdown regulations have never yet been put in place with parliamentary approval; only outdated versions have been approved, after an amendment has already been enforced.

I recommend that the Government read Big Brother Watch’s May 2020 report, which explains the problem in detail, and might even allow the Government to understand the legal and social mess they have created. I stress that Parliament is sitting, and so rules should not now be being passed by government diktat. We need to maintain our role in scrutiny.

Covid-19: Response

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb Excerpts

Tuesday 19th May 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell]

The noble Baroness is entirely reasonable. I apologise if I give the impression that I am in any way complacent or if I am unapologetic about what we have done. She is entirely right: this is an awful disease that has hit this country extremely hard and not everything we have done has worked as well as we had hoped. Undoubtedly, when we look back, it will be judged that the Government have made mistakes; of that I am absolutely sure. I approach this question with humility. I completely take on board her point that questions that resist the idea that we have made mistakes are quite wrong.

However, I want to try to convey the enormous commitment and focus that the Government, the NHS and the people who are involved in the greater project have thrown into this project. It is not a massive shambolic mess littered with political stupidity and corruption, as is implied by some of the critics of the Government. Actually it has been a venture that has had a huge amount of innovation, collaboration and good will behind it. I am afraid I cannot help but seek to salute and pay tribute to those who are involved.

[Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP)]

My colleague on the Isle of Wight, Vix Lowthion, tells me that the public there are not clear about the aims and objectives of the trial they are taking part in. Can the Minister tell me now what are the criteria for success of the Isle of Wight trial?

[Lord Bethell]

One of the criteria of success is to learn from the pilot, which takes an early version of the app and hopes to develop learnings from it; we now have two or three. One of them, which I have mentioned, is that it is probably a mistake to launch an app before you have got the public used to the idea of tracing. As I mentioned in an earlier answer, that is something we have taken on board. When it comes to launching the test and tracing programme, we will begin with the tracing, not with the app.

Mental Health Services

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb Excerpts

Tuesday 19th May 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell]

The noble Baroness is right: the Covid epidemic will throw a spotlight on our mental health provision. That provision is already benefiting from an extra £2.3 billion a year by 2023-24. We have already brought forward the 24/7 crisis lines that were due to be delivered in 2023-24, and I think there is a good case for bringing forward other parts of our mental health strategy to address mental health issues during the Covid epidemic. Undoubtedly, we will focus very shortly on ways of doing that.

[Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP)]

The Stevenson-Farmer review of 2017, which was set up by the then Prime Minister, recommended strengthening the 1981 health and safety regulations on mental health first aid. Will the Government commit to picking up those recommendations and implementing them?

[Lord Bethell]

The noble Baroness raises an important point. I will confess that I am not, and will not pretend to be, completely across the matter she raises, but I will write to her with a clear answer.

Covid-19: NHS Contact Tracing App

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb Excerpts

Monday 18th May 2020 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to address privacy concerns about (1) the use of the NHS Covid-19 contact tracing application, and (2) the introduction of immunity certificates.

The Question was considered in a Virtual Proceeding via video call.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Care (Lord Bethell) (Con)]

My Lords, we have put privacy at the heart of the app and how it works so that you do not need to give your personal details to use it. We have worked in partnership throughout with the National Cyber Security Centre and the Information Commissioner’s Office. The science around immunity is currently uncertain and there are a number of issues that we need to address to understand potential certification.

[Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP)]

I thank the Minister for his response but that is certainly not the information that I am getting from other places. A Dr de Montjoye from Imperial College’s department of computing has written a paper in which he says that, if the Government are to use this app properly, it is very important that they are transparent about it. Can the Minister commit the Government to transparency about whichever app they use?

[Lord Bethell]

Professor de Montjoye is entirely right that transparency is key. That is why we have published the open source code for our app, as well as a PPIA privacy notice, and blogs setting out the approach that we are taking. We will continue to go about our business in a transparent way.

Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) Regulations 2020

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb Excerpts

Tuesday 12th May 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP)]

My Lords, even I will admit that these regulations were urgent and necessary, but it is a democratic and constitutional outrage that they were implemented on 26 March and are finally being debated in this House only on Tuesday 12 May. The regulations mark the greatest loss of liberty ever imposed in Britain, yet they were slipped in as emergency secondary legislation the day after Parliament closed early for a month-long recess. Parliament had just passed the Coronavirus Act and we were told to go early to recess, as it was job done. Yet it turns out that the real measures had absolutely nothing to do with that Act. Why did we break up a week early for Easter, rather than sit to give proper scrutiny to such drastic legislation? It was wrong to do it like that; it reminded me all too well of the illegal prorogation of Parliament last year.

The Government say that they are adjusting their guidance to loosen the restrictions but they must make amendments to the regulations reflecting this. For example, last week the police were threatening sunbathers in parks with a fine; this week, they will not be. Were the police wrong about the law last week or are they wrong this week? The law has not changed, so the circumstances in which people can be fined have not changed either. With so much confusion among police officers and police forces, anyone who is fined should be encouraged to challenge a fine through the courts to ensure that it has been issued lawfully and not based on a police officer’s mistaken understanding of the facts or the law. Even so, too many people will be paying fines which have been wrongly issued. Can the Minister tell me, first, what the Government are doing to protect against this?

Secondly, can the Minister explain how the Government are addressing the widespread confusion among police, prosecutors and the judiciary, which has led to people being wrongly convicted under these regulations and the Coronavirus Act? Thirdly, can he provide an update on the Crown Prosecution Service’s review of convictions under the legislation? I understand that it is even going to look at guilty pleas. Finally, can he explain the appointment of an anti-terror spook in the role of deciding how to lift lockdown restrictions, instead of the four Chief Medical Officers who were tasked with it before? When did this become a terrorism issue rather than a health issue?

Covid-19: Social Care Services

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb Excerpts

Thursday 23rd April 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP)]

I, too, congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Wheeler. This is a very timely debate and it is wonderful to hear what other noble Lords have said. I have three questions for the Government; they are very simple and I am happy to have written answers if necessary.

Like many other noble Lords, I am shocked that the Government were so late in taking action to shield those in care homes, in the same way that they were late in banning mass gatherings. Ministers focused on hospital deaths because that is what their press conference graphs focused on. The result is that at least a thousand people died in care homes prior to the Easter weekend. There was a failure to provide adequate supplies of PPE to care homes. It has been an example of how a Government really should not behave.

The government guidance provides for carers to protect themselves in the event that those they are caring for have symptoms. It provides protection where the person is classed as vulnerable due to cancer or respiratory conditions, but not if they are just old or infirm. It does not provide for the carers to regularly wear PPE when dealing with the elderly in care homes or in their own homes. This makes the shield less than watertight. It is amazing that some care home staff are sleeping in the care homes and effectively self-isolating in order to look after the people they care for, but obviously not all staff can do that.

Often a person being looked after in their own home will have contact with the outside world only via their carer and that makes the carer the sole source of any infection that occurs. The burden of responsibility on carers is huge, so the Government need to change their guidance—along with the supply of PPE—to reflect that. Will Ministers tighten up the guidance that carers operate under?

Secondly, the mass sending out of do-not-resuscitate letters to elderly patients was one of the more dubious decisions that has been made. I know that many GPs have wanted individual chats with patients and to shape their care accordingly, but Ministers need to clearly state that, if the elderly need and want hospital care, it will always be available. When entire care homes of patients are being expected to sign do-not-resuscitate notices, it can be taken as a clear message that they are expected to die in the care home and will not receive the treatment that perhaps younger people would. Has that practice stopped?

Can the Minister reassure the House that there is now real-time information about what is going on in care homes, so that we know exactly how many people are dying instead of the guesses that are coming so late? I understand the difficulties, but it is only when we really know the size of the problem that we will know how to deal with it.

Covid-19: Care Home Deaths

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb Excerpts

Wednesday 22nd April 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell]

The noble Lord, Lord Laming, makes a point that I am afraid I cannot agree with. While the press may be more focused on hospitals, we in the department have put an enormous amount of focus on social care. I pay tribute to my colleague Helen Whately, the social care Minister, who does not allow us to spend one minute not thinking about social care. However, the noble Lord is right that social care was deserving of a review in any case, and this epidemic will make that review even more poignant, relevant and important. I very much support his view that a review should take place after the epidemic and that it should be a root and branch look at the social care provision in this country.

[Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP)]

My Lords, I apologise that I was slow in unmuting. May I come in now?

[The Deputy Speaker]

No, I am afraid not; we have reached 10 minutes and we need to finish. We will try to get you in on another occasion. I apologise to those who were not able to ask a question. As the Lord Speaker said earlier today, account will be taken of that in future sessions.

Sugar Tax

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb Excerpts

Wednesday 3rd February 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Prior of Brampton]

My Lords, we have to be careful, or at least recognise, that if a sugar tax were imposed it would fall largely on those who are least able to afford it. There is of course a strong argument for a sugar tax, but there is also a case for making the argument against sugar consumption and making it easier for people not to consume sugar before we resort to taxation.

[Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP)]

My Lords, the Mayor of London, a well-respected member of the Conservative Party, has already put a sugar tax on sugary drinks at City Hall, so might the Government consider doing the same for the rest of Britain?

[Lord Prior of Brampton]

My Lords, what the Mayor of London has done at City Hall is similar to what Simon Stevens proposes to do within the NHS. The Government will watch both moves with great interest.

Child Health: Play

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb Excerpts

Monday 12th October 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords—

[Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP)]

My Lords—

[The Lord Privy Seal (Baroness Stowell of Beeston) (Con)]

My Lords, we have not heard from the Cross Benches on this Question yet.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall]

My Lords—

[Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb]

My Lords—

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

My Lords, I suggest on this occasion that we go to the Lib Dems as this Question started with the Lib Dems, although I acknowledge that there were two Conservative speakers in a row, which should not have happened.