Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (Self-Isolation and Linked Households) (England) Regulations 2020
Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb Excerpts(3 years, 4 months ago)
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Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP) [V]
My Lords, once again I congratulate Adam Wagner, the human rights barrister, on analysing and explaining all these coronavirus regulations. At the moment, he is perhaps the only person in the country who can make sense of this variety of regulations; he is doing a huge public service.
The tier system was meant to clear things up. It did at first, but now the situation is even more complicated. It is like a jigsaw puzzle but, however much we like jigsaw puzzles, I think we would probably prefer our facts clear and sharp. These regulations affect the life and liberty of every person in the UK; we really need to understand them properly. So do the police, who have to implement them. Instead of being presented with rules that are clear and obvious, we are being presented with a mess of snakes that we cannot untangle. It would be much more coherent if each new piece of legislation, instead of amending previous legislation, simply revoked all the regulations and introduced new ones. That would improve things because, instead of gathering up dozens of snippets and trying to omit or insert bits and bobs all over the place, we would just be able to read it very simply.
I have a particular question for the Minister. I had an email today from a Green Party city councillor in Lancaster, Tim Dant, who had had serious complaints from two local residents about the Government’s U-turn on the Pfizer vaccination programme. Both concerned people in their 80s who had the first dose of the vaccine and were going to have the second one but their appointment was cancelled. Both pointed out that the process of setting up and then cancelling must have been an expensive waste of precious resources, and they are now frustrated and confused about how vulnerable they are to being infected by Covid. Could the Minister please explain that to me?
Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (All Tiers) (England) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2020
Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb Excerpts(3 years, 4 months ago)
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Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP) [V]
My Lords, nobody could disagree that it has been a hard year for anyone governing a country, with the pandemic and the heavy load of Brexit, but the Government handled things badly from the very start. They were prone to dither, to delay and not to make up their mind when they were advised to, but later when it was too late. Part of the problem has been that they treated this not as a public health crisis, but as an economic crisis. Clearly, there is an impact on the economy, but that is not the primary reason to try to push back on the pandemic. Time and again, instead of locking our borders and advising people to stay at home, the Government did the opposite: they have advised us to go to work, and to eat out to help out. Of course, with their support of Dominic Cummings, they reduced public confidence in the Government as a whole. They really have themselves to blame.
We have heard from other noble Lords that there were 53,000 new cases yesterday. This is more than France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, the Netherlands, Poland and Portugal combined—all those countries together have fewer cases than we have.
Covid has done some good: it has reminded us of the value of community, collaboration and working together to find solutions. Quite honestly, the Government really ought to be doing this as well, but dithering and delaying means that they have not, so I will give them an idea. They must start helping the most vulnerable people—those who are clinically vulnerable but who are told by their bosses that they have to go to work. The hostile environment against migrants must be ended; it is now a threat to public health. We should end NHS charges for migrants, close detention centres and abolish “no recourse to public funds”. Finally, the Government really have to get a grip on schools. It is obvious that closing them will be the short-term option. I very much hope that the Government start to listen to the experts and do things in time.
Department of Health and Social Care: Unpaid Advisers
Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb Excerpts(3 years, 5 months ago)
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The Deputy Speaker (Baroness Morris of Bolton) (Con)
The noble Lord, Lord Scriven, has withdrawn.
Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP)
My Lords, I deeply regret that some noble Lords are dragging this debate down to the issue of unpaid advisers. This is most inappropriate. No one could object to unpaid advisers; I have used them. I have even taken advice from people on the Benches opposite; that is how low I am prepared to sink. It is not about them being unpaid or giving advice; it is about the lack of transparency and accountability. Will the Minister agree that announcements should be made about unpaid advisers so we can know it is happening and guarantee there are no leaks—which there appear to have been so far.
Lord Bethell (Con)
The noble Baroness makes her points extremely well. She rightly points out that we take advice from a wide variety of people. The only reason that we are talking about this today is because a transparency register is made of my appointments, which is published on GOV.UK and I would be glad to share the website link with anyone who would like to look at it more closely. The appointments of unpaid advisers follow the guidance on direct appointments from the Cabinet Office. We are scrupulous in our adherence to that guidance, and we will continue to be so in any future appointments we make.
Covid-19: Test Results
Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb Excerpts(3 years, 6 months ago)
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Lord Bethell (Con)
My Lords, pool testing offers a huge opportunity to cover a large amount of ground very quickly, and there are some workplace testing champions for it, including Amazon. However, it has some restrictions, in particular not knowing the identity of the person who might have tested positive. That is why we are running a large number of pilots at the moment and investing heavily in trying to figure out this exciting but challenging technology. We will deploy it the moment we can find a model that works.
Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP) [V]
My Lords, there have been a lot of allegations of corruption in the tendering processes for various aspects during the pandemic. I am curious whether the Minister feels that that could have some impact on the efficiency of what is happening now. When will the Government work with the right people?
Lord Bethell (Con)
I acknowledge the presence of fraud and condemn all those involved, but I do not see the connection between fraud and inefficiency.
Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (Self-Isolation) (England) Regulations 2020
Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb Excerpts(3 years, 6 months ago)
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Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP) [V]
My Lords, I think it is obvious that most people agree that self-isolation when you have a communicable disease is a good idea if you can possibly do it—so most people will of course obey the instruction. But for those people who do not, I fear that the Government have only themselves to blame. There is far too much confusion. We have had six or seven months of advice and laws and regulations, and police activity, with the police themselves being very confused. The Government must urgently tidy up all that so that we can be clear about what we all need to do.
Secondly, the Government urged people to go back to work, which was a pretty stupid thing to do while the pandemic was still very active among us. Thirdly, they encouraged people to “eat out to help out”—while of course at the same time abandoning hungry school- children. So the Government have only themselves to blame, because there is confusion around these regulations.
In an earlier question-and-answer session, the Minister suggested that I give him some ideas for an economic recovery for Britain: a long-term plan so that we do not just lurch from crisis to crisis. I am more than happy to set up a meeting with Green Party economists, and in particular our professor of economics, Molly Scott Cato. I will be in touch with the Minister’s office to do that as soon as this debate is finished.
Covid-19: South Yorkshire
Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb Excerpts(3 years, 6 months ago)
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Lord Bethell (Con)
I pay tribute to NHS colleagues who have done an enormous amount to increase NHS lab capacity, and would be happy to share the numbers with the noble Baroness. We have written to care homes to emphasise the critical importance of the pastoral visits to which she refers. There is no question of a care home shutting out visitors if it can be avoided and we are putting regular testing in place to protect care homes. We are looking at providing regular testing for visitors and hope to make progress on it.
Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP) [V]
My Lords, I take issue with the Minister’s response to the Front-Bench spokespeople when he urged everyone not to make party-political points during this pandemic, yet went on to swipe at Andy Burnham, the Mayor of Greater Manchester. The Minister needs to hold himself to the same high standards he urges on others. This Government promised to level up the north but all we are getting so far is the north being put into tier 3 lockdown and given £8 per head in compensation. When are they going to come up with a long-term economic plan? We have record low interest rates and this is the time to borrow and invest if we are to have any sort of green, productive future.
Lord Bethell (Con)
I am grateful to the noble Baroness, who has clearly read the Conservative Party manifesto. I should be grateful for her recommendations on how we can do exactly what she suggests.
Covid-19: Information Sharing with Police Forces
Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb Excerpts(3 years, 6 months ago)
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Lord Bethell (Con)
I thank the noble Lord for his question. The intention of this legislation is threefold: first, to increase public understanding of the importance of self-isolation; secondly, to help to support people to comply with self-isolation by making sure that they understand the consequences of breaking those rules; and, thirdly, to introduce fixed penalty notices for those who do not follow the rules. Our intention is not to enforce a surveillance culture around this; it is instead to leave it to members of the public to take it into their own hands as to whether they would like to share instances of breaches with the police, and to give the police an opportunity to follow up those reports in a timely, accurate and efficient fashion.
Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP) [V]
My Lords, in an earlier answer to the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, the Minister seemed to suggest that the noble Lord was casting aspersions against the BAME community with regard to their willingness or not to sign up because of data-sharing with the police. Would he like to take back that slur? Could he also please tell me which BAME communities he spoke to before imposing these conditions?
Lord Bethell (Con)
I am grateful for that important question. At no point would I ever wish to cast any aspersions or slur at the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, who I count as a close colleague and someone whose opinion I respect enormously. However, I was replying in response to his question about BAME communities. We are deeply involved in talking to a large number of those communities, which have traditionally been hard to reach. We are engaged with them on many levels to talk to them about how we can address the marketing challenge of getting our messages to them, how we can shape our messages so that they are fully understood, and how we can address any concerns they may have about the test and trace programme.
I can report to the noble Baroness that we have been extremely pleased by the very encouraging responses that we have had from those communities, which is why I do not think it is reasonable to assume that any particular community would be more or less suspicious of this programme than another.
Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (No. 2) (England) (Amendment) (No. 5) Regulations 2020
Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb Excerpts(3 years, 6 months ago)
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Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP) [V]
My Lords, last week your Lordships’ House considered three coronavirus regulations, in the hope that they would codify and simplify the vast system of laws, regulations and advice that has developed over the past six months. We are now considering yet more regulations that add to the confusion. Of course, last Friday the Government released something late—which is their way of hiding things that they think will be unpopular—namely, that they will be sharing data with the police. Now this is not something that we should be debating afterwards and, luckily, we have had a short debate today in the House.
The real problem is that the Government have not accepted that this is a health issue and not an enforcement issue. Anything that deters people from signing up for test and trace is going to be counterproductive. Surely it would be better to give people financial support rather than giving them penalties all the time. Meanwhile, testing information is not even given to local directors of public health—and I cannot understand how the Government can justify giving it to the police and not to local directors. We need a locally led, health-centred approach to this health crisis, not the centralised, privatised, jobs-for-the-boys system that this Government are running.
Finally, can the Minister tell me that all the regulations and advice will be rationalised and refined so that we can actually understand where we all are?
Health Protection (Coronavirus, Local COVID-19 Alert Level) (High) (England) Regulations 2020
Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb Excerpts(3 years, 7 months ago)
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Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP)
My Lords, the classic comedy, “Yes Minister” has a running joke. When the Minister stands up to give a speech, he starts by saying, “We live in a time of change”. That could not be more true now because we are definitely living in a time of change. That, I think, is part of the Government’s problem. They are not actually tackling the mess they have made before they make another one. We now have what appears to be a fairly simple three-tier system, on which one could congratulate the Government, but there is a backlog of complex and convoluted regulations, advice and law that ought to be tidied up. I have raised this issue with the Minister before.
The three tiers are meant to be clear, but I argue that that there are all sorts of complexities in them. There is also the fact that I do not understand exactly how all of this will involve local authorities. Perhaps the Minister can explain that. It seems that we are giving local authorities the opportunity to be the butt of the Government, who can say, “You have messed up again”. What are local authorities going to do and when will we have a locally led test, track, trace, isolate and support system? Local authorities need the money, and they need it fast.
I want to ask a few direct questions. The Minister seems to have a real grasp of the three-tier system, so what kind of pub and restaurant closures will allow most of them to stay open? What kind of gatherings ban will have 17 complex exceptions? What does it mean when you can participate in a gathering of any size, inside or outside, of a tier 2 area, if it is “reasonably necessary for work purposes”? Finally, why is grouse shooting still allowed?
Health Protection (Coronavirus, Wearing of Face Coverings in a Relevant Place and on Public Transport) (England) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2020
Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb Excerpts(3 years, 7 months ago)
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Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP)
My Lords, I declare an interest as a vice-president of the Local Government Association. I support completely the idea of wearing face masks. It is an incredibly sensible option, particularly for most of us here. However, I point out to the Minister that my experience suggests that it is mostly men of a certain age and of a right-wing persuasion who find it most difficult to wear face masks. Then there are those who wear them but do not cover their noses. It makes their noses look huge and I feel that, from the point of view of attractiveness, we should encourage them to put the mask over their noses as well. Quite honestly, I think of this as a public duty. I hope that other people wearing them will protect me and I certainly hope to protect others by wearing mine. If the wearing of masks helps to reduce the spread of the virus, it is an important part of collective action and solidarity between people.
However, perhaps the Government have not always made this completely clear and I am very glad that we are not hearing any more of their August talk about “returning to normal”, which actually means supporting London businesses but not supporting local businesses, which most of us have been doing. The regulations have added yet more complexity to the legal framework, with yet more piecemeal amendments. With the announcement today of a new coronavirus legal framework, would it not be a good idea to start consolidating the regulations as part of the exercise so that it is all made as simple and as clear as it possibly can be? In the past—and possibly still—the Government have muddled up and blurred the lines between guidance, advice and the law. This has resulted in a huge amount of confusion, especially for organisations such as the police.
I feel it is inherent in the regulations that the Government expect the virus to be around for some time. It is therefore time for an economic package that includes a universal basic income for everyone to support them through the next six months, to make sure that people can not only support the economy but feed their children and themselves and lead a reasonable life.
An issue that has exercised me throughout the coronavirus crisis is that the Government have been bypassing Parliament. I know there has been a debate in the other place today and that MPs are going to be able to speak on these new regulations tomorrow and then vote on them, but the vote will be yes or no. That is not a debate. A debate suggests that there is a back and forth, and a vote would then imply voting for amendments and alterations.
Adam Wagner, whom I follow on Twitter, is a human rights barrister and a visiting professor of law at Goldsmiths, University of London. He said yesterday:
“One of the things this crisis has brought home to me is how illiberal outcomes are inevitable when hugely important decisions are made by a small group in secret and without parliamentary scrutiny. Biases and personal preferences of those in the room are inevitably amplified”.
For me, that sums up how these regulations are consistently formed and then imposed on us. It is not just about not bypassing Parliament any more or allowing it a say in improving the regulations; it is about understanding that a small clique of people deciding things for the rest of us is a really unhealthy way of going about things, and is absolutely not democracy.
I support noble Lords who have said that local authorities need to be brought in. The Minister said in his opening remarks something about the Government continuing to work with local authorities. That is the sort of phrase that I say “ahem” to; I do not believe it for a moment, and I think local authorities would agree that it is not what has been happening. Many of us do not trust private companies to have the interests of the population at heart, but we understand that it is the job of local authorities to put our interests first. The Government have to give local authorities the power to test and trace, give local authorities the funding so that they can make that happen, and then give them anything else they need to get the job done properly. Let us face it, Serco and the Government have made the most awful mess of this so far; they have wasted billions and allowed thousands to die.
I did not hear the Minister respond to my noble friend Lady Bennett’s questions in the last debate. I ask that he write to her with the answers so that we can all be clear exactly what the Government are doing.