Debates between Baroness Hussein-Ece and Lord Taverne during the 2017-2019 Parliament

Privileges and Conduct

Debate between Baroness Hussein-Ece and Lord Taverne
Thursday 15th November 2018

(5 years, 6 months ago)

Lords Chamber
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Lord Taverne Portrait Lord Taverne
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My Lords, I practised at the Bar for 11 years a long time ago, but I have no experience of criminal law and I do not claim to have any special expertise. I think that noble Lords should look at this case from the point of view which has been put by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Woolf: has the person complained about had a fair crack of the whip?

There were some cases recently where a court said that statements made by someone bringing forward the accusation of rape were completely contradictory to the accusation—not only the statements but also the behaviour of the person making the accusation were quite inconsistent with her original charge. This was clearly an instance where the cross-examination of the person making the charge was essential. Looking at it from the point of view of whether my noble friend Lord Lester had a fair crack of the whip, can anyone doubt that there should have been a cross-examination, in this case of the accuser, of her reaction to the production of the books, how much she admired him, how on another occasion she asked after his health and had sent “love and kisses”. According to one witness, she behaved in a manner that suggested great friendliness for the accused some time later.

Baroness Hussein-Ece Portrait Baroness Hussein-Ece
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Excuse me. This is very inappropriate.

Baroness Hussein-Ece Portrait Baroness Hussein-Ece
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You are going through the case but you were not there.

Lord Taverne Portrait Lord Taverne
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It is highly appropriate. In those cases there was a complete inconsistency between the behaviour and statements after the event which conflicted with the accusation made. The convictions were quashed. Can anyone really argue that if there had been the possibility of cross-examination of the witness about the kind of examples which the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, gave in his original speech—the confessions of a very close relationship with the defendant—that sufficient doubts would have been raised for the charge to be dismissed?

Baroness Hussein-Ece Portrait Baroness Hussein-Ece
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You are trying the case. Shame on you.