Firefighters’ Pension Scheme (England)

Baroness Hoey Excerpts

Monday 15th December 2014 Commons Chamber

[Kate Hoey (Vauxhall) (Lab)]

I would normally want to say that the Minister had said something with which I agreed, but I have to say now that never in my time in the House have I heard a Minister try to flannel in this way by simply reading a speech without taking interventions even from her own side. I know that that has sent firefighters, and the public in general, the message that the Government are split on this issue. Many Back Benchers who are present today would vote with us if they were not on a three-line whip. I hope that many of them will see that this is the one occasion on which they might decide that it is worth rebelling, because the issue is really important.

As one who has been involved with the Fire Brigades Union for many years, I feel that the union has a very fair case. This is not really about money. We have seen the settlement in Scotland, the settlement in Wales and the settlement in Northern Ireland, all of which have involved the same financial costs. Something very strange has happened. The union was negotiating fairly, with honesty and decency, and tried to secure a settlement for months. When a new Minister arrived, the Minister and the union met time after time. I could quote plenty of things that the Minister said that suggested that movement was going to happen, but I will not do so, because I know that many of my colleagues want to speak. Suddenly, in October, everything stopped. I do not necessarily blame the Minister, because I know that Ministers cannot always do what they would like to do, but someone, somewhere, prevented the negotiations from continuing.

Common sense could have sorted out an issue that is vitally important to the public. We can all sleep easy in our beds at night because we know that the firefighters are out there ready to protect us. We have seen what they have done when there have been terrible tragedies in this country. We saw it, for instance, when a helicopter crashed in my constituency recently. I simply do not understand how, in this day and age, when every other part of the United Kingdom has been able to secure a settlement that is fair and within the cost constraints, we cannot have the same here today.

So I say to all Members that it is wrong that this should have had to happen. The Opposition brought it, but the Government should have brought this and allowed this regulation to be voted on. I understand that many Government Members will not want to rebel and will feel they have to be loyal, but I say this to them: “This is a matter where you really should examine your conscience. Go and talk to your firefighters in your area. Listen to them, and they will be telling you today, ‘These regulations could be revoked. We could go back and get a settlement long in time, and get it in place before 1 April’”. I hope all Members of all parties will join together to support the FBU, and to publicly support the firefighters and the public in what they want to see: a decent deal for firefighters.