Domestic Abuse Bill

Baroness Hodgson of Abinger Excerpts

Committee stage & Committee: 6th sitting (Hansard) & Committee: 6th sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 10th February 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hamwee (LD) [V]]

My Lords, I am speaking on this group because I respect the experience and judgment of the signatories to these two amendments. The noble Baroness, Lady Meacher, mentioned the resentment that can grow after a long period of caring for a family member. I would add the sheer exhaustion and the discovery that the person who is being cared for does not seem to be the person they once were.

The first amendment on the duty to report reminds me of debates we held not so long ago about a mandatory duty to report and act on the abuse or neglect of children. This amendment does not go that far. It seems to be cast as a contract of employment. I am not sure what the outcome would be in the case of non-compliance. It may be too detailed at this stage when we are discussing principles.

This is another aspect of awareness and the culture change, which have been discussed quite a lot this afternoon. The amendment is worded as if someone is carrying out a financial assessment. Would that person have more access than someone carrying out an occupational health assessment of the needs for adaptations? I accept that a financial assessment is about more than paperwork, but there will be clues, such as, “Oh, my daughter deals with all that”.

The amendment is linked to the amendment introduced on the second day of Committee about mandatory awareness training for professionals. Its focus was on front-line professionals, but all the points made then apply here too. When the House looks again at that amendment, as I am sure it will, can we think about how it is relevant to this situation? In that debate, my noble friend Lady Burt talked about co-ordination between agencies. The Minister, who gave a sympathetic and detailed response, referred to guidance from different agencies. As the mover of that amendment, the noble Baroness, Lady Armstrong of Hill Top, said,

“there is plenty of guidance but no means of making sure that it is always translated into action.”–[Official Report, 27/1/21; col. 1741.]

Despite the Scottish and Welsh examples about the power of entry, I am rather leery of going down this path. I do not know the extent to which professionals, other than the police and social workers, can apply for an order, as the noble Baroness, Lady Meacher, mentioned. I am too much of a Pollyanna in wanting to start from a position of sympathy with both sides and to take a gentler approach, but I know that gentleness and nuance do not always work. Adult safeguarding is complex, especially if access is blocked. All this raises issues around privacy and the importance of building relationships.

I realise that the life and limb threshold for the police to gain entry under PACE is high. I also appreciate that there has been work on this issue, although, unlike the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, I could not get past “page not found” when I searched for it this morning.

The noble Baroness, Lady Greengross, is a doughty campaigner and advocate. I appreciate I have been a bit picky, so I make it clear that I share the concerns which lie behind these amendments, although I have some reservations about their detail.

[Baroness Hodgson of Abinger (Con) [V]]

My Lords, like others, I congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Greengross, on championing the rights of older people over so many years. I will speak in support of Amendments 165 and 166.

At Second Reading, I highlighted the ONS statistics showing that in 2017, when it comes to older victims, more than 200,000 people aged 60 to 74 experienced domestic abuse in England and Wales. One in four victims of domestic homicide are over the age of 60. Age UK argues that older victims are systematically overlooked, suggesting that an older person being physically or mentally abused by their adult child or grandchild, family member or spouse of 50-plus years is far less likely to be recognised for who they are—a victim. It is a well-known fact that, in the UK, women regularly outlive men. As a result, they are often more vulnerable, living on their own and frail.

The noble Baroness, Lady Greengross, highlighted the work of Hourglass, formerly Action on Elder Abuse. Its recent polling, conducted during the pandemic last year, showed that the number of calls related to the abuse of older people by a neighbour doubled. Meanwhile, 38% of calls in the first six months of 2020 related to sons or daughters as the perpetrators. Hourglass also reports that financial abuse is the most common type of abuse reported to its helpline, making up 40% of calls in 2019. These facts only reinforce the importance of these two amendments.

Amendment 165 is needed because financial assessment is an important marker and access point where potential abuse can be identified. Amendment 166 will ensure powers equal to those tried and tested across the border in Scotland and is an important safeguard for all, including older victims. How we treat our vulnerable is a reflection of our society and the elderly, like the very young, are among the most vulnerable. We need a zero-tolerance attitude to abuse, whatever the age of those involved, and must work hard to protect the vulnerable and support the many hidden victims of such crimes.

[Lord Rooker (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I too pay many congratulations to the noble Baroness, Lady Greengross. I mean this in the most polite way possible: during our time in opposition in the 1980s and 1990s, when I spoke on social services from the Front Bench—in other words, a long time ago—Sally was always there with helpful briefings. She has massive expertise and real hands-on experience of these issues.

I support both amendments in principle. I could quibble, as one or two others have done, about some of the detail, but they are both to be supported in principle, because this is an untapped area. In respect of Amendment 165’s provision for

“carrying out a financial assessment for adult social care”,

no one has yet mentioned that the person concerned—the older person—may well be the owner of the property. They may not be living in the property of their children or grandchildren. I can remember one occasion when a residential home in my former constituency was going to be closed. All the residents had to be assessed as to whether they might need nursing care, residential care or supported care. It was found that something like 10% of them could go off and live independently. What social services told me was: “We don’t know why they were there in the first place”. They had effectively been dumped by their families in order to get their hands on property.

All kinds of issues are involved here, not just, as some noble Lords have implied, the frustration due to the actual burden of caring. It would be quite valid if, where there is a suspicion, it is reported. The noble Baroness, Lady Meacher, talked about worries over being reported to social services or the police. The fact is that if there is good multi-agency working at local level, and the police were contacted first, you would expect them to say to social services, “Could you run the rule past this one?” In other words, it ought to be a multi-agency approach and it should not matter where the first contact is made. There ought to be a local procedure, and there should be no problem about worrying whether the police are contacted first.

As the noble Lord, Lord Randall, said, it will be interesting to hear the Minister’s explanation of why it works well, as one assumes, in Scotland and Wales and cannot work in England. I was amazed when I looked at the amendment originally, to be honest, by the implication that social workers did not have the power of entry, so I checked that. I understand the problems of PACE from my other activities and my interests in the food industry.

There is an issue where a professional has reasonable grounds for believing abuse may be taking place. First, it ought to be reported and secondly, if need be, access ought to be given. It seems quite simple: those two issues are not part and parcel of what goes on at present, and we require legislation to deal with it. If legislation is required to make the system work and protect older people from such abuse, then so be it.

--- Later in debate ---

However well-intentioned the current Ministers and civil servants are, it is important that this complementarity is given legislative underpinning, and this amendment would do just that. I cannot see any reason why the Government should reject it because it does no more than give effect to their own claims about the strategies, and follows a model adopted by them with regard to the gendered nature of domestic abuse.

[Baroness Hodgson of Abinger (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I stand to support Amendment 185, also in my name. I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Lister, for her very able introduction and the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Gloucester for her support. Like the noble Baroness, Lady Lister, I raised this issue at Second Reading. I also declare an interest due to my involvement in the APPG on Women, Peace and Security and the Preventing Sexual Violence in Conflict Initiative and both those agendas. My work on these issues has demonstrated to me, time and again, that women and girls across the world, not just in the UK, are more likely to suffer from violence and abuse and form the greater proportion of victims. It is, sadly, a gendered crime. While men can and do experience abuse, women are disproportionately impacted.

It is important that legislation results in practical and workable solutions on the ground. This means policies and strategies need to be joined up and not left to act in their own silos. Many other crimes covered by the Ending Violence Against Women and Girls strategy, such as rape, forced marriage, FGM and stalking, overlap and are connected with domestic abuse. It is remiss that we are discussing this very welcome and progressive Bill to help combat domestic violence and yet there is no mention of the VAWG strategy. It is something that a number of organisations working in this space have highlighted as a gap. This short amendment neatly remedies this issue and would also help ensure compliance with Article 7 of the Istanbul convention. It is win-win, and I hope my noble friend the Minister will consider it favourably.

Before I sit down—or metaphorically sit down—I would like to add a comment about Amendment 186, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, which is also in this group. In his very moving speech at Second Reading, he reminded us that

“one third of victims of domestic abuse are men, but only 4% of victims being supported by local domestic violence services are men.”—[Official Report, 5/1/21; col. 36.]

It is important that we work hard to uncover the extent of all hidden abuse and, as I have said before, have a zero-tolerance response, regardless of age or gender.

[The Lord Bishop of Gloucester [V]]

My Lords, I metaphorically rise to speak to Amendment 185. I am very grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Lister, for outlining the issues so clearly. It is a real honour to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Hodgson, and I am delighted to have added my name to Amendment 185. I do not want to repeat what they have eloquently said already, all of which I agree with.

The UK is party to international treaties and conventions that make it clear that we must deliver a co-ordinated response and integrated measures to end violence against women and girls. Amendment 185, as we have heard, simply seeks to ensure good join-up: the statutory guidance issued alongside the Bill must be linked to any violence against women and girls framework.

I am extremely grateful to the Minister for a good meeting recently to discuss the need for statutory guidance to include an understanding of different faith contexts regarding violence against women and girls, as there is much good work being done, not least by the Faith and VAWG Coalition, which is well-known to the domestic abuse commissioner-designate. I am grateful to the Minister for her deep listening and I look forward to faith groups continuing to work with officials and Ministers.

With Amendment 185, I ask that similar attention is paid to joining up the vital work of the Ending Violence Against Women and Girls strategy and the Domestic Abuse Bill. It is vital that this is done, as we have heard.