Health and Care Bill

Debate between Baroness Grey-Thompson and Lord Ashton of Hyde

Lords Hansard _ Part 1 & Report stage
Wednesday 16th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ashton of Hyde (Con)]

My Lords, I detect a sense that the House would like to hear from the Front Benches, but I know that all noble Lords have a right to speak and that the noble Baroness, Lady Grey-Thompson, is very keen to say something. I am sure she will understand that the House wants to hear the Front Benches and that, if my noble friend wants to bring this to a vote, we should get on with it.

[Baroness Grey-Thompson (CB)]

My Lords, I have spoken numerous times about my opposition to assisted suicide for many different reasons. It is not, for me, about the sanctity of life. Not everybody who believes that the law should not be changed has strong faith. However, we are continually being asked to vote through the principle and think about the detail later. The devil is in the detail.

Detailed scrutiny is our role as a revising Chamber. The Commons has so many of its amendments guillotined. However, we have to take an issue such as this, which is about ending people’s lives, very seriously and we have to debate some of the detail. I know that the noble Baroness, Lady Meacher, feels strongly about this and I wish she had pressed much harder and much earlier for a Committee stage for her Bill. In an issue such as this, when we are talking about ending people’s lives, there should be hundreds of amendments, because it has to be debated properly.

I would like to briefly go on the record to thank the hundreds of people who have written in. We are really lucky right now that we live in a democracy and that people are able to freely express their opinions, whether we agree with them or not. Our role in the House of Lords is to deal with those people who write in. Lots of people from both sides have written to me. However, we must also be really careful in our language and not scare people into thinking that assisted suicide is the only option for them.



As a disabled person who sits in this Chamber with a red stripy badge, I have a huge amount of privilege. Many, many thousands—tens of thousands or more—of disabled people do not have privilege in respect of protection. This amendment and what it seeks to do will fundamentally change the political and societal landscape for disabled people. If people have not read it, they should look at the article by the noble Lord, Lord Shinkwin, this weekend about how disabled people are encouraged to think that they would be better off dead than live with an impairment. Even in this Chamber, we hear about things such as incapacity and incontinence and all the things that people fear. I push back on that, and I push back on the view that public opinion is overwhelmingly in support of this. On the Dignity in Dying website, 284,881 people have signed the public petition. On the Commons website, asking for a change in the law, 46,483 people have done so. That is not overwhelming public opinion.

I know the frustration of people who want to change the law. I can feel it; we hear it, and I admire the fact that the noble Lord, Lord Baker, says that we are a democratic Chamber. There are plenty on the outside who would not agree with that in terms of the way that we operate. This, however, is a constitutional matter. For all those arguing in favour of this tonight, I really look forward to them supporting my Private Member’s Bills asking for things such as good education, work, social care and access to trains, which are the things for which disabled people are arguing. This is not it: this is not the right time and not the right place. I do not support this amendment.

Sport: Women on Governing Bodies

Debate between Baroness Grey-Thompson and Lord Ashton of Hyde

Thursday 6th April 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, I agree with my noble friend. The figure of 30% for women is one thing, but the Sporting Future strategy also outlines the requirement for diversity in all areas and expects the sports national governing bodies to produce diversity programmes which should be published annually in order to report on progress.

[Baroness Grey-Thompson (CB)]

My Lords, I declare a number of interests in this area that are listed in the register. A number of governing bodies could do much better on this. The pipeline is incredibly important, but what are the Government doing to ensure ex-athletes—I declare an interest—have an opportunity to move on to boards? A number of athletes are on programmes. There could be training opportunities. It is not just sitting on boards and being chief execs and chairmen of governing bodies, but senior coaching roles, where we have a huge lack of women numbers.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, I completely agree with the noble Baroness, who obviously knows about these things first hand. UK Sport is working to address this, but there are issues that have to be addressed. The main thing is there has been a sea change in attitudes towards diversity in general and women in sport in particular. The present Sports Minister deserves great credit for taking a very firm approach to this and making significant progress.

UK Sport: Elite Sport Funding

Debate between Baroness Grey-Thompson and Lord Ashton of Hyde

Thursday 23rd February 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

Of course, that is exactly what the Government are doing. By spending about four times as much on Sport England, they aim to encourage activity and sporting achievement, which will lead to elite sport level. However, the remit for UK Sport is to win medals at the Olympics, and it has achieved that in spectacular fashion.

[Baroness Grey-Thompson (CB)]

My Lords, I declare an interest in that I am chair of ukactive, but I was also a lottery-funded athlete so I understand the complexities between UK Sport and Sport England. For us, as a small nation, to win medals is amazing, but medals do not increase participation and inactivity costs our nation £20 billion a year. Wheelchair rugby came fifth at the Paralympics last year—an amazing achievement, but with no funding there is little chance of the team making the Paralympics again, which will destroy participation. Is it not time to look at a funding model that guarantees an opportunity to participate but goes beyond just winning medals? Does our nation not deserve more than that?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, that is a very valid question for debate. In fact, my noble friend Lord Elton raised exactly that subject when we discussed this about two weeks ago. I am not sure that I agree with the noble Baroness that winning medals does not encourage participation. After each Olympics when we do well, there is a great resurgence in interest in sport. However, there is a genuine debate on whether we should concentrate on medals or broaden the appeal. Medals are not the only thing that matters, but they matter a lot to a lot of people. For the next Olympic cycle we have given UK Sport a remit to win medals, as it has in the past, but I accept that in future we may want to change that.