Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill

Baroness Greengross Excerpts

Lords Hansard - Part 1 & Lords Hansard - part one & Report stage
Monday 13th December 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Greengross (CB)]

My Lords, I am speaking in favour of Amendment 55ZB from the noble Baroness, Lady Whitaker, which would ensure that Gypsies and Travellers are not evicted from an unauthorised site unless they have refused to go to a suitable alternative site. I note the noble Baroness’s comments that, when she met with the Minister, the noble Baroness, Lady Williams, she was told that the provision of sites for Gypsies and Travellers was a planning matter and that an amendment which dealt with it was not for this Bill.

On 4 November, the Minister, the noble Lord, Lord Greenhalgh, in response to my question highlighting that only eight local authorities out of 68 in the south-east of England have identified a five-year supply of specific, deliverable sites for Gypsies and Travellers, responded that it is the responsibility of local planning authorities to make an assessment of the need for both permanent and transit sites and to identify sites in their local plans. The Government are of course correct that this is a planning matter, yet the evidence is clear that this issue has not been appropriately addressed by many local authorities.

This amendment provides some protection for the Gypsy and Traveller communities, as it stipulates that they cannot be forcibly evicted unless they have refused a suitable alternative site. While this Bill is not about planning, we cannot ignore the impact it is going to have, if passed, on nomadic communities at a time when there are too few suitable sites.

It is encouraging to hear that, in Leeds, there have been systems established and sites made available to address this issue. It is even more encouraging still to hear that the noble Lord, Lord Greenhalgh, is taking steps to encourage these types of systems across the country.

This amendment would provide appropriate protection for Travellers and Gypsies, while also ensuring that, where a suitable alternative site is available, this cannot be refused. Further, it highlights why more must be done to encourage local authorities to provide suitable sites for Gypsies and Travellers.

[Lord Pannick (CB)]

My Lords, I have a question for the Minister which is relevant to Amendment 55ZB, in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Whitaker. The noble Baroness will know that the offence which will be created by new Clause 63 contains a defence in subsection (6), at line 40 of page 59 of the Bill. The defence is that it is open to the Traveller to say that he or she had a “reasonable excuse” for not moving on when asked to. Does the noble Baroness accept that it would be open to the Traveller to say, “I have a reasonable excuse for not moving on; my reasonable excuse is that there is no suitable pitch in the local authority area to which I can go, and it is therefore completely unreasonable on the facts of my case to expect me to move on”? Does the noble Baroness accept that it would be open to the Traveller to present that defence? It is certainly the defence I would advise the Traveller to use, were I representing him or her. If the noble Baroness accepts that that defence in principle would be open to the Traveller, I respectfully suggest that much of the force of the amendment in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Whitaker, is reduced, because there is a balance in this provision.

I make one other point: I do not myself find it particularly helpful when we are debating these difficult issues—and they are difficult issues—relating to a balance between competing interests for noble Lords to refer to Auschwitz. Let us be proportionate and reasonable about these issues. We have here a difficult question of the rights and interests of the Traveller and the rights and interests of the occupier or owner of land. I remind noble Lords that this criminal offence applies only if it can be shown that the occupation of the land by the Traveller is causing “significant damage”, “significant disruption” or “significant distress”. I understand the concerns, but let us keep a sense of balance and recognise, if I am right in my understanding of subsection (6), that there is a defence open to the Traveller who can show that they have a reasonable excuse—which, so far as I can see, would cover the absence of suitable pitches in the area.

Domestic Abuse: Older People

Baroness Greengross Excerpts

Tuesday 30th November 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

The right reverend Prelate points to a real problem which particularly targets the vulnerable, never mind the elderly—who are obviously in that bracket. We have Action Fraud, which is trying to tackle the problem. Some information is also being put out to help to guard against people being scammed. I think every one of us has at some point had messages appearing on their email which appear to be genuinely from their bank but, in fact, are not.

[Baroness Greengross (CB)]

Can the Minister update the House on the statutory guidance on detecting and preventing the abuse of older people which the Home Office was working on after the Domestic Abuse Act received Royal Assent? This statutory guidance was a commitment by the Government in response to the two amendments I put forward on Report of the Bill and is a much-needed tool to combat the abuse of vulnerable adults.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

I am most grateful to the noble Baroness for the engagement that I had with her throughout the course of the Domestic Abuse Bill, which is now an Act. She is right that, to accompany it, draft statutory guidance has been developed to help provide an understanding of what might constitute domestic abuse and the impact on victims, including children, who will be recognised as victims in their own right. As required under Section 84 of the Act, the guidance has been subject to consultation, which began on 3 August and closed on 14 September. The responses are being analysed, and updates to the guidance are being made, taking into account the representations received, the content and the clarity.

Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill

Baroness Greengross Excerpts

2nd reading
Tuesday 14th September 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Greengross (CB)]

My Lords, my brief comments today will primarily focus on domestic abuse and serious violence. My key point regards how this legislation could be amended to help with the prevention of domestic abuse.

When this Chamber debated the Domestic Abuse Bill earlier this year, I raised the point that older people are often forgotten when discussing such legislation. A study by Hourglass—formerly Action on Elder Abuse, which I was proud to establish some years ago—found that 2.7 million people aged over 65 in the UK had experienced such abuse. It is totally unacceptable that anyone of any age should have to experience domestic abuse, where very often the perpetrator is a family member or someone close to the victim.

I will support the amendment led by the noble Baroness, Lady Bertin, and co-sponsored by the noble Lords, Lord Polak, Lord Russell and Lord Rosser, to extend the definition of “serious violence” to explicitly include domestic abuse, domestic homicide and sexual violence. Furthermore, I congratulate the domestic abuse commissioner for England and Wales, Nicole Jacobs, on her superb commitment and leadership in raising awareness of these issues.

Currently, the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill leaves it to local authorities to decide whether domestic abuse and sexual violence should be included in local strategies. Sadly, these crimes can happen to anyone of any age in any place. Any serious prevention strategy must start at the national level and include all local authorities. Home Office draft guidance currently says that local areas could consider including violence against women and girls as part of the new duty, if they choose to do so. This needs to be much stronger, and not optional, because we know that these crimes happen throughout the country, not just in certain areas. Preventing domestic abuse against not just women and girls but anyone of any age must be a top priority for us all.

When the Bill was debated in the other place, the Government rejected an amendment to extend the time that survivors have to report incidents of common assault to the police from the current six months to a maximum of 18 months. However, for many of those who are being abused, it is very difficult to report what is happening because coercive and controlling behaviour is sometimes part of the abuse. A mother being assaulted by her son or daughter may have a fear of stigma—of being seen as a bad parent—so she may be very reluctant to report the crime, and, if she does, it may be much later. Given that most domestic abuse, and certainly most of the abuse of older people, never gets reported, having a six-month time limit significantly reduces the chances of perpetrators being brought to justice. Can the Minister please explain why the Government wish to retain the current six-month limit?

Finally, there are significant issues relating to the Travelling community in Part 4—I support what the noble Baroness, Lady Whitaker, has said about this. I also note the issues regarding the rights to protest under Part 3. There is always a fine balance between protecting the rights of free speech and protest and ensuring public safety. In its current form, the Bill has yet to get this balance right. Therefore, once again, it falls to your Lordships’ House to perform its constitutional role as a revising Chamber to correct this.

Domestic Abuse: Older People

Baroness Greengross Excerpts

Wednesday 14th July 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con) [V]]

I thank my noble and learned friend for his question. There are various ways in which we can monitor this sort of crime. I have mentioned the Crime Survey for England and Wales. We have the National Domestic Abuse Helpline and of course we have police figures as well. So there are numerous different ways of measuring this.

[Baroness Greengross (CB) [V]]

My Lords, what assessment, if any, have Her Majesty’s Government made of the number of people over 65 who have been victims of non-fatal strangulation, suffocation or sexual violence? What support is provided to older victims of these types of abuse?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con) [V]]

My Lords, that is a very valid question in light of the legislation we have just passed. I do not know the overall figures for non-fatal strangulation but certainly we saw it as sufficiently worrying that we passed legislation to ensure that it was outlawed. In terms of people over 65, the House will know that over-75s are now being included in ONS statistics. I think that is a very good move.

Domestic Abuse Bill

Baroness Greengross Excerpts

Committee stage & Committee: 6th sitting (Hansard) & Committee: 6th sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 10th February 2021 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Greengross]

165: After Clause 72, insert the following new Clause—
“Duty to report suspected abuse
A local authority must ensure that, where any of its employees suspects in the course of carrying out a financial assessment for adult social care that a person is the victim of domestic abuse, the employee reports the suspected abuse to a relevant social worker or the police.”

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Greengross (CB) [V]]

My Lords, am I being heard?

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord McNicol of West Kilbride) (Lab)]

We can hear you. Carry on.

[Baroness Greengross (CB) [V]]

Thank you very much. I beg to move the amendment and speak also to Amendment 166. I have tabled these amendments to strengthen the Bill to protect older adults at risk of domestic abuse. I thank the noble Lords, Lord Hunt of Kings Heath and Lord Randall of Uxbridge, and the noble Baroness, Lady Meacher, for adding their names to both amendments.

Historically the abuse of older adults has been underreported and, sadly, all too often it is not viewed as a serious crime. It was nearly 30 years ago that I, as director of Age Concern England, with the help of the Department of Health, set up the charity Action on Elder Abuse, now Hourglass, of which I am proud to be a patron. However, it is with regret that I say that, after all these years, the prevention of abuse of older people is still not prioritised, despite one in six people over 65 in the UK having experienced some form of abuse. This is shocking, and the aim of these amendments is to improve the reporting and prevention of this crime.

Amendment 165 places a duty on local authorities to report suspected abuse. The financial assessment for adult social care carried out by local authorities is one area where the financial abuse of older people can be detected. The amendment would reinforce existing safeguards practised by local authorities and the duties of care detailed in the Care Act 2014. Figures from Hourglass show that 40% of calls to its helpline involve financial abuse. Often this is carried out by a family member or carer who is trusted by the victim, who is unaware that the abuse is taking place. Or perhaps the victim relies on the perpetrator for support and therefore feels unable to report the abuse.

Reinforcing the duty of local authorities to report this abuse through the amendment is essential to safeguarding adults at risk. This is particularly so for those who need social care, as they are often more vulnerable and may not be able to speak out. I co-chair the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Dementia. Dementia is a condition that 850,000 people in the UK live with. Further, one in three people born in the UK this year will likely develop some form of dementia at some point in their life, according to Alzheimer’s Research UK figures. People living with this condition are much more vulnerable than most to financial and other forms of abuse, because they may not be aware of what is happening—or, if they are, they may not be considered a reliable witness if they report the abuse. Therefore, strengthening the duty on local authorities to report while carrying out adult social care financial assessments is crucial to preventing the financial abuse of older adults at risk.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

I can certainly look into that for the noble and learned Baroness and ask that it be included.

[Baroness Greengross (CB) [V]]

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have taken part. I am most grateful. The understanding and special knowledge that many of them shared was very helpful and gave me a lot of hope for the future. I particularly thank the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, because, as I have known for many years, he is aware of all the problems involved, physical, financial, et cetera.

The noble Lord, Lord Randall, pointed out that there is less impetus in reporting these issues than those of younger people, and we must ask why. The noble Baroness, Lady Meacher, identified the complexity of these issues and how existing relationships sometimes determine what is happening and what is reported. I was aware of her reluctance to involve the police, but my experience with the Met in London is that it is often the police who uncover aspects of bad care, no care or, worse, abuse that other people do not know about, so we disagree on that.

The noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, had some reservations relating to a lack of awareness about these issues. I agree with her. As she pointed out, cultural change is needed. The noble Baroness, Lady Hodgson, emphasised how training is essential because many older people unfortunately face issues, as we have heard about in this debate. The noble Lord, Lord Rooker, highlighted that the family is not always as loving and supportive as in the ideal situation that we are talking about and would like to see, and the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, emphasised how professional input is needed, whoever reports these issues. The noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, pointed out that we need to give attention to this problem, which we must tackle. It has been tackled better in Scotland and in Wales, which is quite unacceptable. The noble Lord, Lord Rosser, said that we must not leave older people out, which I am afraid has happened so often until now. I am not sure that without some measures we will do enough to protect the people to whom these two amendments apply.

The Minister emphasised how local authorities are well equipped and should deal with this problem, and how the police have the right of entry when necessary. But I have to say to her that, in spite of the fact that they have the right of entry and that local authorities are well equipped, there are problems, and I hope that I have highlighted them in a way that means that your Lordships will understand that they need highlighting.

As many people have said, I have worked on these issues for many years, and I feel that what we have in place is just not sufficient to make the system work well and ensure that older people have the rights to the protection of society and to the bringing to justice of perpetrators of abuse that they should have. Whatever our age, we are adults and are part of this country’s population, and we must not leave this huge number of people with fewer rights to help and care than other, younger people have. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment but hope that this matter will be taken further.

Amendment 165 withdrawn.

Domestic Abuse Bill

Baroness Greengross Excerpts

2nd reading & 2nd reading (Hansard) & 2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Tuesday 5th January 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Greengross (CB) [V]]

My Lords, the Domestic Abuse Bill is welcome legislation and long overdue. I want to begin by thanking the Minister, the noble Baroness, Lady Williams, for her introduction and her interest in this Bill, which she has demonstrated over some years. The overall thrust of the Bill is positive: it strengthens support for people who have suffered from domestic abuse and helps bring the perpetrators to justice.

However, there is one area of domestic abuse which has been completely omitted from the legislation and which your Lordships’ House will need to address as a matter of extreme importance and urgency. The Domestic Abuse Bill is silent on the abuse of older people. Further, when the Bill was debated in the other place in the spring of last year, the abuse of older people was not mentioned once. However, we know that many older people are at risk of becoming victims of physical, financial, sexual or psychological abuse. Many others suffer abuse due to simple neglect. It is likely that, during the Covid-19 lockdown restrictions, the abuse of older people has increased, perhaps substantially.

A study by Hourglass, formerly Action on Elder Abuse, which I was proud to establish some years ago and of which I am a patron, found that 2.7 million people aged over 65 in the UK had experienced abuse. I am sure that all noble Members will agree that this is an outrageous figure—it is not a definite number but only an estimate; it is obviously short in that respect.

World Health Organization research from 2017 found that one in six people over 60 years of age had suffered from some kind of abuse—that means 141 million people every year globally. We know that at least that number are abused, but, historically, very few statistics have been collected on this issue, with most official statistics not even including adults over the age of 74, which is an absolute disgrace.

The Metropolitan Police has expressed concern at the underreporting of abuse against older people. Further, when such abuse is reported, figures from 2017 show that only 0.7% of those cases result in prosecution. This is an appalling figure. We know that many victims of elder abuse are reluctant to report abuse because it is by family members. In cases where parents are abused by their own children, they often feel that the abuse reflects on them as parents and that, in some way, they have failed. In some cases they may have done, but that does not make any difference to the fact that we are talking about very serious abuse very often.

If there is suspected abuse of a child, a senior social worker can be given powers of entry by a magistrate to investigate. In Scotland, where I know the system is different, this power of entry applies also in cases of suspected abuse against vulnerable adults of any age. It should also be the case for adults who are at risk in England. Although the system is different, they should have at least the same legal protection as their neighbours in Scotland. We must introduce that, even though we know that the differences in our legal systems make it complex, but it can be done.

Section 76 of the Serious Crime Act 2015 covers coercive or controlling behaviours by family members who live with their victims. This must be broadened to include perpetrators who reside—

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

I am sorry to interrupt, but could I remind noble Lords of the four-minute advisory speaking limit?

[Baroness Greengross (CB) [V]]

I am stopping, my Lords.

Local authorities carry out care needs assessments for people needing care; they also do financial assessments to see what assistance people need to cover the cost of their care. When they do such assessments, there needs to be a duty to report any suspected abuse, because it is a serious failure in our system which needs urgently to be addressed.

Immigration and Social Security Co-ordination (EU Withdrawal) Bill

Baroness Greengross Excerpts

Committee stage & Committee: 4th sitting (Hansard) & Committee: 4th sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 16th September 2020 Lords Chamber

We are entering a new era, and the UK will be more dependent on our own expertise in planning for the future across the economy and in statistics—and, indeed, in crafting their collection, analysis and presentation. The Government should listen carefully to my noble friend Lord Hodgson.

[Baroness Greengross (CB) [V]]

My Lords, I will start by highlighting how immigration is enriching our society. I am totally committed to the cultural and racial diversity that it has made possible. These amendments require the Government to prepare a charter setting out the objectives for EU immigration and to establish an office for demographic change which would examine and report on the impact of the Government’s demographic objectives in relation to immigration. I strongly support these objectives and congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Hodgson, on his extremely important report. The report highlights that the population of the UK has grown by 6.6 million since 2001 and is estimated to grow by another 5.6 million by 2041. Our population is growing by 1,100 people every day and 61% of new migrants are from nations outside the EU.

As chief executive of the International Longevity Centre UK, I contributed to the noble Lord’s Civitas report and highlighted that by 2030 the number of older people in Britain is set to increase by half. The UK faces a situation where there are increased numbers of older workers crowded out of employment due to population increases. There are currently 1 million unemployed people over the age of 50 in the UK. Some 41% of people over 50 have at some stage been unemployed for over 12 months, which is a higher figure than for any other age group. The Government have a strategy to ensure that people can enjoy at least five extra healthy, independent years of life by 2035. Current population growth in the UK puts this strategy at risk, as older people have reduced opportunities for work and income—plus it puts a greater strain on the NHS, as we know, and the other government services required to deliver this strategy.

I spoke at Second Reading of the impact on the social care sector which, like the NHS, relies on immigration to fill vacancies. There are 122,000 vacancies in social care at any one time. Part of developing sustainable demographic objectives for the UK should include having a health and social care system that is not reliant on the immigration system alone in order to function.

These amendments are an opportunity for the UK to set demographic objectives that ensure greater sustainability and maintain a quality of life for the people of the United Kingdom, whatever their age.

Immigration and Social Security Co-ordination (EU Withdrawal) Bill

Baroness Greengross Excerpts

2nd reading & 2nd reading (Hansard) & 2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 22nd July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Greengross (CB) [V]]

My Lords, I acknowledge the comments from the Minister and welcome the Government’s intention to make significant improvements to the pay and conditions of social care workers. The health and care visa route recently announced excludes social care worker from its list of skilled workers. In Australia, New Zealand and Canada, as mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Naseby, where a points system like that proposed by the UK Government operates, they have included an alternative immigration route for social care workers.

In April 2017, the New Zealand Government increased care and support workers’ pay by 21% to improve recruitment and retention in the sector. That also resulted in greater parity between social care and health workers and meant that migrants in the sector were more likely to meet the income threshold under New Zealand’s points-based immigration system. In Canada, like in the UK, social care workers are in demand across the country. There they are listed in the target occupations list, which means that migrants with experience or relevant qualifications can gain a Canadian permanent resident visa.

If the Government will not create a visa route to allow social care workers into this country, prior to the new system being introduced next January they must develop a strategy for social care that will ensure an adequate supply of labour in the sector. Nearly 8% of roles in adult social care are currently vacant, equivalent to 122,000 vacancies at any one time. We know that the NHS is a direct competitor for staff in some roles and can offer enhanced pay levels and a national career structure. For example, nurses working in the NHS earn 7% more than those working in adult social care—a gap that is set to grow under the recent NHS pay deal.

Parity of recognition for social care staff is acknowledged as important. It is more than important; it is essential. I hope the Government will recognise this and act accordingly.

Domestic Abuse Bill

Baroness Greengross Excerpts

Monday 9th March 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I wholeheartedly agree. The point about a trauma-informed response goes not only to those women—and it is mostly women—who suffer domestic abuse but also to their children. It informs literally everything around that trauma, whether it is the policeman who is called to the house, the healthcare professional assisting a woman in hospital or the person taking a statement, if she has to give one. I know the police are well on in bringing forward training for first responders, but everyone has a role to play in this.

[Baroness Greengross (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister accept that quite a lot of domestic abuse is intergenerational and is unreported, because a mother is very unlikely to report abuse committed by her son? She would feel ashamed. I think we overlook the amount of abuse that is committed in this way.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I do not think that that point has ever been made in this House; the noble Baroness raises a disturbing issue. It is true: people perhaps think they see it but cannot pinpoint it. It goes back to the point made earlier about people being trained to see these things, because some older people are in that horrendous situation.

Immigration: International Students

Baroness Greengross Excerpts

Tuesday 10th October 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

A tourist should come here for a specified length of time, which is not usually a year and is generally under three months. When that stay becomes a year, that person becomes somebody who avails themselves of the infrastructure and public services of this country.

[Baroness Greengross (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister not agree that the students in the figures that she cited would have registered before there was any thought of Brexit and so forth? As someone who spent several years at the London School of Economics, I am very aware of the bond of respect and loyalty to the country where people study and live for sometimes four or five years; it is very well known. The benefits to that country whether in trade, political co-operation or security matters are immense. Can the Minister not say that students should be considered quite separately from other immigrants who come to this country?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I am afraid that I cannot say that. But my parents were immigrants to this country. They went to university in another country but certainly made this country their home. I agree that the bond that the student has with the country where they study often means that they stay here to work and contribute hugely to the economy of this country. In fact, the MAC is conducting a study on the effect of student migration and will report soon.