Northern Ireland (Executive Formation) Bill
Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord EmpeyWednesday 17th July 2019
(4 years, 9 months ago)
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Baroness Goldie (Con)
It appears that we are still on Amendment 20, which needs to be debated before we consider Amendment 20A.
Lord Empey
My Lords, I follow the contribution from the noble Lord, Lord Dubs, who has frequently drawn attention to similar issues. I have no doubt that, as part of the United Kingdom, if it is a decision of the country to try to help people, it is reasonable that that is spread out as evenly as possible. However, I would draw the attention of the House to the fact that the structures of local government, in particular, in Northern Ireland are radically different. Local authorities have no locus in this at all. There are health and social services boards, a housing executive and housing associations, but their funding would have to come from Stormont. That is the conundrum we are confronted with. It is not that there is any lack of hospitality or willingness to play a part in a UK-wide problem. The structures are radically different, and all the social services and housing issues are funded through Stormont and not through local government. Members have to be aware that that is why there is an issue here.
On housing, as I said earlier with regard to welfare mitigation, part of the problem is that we do not have the appropriate housing units in many cases, so we rely heavily on voluntary organisations, Church organisations and others. However, there has to be funding stream for them to deliver their services and offer help. Members must understand that that is why we have a difficulty. It is not as if we can go to Sheffield or Coventry City Councils, which can provide services; I hope that Members understand that. We have Syrians and other such people coming to our shores from distressing situations. People are happy to rally round them, but getting funding flowing has to happen via Stormont. That is the obstacle in our way. Perhaps the Minister can address that in his response.
Brexit: Northern Ireland Backstop
Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Empey
Lord Empey
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what proposals they are currently putting forward to the European Union to replace the backstop in the European Union Withdrawal Agreement; and what is the estimated impact of each such proposal on the annual value of goods crossing from Northern Ireland to the Republic of Ireland.
Baroness Goldie (Con)
My Lords, the Prime Minister has set out three ways in which legally binding changes to the backstop could be achieved. First, the backstop could be replaced with alternative arrangements to avoid a hard border between Northern Ireland and Ireland. Secondly, there could be a legally binding time limit to the existing backstop, or thirdly, there could be a legally binding unilateral exit clause to that backstop.
Lord Empey (UUP)
My Lords, obviously this is an important week as there is a big delegation of Government Ministers in Brussels. It would be helpful if the noble Baroness could tell the House why we are not looking at an alternative which involves using the Belfast Good Friday agreement, the institutions set up by it and the treaties under which it has formed, as part of a solution rather than as part of the problem. I fear that we will end up with a proposal coming back with a codicil or something that is ultimately of little value, and in that case we run into severe difficulties at the end of next month. Is the department prepared to look seriously at a meaningful alternative, rather than tinkering with questionable legal niceties?
Baroness Goldie
The noble Lord raises a very important point. First of all, the Government are utterly committed to supporting the Belfast agreement and all that that stands for. The Government have set out a range of commitments to Northern Ireland, including a strong role for what we all hope will be a restored Northern Ireland Assembly and Northern Ireland Executive. This will mean that the devolved institutions in Northern Ireland will have a strong role, both in any decision to bring the backstop into effect and in its operation if it does come into effect. I repeat that we are committed to upholding the Belfast agreement and will do everything in our power to avoid a hard border between Northern Ireland and Ireland.