War in Ukraine

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle

Wednesday 25th October 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

It is an important area, and we have been able to provide significant help with medical support. That has included supply of equipment and goods that are assisting Ukraine in defence of its country. We are also, within the UK, helping to treat some wounded members of the Ukrainian armed forces. We have expert medical facilities available within the MoD medical services and there are other ways that we are investigating, along with allies, how we can continue to provide that essential area of support.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, following on the humanitarian theme, the Minister may be aware of a documentary airing on ITV this week, “Ukraine’s Stolen Children”, about the very large number of children that have been kidnapped, deceived and dragged into Russia and not returned except after the most difficult struggle. Can the noble Baroness assure me that the British Government are doing everything they can to help the families who are trying to recover their children and to document what is happening for potential future prosecutions—in essence, doing everything they can to assist families in this terrible situation?

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

The noble Baroness raises a very important issue that will strike at the cords of the hearts of us all. I can reassure her that the United Kingdom Government have been assisting the International Criminal Court with resource, advice and support. We have also been assisting Ukraine with its internal domestic legal system. She is quite correct: what has been happening in respect of these children is utterly appalling and repugnant. We will do anything we can within the limited scope we have—limited because those children are now in some other state’s jurisdiction. She is right, it is appalling, and we will continue to do whatever we can to help Ukraine resolve these matters.

Ukraine

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle

Monday 15th May 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

The United Kingdom was instrumental in getting an oil price cap placed on Russian oil, so oil prices have fallen significantly for Russia, apparently lowering its energy revenues by more than 25%. We as a country always advocate that people should not be supporting the illegal invasion of Ukraine and that they should be looking at every activity in which they engage to work out whether it supports Russia or not. We are aware that the effect of sanctions on Russia and the Russian economy has been significant, such that Russia is in recession. Russia’s GDP declined by 2% to 3% in 2022, and forecasts suggest that it will fall a further 1.5% in 2023, which is apparently the longest recession for more than 25 years. There is evidence that Russia is being starved of the key western goods and technology it requires, and we are seeing that in its inability to produce modern equipment and up-to-date technology. It seems that its larder is bare in that respect.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, I can help the Minister regarding her response to the noble Baroness, Lady Hodgson. During my visit to Kyiv last November, I heard some interesting reports from the EU mission that female police officers were stepping into those roles when male police officers had gone off to fight. The EU had been supplying them with appropriately fitted bullet-proof vests and other safety materials. Does the Minister know whether we have been giving any support along those lines? I entirely understand if she would like to write to me on that. That could be an obvious and positive way of encouraging the use of female police officers and female involvement in the justice system as a way forward.

I am pleased to see that the Statement contains a paragraph on the important and pressing issue of the safety of the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant. Reuters reported a couple of days ago that the IAEA chief was planning to take to the UN Security Council a proposed deal which it was hoped both Ukraine and Russia would sign, in an attempt to keep the largest nuclear power plant in Europe safe. Can the Minister tell me anything about that? Are the Government prepared to provide any support that might be useful, because the obvious problem will be how to monitor the situation and see what is happening on the ground? The Ukrainian atomic energy agency has expressed concern about the loss of staff. Are the Government prepared to offer any help they can in that area?

AUKUS Defence Partnership

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle

Thursday 16th March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

To be absolutely accurate, I did not use the word “embarrassing”. Nothing on which I represent the MoD on at this Dispatch Box is ever to be embarrassing; it is a privilege to represent the MoD in this Chamber and to do so on such a positive occasion as this one. I do not have details as to how the benchmark will apply, nor an answer on whether there is to be some measurement of appraisal against what other countries do. I undertake to investigate that, and if there is any information that I can share with the noble Lord, I will do so.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, following on from the question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Browne of Ladyton, we are talking about a very high-cost method of military defence, financially and in terms of resources. Are the Government aware of the level of controversy in Australia about the AUKUS project? There are concerns about the secrecy of the initial signing, which the Australian Greens described as reflecting a democratic deficit, concerns about setting off a regional arms race, and concerns about where it will leave Australian sovereignty and control over its Armed Forces. Australia has signed up twice previously to have nuclear-propelled submarines and subsequently withdrawn from those projects. Are the Government taking adequate account of the political risks involved?

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

The Government live in the same world as Australia. Australia, the United Kingdom, the United States and many of our partners and allies are very conscious that the level of threat confronting us is virtually unprecedented. We must be equipped to deal with that.

I will not seek to speak on behalf of the Australian Government. They made an analysis of what they required in their defence capability and to enhance their ability to preserve the rule of law and order within that region, and to ensure that international law is upheld by all parties and all countries. I can only conclude that Australia came to the view that this would be a very sensible and valuable addition to its defence capability. Certainly, in so far as addressing the challenges to which I have just referred, this would seem to be a sound decision on the part of the Australian Government. It is not for me to comment on Australian politics, but the Prime Minister of Australia has been very clear, as was evidenced by his presence in America when this announcement was made on Tuesday, that this is a very important development for Australia and a very significant addition to the ability to address any threats or breaches of law that may arise in the region.

Ukraine

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle

Wednesday 21st December 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness for referring to that report. I am not familiar with it, but I shall now make myself familiar with it. I hear her plea, so we will look closely at the report and consider what else we can do.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, this will be the last Green group contribution in the House this year, barring any last-minute recalls—I fear I may be tempting fate—so I hope that the House will forgive me for taking one second to thank, as many others have, all of the staff, who, mostly invisibly to the outside world, keep us operating here through the unsociable and highly unpredictable hours to which we cling. I offer profound thanks to all of the staff.

I am very glad that we are taking this Ukraine Statement, but it is a grave pity that yesterday’s biodiversity COP 15 Oral Statement in the other place has not been picked up today. I hope that someone can confirm that we will at least be doing that belatedly in the new year.

On the Ukraine Statement, my question follows on from that of the noble Baronesses opposite. The Statement focuses on Russian attacks on military targets in Ukraine in this illegal war but, of course, at the moment a lot of the Russian military activity focuses on attacks on civilian infrastructure, particularly energy infrastructure. One of the things that I found from my visit last month to Kyiv and surrounding areas, particularly Irpin and Bucha, was that the Ukrainians are working very hard to restore things and keep things going, even under this continuing attack on civilian infrastructure. One of the things that they have found relates to renewable infrastructure. I heard about solar panels on hospitals and medical facilities, which mean that they can continue to keep functioning even when the rest of the system goes down. Can the noble Baroness reassure me on what the Government are doing? She talked about our attention span not being short. Are we focusing on helping the Ukrainians to support that essential civilian infrastructure? Are we particularly looking at rebuilding, now and into the future, using resilient renewable infrastructure that can be there for the long term for the Ukrainians?

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

Yes, I heard the noble Baroness’s remark about the repeat of the COP 15 Statement. I understand that there has been a genuine logistics problem with the sheer volume of urgent business arriving in this House. Indeed, I did not expect to be attending to two items on the last day before the Recess, but I am delighted to do so as they are on such important subjects.

Attention is certainly being paid to infrastructure and reconstruction, but the noble Baroness will understand that, whatever plans we develop with our partners and allies—and very good plans are being developed—this anticipates and has to be predicated on some sort of stability and peace within the region. Otherwise, we will not have an environment in which we can safely start addressing that reconstruction. So it is very important to observe that there is still a job to be done in seeing off this illegal attack by President Putin.

On the issues to which the noble Baroness referred, I described in some detail what we have been involved in, but I can provide some more detail that might interest her. We are providing support for Ukraine’s early recovery through the partnership fund for a resilient Ukraine, which is a £37 million multi-donor fund that the UK belongs to. Through this, the UK, alongside other countries, has already provided extensive support for the repair of buildings, as well as other activities in the Kyiv Oblast and other parts of Ukraine.

A UK Export Finance initiative has also committed £3.5 billion of cover to Ukraine to enable support for priority projects, such as infrastructure, healthcare, clean energy and security sectors. Working with the Government of Ukraine, the UK Government have identified an initial eight construction projects to be supported by UK Export Finance. This is all about helping to repair Ukraine’s critical infrastructure, laying the foundations for economic recovery.

Next year, the United Kingdom will host the 2023 reconstruction conference, which will be a very important occasion that will be informed by a lot of the information that has already come into our domain within this Chamber in the last year, not least the report to which the noble Baroness referred. This will be an important development. Obviously, in reconstruction, one imagines that attention will be paid to the most energy-efficient technologies, and one would hope that that would be a matter of explicit consideration. But I repeat that, although we would love to make progress with this, we cannot do so safely until we have got under control the conflict situation that exists in Ukraine at the moment. The best thing that can happen is that this degraded, demoralised and, frankly, immoral Russian Government instruct their troops to withdraw from Ukraine—that would be good news for the Russian people—and then let Ukraine get on with the job of building for the future, with help from friends and allies.

Service Family Accommodation

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle

Wednesday 21st December 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

On the general question of availability of MoD accommodation, we are very careful about how we manage accommodation because we have ongoing obligations to rotating staff and we must ensure that we can accommodate them safely when that accommodation is required. I do not have information on the specific location to which my noble friend refers, but if she permits, I will inquire and write to her.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, referred to black mould. Since the coroner’s verdict on the tragic death of Awaab Ishak, there has been growing public awareness of and concern about that issue. I have visited family and single military accommodation where you could smell the mould; it clearly was there. Given the rising level of public concern and awareness, and of medical awareness, have the Government done anything to step up efforts to tackle black mould in service accommodation?

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

Let me reassure the noble Baroness. One of my questions to my officials earlier today was exactly the one I indicated to the noble Baroness, Lady Smith: what does somebody do who is affected by damp and mould in a property? The answer is that a dedicated damp and mould team has been set up by DIO, and it will be stood up during January 2023. A dedicated hotline is in place for damp and mould, and has been live since last April. It also works on a triaging approach, so that there is an opportunity to assess the situation. A report of mould leads to a professional survey report being commissioned and, if required, that is followed by an offer of alternative accommodation. We simply will not have people living in non-habitable premises.

I can share with the Chamber that Amey is piloting a video project to see whether this helps to improve the pace at which things are dealt with, and awareness of conditions within the property. Often, that helps to decide at the triaging stage how urgent the problem is. It is a pilot, and no doubt we will be reviewing it, but I assure the noble Baroness that we are cognisant of the threat of damp and mould, particularly in the light of the recent tragedy involving the little boy, and we are doing everything we can to mitigate the effect.

Afghanistan: Independent Inquiry

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle

Tuesday 20th December 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I hear the noble Lord and I will certainly seek to obtain further clarification. I rather took it at face value—that there will be closed hearings, as a statement of fact—but I will go back and double check.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, I join the Front Bench spokespeople in welcoming in particular the part of the Statement that says that

“all service personnel, veterans, and current and former civil servants who are asked to engage with the inquiry”

will be

“given full legal and pastoral support.”

That is obviously appropriate, given the horrors of what so many people went through in Afghanistan, including those affected by the chaotic withdrawal of UK and other troops, the emotional impact of which we have discussed previously your Lordships’ House. I note that that is probably continuing, given that just today, the Taliban have said they are planning to ban girls and women from university education in Afghanistan—just the sort of thing that people saw themselves as there fighting for.

My question relates to non-military, non-official witnesses, who I assume will be Afghans. Should they be available for the inquiry, will they also get full legal and pastoral support? Obviously, we would need top-quality interpreters and support for those witnesses, many of whom may well be refugees. Will they be given the opportunity to reach the UK and testify to the inquiry if they are not currently here?

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

The information I have about the support being provided to witnesses is that all members of the Armed Forces, including the Reserve Forces, MoD civilians and veterans, are entitled to legal support, at public expense, when they face allegations that relate to actions taken during their employment or service and when they were performing their duties. Witnesses called up by the inquiry will be contacted by the MoD to discuss appropriate support. My understanding is that this is for everyone, serving and civilian, and both those giving evidence for and against the MoD. I have no further information about the position on support for witnesses who may be coming from abroad, but I undertake to look into that, and I will write to the noble Baroness if I can get further information.

Mali: UN Peacekeeping Mission

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle

Tuesday 15th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

Yes, I say to my noble friend that that source of support which we provide is important. Through that base, we are providing training to peace- keepers from a wide range of troop-contributing countries, the majority in Africa. A lot of good work is coming out of there and we see that role continuing. We think it is an important contribution to the broader environment of west Africa and certainly anticipate that the base will continue to be strategically important from which to continue providing that help. Again, trying to look at how all the pieces of the jigsaw will ultimately fit together, we need to await further discussions from the Accra initiative and see what the likely outcomes are. Then it will be easier for all the participating nations to work out what they can provide.

The encouraging thing about the Accra initiative is the interest it has generated. My understanding is that we have received interest and support from the Germans; we have also received positive responses from the Czechs, the Norwegians and the Dutch. I indicated earlier the extent of the nations covered—the United Nations and the EU as well—by the forthcoming meeting, next week, so there is a lot of interest. As I said earlier, it looks to me as though people are prepared to endeavour to pool their talent and expertise to see how best they can provide the support that is undoubtedly needed. As I said to my noble friend Lord Howell, terrorism is still there; it is not disappearing, and other factors are very troubling.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, the Minister has spoken at some length about the hideous human rights-abusing nature of the Wagner Group. I can only concur with her. Does she agree that this really adds force to the arguments for what is generally known as the UN mercenary convention—otherwise, in formal terms, the International Convention against the Recruitment, Use, Financing and Training of Mercenaries—which has been ratified by 46 states? Will the UK Government look again at signing that convention, promoting it and trying to set a new international framework against the use of mercenaries?

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I will call on my colleague in the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office to answer the noble Baroness, and perhaps to do so more ably than I could achieve. I think we are all united in agreeing that what Wagner represents is repugnant. I do not know if I replied to the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, on his specific point about proscription, for which I apologise, so let me tell him that there is a lot of sympathy with the sentiment which he expressed. I know that my right honourable friend James Heappey undertook to have discussions with the Home Office, and I would certainly be very much in sympathy with seeing what we can do along these lines. As to the noble Baroness’s question, it will fall to one of my colleagues to give a more specific answer.

Ukraine Update

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle

Monday 5th September 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

On the specific question about the 2 million tonnes of grain, I do not have information as to where that has gone or which countries have received it. I can undertake to make inquiries and if an answer is forthcoming, I shall write to the noble Lord.

He is quite right that the consequence of all this is impacting desperately on the poorer countries of the world. It may be a considerable time before there is a manifest expansion of the grain exports that would both provide food to sources that need it and reduce the price and cost of the food supply. That may take a little time.

In the meantime, we as a country have produced £372 million pounds for the countries most impacted by rising global food prices, which was announced at the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting in June. The UK and partners also secured the largest ever World Bank financial commitment of $170 billion for low-income countries around the world. That is supporting countries facing economic hardship as a result of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

On the final point, this war is going, I am afraid, to be a protracted affair. At the end of the day, how it unfolds and what the consequences are will very much depend on Ukraine’s decisions about what Ukraine wants to do. That is not for others to interfere in. They must come to their own view, when they think they can, as to what options are available to them.

On the final question about communications with Russia, it is very difficult to maintain diplomatic relations with a country which has behaved as appallingly as Russia has. What I can say to the noble Lord is that at defence level, MoD maintains communication with the Russian MoD to try to ensure that we understand the escalation and implications of any military activity. At that level there is engagement, but I am afraid that diplomatic engagement in the current situation is almost impossible to contemplate.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, I return to the section of the Statement referring to the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant, particularly the final part of that section which says that we will

“engage with Ukrainians to ensure no one’s safety is put at risk”.

Given that Reuters was reporting a couple of hours ago that the Ukrainian energy authority has just confirmed reports from the weekend that the sixth reactor has again been disconnected from the grid, due to the destruction of power lines, I do not really believe that the Government can say that they can ensure that no one’s safety will be put at risk. None the less, the Statement talks about engaging with the Ukrainians on this issue. Can the noble Baroness assure me that all possible diplomatic pressures are being used on the Russians to seek to push towards the demilitarisation and safe restoration of that area? In light of the fact that Ukraine is distributing iodine tablets to its population around the nuclear plant, are the Government working with the Inter-Agency Committee on Radiological and Nuclear Emergencies to ensure that international preparations, should the worst happen, are at the absolute highest level they could possibly be?

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

Again, I say to the noble Baroness that is somewhat out of my ministerial sphere but I am very sympathetic to her concerns. The Statement said that we will do our best to monitor what is happening; we will certainly engage with Ukrainian partners to understand what is going on. As I said to the noble Lords, Lord Newby and Lord Hylton, it is now very much a matter for the International Atomic Energy Authority to consider what it has found and what its recommendations are. It would be sensible for this country to work with other partners within the United Nations on that front. As the noble Viscount, Lord Stansgate, pointed out, these are serious issues. At the end of the day, we will work better in co-operation with the United Nations in trying to understand what is happening.

Ukraine: Military Equipment

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle

Monday 29th November 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

That would be a very alarming prognosis and a very unwelcome outcome, which I obviously hope can be avoided. The noble Lord is aware of the programme of engagement that has continued over a number of years with Ukraine. It is not just on the part of the UK, it is with our other allies, not least, as I said, within NATO. Ukraine enjoys a strong bilateral relationship with the United Kingdom; it is a relationship that we value and nurture and, as recent events have indicated, is it one that we support by deeds in addition to words.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Balfe, asks about the impact of arms sales on peace in eastern Europe. In the light of the US and allied withdrawal from Afghanistan, the broader pursuit of “America first” policies from Washington, and the fact that the UK is the world’s second-largest arms exporter, with the majority going to the Middle East, are the Government reviewing all arms sales and indeed the place of the UK arms industry? Are they truly counting the cost on UK and global security of our arms industry?

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

The UK Government take very seriously our responsibility for the security of this country and our support for our global allies. That is why we have a strong defence capability. The noble Baroness will be aware that exports of arms and weapons are monitored extremely closely under a very robust regime.

Armed Forces Bill

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle

Committee stage
Wednesday 27th October 2021 Grand Committee

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, I beg the Committee’s indulgence. This is my first time back in this Room, and I am afraid I got my body language wrong. I was hoping to come in before the noble Lord, Lord Coaker. Perhaps I may briefly speak in support of Amendment 5. The noble Lord, Lord Thomas, and the noble and learned Lord, Lord Thomas, as you would expect from legal people, were very carefully balanced, but I shall speak unashamedly in favour of the victims. The noble Lord, Lord Coaker, referred to the Times report about under-18s to which I was going to refer. I shall refer to another Times report from April, when 4,000 servicewomen and veterans came forward to speak about their concerns.

We know that there is a problem with prosecution of the crimes of rape, sexual assault and domestic violence in all areas, but it is obvious where we want to invest our effort. If we do so in the civilian courts, that is where the real speciality and ability will lie. I and others have framed this as an issue of violence against women and girls, but it is also worth thinking about male victims of domestic violence, rape and sexual assault, and how difficult it may be for them in that context.

This will be my only intervention in Committee. Your Lordships’ House is not taking recess for the COP 26 climate talks, although we recently took recess for the party conferences, which happen twice a year. I apologise that I will not be able to take a full part, but I hope to come back on Report.

Finally, there was a great deal of discussion of this at Second Reading, and I was expecting more discussion of Amendment 5 today, because this is something that we really need to see change and progress on.

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

First, I want to thank your Lordships for what has been a profound and stimulating discussion. I am conscious that much of the debate has centred on fairly technical legal issues, not least in particular reference to the criminal legal system, both for civilian and service justice systems. I shall do my best to address the issues raised.

By way of preface, in response to points notably made by the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, and the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, and echoed by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Thomas of Cwmgiedd, we all want a service justice system that is fit for purpose. I think we are all absolutely united in seeking that objective, and that is exactly what the Bill aims to achieve. That offers me the opportunity to say to your Lordships that much had to move at pace, involving a considerable volume of material. I apologise for that, as I know that you have all been deluged, first with the publication of the Henriques report and then the tabling of government amendments to create the defence serious crime unit.

While I think that these are regarded as very positive developments, I understand that it has put pressure on everybody to try properly to assimilate and understand the report and amendments. I took the view that the amendments did not make a lot of sense without the report, and I had to navigate my way through a fairly tangled jungle of clearances to make sure that we could get both things out into the public domain. I felt that it was important that we did that; it seemed to me that the amendments the Government were then able to table to the Bill in respect of the defence serious crime unit provided reassurance and perhaps answered some of the questions raised today. I think that gives a clear signal of intent about the desire to ensure, as a number of noble Lords have observed this afternoon, that the criminal justice system is absolutely fit for purpose and as good as it can be.

I will now address the amendments in this group. I shall do that beginning with Amendment 5 and then move on to Amendment 6—and then I shall speak to the intention expressed by the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Craig of Radley, to oppose Clause 7. Finally, I shall speak to Amendment 7 in the name of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Morris of Aberavon.

The noble Lord, Lord Coaker, said that there has to be confidence in the justice system, and I totally agree with that. He rightly referred to recent statistics, which are deeply troubling—and I make no pretence about that. As he probably knows, there has been ongoing work in the MoD over the last decade to try to address cultures and behaviour, to provide people who have been treated wrongly—whether it is the victims of unacceptable behaviour or of a criminal offence—with the confidence to come forward, and to try to reassure those within our Armed Forces, not least our women, that this is a good and safe place to be. That has been a Herculean struggle; it has been a huge challenge, and I am not going to pretend otherwise. What I can say is that there has been systematic progress of very good work.

The noble Lord, Lord Coaker, referred to the Commons Select Committee report, in which the MoD very readily engaged—and the Secretary of State took the courageous and absolutely correct decision to allow serving women to appear as witnesses before the committee. I thought he was absolutely right to do that, as it is the only way in which we can get evidence out into the open. Very troubling evidence was heard, and some of it was utterly appalling. What I drew comfort from was that, to the end, a very high percentage of the women who gave evidence said that they would recommend a career in the Armed Forces to other women. I felt encouraged by that. There was recognition that, while unacceptable practices and attitudes have existed in the past, there is a discernible recognition that the direction has changed.

In relation to the stats to which the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, referred, they are troubling, but they do tell us that people are now coming forward. One problem that we had was that people would not come forward; they did not have the confidence to do that—and that to me strikes at the very heart of the probity and integrity of, and the confidence that people should rightly have in, the system.

We have been and are reforming the service complaints system. A huge amount of work has been done among the single services to that end.

AUKUS

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle

Thursday 16th September 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord. He used an interesting adjective in relation to this agreement; he described it as “momentous”, which I think is an accurate and apposite assessment. His concern about nuclear materials was basically whether we have asked our URENCO partners for permission. In the next 18 months, we will consider a wide range of technical, legal and practical issues for this project and do not want to pre-empt those findings. I reassure the noble Lord that the usual high standards of security will be maintained. The UK’s nuclear enterprise has more than 60 years of experience of delivering world-class, nuclear-powered submarine capabilities safely.

On the interesting issue of the IAEA, we have spoken to the IAEA director-general and will keep in close touch. As the noble Lord indicated, it does not have competence for nuclear defence issues, but we will engage with it as appropriate during the consultation period to ensure that we are fulfilling our obligations and to give absolute confidence that no HEU will be diverted for weapons purposes.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, in the foreword to the integrated review, the Prime Minister says that the UK

“will make tackling climate change and biodiversity loss its number one international priority.”

The Climate Transparency Report on G20 countries ranked Australia in the bottom bracket of every climate action area, except one. The report says that the Morrison Government have no national plans to expand renewable energy, phase out coal, phase out fossil fuel vehicles, retrofit buildings or reduce deforestation. This Statement says that handing over nuclear submarines is

“a decision of the utmost gravity, requiring perhaps the closest relationship of trust”.

How can the UK trust such a criminally negligent, environmentally destructive state, given our stated top international priority and our position as the chair of COP?

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

There is broad understanding that Australia is a responsible state, and that the United States and United Kingdom, in being asked to engage with Australia in producing nuclear-powered submarines, are contributing to improving the climate, because they are replacing polluting diesel electric submarines, which do not seem a particularly attractive environmental proposition to anyone. Where I suspect the noble Baroness and I diverge is that I take the view that, where we are possessed by a multifaceted threat around the world and are only too aware of the gravity and, at times, unpredictability of that threat, it is imperative upon responsible states throughout the globe that we take appropriate action to anticipate, resist and address that threat. That is exactly what we are trying to do in the Indo-Pacific area, which is why we are pleased and proud to be a partner of Australia, along with the United States, in this new proposition of AUKUS.

Sheffield Forgemasters

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle

Wednesday 8th September 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

My noble friend asks an important question. We operate under strict regulations that preserve the commercial market. Where competition exists, MoD contracts are tendered in an open and fair competition and companies will not be disadvantaged from bidding for MoD contracts where they have the required capability.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, given that, three weeks ago, the Swedish steelmaker SSAB supplied Volvo with what was described as the world’s first “fossil-free steel”, produced with iron using 100% hydrogen, does the Minister see this acquisition as a step towards the development of such environmentally friendly procedures for the production of steel in the UK? If Sheffield Forgemasters is not the vehicle, how will we catch up with Sweden in this important industrial area?

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

Well, I feel very inadequately qualified to give the noble Baroness an intelligent answer. What I would say is that, in so far as the MoD premise is concerned and in so far as our responsibility extends to Sheffield Forgemasters, as I indicated earlier, it will be for the board and managers of that company to determine how they comply with climate change aspirations and targets for emissions.

Secret Documents

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle

Wednesday 30th June 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

As far as the noble Lord’s question relates to the process of investigation, he will appreciate that I am unable to comment on any details pertaining to that. As I have already indicated to the noble Lord, Lord Campbell of Pittenweem, suitable IT platforms exist across government but it is within the rules to remove documents from the building in certain limited circumstances. However, very strict rules and procedures govern their removal. How the breach occurred is a matter for the investigating team to determine.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, in the aftermath of the discovery of the papers, the BBC—as the Minister noted—rightly protected operational matters that might have put servicepeople at risk. Its reporting focused on the debate around the decision to send HMS “Defender” on that route. Does the Minister agree that that is a reflection of public interest—in the most genuine sense of the term—in the route decision, which was apparently a subject of disagreement between the two departments concerned? Is it not the case that, while the right of innocent passage may need to have been asserted, the UK might not have been the right country and this might not have been the right way to do it?

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

Again, I have said that I am not going to comment on the content of the documents, but in so far as matters relating to HMS “Defender” are in the public domain, I will simply repeat to the noble Baroness that HMS “Defender” was acting in accordance with international law and that it was entirely appropriate and legal for the Royal Navy to sail this route; it is an internationally recognised shipping route. Importantly, it is the most direct route from Odessa to Batumi in Georgia. The United Kingdom does not recognise any Russian claim to these waters. The noble Baroness will be aware that, in the Black Sea at that time, there was not only a UK naval presence; allies were present as well.

Defence: Continuous At-sea Deterrence

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle

Wednesday 23rd June 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

As the noble Lord will be aware, we are conscious of the obligations of seeing through the transition from the existing class of nuclear-armed submarines to the new Dreadnought class. That Dreadnought submarine programme remains on track to enter service in the early 2030s. There will be no compromise to the UK’s continuous at-sea deterrent. On the specific points he raises, he will understand I am unable to release specific information about supply, support and logistics. But we are satisfied that our continuous at-sea deterrent is operating effectively now and discharging all its tasks and, in the transition and beyond, will continue to do that.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, arms control experts have, for years, been advocating that the P5 states—the legally recognised nuclear powers, which include the UK—reaffirm the statement made by Gorbachev and Reagan in 1985 that

“a nuclear war cannot be won and must never be fought.”

I am sure the Minister is aware that just last week, the current US and Russian Presidents issued that very statement. Will the UK endorse and repeat that statement?

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

The noble Baroness raises an important point. Most of us in this Chamber can recall the conviction of President Ronald Reagan and General Secretary Mikhail Gorbachev that a nuclear war cannot be won and can recall the contribution that statement made to stability at that time. The avoidance of war between nuclear weapons states and the reduction of nuclear risk is one of our foremost responsibilities. We welcome the US and Russia’s joint statement on 16 June and their commitment to a bilateral strategic stability dialogue. We regard this as a serious signal of intent to reduce the risk of nuclear conflict and enhance mutual trust and security by the two countries, which hold almost 90% of the world’s nuclear weapons.

Carrier Strike Group Deployment

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle

Wednesday 28th April 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I reassure the noble Lord that we are satisfied that we will have sufficient maritime capability to deal with all the obligations that fall on us to keep the country safe and discharge our defence responsibilities.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP) [V]]

My Lords, I frame my question in the context of the integrated review of security, defence, development and foreign policy, which places supporting human rights, the rule of law and the COP climate process at the centre of our approach to security.

The Statement is glowing about our Five Power Defence Arrangements with Malaysia, Singapore, Australia and New Zealand, which is described as being based on

“common shared values of tolerance, justice and the rules-based order.”

I ask the Minister how that squares with the failure to make progress on the rule of law and democracy in Malaysia, including its use of the Communications and Multimedia Act to target human rights offenders, activists and cartoonists; the delivery of a death penalty sentence for drugs offences by Zoom, in Singapore last year, and the pursuit of political bloggers with swingeing defamation suits there; and the disastrous record of Australia on climate action and biodiversity destruction, plus the damning judgment of the UN special rapporteur on the rights of indigenous peoples on its treatment of indigenous people.

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

The noble Baroness encapsulates the relevance, significance and purpose of the carrier strike group. The difficulties to which she refers can be unilaterally addressed by the United Kingdom on the diplomatic front. We engage with Malaysia, and we articulate concerns when we feel that matters need to be brought to the attention of any Government. I underline that the carrier strike group is about standing up for the values that we all cherish within the United Kingdom—values we know are shared by our friends and allies, not least in the Indo-Pacific area. One of the best manifestations and indications of support that we can give is to get the carrier strike group out there, with the momentum it will generate and its capacity to excite, encourage and make our friends and allies realise that, together, there is so much that we can do that is positive and can assist. The common difficulties to which she refers are part of that, and will have a better chance of being resolved if we all work as a team to address them.