King’s Speech
Baroness Goldie Excerpts(1 month ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Baroness Goldie (Con)
My Lords, it is a privilege and an unexpected pleasure to find myself at the Dispatch Box opening this debate for His Majesty’s loyal Opposition in this House. Just when I thought I might acquire a cat, grow roses and take up knitting, it seems that my noble friend the Opposition Chief Whip had other ideas. My noble friend Lord Minto is unavailable today—hence this cameo appearance.
I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, and the noble Baroness, Lady Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent, on their ministerial appointments and warmly welcome them to the Government Front Bench. I wish them both well. When I was a Defence Minister, I greatly respected the noble Lord; he is a man of principle and integrity who believes passionately in our defence and security. I found him constructive and pragmatic. In opposition, I and my colleagues will seek to emulate that good example.
I also pay tribute to former Defence Secretaries of State Ben Wallace and Grant Shapps. Ben was a fearless advocate for the MoD and its people, military and civilian, and he won admiration across the political spectrum for his leadership, which Grant Shapps prosecuted with energy. With the MoD working in tandem with my noble friends Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton, the former Foreign Secretary, and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon—he is sitting behind me—as Minister of State at the FCDO, two hugely respected global politicians, it constituted a very impressive defence and diplomatic presence on the global stage for the United Kingdom. It paid dividends and I thank them. In restaurant parlance, that deals with the amuse-bouche. Let me now get into the menu.
There has been a change of Government, but the complexity and intensity of the threats we face remain the same. Looking at the starters, I hope that the Government will still find some relevance in the integrated review and the integrated review refresh. Of course, the Government, under Britain Reconnected, may want to place their own emphasis on aspects of the IR, but I suggest that tearing it up would be unwise. I also gently suggest, in relation to defence and foreign affairs, Britain is already very well connected, and the Ministers to whom I referred were some of the prime connectors.
We led the charge to support Ukraine in defending herself against President Putin’s illegal invasion. We worked tirelessly with international partners to maximise the flow of humanitarian aid into Gaza, while supporting negotiations to secure the release of the Israeli hostages. Having listened to the Minister, I give all encouragement to the Government’s advocacy and interventions to try to improve that desperately worrying situation. We produced a groundbreaking White Paper on international development, which drew in the support of all political parties, to tackle global poverty. We have been a pivotal supporter of NATO. We have responded to the tensions and threat to maritime passage in the Red Sea, and we have made the Indo-Pacific tilt a reality with combined diplomatic and defence activity. That is all existing, rock-solid connection, and these Benches will support all endeavours by the new Government to maintain and build on that global connection. The Government are right to recognise the importance of these connections. It is nurturing these relationships that gives us influence.
Having dealt with the starters, let us now look at the rest of the menu. In foreign affairs, the Labour manifesto seeks to reset the UK-EU relationship. Within the important constraints of UK sovereignty, I think there is scope to develop new opportunities with the EU. The caveat must be to guard against being drawn into arrangements which, if they do not deliver, prove very sticky when we try to extricate ourselves. Pragmatism and a weather-eye should be the watchwords. They are dishes with a tasty potential, but they could turn indigestible.
The new Government’s aspirations—to tackle corruption and money laundering, be fully committed to AUKUS, conduct an audit of the UK-China relationship and protect the overseas territories’ and Crown dependencies’ sovereignty—all deserve support. That is solid fare, but these dishes need to be kept bubbling in the cooker, and we on these Benches will be checking the temperature.
Much more problematic are the various ambitions under the manifesto commitments of championing UK prosperity, climate leadership, strengthening diplomacy and modernising international development. We are into à la carte territory here. The dishes sound exotic, perhaps invitingly tasty, but without knowing the ingredients, they are just a culinary wish list, not dishes ready to serve. We will need much more detail. In that quest, can the Minister tell us, when he winds up, whether the previous Government’s White Paper on international development will contribute to the new Government’s objectives? On climate leadership, will the Government explain what a “clean power alliance” is? Who is to be in it, and for what purpose? When will it deliver whatever it is meant to deliver?
I now turn to defence. This is where the menu is certainly à la carte—indeed, some of the dishes may be unknown even to the chef. As to the effect on the digestive system, let me explore. My starting point is the Government’s recognition in their manifesto that the first duty of any Government is to keep the country safe. I wholeheartedly agree. However, from the primary obligation, onerous and inescapable consequences follow. I welcome the Government’s steadfast commitment to continue supporting Ukraine, their unshakeable commitment to NATO, their absolute commitment to our nuclear deterrent, their explicit commitment to AUKUS and the very welcome clarification and confirmation from the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, in this House on Tuesday, that the Global Combat Air Programme will proceed. On that last matter, given the comments made earlier in the House at Oral Questions, can we nail this down? Is the relative statutory instrument coming before the House next week? This is a rich and sumptuous fare, and these Benches will support all of it.
A stand-alone item on the menu is the strategic defence review. I accept that any incoming Government will want to stocktake. The appointment of the noble Lord, Lord Robertson of Port Ellen, whom I am pleased to see in his place, is reassuring. He is hugely respected, and his authority and expertise will bring substance to the review. However, even before he begins his work, he finds smoke pouring out of the kitchen. His boundary for the review is
“within the trajectory to 2.5%”—
I presume that is a reference to GDP, although the terms of reference do not actually say that. A trajectory normally means the most direct route from point A to point B. At the moment, there is no point A. If there is no point A, where is point B to be found? This is, frankly, farcical. The Government now need to commit to a start point for spending 2.5% of GDP on defence. If that really is the first duty of this Government, as their manifesto proclaims, they need to put their money where their mouth is.
I am sorry to be so blunt, but this clarity is so important and so critical to our global credibility, not least within NATO, that it must be addressed now. At least then the noble Lord, Lord Robertson, will have a clearer view of the kitchen. Will the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, in responding to this debate, if he cannot provide a specific road map to 2.5%, at least acknowledge the cogency of the concerns that I am articulating, which are to be found not only in this Chamber but more broadly? Even with that clarity of 2.5%, the budget will be severely stretched to combat the rising threats that the manifesto identifies. Quite simply, if the Government will not provide that clarity, we are right off the menu and reaching for bottles of Gaviscon.
Your Lordships will be relieved to hear that we have arrived at the desserts. To finish on an optimistic note, I have included some dishes of my own. I referred earlier to the Indo-Pacific tilt. The manifesto was silent on this, apart from an audit of the UK-China relationship, and I do not recall it featuring in the King’s gracious Speech. However, I was very relieved to learn that, in a recent briefing to the media, the noble Lord, Lord Robertson of Port Ellen, certainly identified what he described as a “deadly quartet of nations”—China, Iran, Russia and North Korea—from which I infer and assume the Indo-Pacific region will be covered in the SDR.
When I was a Defence Minister, one of the most productive parts of the job was increasingly working in tandem with my noble friend Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon, my counterpart in the FCDO. The FCDO and the MoD can collaborate to great mutual benefit, and that closer relationship is a way forward. My queen of puddings is that the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, and his noble friend Lord Collins of Highbury, who is also a highly respected Member of this House, will push forward that collaboration. Within the MoD, I found my most effective work abroad was born out of excellent defence attachés working closely with their FCDO counterparts in the host countries. My crêpes Suzette is that the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, should be given the same opportunities that I received and that he will fight the corner of the defence attachés.
In relation to defence and foreign affairs, there is much which unites the Government and these Benches. The Minister referred to common sense and humanity—I agree, and I would add “expediency”. The Pole Star of these Benches will always be the national interest: where we have questions, we shall ask them; where we have concerns, we shall raise them; if we have criticisms, we shall make them, but we shall do so always to support and protect the national interest. And if we can provide constructive help to the Government, we shall willingly give it.
Ministry of Defence: Expenditure
Baroness Goldie Excerpts(1 month ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Baroness Goldie
To ask His Majesty’s Government whether they have made any decisions to pause expenditure on Ministry of Defence programmes; and, if so, on which programmes.
The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Coaker) (Lab)
Work continues on our programmes within existing allocated funding as the strategic review progresses. This review will consider the threats Britain faces, the capabilities needed to meet them, the state of the UK Armed Forces and the resources available. It will set out a deliverable and affordable plan for defence.
Baroness Goldie (Con)
I thank the Minister and congratulate him on his appointment, and welcome him to the Front Bench. My Question was predicated on an already stretched defence budget and government opaqueness about the future. The commitment to spend 2.5% of GDP is very welcome, but we do not know when—it is jam for an uncertain tomorrow. The Leader of the House, the noble Baroness, Lady Smith of Basildon, said to this Chamber on Tuesday evening, referring to the strategic defence review, expected to report early next year, that it
“will inform how the amount is reached”.—[Official Report, 23/7/24; col. 424.]
The noble Lord, Lord Robertson, is deserving of much admiration, but his expertise is defence, not macroeconomics and certainly not Treasury fiscal wizardry. This is the Government’s most important responsibility; we have to stop pussyfooting around. How can there be any informed strategic defence review when the chief reviewer has not been told what the budget he is working on is?
Lord Coaker (Lab)
I thank the noble Baroness for her welcome to the post; it is an honour to follow her, as well as the noble Earl, Lord Minto. We have made a clear commitment to 2.5%, and the timetable for that will be announced at a future fiscal event. Alongside that, as the noble Baroness will know, the noble Lord, Lord Robertson, is conducting the review. As we think is important, the noble Lord will come forward with the capabilities needed to meet the threats of the future, and then we will know what we should be spending the money on, rather than just flying blind, without any idea as to the threats we will face and the capabilities needed to meet them.
Military Bases: Accommodation
Baroness Goldie Excerpts(3 months, 1 week ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
The Earl of Minto (Con)
My Lords, the noble and gallant Lord raises a very good point. The DIO has a relationship with Pinnacle, which is effectively the customer service interface with the Armed Forces. It then passes that work on to Amey and VIVO to undertake it. The process has got much slicker; the response time has got much, much better. As I say, we are not where we need to be, but we are moving in the right direction.
Baroness Goldie (Con)
My Lords, one of the recommendations of the Kerslake commission report, which is very exhaustive, was that the MoD should commission an external independent survey of the Defence Infrastructure Organisation. My recollection is that the DIO did not lack information; what it was endeavouring to do was cultivate a much more muscular relationship with contractors. How is that progressing?
The Earl of Minto (Con)
My Lords, my noble friend is absolutely right. The DIO has all the information that it needs. This is about the implementation and requirement, through Pinnacle to the contractors, to ensure that they respond quite rightly to the issues raised by individual and family members of our Armed Forces.
Nuclear Test Veterans: Support
Baroness Goldie Excerpts(3 months, 3 weeks ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
The Earl of Minto (Con)
Yes, my Lords, I agree with that. It has been widely recognised. A lot of the data that is held is extremely historic and, at times, what the issue really is can get blurred. As I have indicated in previous Written Answers on this subject, my right honourable friend the Minister for Defence People and Families visited the Atomic Weapons Establishment in March to personally review these 150 documents that are being referred to and which allegedly relate to test veterans. He is committed to update the other place in due course—actually, in pretty short order. I do not wish to pre-empt that Statement.
Baroness Goldie (Con)
My Lords, the decision to award a Nuclear Test Medal is very welcome. The MoD endeavoured last year in advance of Remembrance Day to issue as many of these medals as possible. How many of these medals have now been issued?
The Earl of Minto (Con)
My Lords, I can. Just over 22,000 individuals come into scope. We have received 4,800 applications. Of those, 4,400 have been approved. An assessment is going on because of some of the complications I mentioned earlier. As of today, we have dispatched 4,345—2,569 to veterans and 1,776 to next of kin. Before Remembrance Day, which noble Lords may remember was one of the issues last year, we succeeded in dispatching 1,220. Priorities since then have been for the over-90s and those with a terminal disease.
UK Armed Forces in Middle East
Baroness Goldie Excerpts(3 months, 3 weeks ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
The Earl of Minto (Con)
My Lords, I could not pay greater tribute to our forces out there, whether on “Diamond”, “Lancaster” or “Cardigan Bay”. They are all providing absolutely critical support to an extremely important initiative.
Baroness Goldie (Con)
My Lords, we should applaud the role of the RAF, with the recent contribution it made in the interception of Iranian drones launched against Israel. I ask my noble friend the Minister: was that under Operation Shader? If so, is the role of Shader now being expanded?
The Earl of Minto (Con)
I thank my noble friend for that question. It was indeed under Operation Shader, which has been in place since 2014. In fact, I answered a question about this the other day. The RAF has flown nearly 9,000 missions under Operation Shader and released more than 4,000 precision weapons, which gives noble Lords an idea of the scale and importance of ensuring that Daesh in Iraq and Syria is ultimately destroyed. There is no intention to increase the scope of that operation, but back in April it was the appropriate asset to use for that particular sortie.
Royal Navy: Aircraft Carriers
Baroness Goldie Excerpts(6 months, 2 weeks ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
The Earl of Minto (Con)
I thank the noble Lord, and I concur that the Royal Navy has worked extremely fast to be able to move the “Prince of Wales” out in place of the “Queen Elizabeth” after only eight days—it is a remarkable feat, and we should be grateful to them all. As far as her propellor shaft problem, my understanding is that it is ongoing and subject to continued negotiations.
Baroness Goldie (Con)
My Lords, nobody knows better than me how much the noble Lord, Lord West, enjoys his little bit of impish mischief when discussing Royal Naval assets. I say to the Minister that, while technical malfunctions are, of course, regrettable—and I am pleased to hear that the “Prince of Wales” has now sailed—it must be acknowledged that both aircraft carriers have made significant contributions to our naval capability. They have been a huge credit to us across the globe, and that is an important part not just of our RN operational capability but of our global soft power.
Ministry of Defence: Equipment Plan
Baroness Goldie Excerpts(8 months, 3 weeks ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
The Earl of Minto (Con)
My Lords, I do not buy that the plan is unfundable and unworkable. There is significant flexibility within the figures and large contingencies to allow the flexibility of the correct platforms to be developed over the period of time to meet the defence needs for the state.
Baroness Goldie (Con)
My Lords, does my noble friend the Minister agree that it is wrong to look at the defence equipment plan as some kind of rigid, unchangeable proposition, for the very reason he has just indicated? We have to have headroom, which is necessary to allow for flexibility, pursuant to the defence Command Paper refresh, but also because of emerging technologies and our constant journey with artificial intelligence. It is important for everyone to remember that inherent flexibility is actually a strength.
The Earl of Minto (Con)
My Lords, it is a great honour to answer a question from my predecessor. She is absolutely right: we are looking at a 10-year timeframe and only 25% of expenditure is committed. We have a contingency budget in there of more than £4 billion.
War in Ukraine
Baroness Goldie Excerpts(10 months ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Noble Lords
The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Baroness Goldie) (Con)
The sentiment and reaction of the Chamber will reaffirm to the noble Lord how much his expressions of support are appreciated. It is important not just for this Chamber and Parliament as a whole but for the message it sends to the wider world, not least to Mr Putin.
I assure the noble Lord that there is evidence that the counteroffensive is having a very significant impact. It inflicts chronic pressure on Russia deep beyond the front lines. We know that the Russian defence industry is severely stretched and unable to access western components to produce sufficient equipment. Russia now desperately searches for foreign armaments and has had to resort to mobilising Soviet-era tanks.
If we in the United Kingdom are united in our resolve to maintain our support for Ukraine and to continue doing everything we can, whether individually or in concert with friends and allies to deliver that support, it is worth noting that in Ukraine itself there is no war fatigue. Polling in Ukraine shows huge positivity about its future, which is to be commended. Once again, the courage of the people in Ukraine is admirable and deserving of our respect and commendation.
On the matter of replenishment, as the noble Lord will be aware, the Government are engaged on their own replenishment mission with industry. The UK’s position is not unique in NATO with regard to industrial capacity and stockpile replenishment. The UK is driving thinking on solutions to this issue. We will continue to work with international partners and deepen engagement with industry through meetings with the NATO armaments director, the Ukraine Defense Contact Group and the NATO Industry Advisory Group.
Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)
My Lords, as the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, pointed out, eyes are all turned towards Israel and Gaza at the moment. What assessment have His Majesty’s Government made about the impact that that is having on President Putin and whether he is taking an opportunity to engage further in Ukraine while we look to Israel and Gaza? Beyond that, the House was told last night by the noble Lord, Lord Ahmad, that there has been a British deployment of support to the eastern Mediterranean of two Royal Naval ships, RAF surveillance aircraft and a company of Royal Marines—and we have bolstered forces in Cyprus and across the region. All that is in many ways welcome, but can the Minister explain what assessment is being made in the MoD about our own resilience to make sure that we can continue to support the training of troops in Ukraine as well as in the eastern Mediterranean, because both those fronts are vital?
Baroness Goldie (Con)
The noble Baroness is absolutely right to indicate that there is nothing that Mr Putin would like better than to imagine that everybody is distracted by another dangerous conflict and that somehow or other he is off the radar screen. For the United Kingdom and our allies, the tragic situation with Israel and the Gaza Strip and the situation in Ukraine continue to be deeply worrying conflicts. We will do our level best, as we have indicated, to provide support where we can. The noble Baroness designated the support that we have indicated we can make available in the eastern Mediterranean. I can confirm to her that that is not impugning our resilience on other fronts. As she will understand, the support that we are offering to Ukraine is somewhat different in character, but we are able and absolutely committed to continue doing that. I hope that there will be opportunities to update the House in forthcoming months as to exactly how that support will continue.
Baroness Fall (Con)
My Lords, we witnessed Putin in China last weekend, a guest of honour at the Chinese celebrations to mark the 10th anniversary of the belt and road initiative. He noted that they had common threads bringing together Russia and China and, as we know, China has offered economic and diplomatic support to Russia the whole way through. Neither state has condemned the atrocities that we have seen by Hamas on Israel. Are we witnessing a growing coalition of authoritarian states, including Iran and North Korea? What is His Majesty’s Government’s response, especially with regard to the future of Ukraine?
Baroness Goldie (Con)
As my noble friend will be aware, the combination of the two integrated reviews, not least the integrated review refresh of this year, demonstrated His Majesty’s Government’s analysis of what we consider the challenge position to be globally. That reaffirmed that our primary objective is Euro-Atlantic security but of course Euro-Atlantic security is, frankly, indivisible from Indo-Pacific security. Therefore, we are active on all fronts to use all the measures available to us to support friends and allies who believe in the same values that we believe in. That includes calling out activity that we find unacceptable. For example, we have called out China’s activity in the South China seas and called out the deeply concerning situation in Xinjiang with regard to the treatment of Uighurs. In the United Nations, we regularly call out the activities of the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea.
I reassure my noble friend that, across a whole range of fronts, we are very clear about what we need to do to stand up for rights, values and democratic freedoms. Encouragingly, we do not do that alone—we do it in concert with very important friends and allies.
Lord Craig of Radley (CB)
My Lords, UK defence spending needs long-term clarity. What assessment have His Majesty’s Government made of the cost of current levels of support for Ukraine over the next two years and its impact on provision for UK defence over a similar period?
Baroness Goldie (Con)
I have been able to indicate to the Chamber, and reiterate it to the noble and gallant Lord, that we are satisfied that we have the resource not only to attend to our indigenous domestic security and defence needs but to continue affording the help that we have been affording to Ukraine, for example. The noble and gallant Lord will be aware of figures that have been settled for last year and this year in respect of that aid. I do not want to pre-empt the Autumn Statement—it would be quite wrong to do that—but I reassure him that the Prime Minister, the Chancellor, the past Secretary of State for Defence and the current Secretary of State for Defence are absolutely aligned on wanting to continue our support of Ukraine.
Lord Berkeley of Knighton (CB)
My Lords, there has obviously been great emphasis on support for Ukraine in terms of arms, but is the Minister aware— I am sure she is—that one of the things it most badly needs is medical supplies? This, of course, can save a lot of lives; indeed, probably on both sides. It is something that I feel the Government could manage rather more easily than many of the other demands that are made of them.
Baroness Goldie (Con)
It is an important area, and we have been able to provide significant help with medical support. That has included supply of equipment and goods that are assisting Ukraine in defence of its country. We are also, within the UK, helping to treat some wounded members of the Ukrainian armed forces. We have expert medical facilities available within the MoD medical services and there are other ways that we are investigating, along with allies, how we can continue to provide that essential area of support.
Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)
My Lords, following on the humanitarian theme, the Minister may be aware of a documentary airing on ITV this week, “Ukraine’s Stolen Children”, about the very large number of children that have been kidnapped, deceived and dragged into Russia and not returned except after the most difficult struggle. Can the noble Baroness assure me that the British Government are doing everything they can to help the families who are trying to recover their children and to document what is happening for potential future prosecutions—in essence, doing everything they can to assist families in this terrible situation?
Baroness Goldie (Con)
The noble Baroness raises a very important issue that will strike at the cords of the hearts of us all. I can reassure her that the United Kingdom Government have been assisting the International Criminal Court with resource, advice and support. We have also been assisting Ukraine with its internal domestic legal system. She is quite correct: what has been happening in respect of these children is utterly appalling and repugnant. We will do anything we can within the limited scope we have—limited because those children are now in some other state’s jurisdiction. She is right, it is appalling, and we will continue to do whatever we can to help Ukraine resolve these matters.
Intelligence and Security Committee of Parliament: China Report
Baroness Goldie Excerpts(10 months ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Lord West of Spithead
To ask His Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the report by the Intelligence and Security Committee of Parliament China, published on 13 July; and what steps they took to ensure that their response is consistent with their plan to tilt some UK military capability to the Indo-Pacific region, as set out in the Integrated Review and the Integrated Review Refresh 2023.
The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Baroness Goldie) (Con)
My Lords, His Majesty’s Government have taken a proactive approach in assessing the risks identified in the ISC report and are already addressing a number of the issues raised. Our commitment to the Indo-Pacific region was reaffirmed in the integrated review refresh with continued deployment of HMS “Spey” and HMS “Tamar”, and our maritime presence is set to be bolstered with the deployment of a littoral response group and a carrier strike group in 2025.
Lord West of Spithead (Lab)
I thank the Minister for her Answer and congratulate the Government on sticking to their guns on this tilt to the Indo-Pac region. Geopolitically, it makes absolute sense for security—both globally and for the wealth of our nation. However, the most important geostrategic base in the Indian Ocean for the Americans and for us is Diego Garcia. With all the threats to our geostrategic position in that region, why are we now conducting negotiations with Mauritius, which has an ill-defined basis for saying that the island belongs to it and has 43 agreements with the Chinese perhaps to give Diego Garcia back to it? Mauritius never owned it.
Baroness Goldie (Con)
As the noble Lord will be aware, our relationships with key partners provide us with platforms across a number of areas in the Indo-Pacific. We have a permanent presence in Brunei, and the British Defence Singapore Support Unit. He is correct that the United Kingdom and the United States share a defence facility in the British Indian Ocean Territory. That plays a vital role in our efforts to keep the region secure. We are very clear about its strategic significance and continue to have due regard to the significance of that location.
Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)
My Lords, the Question mentions the two integrated reviews. The first, in 2021, was a very good and helpful document but unfortunately came out before the Russian assault on Ukraine. The second, refreshing the first, was also excellent but unfortunately came out before the present Israel-Hamas horror and the complete change to the map of the Middle East. Can the Minister encourage the Cabinet Office not to be deterred from having a go at a third one, maybe in the early spring of next year, because these documents are genuinely valuable in showing our purpose and direction in a very fast-changing world?
Baroness Goldie (Con)
I thank my noble friend for his recognition of the strategic significance of these documents and the enduring messages which both contain and which continue to suggest a pungent relevance to events in the world today. The issues to which he refers are deeply troubling and complex. As to whether the Government would contemplate a further integrated review, I cannot say, but I acknowledge his concern at the extent of global tumult that we are witnessing today.
Baroness Whitaker (Lab)
My Lords, the Government of Mauritius have gone on record as saying that they will not interfere with the American use of the Diego Garcia base and that they have no intention to alter its status. I ought to declare an interest as a vice-chair of the all-party group on the Chagos Islands.
Baroness Goldie (Con)
My Lords, the noble Baroness is very much better informed than I am but as I indicated to the noble Lord, Lord West, that location is of strategic significance to both the United Kingdom and the United States and we continue to do whatever we can to preserve that strategic presence.
Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)
My Lords, can the Minister say whether, in relation to the Chagos Islands, the Government are giving any consideration to a solution which would involve Diego Garcia becoming a sovereign base area of the United Kingdom while the rest of the Chagos Islands is returned to Mauritius?
Baroness Goldie (Con)
These details are somewhat beyond my field of knowledge. This principally rests with the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office but I shall certainly make inquiries. If I elicit any information I shall write to the noble Lord.
Lord Alderdice (LD)
My Lords, I declare my interest as director of the Changing Character of War Centre at Oxford University. This substantial report rightly focuses on defending our country and our people from the political, economic and military threats in our relationship with China. However, there is an impression of an almost ineluctable trajectory towards war on the model of the so-called Thucydides trap. What are His Majesty’s Government doing to ensure that competition, rivalry and challenge, which are all entirely reasonable, do not slide into war with China? Is there an equivalent Indo-Pacific tilt in diplomatic resources and in our thinking about how we share the world with China?
Baroness Goldie (Con)
In relation to China, the integrated review and the integrated review refresh represented a comprehensive approach across three interrelated pillars—protect, align and engage. The noble Lord will be aware that under these pillars there is significant, tangible evidence of how they are being implemented. To reassure him, I say that I have just returned from the Philippines and the Republic of Korea, where I was attending, among other things, the Seoul Defense Dialogue, one of the most significant defence fora in the region. There is an absolutely united desire that those who believe in the same values stand up together and learn more about each other. The warmth of reception that I received indicated that the United Kingdom is a very welcome presence in that region, as we endeavour to play our part in standing up for these values with friends and partners.
Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)
I put on record our thanks to my noble friend Lord West for his work on this comprehensive and crucial report. The Government’s response outlined additional funding for capabilities that respond to the systemic challenges posed by China. Given the concerns highlighted in the ISC report about the lack of integration of Defence Intelligence into the wider intelligence framework, can the Minister confirm that DI will receive the additional resource pledged?
Baroness Goldie (Con)
For understandable reasons, in the MoD we regard Defence Intelligence as a pivotal part of our operation and defence capability. Quite rightly, it is highly regarded within the UK and globally. It is important that we share these facilities and what we can do with that capability with friends and allies, which we do. Particularly on the noble Baroness’s question, I say that the report indicated a need for us to have regard to what we are doing in this country to augment the infrastructure for engaging with China. She is aware that there has been increased funding, government wide, for a China capabilities programme that embraces Mandarin language training and in-depth diplomatic expertise. A lot of concerted work has been done across the piece.
Lord Stirrup (CB)
My Lords, I was very surprised that the noble Lord, Lord Howell of Guildford, passed up the opportunity to mention the Commonwealth, so I will jump in in his stead. The Commonwealth is strongly represented in many nations, islands and territories throughout the Indo-Pacific region. What strategy do the Government have to strengthen, reinforce and foster this network, and to counter China’s rather obvious attempts to undermine it?
Baroness Goldie (Con)
It is important that we have a coherent approach to the Indo-Pacific, and I strongly suggest that this is exactly what we have. We work bilaterally, minilaterally and multilaterally across a range of fora, with a range of countries in the region, some of which are Commonwealth countries and others which are not. The important thing is that we have a strategic united vision, which was demonstrated when I was at this defence dialogue in Seoul. It was uplifting and encouraging to see a unity of purpose, for everyone to stand together and, by doing that, to recognise the strength that this unanimity represents.
Baroness Lister of Burtersett (Lab)
My Lords, going back to the question of the Chagos Islands, what steps are being taken to ensure that the views of the Chagossians, who were thrown off those islands, are being taken into account in negotiations about the future of the islands?
Baroness Goldie (Con)
I do not have any specific knowledge about that. It is very much a matter for the FCDO but I will make inquiries, as I said to the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, and respond to the noble Baroness.
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)
We heard from the noble Baroness, Lady Swinburne, that the noble Lord, Lord Evans of Rainow, is stuck on a train from Manchester. Unlike him. I have made it here on the train in time for Questions. That is very unusual and exceptional for a Monday, but being here has been instructive. From the complacent and lackadaisical replies we have had on education, the health service and housing—the noble Baroness, Lady Goldie, is the exception, as she actually gave us a decent reply—it is clear that the Government have run out of steam. That is why 75% of the British public want an election now. Will she show the courage that I know she has and say that she agrees with them?
Baroness Goldie (Con)
My Lords, when I receive praise emanating from the noble Lord, I think of Greeks bearing gifts. I have not been present to hear the responses to all the Questions, but my impression is that I am blessed with some exceedingly talented colleagues, who discharge themselves with remarkable aplomb and skill. Lest he gets too excited, I should say that the Government are pursuing an exciting and visionary programme. In preparation for my Question, I was looking at the absolute raft of legislation that has been passed to address the very legitimate concerns of the Intelligence and Security Committee. Directly relevant to those concerns were the National Security Act, a national investment Act, a telecommunications Act and a higher education Act, all about protecting our indigenous UK infrastructure—whether that is essential critical national infrastructure, how our academic communities operate, or how we support the endeavours of the Government with the FCDO and the MoD. Far from running out of steam, this train is rattling along the track in great style.
Armed Forces: Troop Levels
Baroness Goldie Excerpts(11 months, 1 week ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent
To ask His Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of current and expected future troop levels of the UK armed forces in relation to fulfilling their NATO obligations.
The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Baroness Goldie) (Con)
My Lords, defence is committed to remaining a leading contributor to NATO. Our approach and force development are aligned to NATO’s strategic concept and force requirements. We have committed almost all our Armed Forces to NATO in our strongest ever contribution. We will continue to offer NATO the full spectrum of defence capabilities, including our continuous at-sea nuclear deterrent and our cutting-edge cyber and space capabilities, as well as our conventional Armed Forces.
Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)
My Lords, I refer the House to my interest as an honorary captain of the Royal Navy as set out in the register. I thank the Minister for her Answer, but the Armed Forces’ Pay Review Body states there are currently 40 delivery pinch points: the Army has 12, the naval service has 12, and the RAF reported none, but UK Strategic Command has 16. The situation is even worse when considering sustainability pinch points related to future military objectives. Simply put, we do not have enough of the right people in the right places. Given our enhanced NATO commitment and the current geopolitical outlook in the Indo-Pacific, is the Minister really convinced that our recruitment and retention policies are working?
Baroness Goldie (Con)
I pay tribute to the noble Baroness’s support of the Royal Navy; it is a very welcome contribution. We know anecdotally that the pay increase awarded to the Armed Forces has been very positively received. The noble Baroness referred to recruitment, and I am not denying that it is a challenge: we are living in a very competitive job market. The Armed Forces are conscious of that. We have been reviewing the recruitment campaigns with very recent effect, and the new version of these campaigns is out now or going out imminently. We are also very clear that addressing pay and recruitment in themselves are not enough, and that is why we are looking at how we can better meld the job offer—the overall package to recruit applicants—to reflect better what life is like now in the workplace, hence the Haythornthwaite review, which is a very interesting and positive contribution to what we might be doing. The MoD is embracing its principal recommendations already.
Lord Robathan (Con)
Does my noble friend not understand that one of the problems with serving in the Armed Forces at the moment is a perception that they are in part of a declining industry? This is not a new thing, but we are actually declining the Armed Forces at the moment by shrinking them. This is completely nuts. Does my noble friend consider that perhaps the new Secretary of State may take a look at this and say, “Well, with a war going on in Europe, it may be time to revisit the so-called refresh: we need troops; we need sailors, we need airmen, and we need to get them soon”? If you have a sense that the Armed Forces are going forward, then people will stay because they feel they are doing something worth while.
Baroness Goldie (Con)
With the greatest respect, I slightly disagree with my noble friend and wish to disabuse him of the idea that there is some decline going on; there is not. In fact, the example that the UK has set globally in respect of our support for Ukraine has been universally admired. That is dependent on not just military donations, but also on the NATO support which we are able to provide. As my noble friend will be aware, we are playing our role in these NATO contributions, for example through JEF and EFP—now important both in the Baltic and the Balkans. But our concentration is on whole force, and that is how we have to look at the modern threat and the modern areas of conflict.
Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)
My Lords, the Question on the Order Paper is very much about troop numbers, not the wider defence offer. Could the Minister tell us whether 72,000 regulars really is sufficient? Should we not go back to at least 80,000? What is the whole force offer—is there a commitment to increasing the number of reserves, because we have not really seen that either?
Baroness Goldie (Con)
When I refer to “whole force”, I am referring to the holistic contribution to our capability from our three Armed Forces and all our other ancillary areas of support. I think the mindset now has to be not of the size of any one individual service, because that is not how we are amalgamating and deploying the capability. That is not how we are now aligning with NATO and fitting into the new modernised, transformed NATO. For example, if you take troops in particular, and Future Soldier 2021, we have an Army force of 73,000 regulars and 30,100 reservists. We are satisfied that these, in conjunction with the investments we are making in armed capabilities, deep effects and sub-threshold capabilities, do enable the UK to continue to force generate and modernise an expeditionary land force, for example, as NATO demands.
Lord Sahota (Lab)
My Lords, as has been raised from time to time by various newspapers and by some Sikh historians, given the fact that Sikhs have served diligently in the British Army in both world wars and have proven their loyalty and valour, and given that there is a large Sikh community in the UK, there is talk that the British Army may create a Sikh regiment in the future. Does the Minister know anything about that?
Baroness Goldie (Con)
First, I do pay tribute to the very distinguished contributions that Sikhs have made in our British military history. In relation to the Armed Forces across the piece, we are blessed with—indeed, the Armed Forces are enhanced by—having members from many faith backgrounds. Our objective within MoD is absolutely to deliver proper inclusivity, because what all these representations from different faiths have in common is that they swear allegiance to the monarch and to uphold the safety and security of our country. That is a very strong bond that unites them all. We approach this on a holistic base: we take with pleasure all those who wish to contribute to our Armed Forces’ endeavour and, yes, we are very proud to have contributions from all the faith communities.
Earl Attlee (Con)
My Lords, we know that NATO is modernising its structures. How are we responding to this and updating our own structures?
Baroness Goldie (Con)
My noble friend is quite correct that NATO has been on a journey of modernisation and transformation, and I think it is a very important journey. The combination of the new NATO force model, the defence investment pledge that was agreed at Vilnius and the NATO political guidance for 2023, in which the UK was a leading influence, represent a modernised, more muscular NATO, to which the UK pledges a full spectrum of capabilities. That includes nuclear, offensive cyber, special forces and space capabilities. For example, the UK was the first ally to offer offensive cyber capabilities to NATO.
Lord Reid of Cardowan (Lab)
My Lords, like the men and women of the Armed Forces, the Minister has a great can-do attitude, which I admire. But is it not plain to any observer of events that there is a chronic discord between our foreign policy ambitions and the operational capability of our Armed Forces? We know that we have the smallest Army since the Napoleonic period. We have a tiny fleet. We have a shortage of aircraft, to the extent that we have an aircraft carrier that has only eight planes on it in its operations. Is it not time to have a genuine strategic defence review, in an attempt to bring our ambitions into line with our operational capability? Otherwise, we will just delude ourselves, as well as trying to delude others.
Baroness Goldie (Con)
Well, I am not in the business of delusion, and I hope noble Lords will accept that. I think the integrated review, and then the integrated review refresh, followed by the defence Command Paper refresh, do actually align what our strategic policy objectives in terms of our foreign policy are, and the defence Command Paper refresh begins to fill out how MoD will support these objectives. We actually have two aircraft carriers which are the envy of many other global powers. When we put our F35s on to them, contrary to popular perception, what we put on to the aircraft carriers is the aircraft capability we need for the deployment the carrier is on. I said earlier that the capability in MoD may be just about unrecognisable to many people who were familiar with a different format. But to take the platitude that is often trotted out that we have the smallest Army since Napoleon, well, no wonder—in the time of Napoleon and Wellington, we sent thousands of people to the front line to be slaughtered or injured. Now, with technology, we thankfully do not have to do that. Future Soldier encompasses that very different vision and concept for how a modern military operates.