Defence: 2.5% GDP Spending Commitment

Baroness Goldie Excerpts

Thursday 14th November 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

My Lords, the Prime Minister and the Chancellor’s continuing dithering on when the Government will spend 2.5% of GDP on defence has caused stasis in the MoD, which does not know what it can spend and when, a stagnation of the order book and disgruntled industry partners. What orders are currently being withheld, what is their value and to what extent are other customers overtaking the United Kingdom in the queue for supplies?

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Coaker) (Lab)]

I do not agree with that caricature of what is happening. The Chief Secretary to the Treasury said at the weekend, and it has been repeated since, that we will reach 2.5% at a future fiscal event in the spring. The defence review is looking at what capabilities we need and we will then set that in the context of the 2.5% as we move forward. That sequencing is the proper way for us to go ahead. As it stands, no major projects are being disrupted as a result of the review.

Defence Policy: Deterrence

Baroness Goldie Excerpts

Thursday 31st October 2024 Grand Committee

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend Lord Trefgarne is right to pose his vital Question. It gets to the heart of what a defence capability is, as he, the noble Lord, Lord Harris of Haringey, and the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Stirrup, so clearly described.

On defence capability, it is not enough to want one, it is certainly not enough to talk about one, and there is no point in having one unless it deters. I say to your Lordships that, for me, this all came into sharp relief when Scotland was confronted by the independence referendum in 2014. One of the strongest arguments for staying within the United Kingdom was defence and security, and the attempt by those seeking independence to explain what the defence capability of an independent Scotland would be was risible: no nuclear deterrent, a tiny presence of maritime assets with no strategic purpose, a very small military infantry with negligible assets and a virtually non-existent air capability. As for cyber and space, that was far too far in the future to be worrying about.

The question that such a depleted resource begged was: what is the point of having it? It did not deter, it offered no meaningful contribution to our allies and it was of little interest to NATO. However, this usefully demonstrated that you would actually be better off not having a capability, spending the money on something else and hoping that better-resourced friends would come to your aid if necessary. That is of course not where any of us would want to be and, thankfully, not where the majority of voters in the referendum wanted to be, so independence was rejected.

In fairness to the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, I thought then and still think now that the UK has a strong defence capability. Our continuous at-sea deterrent is at the disposal of NATO, one of only two nuclear powers offering that support. We have invested in the Navy, have modernised equipment for the Army and are actively progressing a successor to Typhoon. Importantly, we have also invested in the new domains of cyber and space. I have to say that I become angry when politicians of whatever stripe diminish that strength, and it is certainly unhelpful for a government Minister to call our capability into question. In fairness to the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, I have never been aware of him doing that.

Underpinning that capability by maintaining investment, demonstrating credibility and ensuring that our deterrent posture is clear requires both vigilance and action by the Government. That is why their attitude to defence, as confirmed by yesterday’s Budget, has got us to a very undesirable position. To talk incessantly about lifting defence expenditure to 2.5% of GDP, to tell everyone in sight that that is your political resolve, to raise a reasonable expectation that you will flesh out the timeline and the trajectory in the Autumn Statement and then to lapse into a deafening silence is deeply damaging on all fronts. By placing a question mark over both the timing and the level of strategic resource for defence, the Government are undermining credibility, and that immediately impacts on our ability to deter. Our allies need to know that they can trust us and that we are solid. Our adversaries need to see that investment and know that we shall not hesitate to deploy our capability when the need arises.

Later today we shall discuss more specifically the 2.5% of GDP in the debate of my noble friend Lord Trenchard, but in my opinion yesterday’s Budget was not good news for defence. It has diminished our stature, impugned our credibility and weakened our deterrence posture. I urge the Minister to use his wisdom and considerable clout to get the Government to review the position.

Defence Spending

Baroness Goldie Excerpts

Thursday 31st October 2024 Grand Committee

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

My Lords, it is clear from the contributions today how informed about and engaged in the defence of our nation your Lordships are. That knowledge was manifest in my noble friend Lord Trenchard’s contribution, and I am grateful to him for bringing this debate before us.

I am not going to patronise noble Lords with a preamble about why defence is the most important obligation of any Government; it is, and we know why. I am going to examine how the current Government are discharging that responsibility.

It all flows from budget—the money—because, quite simply, that is what shapes the capability. Yesterday, after all the repeated rhetoric and reassurances over many months from the Prime Minister downwards that the Government believe in defence, are committed to 2.5% of GDP and will lay out the trajectory to that point, we held our breath and waited. Notably, the Minister for the Armed Forces, Luke Pollard, addressing air and space chiefs at a London conference in July this year, said:

“How we get to 2.5% will be laid out by the Chancellor, Rachel Reeves, at a fiscal event, which is government code for a budget, or an autumn statement. So looking at that, she will be setting up the path to that”.


We are still holding our breath. What did we get? Clarity? No. Leadership? No. Instead, we got a deafening and supine silence. We got a sticking plaster of £2.9 billion for 2025-26. In defence budget terms, we know that that is sticking a finger in the dam and hoping for the best. There is nothing strategic about it, no trajectory to anywhere. While this response says a lot about the Government, and I do not expect the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, to comment on that, I am much more concerned about what it says to our allies, friends and global partners.

We are a respected global power, a perception underwritten by our defence capability. As a Minister, regularly visiting south-east Asia, I saw at first hand how many of these countries value their relationship with the United Kingdom; how carrier strike group 21 had a massive impact in the region and on the stature of the UK in that area; how the legacy of the permanent deployment of HMS “Tamar” and HMS “Spey” through the region had a tangible effect; and how so many of these countries wanted to pursue a closer engagement with the United Kingdom. I know that the Minister has diligently and effectively prosecuted these relationships.

How is the Government’s ambivalence on defence spend likely to play out to our European friends, our NATO allies, our partners and friends across the globe? Well, 2.5%, as my noble friend Lord Trenchard indicated, is the minimum we need to spend to keep up with allies and competitors. The current NATO estimates for 2024 spending put the UK as the third highest spender in NATO, now overtaken by Germany, and we stand at 2.33% of GDP. The difference between 2.33% and 2.5% is significant but not massive, and the previous Government committed to that by 2030. Just to clarify for the benefit of the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, that is the position I supported then and it is the position I support now.

The present Government have been talking about this for months—they have now been in Government for nearly four months—and that is why the failure by the Chancellor yesterday to bring clarity is so serious. The Government are saying to our allies, “We cannot tell you anything about our strategic defence spend and we do not know when we will be able to”. What a message. What about our adversaries? They must be rubbing their hands in glee: this chaos is music to their ears. The only message any onlooker can infer from this mess is that neither the Prime Minister nor his Chancellor get defence. I know that the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, does get defence, and I have sympathy with him. He will put up a stout and loyal response to this debate, but his position is unenviable.

Let me mention the Government’s imposition of VAT on school fees having an immediate and deeply damaging impact on defence families. Approximately 4,000 children of service personnel get the continuity of education allowance, which is to mitigate the disruption to education of regular postings. It does not cover the full fees, and many parents, despite that CEA, will struggle to meet the additional cost created by VAT. All that has been offered is a proportionate increase in the CEA, but it is the balance over and above that that many service families will find unaffordable. I am at a loss to understand how the Chancellor does not get that. It seems an extraordinary insult to our Armed Forces personnel. The Government need to exempt the children of all military personnel from VAT on school fees with immediate effect.

I have the highest regard for the Minister, and I know that defence has a doughty advocate in him, so I exhort him to relay the pungent message that he has heard this afternoon to his colleagues in government.

Decommissioned Nuclear-Powered Submarines

Baroness Goldie Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd October 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

I may need to write to the noble Lord. I usually like to be able to respond directly to questions, but I do not want to get the planning process wrong or give the wrong answer on whether primary or secondary legislation is needed. I will respond to him with a letter to make sure that I am accurate and will place a copy in the Library so that it is available to all noble Lords.

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

My Lords, on 20 May 2021, the Conservative Government published an update on the submarine dismantling project, stating that 90% of the decommissioned submarine materials could be recycled. Is the Minister in a position to confirm that his Government are committed to retaining that target? On the experience of decommissioning HMS “Swiftsure”, which is very well advanced, can he also indicate whether there is any proposal to secure an engineering impact assessment to understand how the process for future submarines might be expedited?

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

I pay tribute to the work that the noble Baroness did to try to speed up some of these processes. She asked two very pertinent questions. For “Swiftsure”, we retained the 90% recycling target. She will know that once a decommissioned submarine such as “Swiftsure” is defueled, there is an initial phase that takes the nuclear material out. Then there is an intermediate phase, which is followed by dry-docking—which is where “Swiftsure” is—for the rest of the submarine to be recycled. We expect 90% of that to be recycled. The whole point of “Swiftsure” is that it acts as a demonstrator project so that we can learn from how that was done—what worked and what perhaps could have been improved—and then apply that to all the other submarines that have been decommissioned.

Armed Forces Act 2006 (Continuation) Order 2024

Baroness Goldie Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd October 2024 Grand Committee

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Coaker) (Lab)]

My Lords, the purpose of this order is to continue in force for another year the legislation that governs the Armed Forces Act 2006. That body of legislation provides the legal framework for our brave service personnel to continue to operate throughout the world wherever they are needed. The act of yearly renewal reflects the constitutional requirement, which stretches back to the Bill of Rights 1689, that His Majesty’s Armed Forces may not be maintained without Parliament’s consent. Further, there is a five-yearly renewal by Act of Parliament, which is the primary purpose of the Armed Forces Acts. The latest Armed Forces Act was in 2021 and the next is required by the end of 2026. 

However, between these Acts there must be an annual renewal by Order in Council. This is the purpose of today’s draft order, which is necessary for the Armed Forces Act 2006, as amended by the Armed Forces Act 2021, to remain in force until the end of 2025. If the Order in Council is not made before the close of 14 December 2024, the 2006 Act will automatically expire, effectively ending the powers and provisions to maintain the Armed Forces as disciplined bodies.

As a reminder to noble Lords—and as many noble and gallant Members of your Lordships’ House will already know—those serving in His Majesty’s Armed Forces do not have contracts of employment and, therefore, have no duties as employees. Instead, service- persons have an obligation as members of the Armed Forces to obey lawful orders as set out in the 2006 Act, which provides nearly all the provisions for the existence of a system for the Armed Forces of command, discipline and justice.

If the Act were not renewed, commanding officers and the court martial would no longer have the power to punish or discipline servicepersons for infractions of the rules, irrespective of how minor or serious the matter might be. Discipline is fundamental to the operational effectiveness and efficiency of any professional military force. It ensures team cohesiveness and effectiveness, efficiency in executing orders and confidence in the chain of command, while encouraging and reinforcing self-discipline. Such qualities have proved vital in underpinning the professionalism and capabilities of our Armed Forces.

I acknowledge that, as of today, we inhabit a world that is more dangerous than at any time since the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991, witnessing as it has the return of great power politics. However, that is not to say that we are less safe. After all, we have seen the growth and strengthening of the Euro-Atlantic alliance, with new and powerful NATO members welcomed into its ranks, while we continue to support, equip and train Ukraine in its fight against Russia, which has witnessed Putin fail in every one of his strategic aims in that country.

In the Middle East, we continue to work closely with allies and partners on aid deliveries to Gaza, supporting the Lebanese army, training the Iraqi security forces and ensuring freedom of navigation. In the Indo-Pacific, we have AUKUS and GCAP working alongside our allies to ensure stability in that region and provide a strong deterrence to would-be aggressors.

No Government can do this without the men and women of our Armed Forces and the civilian staff who support them. We also cannot do it without Armed Forces’ families, who sacrifice so much and move so often to support our national security. We should also remember our veterans. As a Government, we have committed to strengthen the nation’s contract with those who serve, their families and, as I said, veterans, including by putting the Armed Forces covenant fully into law and by appointing an Armed Forces commissioner to be a strong, independent champion for serving personnel and their families.

Therefore, we ask that His Majesty’s Armed Forces receive the full support of this Committee with approval of this draft continuation order. This will provide a sound legal basis for our Armed Forces to continue to afford us their indispensable protection. With that, I beg to move.

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

My Lords—oh, I apologise to the noble Baroness, Lady Smith; I am so eager.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

Yes, there is obviously a certain choreography to this: the smaller opposition Front Bench is allowed to go first.

This time last year—or not quite this time last year, but when we renewed our commitment to the Armed Forces in 2023—we again had a rather small group of Peers speak in the debate. I note this tendency, despite the fact that, in 1688, the Bill of Rights found it so important that Parliament consented to having our Armed Forces that we had to give our consent. Now, we tend to have a very small number of parliamentarians discussing this vital matter and we are tucked away in Grand Committee. One noble Lord referred to this the other day, saying to me, “It’s a cupboard. Nobody takes any notice if we do things in Grand Committee”.

However, we clearly should take notice of the commitment to His Majesty’s Armed Forces that this renewal order gives and which all our Benches wish to support. Each year, we remind ourselves and others of the important role that His Majesty’s Armed Forces play in the security of the realm, which matters to each and every individual. The fact that so few individuals who are not service personnel, in their families or veterans, do not spend very long thinking or talking about His Majesty’s Armed Forces is perhaps a sign of how effective those forces are: we do not have to think daily about our security because the Armed Forces are doing that.

I note that the Explanatory Memorandum quotes the Bill of Rights, saying that

“raising or keeping a standing Army within the Kingdome in time of Peace unlesse it be with Consent of Parlyament is against law”.

Clearly, the United Kingdom is not in a state of war with any other countries but I wonder how we should interpret the idea of being at peace, because there are so many parts of the world where His Majesty’s forces are deployed. When I looked back at the debate we had last year, it turned out to have been 16 months ago. For some reason, the previous Government felt the need to have the 2023 renewal on 15 June 2023. That was in a slightly different context.

We were at that time already supporting Ukraine but the context of the Middle East now, referred to by the Minister in his opening remarks, was somewhat different. It was before the horrific attacks on Israel of 7 October 2023. Since then, the United Kingdom has been involved in the support of Israel, in particular the support of Israel’s Iron Dome. Questions have been raised about our own defence and security, so I will reiterate one of the questions that I raised last year when the noble Baroness, Lady Goldie, was responding at the Dispatch Box. I said that His Majesty’s Armed Forces serve the United Kingdom incredibly well, but asked: do we serve our Armed Forces sufficiently well?

I welcome from these Benches the comments the Minister just made about the commitment to enshrine the Armed Forces covenant in law—I hope it will be made applicable to His Majesty’s Government, rather than just to certain councils and other bodies—and to having an Armed Forces commissioner. But does the Minister feel that we are doing sufficient to support our Armed Forces community, and should we be doing more in this time of heightened security concerns? I realise that his default position will probably be to say that we have a strategic defence review in the offing. Nevertheless, some commitment to ensuring that we have adequate resources for our Armed Forces in terms of their equipment and accommodation, but also service numbers, would be very welcome.

Finally, given that this continuation order is very much about service justice and that just last week we received the first report of the service complaints commissioner, do the Government feel that this new role and service justice are working well? In conclusion, we obviously wish to support the continuation of the Armed Forces and this draft Order in Council.

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

My Lords, I apologise to the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, for my alacrity in wanting to contribute to this debate and for rudely seeking to barge in front of her.

I remember with pleasure having to move this annual order as a Minister. On the one hand, as the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, said, it is entirely process in character, and that perhaps caused some perplexity about what exactly we should be saying. On the other, the effect of the order could not be more important in keeping our Armed Forces legally constituted and, as has been said, compliant with the fundamental provisions of the Bill of Rights 1688.

Relations with Europe

Baroness Goldie Excerpts

Thursday 10th October 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Smith of Newnham, for securing this debate. Our relations with Europe matter very much indeed, as has already been indicated. I have always described myself as a Euro-realist, not a Eurosceptic. This means being pragmatic, not ideological, and certainly not dogmatic—well, no more than my innate bossy disposition directs.

There are obvious and clear benefits to the United Kingdom in having a positive relationship with Europe, with the caveat that we do not enter into any arrangement that compromises our sovereignty. That stance is neither remarkable nor objectionable. It is particularly relevant where defence is concerned. We should seek strong bilateral relationships with individual European states—we have many of these already—and we should seek an engaged but vigilant approach to the EU.

My party has a solid record on this approach. Under a Conservative Government, the UK entered into defence partnerships with Italy, in the form of the GCAP programme, and with France in the Lancaster House treaties. In 2014, we led the establishment of the Joint Expeditionary Force, a defence partnership between the UK and several other EU and EEA member states.

The UK has been one of the most steadfast supporters of Ukraine, and on this we have closely co-operated with the EU very constructively. Russia’s brazen attack on a sovereign European neighbour united us around a common cause and spurred joint action. We have worked closely with the EU on sanctions, co-ordinating the provision of lethal support and advising on military training.

Along with the UK’s continuing role as a leader of NATO, such partnerships and organisations provide a crucial forum for co-operation and engagement on defence and security matters. Co-operation and engagement are the watchwords. This is precisely the point. The unity implicit within co-operation should not be conflated with uniformity, and engagement should not be conflated with a template of homogenous response—in other words, “It is this way or no way”. It is of the utmost importance that any interactions we have with our partners, with Europe and with the EU, must carefully take account of the future operational independence of UK defence. That is sacrosanct.

The Government propose a UK-EU security pact, and the Defence Secretary has spoken of negotiating a “bespoke relationship” that may see the UK joining as a third-party participant in the EU’s common security and defence policy. If this proposed security pact risks tying the UK into restrictive arrangements which compromise our operational defence independence or our sovereign national security decision-making, it should be rejected.

Under the current arrangements, we have been able to work alongside our European and EU partners in a highly effective manner. Why seek to fix something which clearly is not broken? Why court risk? I hope that, going forward, the Government will continue our legacy of defence engagement and leadership, but, in seeking a closer relationship with Europe and the EU, I counsel caution. There are opportunities that can be responsibly and productively pursued, but there are also areas of clear risk, which I would advise the Government to avoid.

Combat Air Capability

Baroness Goldie Excerpts

Thursday 10th October 2024 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Baroness Goldie]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the United Kingdom’s future combat air capability.

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Coaker) (Lab)]

My Lords, our assessment of the future combat air capability we require is informed by consideration of the future threat environment and strategic context. Consequently, the Global Combat Air Programme has been designed to utilise advanced capabilities, including next-generation sensors, weapons and data systems. Networked interoperability with allies and partners will be key. In the meantime, we continue to invest in our current fleet, which remains highly capable.

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord for that part-reassurance. The previous Government’s commitment to the Global Combat Air Programme—GCAP—was clear and we were doing it in partnership with Italy and Japan. However, with the best of intentions, the current Government’s position is opaque. Can the noble Lord at least reassure the House that the Government understand the need to plan now for a successor to Typhoon and the extent to which UK industry is supporting thousands of jobs across the UK—not least, for example, at Leonardo in Edinburgh—that depend on this programme proceeding?

Strategic Defence Review

Baroness Goldie Excerpts

Wednesday 9th October 2024 Grand Committee

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

My Lords, I too thank the noble Lord, Lord Robertson of Port Ellen, for facilitating this debate. I know he is committed to a viable, lethal and effective defence capability to protect the UK and to contribute to global security. Equally, I am in no doubt that he wishes to benefit from a full spectrum of opinion to inform his review. With the experience in your Lordships’ House on defence issues across all Benches so impressively evident this afternoon, I hope this debate will be regarded as an authoritative source of ideas and suggestions: many excellent ones have been advanced. I echo the important point from the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, about the extent, within this House, of consensus on defence matters.

My honourable colleague James Cartlidge, on behalf of the Official Opposition, has responded to the SDR in a manner which I hope the noble Lord has found constructive and helpful. I do not propose to read out that response ad longum, but rather to shape a perspective around it to explain why my party has focused on the particular issues which we have identified. For those interested, the response can be found online and I shall provide Hansard with the link.

My starting point is defence spend. Whatever the back office number crunchers may think, defence spend is not some financial fair-weather option, where you spend when you can and deliver biting financial cuts when you cannot. A defence capability of the magnitude of the United Kingdom’s requires core funding to ensure both maintenance of that capability and an ability to plan strategically. If the Government cannot guarantee that, they might as well walk away from having any meaningful capability at all. It will not have escaped the attention of the noble Lord, Lord Robertson, that resource has been a recurring feature of this afternoon’s debate, notably and powerfully from the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Stirrup, and my noble friend Lord Trenchard.

The previous Government set out a clear and fully funded pathway to reach 2.5% of GDP on defence by 2030. This Government have said repeatedly that they are committed to 2.5%, but not when. So why am I and so many others concerned? There has been an implied understanding that we could anticipate clarification of the “when” in the imminent Budget Statement. Regrettably, just this week, the Prime Minister has created a new doubt. In response to a question from my right honourable friend the leader of the Opposition in the other place, who, reminding the PM of his previous indication that a trajectory would be set out in the coming fiscal event, asked if he would commit to that timetable. He got the following answer:

“In relation to defence spending, let me recommit to increasing it to 2.5%. We will set out our plans in due course”.—[Official Report, Commons, 7/10/24; col. 26.]


This ambiguity and uncertainty at this late stage is unacceptable and dangerous. As the noble Lord, Lord Robertson, himself acknowledged, this is a British effort. We are actually controlling this show, so my plea to the noble Lord is this: if he has any apprehension or doubt at all that, with a Budget Statement imminent, either No. 10, the Treasury or both have been nobbled by the number crunchers and the “when” is to remain hanging in the air then he needs to get on his Islay walking boots, get round to the Treasury, get round to No. 10 and deliver a kicking.

Why is this so important? It is because it begins and ends with threat. Threat is multifaceted, but the primary threat right now is pure adversary European warfare, as the noble Lord, Lord Kerr, cogently described. That demands a shift to an urgent and immediate preparedness disposition. That is why we must deliver certainty now on the resource that defence requires. The strategic defence review must be threat-based. The threat is there now: it is all around us, it is dynamic and our resource response has to match that. Of course I accept that the defence budget is not the noble Lord’s responsibility, but there can be no more powerful an advocate than him. I entreat him to use his influence with the Government, as I entreat the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, to use his, to ensure that this uncertainty is dispelled.

The 2.5% by 2030 set out by the previous Government would have enabled an initial mobilisation of the war-ready approach and ensured stability for major existing programmes, such as GCAP and nuclear, while providing funding to enhance the lethality and survivability of our existing and imminent forces. However, coming good on the 2.5% is not enough to achieve a greater war readiness without also urgent reform within the MoD to create a less risk-averse department, able to procure at pace.

Some may greet this observation with a yawn and say, “Oh, we have heard all that before. Successive Governments have all talked about reform and what changes?”. I credit the noble Lord, Lord Robertson, with much greater discernment and acuity, because he knows, as he said, that the MoD of 2024 is unrecognisable from the MoD of the 1990s, and he knows why. The changing face of threat has transformed dramatically, as my noble friend Lord Howell described. We have seen the advances in technology. With the war in Ukraine, we know what a land-based conflict looks like in the 21st century, as the noble Lord, Lord Alderdice, described. Lastly, and arguably most importantly, it is because the MoD itself has begun that reform. On acquisition and procurement, the MoD had become subsumed in a stifling culture of risk aversion, and that atrophy feeds into strategic outlook and is inimical to a culture of war readiness—the noble Lord, Lord West, made that point well.

There needed to be a distinction between military risk and peacetime risks, which predominantly exist in the civil domain. That process had already begun under the last Government, and the noble Lord does not need me to tell him that there is an open door in the MoD for building on what has been achieved and rolling out that change in culture. If resource cannot deliver without reform, reform is limp without resource. Of course, I wish the noble Lord well with the review—he knows that—and I hope that what he has heard today will help him to shape it, but I urge him to put on these walking boots.

King’s Speech

Baroness Goldie Excerpts

Thursday 25th July 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

My Lords, it is a privilege and an unexpected pleasure to find myself at the Dispatch Box opening this debate for His Majesty’s loyal Opposition in this House. Just when I thought I might acquire a cat, grow roses and take up knitting, it seems that my noble friend the Opposition Chief Whip had other ideas. My noble friend Lord Minto is unavailable today—hence this cameo appearance.

I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, and the noble Baroness, Lady Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent, on their ministerial appointments and warmly welcome them to the Government Front Bench. I wish them both well. When I was a Defence Minister, I greatly respected the noble Lord; he is a man of principle and integrity who believes passionately in our defence and security. I found him constructive and pragmatic. In opposition, I and my colleagues will seek to emulate that good example.

I also pay tribute to former Defence Secretaries of State Ben Wallace and Grant Shapps. Ben was a fearless advocate for the MoD and its people, military and civilian, and he won admiration across the political spectrum for his leadership, which Grant Shapps prosecuted with energy. With the MoD working in tandem with my noble friends Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton, the former Foreign Secretary, and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon—he is sitting behind me—as Minister of State at the FCDO, two hugely respected global politicians, it constituted a very impressive defence and diplomatic presence on the global stage for the United Kingdom. It paid dividends and I thank them. In restaurant parlance, that deals with the amuse-bouche. Let me now get into the menu.

There has been a change of Government, but the complexity and intensity of the threats we face remain the same. Looking at the starters, I hope that the Government will still find some relevance in the integrated review and the integrated review refresh. Of course, the Government, under Britain Reconnected, may want to place their own emphasis on aspects of the IR, but I suggest that tearing it up would be unwise. I also gently suggest, in relation to defence and foreign affairs, Britain is already very well connected, and the Ministers to whom I referred were some of the prime connectors.

We led the charge to support Ukraine in defending herself against President Putin’s illegal invasion. We worked tirelessly with international partners to maximise the flow of humanitarian aid into Gaza, while supporting negotiations to secure the release of the Israeli hostages. Having listened to the Minister, I give all encouragement to the Government’s advocacy and interventions to try to improve that desperately worrying situation. We produced a groundbreaking White Paper on international development, which drew in the support of all political parties, to tackle global poverty. We have been a pivotal supporter of NATO. We have responded to the tensions and threat to maritime passage in the Red Sea, and we have made the Indo-Pacific tilt a reality with combined diplomatic and defence activity. That is all existing, rock-solid connection, and these Benches will support all endeavours by the new Government to maintain and build on that global connection. The Government are right to recognise the importance of these connections. It is nurturing these relationships that gives us influence.

Having dealt with the starters, let us now look at the rest of the menu. In foreign affairs, the Labour manifesto seeks to reset the UK-EU relationship. Within the important constraints of UK sovereignty, I think there is scope to develop new opportunities with the EU. The caveat must be to guard against being drawn into arrangements which, if they do not deliver, prove very sticky when we try to extricate ourselves. Pragmatism and a weather-eye should be the watchwords. They are dishes with a tasty potential, but they could turn indigestible.

The new Government’s aspirations—to tackle corruption and money laundering, be fully committed to AUKUS, conduct an audit of the UK-China relationship and protect the overseas territories’ and Crown dependencies’ sovereignty—all deserve support. That is solid fare, but these dishes need to be kept bubbling in the cooker, and we on these Benches will be checking the temperature.

Much more problematic are the various ambitions under the manifesto commitments of championing UK prosperity, climate leadership, strengthening diplomacy and modernising international development. We are into à la carte territory here. The dishes sound exotic, perhaps invitingly tasty, but without knowing the ingredients, they are just a culinary wish list, not dishes ready to serve. We will need much more detail. In that quest, can the Minister tell us, when he winds up, whether the previous Government’s White Paper on international development will contribute to the new Government’s objectives? On climate leadership, will the Government explain what a “clean power alliance” is? Who is to be in it, and for what purpose? When will it deliver whatever it is meant to deliver?

I now turn to defence. This is where the menu is certainly à la carte—indeed, some of the dishes may be unknown even to the chef. As to the effect on the digestive system, let me explore. My starting point is the Government’s recognition in their manifesto that the first duty of any Government is to keep the country safe. I wholeheartedly agree. However, from the primary obligation, onerous and inescapable consequences follow. I welcome the Government’s steadfast commitment to continue supporting Ukraine, their unshakeable commitment to NATO, their absolute commitment to our nuclear deterrent, their explicit commitment to AUKUS and the very welcome clarification and confirmation from the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, in this House on Tuesday, that the Global Combat Air Programme will proceed. On that last matter, given the comments made earlier in the House at Oral Questions, can we nail this down? Is the relative statutory instrument coming before the House next week? This is a rich and sumptuous fare, and these Benches will support all of it.

A stand-alone item on the menu is the strategic defence review. I accept that any incoming Government will want to stocktake. The appointment of the noble Lord, Lord Robertson of Port Ellen, whom I am pleased to see in his place, is reassuring. He is hugely respected, and his authority and expertise will bring substance to the review. However, even before he begins his work, he finds smoke pouring out of the kitchen. His boundary for the review is

“within the trajectory to 2.5%”—

I presume that is a reference to GDP, although the terms of reference do not actually say that. A trajectory normally means the most direct route from point A to point B. At the moment, there is no point A. If there is no point A, where is point B to be found? This is, frankly, farcical. The Government now need to commit to a start point for spending 2.5% of GDP on defence. If that really is the first duty of this Government, as their manifesto proclaims, they need to put their money where their mouth is.

I am sorry to be so blunt, but this clarity is so important and so critical to our global credibility, not least within NATO, that it must be addressed now. At least then the noble Lord, Lord Robertson, will have a clearer view of the kitchen. Will the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, in responding to this debate, if he cannot provide a specific road map to 2.5%, at least acknowledge the cogency of the concerns that I am articulating, which are to be found not only in this Chamber but more broadly? Even with that clarity of 2.5%, the budget will be severely stretched to combat the rising threats that the manifesto identifies. Quite simply, if the Government will not provide that clarity, we are right off the menu and reaching for bottles of Gaviscon.

Your Lordships will be relieved to hear that we have arrived at the desserts. To finish on an optimistic note, I have included some dishes of my own. I referred earlier to the Indo-Pacific tilt. The manifesto was silent on this, apart from an audit of the UK-China relationship, and I do not recall it featuring in the King’s gracious Speech. However, I was very relieved to learn that, in a recent briefing to the media, the noble Lord, Lord Robertson of Port Ellen, certainly identified what he described as a “deadly quartet of nations”—China, Iran, Russia and North Korea—from which I infer and assume the Indo-Pacific region will be covered in the SDR.

When I was a Defence Minister, one of the most productive parts of the job was increasingly working in tandem with my noble friend Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon, my counterpart in the FCDO. The FCDO and the MoD can collaborate to great mutual benefit, and that closer relationship is a way forward. My queen of puddings is that the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, and his noble friend Lord Collins of Highbury, who is also a highly respected Member of this House, will push forward that collaboration. Within the MoD, I found my most effective work abroad was born out of excellent defence attachés working closely with their FCDO counterparts in the host countries. My crêpes Suzette is that the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, should be given the same opportunities that I received and that he will fight the corner of the defence attachés.

In relation to defence and foreign affairs, there is much which unites the Government and these Benches. The Minister referred to common sense and humanity—I agree, and I would add “expediency”. The Pole Star of these Benches will always be the national interest: where we have questions, we shall ask them; where we have concerns, we shall raise them; if we have criticisms, we shall make them, but we shall do so always to support and protect the national interest. And if we can provide constructive help to the Government, we shall willingly give it.

Ministry of Defence: Expenditure

Baroness Goldie Excerpts

Thursday 25th July 2024 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Baroness Goldie]

To ask His Majesty’s Government whether they have made any decisions to pause expenditure on Ministry of Defence programmes; and, if so, on which programmes.

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Coaker) (Lab)]

Work continues on our programmes within existing allocated funding as the strategic review progresses. This review will consider the threats Britain faces, the capabilities needed to meet them, the state of the UK Armed Forces and the resources available. It will set out a deliverable and affordable plan for defence.

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I thank the Minister and congratulate him on his appointment, and welcome him to the Front Bench. My Question was predicated on an already stretched defence budget and government opaqueness about the future. The commitment to spend 2.5% of GDP is very welcome, but we do not know when—it is jam for an uncertain tomorrow. The Leader of the House, the noble Baroness, Lady Smith of Basildon, said to this Chamber on Tuesday evening, referring to the strategic defence review, expected to report early next year, that it

“will inform how the amount is reached”.—[Official Report, 23/7/24; col. 424.]

The noble Lord, Lord Robertson, is deserving of much admiration, but his expertise is defence, not macroeconomics and certainly not Treasury fiscal wizardry. This is the Government’s most important responsibility; we have to stop pussyfooting around. How can there be any informed strategic defence review when the chief reviewer has not been told what the budget he is working on is?

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

I thank the noble Baroness for her welcome to the post; it is an honour to follow her, as well as the noble Earl, Lord Minto. We have made a clear commitment to 2.5%, and the timetable for that will be announced at a future fiscal event. Alongside that, as the noble Baroness will know, the noble Lord, Lord Robertson, is conducting the review. As we think is important, the noble Lord will come forward with the capabilities needed to meet the threats of the future, and then we will know what we should be spending the money on, rather than just flying blind, without any idea as to the threats we will face and the capabilities needed to meet them.