Hospitality Industry

Baroness Foster of Oxton Excerpts

Tuesday 24th January 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

Again, noble Lords are tempting me to go down the path of Treasury policy. I know that the Chancellor has heard many of the representations that were made to him about tax-free shopping. If he has anything to announce, I am sure we will hear about it in the Budget.

[Baroness Foster of Oxton (Con)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that although the unemployment figures are low, which is a good sign, there are still 1.5 million people who are claiming unemployment benefit. What can the Government do to really ensure that every effort is being made to get these people back to work?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My noble friend makes an important point, and it links in well with some of the other questions that we considered. Before we reach for the easy solution of immigration, we want to make sure that all opportunities are offered to people who are already in this country and that those who are unemployed and claiming benefits can get back into work. That would be a great thing, and we will do all we can to assist that process.

Energy Supplies

Baroness Foster of Oxton Excerpts

Wednesday 12th October 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

No, that is not what I said—if the noble Lord would care to consult Hansard. I said that local support is extremely important. It is one of the factors that we will be looking to see demonstrated before any hydraulic fracturing licences are issued.

[Baroness Foster of Oxton (Con)]

My Lords, as a former Member of the European Parliament for North West England, and for many months in this House, even before the invasion of Ukraine, I have been a vocal supporter of the reintroduction of shale gas extraction in the Bowland fields in Lancashire. The protesters at the time generally were not those who lived there, but people who came from outside. We are also now aware of the fearmongering propaganda against fracking across Europe and the UK, which emanated from Russia. Can my noble friend the Minister reassure this House that the process will go ahead?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I know that my noble friend has been a long-standing supporter of fracking. There are a lot of steps to go through. There could be potential for large amounts of shale gas. We do not yet know. Local planning will still need to happen, the licences will need to be issued, the Secretary of State will want to be reassured that it is still safe in operation et cetera, but it is certainly a potential that we are looking at.

Winter Heating Initiatives

Baroness Foster of Oxton Excerpts

Thursday 7th July 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I look forward to seeing the Liberal Democrats campaigning on taking away from people money that has been allocated. It is a universal payment but of course there are considerable extra funds that have been closely targeted. There are shortages and problems across the economy. That is one part of the package but there are many other parts of the package directed at those most in need.

[Baroness Foster of Oxton (Con)]

My Lords, for the first time this winter we in the United Kingdom imported shale gas from the USA. Could my noble friend the Minister please tell the House when the report will be published on shale gas extraction for the future?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My noble friend makes an important point. The Secretary of State has asked the British Geological Survey to have an additional look at the problems and evidence surrounding the whole issue of shale gas extraction. I would say that the environment in this country is very different from that of the US, but we will certainly respond to that as quickly as we can.

Horizon Europe

Baroness Foster of Oxton Excerpts

Thursday 7th July 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I agree with the noble Baroness that this co-operation has benefits for both sides and it is a shame that the EU continues to drag science into wider politics. Now, more than ever, we believe that we should be working closely together with like-minded partners, but it is difficult for us to negotiate if we have no one on the other side willing to talk about it.

[Baroness Foster of Oxton (Con)]

My Lords, there is no justifiable reason for the UK not to be part of the Horizon programme. Does my noble friend agree that this is due not to any reticence from the UK Government but to the EU dragging its feet and placing unnecessary obstacles in the way?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My noble friend is exactly correct.

Energy Security Strategy

Baroness Foster of Oxton Excerpts

Wednesday 27th April 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I do not think so—I do not think it would be that specific. We will not have one person vetoing an application. However, we would want to make sure that there was general community support for further onshore wind capacity before development proceeded.

[Baroness Foster of Oxton (Con)]

Ukraine has certainly focused all our minds and minds in all countries, particularly across Europe. In particular I welcome the Government’s policy on expanding our nuclear energy programme and that they have now agreed to acknowledge that shale gas extraction should be considered. Notwithstanding that the shale gas extraction programme was halted, the initial work has been done. The technology has improved and horizontal extraction techniques take up a much smaller land area. This could come on stream as soon as 18 months’ to two years’ time, given the work that has already being done, albeit that it will be a long-term programme. Will my noble friend assure the House that the Government will crack on with this programme, as it is vital that we become energy self-sufficient as soon as possible?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I know that my noble friend feels strongly about this subject but it is important that we take account of the recent scientific consensus, and we will do that. We have always been clear that the development of shale gas must be safe and cause minimum disruption and damage to those living and working near sites, and that is not a new position. However, my right honourable friend the Secretary of State has asked the British Geological Survey to look again at this process. I think my noble friend is wrong in thinking that we could get large amounts of fracking on stream within 18 months. So far, we have had maybe two wells; to get significant amounts of fracked gas you would need many hundreds if not thousands of such wells, so it is quite a disruptive process and can take quite a long time. Nevertheless, we will be guided by the science and will look again to see whether it is possible to do it, with the consent of local communities.

Energy Storage Capacity

Baroness Foster of Oxton Excerpts

Tuesday 5th April 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

We have some fossil fuel storage capacity, particularly for gas, and we have 90 days’ worth of oil storage capacity because of our IEA commitments. All these technologies are important, but we do not need to increase our gas storage capacity; we have tremendous security of supply from our suppliers in the North Sea, from Norway, from interconnectors with the continent, and from LNG storage. We are well supplied there, but we need to increase our battery storage as well as our pump storage, and we will.

[Baroness Foster of Oxton (Con)]

My Lords, I think we all agree in this House that we need to generate enough energy to store in the first place. I understand that the Secretary of State has called for a review of shale gas extraction. Can my noble friend the Minister assure this House that this will be carried out swiftly and by people who have certainly not opposed fracking in the past? If it goes forward, we should then anticipate the storage for shale gas along with the other storage requirements that we need.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My noble friend makes an important point. She is right that the Secretary of State has asked the British Geological Survey to carry out a review of fracking technologies to see whether it is possible to carry it out safely, without seismic events. We have always said that we will be led by the science on these policies.

Shale Gas Production

Baroness Foster of Oxton Excerpts

Tuesday 15th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

As the noble Lord is aware, there was a further contracts for difference round held in December and onshore wind was able to bid into it. We will be announcing decisions on that shortly.

[Baroness Foster of Oxton (Con)]

My Lords, in 2014 Anders Fogh Rasmussen, the then NATO Secretary-General and former Prime Minister of Denmark, told a Chatham House meeting in London that Putin’s Government were behind attempts to discredit fracking across Europe. He said that Russia had

“engaged actively with so-called non-governmental organisations - environmental organisations working against shale gas - to maintain European dependence on imported Russian gas.”

In 2017, the US media and Congress picked this up too. The propaganda and scare tactics also became prevalent in the UK. If energy security was not a concern before, it certainly should be now. Does my noble friend agree with me that it is vital that we need to become energy self-sufficient sooner rather than later, and that we should no longer rule out shale gas extraction in the United Kingdom?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for her remarks. I suspect that she is probably right that there was an unholy alliance between Putin and some of the more extreme end of our environmental movement. Of course, both had the same objective in mind: to rule out shale gas production. Nevertheless, it is important to recognise that there were some serious problems caused by the attempted fracking in Lancashire. I take the point which my noble friend is making. We are not ruling it out. If the scientific objectives can be overcome, and the tremors which were caused can be solved, it is potentially an option for the future.

Revised Energy National Policy Statements

Baroness Foster of Oxton Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd February 2022 Grand Committee

[Baroness Foster of Oxton (Con)]

My Lords, black gold powered the industrial revolution. Where would we be today without it? Thank goodness the noble Baroness opposite, the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, was not around at the time. To produce enough firewood in the 1860s equivalent in energy terms for domestic consumption would have needed 25 million acres of land a year—nearly the entire farmland of England.

Mining was dirty and dangerous, but it became acceptable because we needed the energy. In fact, my late grandfather was a coal miner in the Cronton colliery, which had its share of disasters. A hundred and sixty years on, we are in a very different place, because geopolitics is determining what we should do next; the debate has been taking place today in the other place. This is about not just energy supply but energy security. Successive Governments did not really see this coming. In fact, you could say that they did not see the wood for the trees. North Sea oil and gas lulled us into a false sense of security, and we should never have allowed our nuclear programme to practically wither and die. In 1997, the Blair Government failed to carry out their plans to renew four nuclear generators that we needed. A few years later, Gordon Brown sold off our new nuclear capability to Japan.

It was an interesting debate yesterday, and I welcomed the information from my noble friend the Minister on our plans to push ahead with Hinkley Point and our nuclear programme in general. I also believe that the contribution by Rolls-Royce for the mini nuclear pods is a fantastic step forward, but we need to go further. However, there is an elephant in the room that needs to be discussed. A few years ago, we thought it worth while to drill for shale gas in Lancashire—just one area out of many across the UK. It was estimated that there were 37 trillion cubic metres of gas in the Bowland fields, and extracting just 10% would have been enough for us to be self-sufficient for the next 50 years. The programme would have regenerated a number of areas and could have created 75,000 pretty skilled jobs. That is what you call a real step in levelling up, and it is only the tip of the iceberg. But it does not suit the agenda of many of the more extreme activists of the green lobby. Misinformation on safety and relentless lobbying—mostly by those who did not even live in the surrounding area—stopped the programme.

It is astonishing that our energy policy can be determined by Extinction Rebellion, Insulate Britain and others who would like to take us back centuries. The irony is that those same people expect a roof over their head, central heating, hot water, mobile phones, iPads, washing machines, a dishwasher, a car and everything else that we all expect these days, as well as clean water and food on their plate. All that requires energy, which renewables alone will never be able to provide. As we know, we import 50% of our gas from abroad, mainly from Qatar and Norway, with some from Russia. If we continue along that road, by the end of the decade that will have risen to 70%. This winter, we imported shale gas from the USA, which this year will sink 19,000 wells—up from 16,000 only two years ago. The hypocrisy is nauseating, when you come to think of it.

Is fracking dangerous? No more than other extraction processes. Will there be the odd tremor? Well, probably, but technology has moved on in leaps and bounds, and there were many more tremors and much worse happened from deep coal mining, as I highlighted. To fill in those wells is positively absurd, and to carry on increasing our reliance on energy from abroad is equally absurd when it is beneath our feet.

I have welcomed the great strides that we have made for clean and green energy provision, and I echo and welcome the detailed analysis of the situation by my noble friends Lady Neville-Rolfe and Lord Moynihan, but we need to look outside the box and keep an open mind on how we move forward. I therefore I ask my noble friend the Minister to take back these comments and to let us have a debate on the specific issue sooner rather than later.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

We are always open to finding new ways of speeding these things up, but you also have to take into account the concerns of local communities which have to put up with this infrastructure and try to mitigate the effects on them.

I return to the point that my noble friend Lady Neville-Rolfe asked me about heritage coal. I am very well aware of this issue; I am told that my noble friend Lady Bloomfield is a hero in the heritage railway community because she was able to write to them to say that heritage coal would still be available to them to operate their railways. There are many sources of coal apart from Russia. Significant quantities of coal are still produced in Germany and Poland, so I am confident that they will still be able to get the coal to power their excellent machines. I do not think anybody, even the most committed climate zealot, would object to the relatively small quantities that they would use for their heritage equipment.

[Baroness Foster of Oxton (Con)]

I did not raise the issue of fracking necessarily as a short-term measure. With any energy, we know that it takes a long lead-in time to come to some sort of results. One of my key points was the fact that we are already importing 50%; by the end of the decade, that will rise to 70%. Neither am I talking about doing things without the consent of people who live locally. Of course, you must have the appropriate places to do these things. I have raised this issue so that we can start looking at it. It may be feasible in the not-too-distant future. because we just do not know at the moment what is going to happen.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My noble friend makes a good point. Supplies of gas from the North Sea are slowly declining. We will still have a need for fossil fuels, gas in particular, but of course the long-term trajectory of gas use will fall as we decarbonise the power supply and heating in homes. We might well not be importing larger quantities; so it would be a larger proportion of the smaller amount that we will require in future. However, we keep all these things under review and if all the environmental objections can be overcome and the difficult engineering processes solved, we are of course open to considering that. I just caution my noble friend that the difficulties are considerable and there are no easy solutions in this.

With that, I think I have dealt with most of the points that were on the subject of the national policy statements. I thank all noble Lords for their contributions.