Immunisation: Children

Debate between Baroness Finlay of Llandaff and Lord Markham

Wednesday 8th May 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

Or “none of the above”. The noble Lord is quite correct. Of course, data is vital in this whole area, and getting that sharing of data and understanding with people is vital. I will come back on the precise date, but I hope it will be soon.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, there have been more than 1,000 cases of measles in the last six months. What action are the Government taking to make sure that mothers are given options, which maximise convenience, of places to go and times when they could take their children for vaccination, rather than tying them to appointments that may clash with the working day when they cannot get childcare for other children?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

That is an important point. We must try to make sure that vaccination clinics are widespread. We have used pop-up clinics successfully in many locations, particularly around London, and that has helped get 25,000 more jabs into unvaccinated people’s arms in the last few months.

Covid-19 Vaccination: Coronary Disease

Debate between Baroness Finlay of Llandaff and Lord Markham

Tuesday 23rd April 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

Deaths from heart disease among those under 75 are down by about 20% compared with 2010, which is a clear trend. Notwithstanding that, we are very aware—Sir Chris Whitty is concerned about this—that Covid meant that a lot of people did not get basic heart and blood pressure checks. That is why we have introduced the Midlife MoT, which is designed to give people a 10-year risk analysis; have put blood pressure devices in pharmacies and all sorts of other places to get 2 million checks; and have a workplace heart disease strategy check. All this is designed to get that prevention in place so that people are aware of and understand the risks.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that, although we are talking about heart disease, we must also remember pulmonary embolism from clotting disorders, which can persist for up to six months after even a mild Covid infection? A massive pulmonary embolus is another cause of mortality in people who have Covid. One of the problems with the virus is its ability to mutate, but the evidence is that vaccination, even if it does not give you complete protection, moves you from obtaining serious Covid to having milder Covid. That risk of thromboembolism also needs to be monitored in the long term in relation to Covid infections, including for those who have had a mild infection and those who have long Covid.

[Lord Markham (Con)]

The noble Baroness is absolutely correct: a vaccine helped you avoid not just heart disease but all the other impacts of Covid that she mentioned, including long Covid and a whole list of other things. Again, the undeniable advice is that it is much better to have the Covid vaccine.

Cass Review

Debate between Baroness Finlay of Llandaff and Lord Markham

Wednesday 17th April 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I remember that it was the noble Lord who, in the round table that we had on this, made very clearly the same point I was making earlier about puberty and age. It is only when you are right the way through it that you really are in a position where you start to know your own mind and your own body. I agree with the noble Lord that it can be as late as 25, and that is why that is definitely the intention behind the eight clinics that are being set up—that they can provide that continuity right up to the age of 25, given that there is such a state of flux in a young person’s life.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, I thank the Government for giving us this opportunity. Dr Cass’s report is incredibly important. She has taken a scientific, as well as a kind, humane and humanitarian, approach to the children affected and to the way the report is written. In the recommendations, as well as the discussion over puberty blockers there is the importance of ongoing research, research capacity and data. One finding that emerged for her was that there was a lack of consistent collection of data, which means that for many of these children, the people who were looking after them were, in effect, flying blind. That cannot be allowed to continue in future.

Her recommendation 17 is that:

“A core national data set should be defined for both specialist and designated local specialist services”.


Recommendation 18 is that:

“The national infrastructure should be put in place to manage data collection and audit and this should be used … to drive continuous quality improvement and research in an active learning environment”.


My question to the Government is whether, among the organisations listed, there are also discussions with the Royal College of Surgeons, because there is also surgical intervention undertaken in some of the processes. Without a database of the numbers that undergo a surgical intervention, the type of intervention and the complication rates, and monitoring the effect of that surgery on quality of life, we risk carrying on flying blind with clinical treatments that are literally life changing.

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness. She is absolutely right: it is only in that lack of data environment that, dare I say it, ideology can fill in the vacuum and start to drive the sorts of behaviours that we see. Data is always the best way to cut through and provide light when there is a lot of heat in an argument. She makes an excellent point about the Royal College of Surgeons. I am sure that it has been contacted along with all the other bodies, but we need to make sure that is covered off. As ever, I will come back in detail in writing to all noble Lords who have raised points. I will make sure that point is addressed as well.

Sodium Valproate and Pelvic Mesh

Debate between Baroness Finlay of Llandaff and Lord Markham

Monday 25th March 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness. I will provide the precise figures, but the incidence has gone down by 34% in terms of the amount that has been prescribed. At the same time—and this is particularly fitting, as tomorrow is National Epilepsy Awareness Day—for some people, this is the only treatment for epilepsy that will work for them. It is therefore important to make sure that protocols are in place for prospective mothers and prospective fathers to make sure that, in those cases, they are not being prescribed sodium valproate, because in other cases it is often the only medicine that works.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, given that, sadly, errors and problems repeatedly occur in the NHS, how are the Government working with the devolved Administrations to ensure that a redress scheme is designed to be fit for the future as well as fit for the recognition of harm that has occurred? What will they do to ensure that trust in the NHS is maintained by an approach that encapsulates prospective monitoring and listening to patients and relatives for early detection of adverse events and avoids cumulative errors?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness. I was actually speaking to Minister Caulfield about this just this morning, because she is in regular touch with the affected patient groups. They were talking precisely about some of the things around the Scotland NHS scheme in place in terms of redress. It is fair to say that there are some concerns in patient groups on some aspects of this, but underlying what the noble Baroness says is making sure that, whatever we do, we are trying to do it consistently across the UK because there should be one consistent approach. Likewise, we are learning lessons from these things as well.

Cancer: Staffing

Debate between Baroness Finlay of Llandaff and Lord Markham

Thursday 14th March 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I totally agree that it is a range of things. I completely agree with the noble Lord that a good employer should be looking to make sure that employees have good working conditions and feel valued, and that there is an understanding culture in the workplace as well as decent pay. I say all this in the context that the workforce in the cancer space has actually increased by 56% since 2010, so it is not as if there have not been massive increases here. The actual number of treatments and diagnoses has gone up by more than 20% from pre-pandemic levels. So we are doing a lot in this space, but I agree with the noble Lord’s basic premise that we need to ensure that staff feel valued so they will want to carry on working.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my interest as being employed in part by the Velindre Cancer Centre in Cardiff. Do the Government recognise that continuity of care is absolutely essential for patients to be able to spot when things are changing and to allow sensitive conversations to occur? Will he therefore undertake to have urgent discussions with the Royal Colleges and with Health Education England to look at the training rotas for doctors who are working in oncology, allowing them to provide better continuity of care with less disruption to their own lifestyles, and better support? Will he also look at recommending that they might draw on the Welsh experience of Talk CPR, which allows early conversations about very difficult topics, providing video books and so on that patients can take home and then come back to see the same person again some time afterwards, providing continuity of care and better communication?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

First off, I completely agree about continuity of care—in any treatment, to be honest. I was just saying, in answer to a maternity question the other day, that continuity of care in the midwifery space is another vital example. On the question of learning lessons from what the noble Baroness mentioned, we have some meetings set up, so I look forward to discussing it further then.

NHS: Neurology Care

Debate between Baroness Finlay of Llandaff and Lord Markham

Monday 26th February 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I thank my noble friend, and I proudly wear the Epilepsy Action badge from the meeting I was just at. As my noble friend says, it is all about trying to get that early diagnosis. If you can get that and help people get the right treatments, that is exactly the right direction of travel because it can make a huge difference to outcomes. The progressive neurological condition toolkit I mentioned earlier sets out that pathway and the model of integrated care for all the ICBs, which they will all then be held to account on to make sure patients with all these conditions—and there are 600 of them including epilepsy—are getting the right treatment in their neighbourhood.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my interests in palliative care. Do the Government recognise that many of the patients with neurological disease are living with palliative care symptoms such as pain, breathlessness, worry and fatigue, which could be managed in the community with good integration between palliative care services and neurological services? Therefore, have the Government given specific commissioning guidance to integrated care boards to ensure that they look to see how the integration is developing in their own areas to enable these patients to improve their quality of life and their ability to live actively for as long as possible?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

Yes, that is precisely what I was referring to: the progressive neurological condition toolkit is all about the pathways for that integrated approach to it all. Again, there are 15 million people affected—I think this statistic was mentioned earlier—and one in five deaths come from related conditions, so making sure we have that integration with palliative care as well as the other services is key.

Anaesthesia Associates and Physician Associates Order 2024

Debate between Baroness Finlay of Llandaff and Lord Markham

Monday 26th February 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

That is something I will pick up on. On the point raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Fox, I say that the GMC, with the CQC, should be able to give the ongoing quality assurance.

The noble Lord, Lord Hunt, said very well that the discussion on mistakes has not been useful. We are all aware that, regrettably, mistakes happen in all areas, and we need to make sure that we understand and learn from them, rather than using them to point fingers. Moving into the regulated space, where there is duty of candour, is useful.

I do not think anyone could be failed to be moved by the passion with which the noble Lord, Lord Winston, spoke about his experience. It was a very telling story. As reassurance I cite the noble Lord, Lord Patel, on the scope of the practice: it is one anaesthetist to two AAs, and the role of the AA is very much to maintain, as he explained well. In a similar way, the PAs really do need to work under GP supervision. The numbers are set out in the long-term workforce plan. We have a foot on the throttle for those training places, particularly in regulating them. We will make sure that things are properly managed so they cannot get out of control.

I absolutely agree with the points made by the noble Baronesses, Lady Watkins, Lady Harding and Lady Bloomfield, that this is a people management issue, and a lot of the heat from this debate is a feeling from junior doctors and others that they are unloved and uncared for. I freely admit that there is a wider issue that we need to look at, concerning things like hot meals; clearly, it is something trusts need to look at it as well.

I echo the points made by the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, that passing this order is the best way to ensure the safety of patients. As we develop, there is perhaps scope to be more ambitious, but let us try to do this step by step, to make sure we really are happy and that the scope of practice works. As ever in a debate as long as this—it has been a very thorough one—I will write to fill in any details that I have not managed to cover. At this point, I hope and trust I have provided sufficient answers to the questions, and have demonstrated—

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

I hesitate to rise because the House clearly wants to end the debate, but I am not sure whether the Minister, in summing up, said whether the titles of physician associate and anaesthesia associate will be protected titles when the order goes through. Are they negotiable? I ask that question specifically because I had a lot of discussions with different people involved in this, particularly the GMC, and I have been concerned that if those are the only protected titles of all the grades registered by the General Medical Council, we may be storing up further problems for the future. If this is to be a protected title, can the Minister provide assurance that further statutory instruments could be brought forward if, in the light of the consultation advised by the noble Lord, Lord Allan, a different title is suggested? Could it then be changed?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

It is a protected title. The point I was trying to make about the general overhaul and understanding of the titles, however, is that there will be the scope to do this, as doctors and consultants are not protected titles today. I think we need to develop clarity on that, which is why the further reforms and SI changes will set out to protect other titles as well.

NHS Dentistry

Debate between Baroness Finlay of Llandaff and Lord Markham

Monday 19th February 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

There will be a schedule of when the mobile vehicles will visit each area, with the ability to pre-book so, if someone calls up with an issue, they will know that a truck will come to their area in a week or two’s time. That is the idea, or people can queue to receive those services as well. I hope this will be successful. It has worked quite well in some areas already. The case will prove itself and the 14 will be just the start. We can do much more from that, because we all agree that we need to expand supply.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

Given that over 8,800 new oral cancers were diagnosed last year, and a fifth of those were in people under the age of 65, do the Government recognise that it is a false economy not to increase dentistry provision, dental hygienist screening for oral cancers and advice on prevention, such as by cutting down on smoking and so on? The cost of treating this, and of early morbidity to the country, is huge.

[Lord Markham (Con)]

Yes, absolutely. That goes back to my noble friend’s point about outcomes. I know that a lot of places, if they are fortunate enough to have an NHS dentist, give you check-ups every six months as a matter of course. In fact, NICE says that if you are in good oral health you will need that only every 24 months, with the idea being that you can create more space for other people to come in, because prevention and screening are vital in all this as well.

Medical Devices (In Vitro Diagnostic Devices etc.) (Amendment) Regulations 2023

Debate between Baroness Finlay of Llandaff and Lord Markham

Tuesday 6th February 2024 Grand Committee

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Care (Lord Markham) (Con)]

My Lords, I am grateful to be here today to debate these important regulations. Before I begin, I draw the attention of noble Lords to my entry in the register of interests regarding my shareholding in a company which conducts private sector health screening.

To discuss this SI effectively, I must first set out some context. The provisions in the instrument concern in vitro diagnostic—IVD—devices. These are medical devices that test samples taken from the human body to monitor a person’s overall health or to treat and prevent diseases. Examples of IVD devices include blood tests to detect HIV or hepatitis, tests for cancer biomarkers and more commonly known tests such as pregnancy tests. The Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency—MHRA—is the UK regulator for medical devices, including IVD devices.

This SI is necessary first and foremost because it enables the MHRA effectively to enforce regulations in Northern Ireland, protecting patient safety. Without this SI, the MHRA will lack important powers equivalent to those in place across the rest of the UK.

Secondly, the SI is particularly beneficial given that life sciences and medical technology are major growth sectors in Northern Ireland, and this Government are committed to making Northern Ireland thrive. The SI will unblock UK-wide clinical studies of medical devices and IVD devices that include Northern Ireland locations. Northern Ireland has a unique regulatory position under the Windsor Framework, including access to the EU single market. By providing for a stable regulatory environment in Northern Ireland, this SI will further enable the whole of the UK to remain an attractive market for research and development of medical technologies.

In May 2022, the EU replaced its regulatory framework for IVD devices with a new regulation, the EU in vitro diagnostic regulation, which I will refer to as the EU IVDR. The EU IVDR has automatically applied in Northern Ireland since 2022 under the terms of the Windsor Framework. The Command Paper published last week reaffirms our commitment to unfettered access. This SI facilitates consistency in the operation of device regulations in Northern Ireland and GB, where beneficial to Northern Ireland, and reflects the unfettered access of Northern Ireland IVD devices to the GB market.

I will now take a moment to summarise the key provisions this instrument introduces. The SI lays down proportionate penalties and gives the MHRA powers to serve compliance notices for breaches of the EU IVDR in Northern Ireland. Although the MHRA previously had the necessary tools to respond to safety concerns, the statutory instrument further strengthens this toolkit. It gives the MHRA powers to designate and monitor notified bodies in relation to the EU IVDR and charge fees related to these activities. Notified bodies in the UK can carry out the technical conformity assessment of IVD devices for EU regulatory compliance, allowing the manufacturer to affix the “CE” and “UK(NI)” marks for placing their devices on the market across the UK.

Sponsors of performance studies for new IVD devices in Northern Ireland will need to apply to an ethics committee in the UK for an ethical review and hold sufficient insurance to meet any potential financial liability in the event of injury or death from participation in the study. The instrument also creates an arbitration procedure for refused performance study applications. It allows studies of IVD devices and clinical investigations of medical devices taking place in both Northern Ireland and Great Britain to require only a contact person to be established in Northern Ireland, rather than a legal representative, supported by a sponsor or legal representative established in Great Britain. This reduces the burden on businesses and makes it straightforward for studies and investigations to include sites across the whole of the UK. It will enable more studies and investigations to go ahead in Northern Ireland.

The SI allows a coronavirus test that complies with the EU IVDR and the new EU common specifications to be placed on the Northern Ireland market without needing to obtain separate approval from the MHRA, as is the current UK requirement. This will reduce burdens and avoid duplication of costs for Northern Ireland businesses wanting to place Covid tests on the market across the whole UK.

The SI includes specific provisions to ensure unfettered access of qualifying Northern Ireland IVD devices to the Great Britain market with no additional barriers or burdens to Northern Ireland traders. This product-specific legislation sits alongside general protections for Northern Ireland’s unfettered access to the rest of the UK under the United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020.

These provisions allow us to honour our current commitments under the Windsor Framework and will strengthen the regulation of IVD devices in Northern Ireland, to the benefit of patients and businesses. For these reasons, I am content to bring forward this legislation today. I commend these regulations to the Committee.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, I should declare that my son is a cardiologist and founder of Rhythm AI and Echopoint Medical—I think those medical devices do not completely fall within the scope of this, but I declare it anyway just in case.

It is notable that the medical devices road map from the MHRA, which set a future regulatory framework for devices and was published on 9 January, talks about four statutory instruments. Does this form part of those four? Are others due to come, and if so, when?

Despite the Government’s warm words about us being an attractive market, the problem is that the UK is becoming an increasingly less attractive market because our application-to-approval time has extended beyond that of other countries such as the US and Australia and, I think, Japan. Clinical trials in general are not being brought to the UK. During the pandemic, we showed that MHRA approval could allow us to be the fastest in the world with vaccine development and, more recently, with treatment of sickle cell disease. However, low numbers of patients are now enrolled in studies. For the life sciences to develop, trial and test new technologies, they need to be able to do so rapidly. How will the MHRA have adequate workforce to deal with an increased workload from Northern Ireland? Has that been factored in?

How will the risk assessment be set? It is important to recognise that some developments will fail and fall by the wayside. A realistic risk assessment recognises that a whole population needs to be studied. That is best done with post-market surveillance, which is key to evaluating the implementation of any new technology in the real world.

There is a view that our regulations have become tighter, making it too hard and burdensome for device development to be brought to the NHS; as the UK market is small, we need to make it particularly attractive for innovation. The eventual market, being small, would allow us to keep our innovations and market them abroad once they had gone through full approval processes. What steps are in place for mutual recognition agreements to be taken forward?

A paper from Birmingham Health Partners, Alternative Routes to Market for Medical Devices, suggests there are three routes. I gather that Switzerland has now undertaken to adopt the Food and Drug Administration approval systems from the US, registering the file—for us, it could be registered with the MHRA—with a post-market surveillance plan in place. Of course, the initial safety standards must be met, but it is in the real world that benefits and risks are revealed.

For our deficits and gaps in the NHS, there are problems that we need to solve by pulling new technology and diagnostics in. But the golden age of innovation will happen only if there is fast approval to evaluate, with good surveillance so that those innovations with problems are rapidly dropped and those with promise and better patient outcomes continue to be developed. This innovation has to happen across primary and community care as well as hospital specialty services. It requires the recognition of intrinsic risk by adjusting the risk threshold, including that not to innovate is also a risk.

The public understands the need to innovate. In the related areas of clinical trials, which I think is an important but salutary comparator, we have dropped from being fourth in the world to being 10th in the world, which is much to the loss of our NHS and our patients, as well as, obviously, innovation business. Our time for the regulatory review is greater, so we are slower than many other countries. How will these regulations strip out unnecessary processes and bureaucracy and speed up processes to make us attractive to innovators? Northern Ireland being in the unique position that it is now in could be a very important market for innovation, with its fast and easy access and attractions for those developing in vitro devices.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Markham (Con)]

Absolutely. Clearly, we would like it both ways, for obvious reasons. There are a number of areas where we are still being open about our rules—not just to the EU but to other countries as well, with the hope that there is some reciprocation down the line. That is definitely the intention. Talking to the regulators, I know that the situation is crazy. We know that the Australian, Canadian or Singapore regulators are top-notch, so we should be satisfied with their work in many cases. The feeling often is that stage one towards that recognition is that, while we might have slightly different standards, recognising that where they have conducted tests, rather than reconducting those tests, we should at least recognise that each other has done the tests correctly. We should take that data and that should speed things up.

In answer to the question of the noble Lord, Lord Allan, we are talking about any type of diagnostic test—

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

May I intervene before the Minister moves off the subject of mutual recognition? Perhaps I may clarify whether he envisages this being similar to the Orbis project for drug approval recognition, particularly regarding oncology and cancer drugs, where FDA approval is recognised. There are different levels, so that things can come through to clinical application quickly. What is the position as regards us recognising FDA approval for development? Do the Government intend for that to be adopted by the MHRA, rather than devices having to go through all of our processes as well? Will we recognise the FDA system, with increased focus on post-marketing surveillance?

Pharmacy First

Debate between Baroness Finlay of Llandaff and Lord Markham

Tuesday 6th February 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord and will answer his questions in reverse. On getting the ICBs around the table, I absolutely agree. This is seen as a key part of those initiatives and handling those pressures. Generally, going back to privacy, I would expect to see, as ever with these things, some pharmacies that become very good and set up really nice areas, with a lot of expertise. I am sure they will push ahead. I am making this up, to be honest—this is not policy—but I would not be surprised if it started off with a base level of ones that can do only the seven, with others that are more skilled and show that they can manage more things, such as hypertension. There will be some very successful ones. On the cap, it would be perverse if those really successful ones suddenly hit the buffers, so to speak. As I understand it, the cap looks at this much more in terms of a global presence. In the department as a whole and the Treasury, we are going into this with a budget in mind and with the appropriate safeguards. But, going back to the value for money question, overspending is actually probably good news because it shows that it is working.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my role as chair of the Bevan Commission in Wales. Through the Bevan exemplars, we have supported projects with extended roles for pharmacists. That included a project on urinary tract infection treatment in remote areas, which was very successful in a farming community.

My questions relate to the way in which this will be evaluated, because this project and the rollout sounds as if they are starting off well, but some difficulties may be encountered. One may be in appropriately diagnosing something such as a sore throat when it might be glandular fever. If you give the wrong antibiotics, there could be quite a nasty reaction. But equally important—in fact, often more important—are drug interactions overall. If the pharmacist does not have a list of the medications that a person is on, there is a real risk of drug interactions. Patients often cannot remember the names of things they are taking, particularly when they have multiple comorbidities. Drug interactions can be a really big problem to manage, so I would like to know how this will be evaluated and how adverse events, such as drug interactions that had not been picked up, will be collated centrally and notified.

My other question relates to the programme we developed in Wales. I declare that I am a vice-president of Marie Curie, which has the “Daffodil Standards” for community pharmacy. Our eight standards for community pharmacists have developed the concept of a pharmacy champion for palliative and end-of-life care, to make sure that medication is available and held in stock in a format that the patient can take. This is also linked to paramedics who are trained to administer medication at home, to families being trained to administer medication, and to pharmacists themselves undertaking individual medicines reviews to see what can be discontinued as well as what can be continued or how doses should be affected. Although we start off with this list, my interest in palliative and end-of-life care obviously means that I would like to see these Marie Curie “Daffodil Standards” adapted much more widely, because we know perfectly well that out-of-hours access to medication can be a real problem for families looking after people at home.

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness. Key to her first point on drug use is obviously the functionality to be able to see the whole patient record— I talked about accessing that earlier. At the same time, the plan for the data flow is to look at what is being prescribed by the pharmacies—before the team gets on my back, I will say that “prescribe” is not quite the right word, because it is patient guidance and they are not formally prescribing. What is issued will go through the same data flow as for GP surgeries so that we can generally measure whether we think pharmacy X is overprescribing—or oversupplying—a certain type of drug versus a GP surgery. The idea is that that will be monitored in exactly the same way. Generally, on the overall experience of Pharmacy First, we commissioned the National Institute for Health and Care Research to review that to make sure it is done.

If I understood correctly, the question behind the palliative care point is, as we said about the other services: can we see them extending more, particularly in terms of out-of-hours use? The beauty of all this—there are things we can learn from the services that Wales and Scotland have introduced—is that, once the principle is established and there is a track record of it working well, there will be all sorts of opportunities such as these to extend it based on capability and, sometimes, convenience, with matters such as out-of-hours care.

Premature Deaths: Heart and Circulatory Conditions

Debate between Baroness Finlay of Llandaff and Lord Markham

Tuesday 6th February 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

Yes. I thank my noble friend. Prevention is absolutely key, as is tackling things such as smoking—the smoke-free legislation will do this for a new generation—obesity, and high levels of sugar and fat in foods. These are all key parts of our armoury.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, I declare that I was a member of the Times Health Commission, which today published a report in which we highlight that a large proportion of disease is lived with silently, long before it presents. Therefore, prevention for cardio- vascular problems needs to start right from school age; simply screening people later in life is already too late. When people have an out-of-hospital cardiac arrest—I think there are about 30,000 a year—they have only a one in 10 chance of surviving. Will the Government undertake to work much earlier with schools and universities and young people to help them identify whether they are at particular risk through smoking, inappropriate alcohol use, living with obesity, inappropriate diets and so on, which will stack up problems into the future?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

Yes. Those are all key measures that we need to take and, I like to think, are making progress on. I thank the noble Baroness for her work and all the noble Lords who have been working on the Times Health Commission, which is a valuable contribution to this debate. I mentioned digital health checks. I have seen technology where holding your phone up in front of you can test your blood pressure and your heart rate. We need to verify that, but I think that is definitely the way of the future as well.

NHS: Fracture Liaison Services

Debate between Baroness Finlay of Llandaff and Lord Markham

Monday 5th February 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

Again, the use of hubs and their importance for getting people back to work is recognised. That is why in 2023, in the major conditions strategy, we announced the £400 million workforce programme to get 100,000 people with employee support back into work. It is absolutely recognised that what we can do with fracture liaison clinics is a major help. We are also looking at digital therapeutics—the app is close to my heart—that can help with MSK as well. There are a range of measures.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my role as president of the Chartered Society of Physiotherapy. Will the Government undertake to work with the physios and Public Health England to look at prevention? This is a public health issue because people have trip hazards in their homes, and a decrease in exercise means that people’s balance generally is not as good, and therefore they are more likely to have a fall. When people do have a fall when they are older, they are more likely to sustain a fracture. Avoiding trip hazards and increasing people’s mobility can be a very important preventive measure.

[Lord Markham (Con)]

The noble Baroness is correct. As well as using a physio to strengthen people’s use of their limbs, there is a strong investment case behind home improvements because of the payback from them. This is all part of the prevention agenda, and we are looking to see if we can put a package of measures together because our feeling is that prevention is the best way to go.

Care of Critically Ill Children

Debate between Baroness Finlay of Llandaff and Lord Markham

Monday 29th January 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

First, I thank my noble friend and the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, for their work in this field. Of course I will very happily meet to talk about progress. Minister Caulfield has agreed to chair the task force itself, and we have agreed the constituent parties; we are including the Ministry of Justice, the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health, the Royal College of Nursing and health qualification providers, which will all take part in the task force.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, I am grateful for the compliment paid; it was a privilege to be involved. I declare my interests in palliative care. Given that the number of children with life-limiting and life-threatening conditions has more than doubled in the last 20 years, particularly in the nought-to-19 age group and especially in the under-ones, do the Government recognise the importance of early involvement of multiprofessional specialist palliative care teams, which can support families to come to terms with what they have to come to terms with, help other clinicians to understand the families’ perspectives and avoid some of these disputes happening in the first place? Can the Minister tell us how many of the integrated care boards have commissioned specialist palliative care services that work between hospitals, ICUs and wards, out into the community and into hospices?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

The noble Baroness is correct: the number of young people with life-limiting conditions has gone up, from about 33,000 around 2001-02 to about 87,000 more recently. A lot of that is, conversely, good news in that we have more and more treatments that can keep these children alive for longer. Clearly, that requires the wraparound-type service that the noble Baroness is talking about. It is the responsibility of the ICBs to provide that; I will provide details of the progress of individual ones when we meet.

NHS Winter Update

Debate between Baroness Finlay of Llandaff and Lord Markham

Thursday 11th January 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

The noble Lord is correct; London is always our most challenging place. I have found that across the board, funnily enough. He is right in terms of Covid and flu vaccinations, but it is also the case for the take-up of all sorts of different services. We see technology as a key enabler; in fact, the number of people who have booked their vaccinations and follow-up through the app has multiplied significantly. I do not have the precise figures in my head, but they really have gone up. A lot of that is through people seeing their reminder through the app as well. It is recognised that London in particular needs more targeted action—in fact, noble Lords will see an advertising campaign come out in the next couple of weeks or so. We are really trying to promote usage of the app, which is a tool for all these sorts of things as well.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, I should declare that I am a registered doctor with the GMC. I live in Wales, but I do not want to get into data-hurling over Wales, but I do have a comment to make. I would like to follow up on the question from the noble Lord, Lord Allan of Hallam, about virtual wards. The Minister may be unable to tell us now, but how many of those patients were actually terminally ill; how many of the virtual wards were providing 24/7 effective cover for these patients; and what is happening across the whole country in relation to 24/7 palliative care cover? All the evidence that is emerging is that it really is grossly inadequate. Families are left unable to access the care and support they need.

Ten years ago, NICE recommended that every area in England should have a helpline so that families can phone if there is a crisis, 24/7, when they are looking after someone with palliative care needs at home; yet the Marie Curie report Mind the Gaps—I should declare that I am a vice-president of Marie Curie—which has been developed with the Cicely Saunders Institute—again, I should declare my interest there as an international adviser—has shown that only one in three areas has such a helpline available. Two-thirds of the country has nowhere for people to phone.

Is the Minister prepared to meet me and others from palliative care to mirror what is happening in Ireland now? From this February, the Irish Government will be funding 100% of hospice clinical services, because they have recognised the inadequacy of relying on voluntary sector funding. We know that good care costs less than poor care. We know that where there is good palliative care in place, with 24/7 support, the number of emergency admissions goes down, the pressure on acute beds goes down and inappropriate transfers drop. Although I am not expecting an answer today, I hope the Minister will seriously consider looking at that situation.

I shall just make a comment from Wales and point out that in Wales, paramedics are now being trained specifically in palliative care. Some consultant paramedics are now attached to palliative care teams and are able to administer palliative care drugs out of hours as required.

My other question for the Minister is on what discussions he has had with the GMC over retention. Those doctors who were temporarily registered have received notice that, as from March, for those who had retired, their temporary registration because of Covid will cease. I just wonder, with the figures we have seen come out today, whether it would be wise to negotiate with the GMC, first, for that to be deferred and, secondly, for all those doctors to be contacted and asked directly how they would like to contribute to improving some of the services. There is a lot of skill there which is currently being unused and underutilised. Again, I guess I should declare an interest because my husband is a dermatologist and has been in that position but has never been called up and would have been quite willing to go and help with clinics. Those are some of my questions for the Minister.

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness for those points. Absolutely, I will need to come back on some of the detail on the virtual wards and how they are being used. One thing I will say about them, though, from my knowledge, is that the ability of people to communicate on a regular basis is one of the key advantages. On the point she makes about palliative care and the ability to have 24/7 communication, the beauty of the virtual wards is that they have that inbuilt, for want of a better word—they have that advantage. As noble Lords know, I am always eager to learn from practices all around the world, so I will very happily meet people and learn from them.

On retention, absolutely, we all know that the supply of doctors and medics is the key thing that we need, so I personally feel that we need to look at every avenue to make sure that we can maximise that supply. Again, it is something that I will inquire into as a result of that, and maybe when we have our meeting we can discuss that further.

NHS App: Medical Records

Debate between Baroness Finlay of Llandaff and Lord Markham

Tuesday 19th December 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

The noble Baroness is absolutely correct. While I think everybody would say that 90% digitisation is pretty good—it is not 100%, but it is pretty good—always making sure people are talking to each other is often the issue. I am sure we have all had examples of that. That is what the federated data platform helps to do, in terms of drawing it all in. For example, Chelsea and Westminster has put what was on 10 different spreadsheets and records into one place. We are getting a lot better at that, but is it perfect and seamless? No, there is still some work to be done.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, given the importance of medical research, for the development of advances in knowledge and for inward investment into this country in research, what consideration is being given to ensuring that patients in different disease groups can be asked whether they would consent to being informed about clinical studies that may be relevant to their condition? This is so that pre-consent to being approached is being built into the system, because we know that one of the big delays in recruitment into clinical studies is the process of case finding and consent, particularly for less common conditions and when patients are living in more rural and remote areas.

[Lord Markham (Con)]

It is fair to say that we have made massive improvements. At the beginning of the year, we only had around 10% of patients with GP records available in the app but today it is 80%, which is a massive change. That allows us to do things like “Be Part of Research” which we have had hundreds of thousands of people volunteer for. We have not yet taken it to the next stage, so that you can get ahead of the curve for approvals for certain types, as the noble Baroness said, but the beauty of all this is that it gives all the opportunities for the future. As it is my last time standing up this year, I would like to finish by wishing everyone a happy Christmas.

Children’s Hospices: Funding

Debate between Baroness Finlay of Llandaff and Lord Markham

Tuesday 14th November 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my interest as having set up training in paediatric palliative medicine in the UK and internationally. Together for Short Lives data shows that about £15,000 per annum is spent on children and young people in the active caseload, which is probably almost 10,000 young people having care from hospices, some of them for many years. Given that there are service specifications and guidelines, can the Minister be a bit more explicit as to how those are monitored to ensure that service specifications really do meet the needs of the children and that hospice services are integrated with local paediatric services, given that such children often have multiple and complex needs?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

As I said, it is a responsibility for all of them, but I will happily give the noble Baroness a detailed reply so that it is very clear exactly what they are doing to make sure that happens.

Suicide Prevention Strategy

Debate between Baroness Finlay of Llandaff and Lord Markham

Thursday 26th October 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

We are definitely always looking to improve, get access to better data and learn lessons from that. I will make sure that that is understood and follow up with DWP Ministers accordingly.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my interests in medicine. The new suicide prevention strategy is most welcome, but do the Government recognise that the ONS data shows that the time of diagnosis and first treatment of those with severe health conditions can be a high-risk time when they feel devastated and often do not have adequate support? The way in which news is communicated and bad news is given to them alters their risk of suicide, particularly in those who have been bereaved by suicide previously. Will the Government therefore put pressure on NHS England and the GMC to ensure that communication skills are included in revalidation and appraisal processes so that patients get better support and are steered towards the new SR1 benefit, which is designed specifically for people with poor prognoses and can play a really important role in relieving financial pressures?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness for her support for the suicide prevention strategy. It tries to look at the themes behind this issue, of which working to give effective support, communication and training is absolutely key—as is making sure that that is followed up on. The other thing that I want to pull out from the report is the real feeling, in terms of the seven key themes, that suicide prevention is everyone’s business and is something that we all need to be aware of and could learn more about.

Countess of Chester Hospital Inquiry

Debate between Baroness Finlay of Llandaff and Lord Markham

Tuesday 5th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, I declare that I am registered with the General Medical Council. I am a doctor and I have been involved in providing some support to the Nuffield review into disagreements in care of critically ill children, which is about to report. As the noble Baroness, Lady Merron, pointed out, this is unbearably and unbelievably terrible. I watched the whole story unfold almost with a sense of disbelief, except the awful thing is that one can believe it happened as it did, with the suppression of the whistleblowers.

That is what I want to pick up from the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Allan: we do not have a senior doctor on every board. The training of a doctor is different from the training of a nurse, a manager or an HR manager. That understanding of statistics is different. When a doctor tries to raise a concern but hits a brick wall, they need to be able to go directly to another doctor on the board to explore what they want to raise and because that other doctor is also subject to the GMC’s requirements. I quote from the GMC’s duties of a doctor:

“You must take prompt action if you think patient safety, dignity or comfort is being compromised”—


“must” being the key word. It was easier for staff to raise issues in the days when there was a senior doctor on the board. It did not always work, but I hope the Government will look at that as an action that could be taken much more rapidly. The GMC also says that doctors must contribute to adverse event recognition.

Again, as has been pointed out, these things have happened before: we had the Robert Francis report into Mid Staffs and the Bristol inquiry into heart surgery. Those people who have been whistleblowers have been traumatised, but nobody has been as completely destroyed as the parents when they know that their child has been killed. Child bereavement is overwhelmingly terrible, but when you know that it was from the action of another person it is even more impossible to come to terms with it.

I hope the Government really will look at whether some urgent intermediate action can be taken, and whether they can have discussions with the GMC so that doctors who are reported to the GMC as being difficult because they are raising concerns are not treated with some of the problems that have arisen, where we have seen doctor suicides and so on when they have been inappropriately referred. I hope the Government will seriously consider whether there needs to be a senior doctor on every board, both in hospital and a provision in the community. Even the appraisal systems that are in place do not seem to be working adequately to protect whistleblowers.

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness for bringing her knowledge and skills to this. Bringing senior doctors very much goes along with the sentiment that we were all trying to express about equipping boards in the right way to be the first line of defence in bringing such things up. I know that many boards have doctors on them, but the noble Baroness raised a very good point; it is something that we should take back. From my point of view, I absolutely see the sense in making sure we do that.

Community Health Services: Waiting Lists

Debate between Baroness Finlay of Llandaff and Lord Markham

Wednesday 12th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

As noble Lords probably know, we published this data for the first time in March, so it is only now we are getting the data that we can truly work on it. It sets out 35 different areas where we understand those waiting lists for the first time, so we know which ones to prioritise—home oxygen being clearly one of those.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, with a staff absence rate of 5.6% overall for NHS community staff, which is equivalent to 75,000 staff, what are the Government doing to address this high level of sickness, including mental health sickness? Without the staff, the services cannot be provided. Can the Minister also explain what is being done to target those who have particular training in looking after children, given that in some areas the waiting lists for children are incredibly high, particularly for mental health services for children in the community?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

The noble Baroness is correct: absenteeism is often an example, in the same way as poor retention is, of problems in the wider workplace and the pressures that people have to face now. That is why the long-term workforce plan, which I think was welcomed by all noble Lords, looks to tackle every aspect: recruiting more staff so the pressures on individuals are reduced; making sure we have training and retention plans in place; and the necessary skills training in each area, including that of young people.

Dementia Palliative Care Teams

Debate between Baroness Finlay of Llandaff and Lord Markham

Thursday 15th June 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

We have developed the dementia palliative care toolkit, which we are spreading around all the ICBs. Health Education England has developed an end-of-life care training programme, which is being taken up. Derbyshire has been a key part of the efforts as well, with its own programmes. It is very much our responsibility to make sure that the ICBs, which by law have to provide these services, are providing them to a high standard.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my interest in palliative care and as vice-president of Marie Curie. When are the Government going to produce a strategy for these ICBs to commission against, and against which the provision of palliative care can be measured across the country? The evidence at present is that it is extremely variable. While toolkits have been rolled out in some areas, that has not happened everywhere, and some ICBs seem to have remarkably little commissioning on the table working with the voluntary sector, in particular, and local authorities. I was appalled to see the draft major conditions strategy, in which palliative care for people with dementia is only one short phrase rather than a distinct paragraph.

[Lord Markham (Con)]

Dementia is an important part of the major conditions strategy and obviously there will be more coming out of that going forward. As I said, the Health and Care Act made the ICBs firmly responsible. Some are excellent examples, such as Derbyshire; for the others that are not, it is very much our responsibility in the centre, and I include Ministers in that. I have mentioned before that each of us has six ICBs that we look after, and part of our job is making sure that they are commissioning to the standards they need to.

Mental Health Services: Huntington’s Disease

Debate between Baroness Finlay of Llandaff and Lord Markham

Monday 12th June 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

Yes, I think is probably the best answer I can give in the circumstances. I will absolutely do that and will write to my noble friend.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, the draft major conditions strategy refers to mental health conditions and dementias so that should include diseases such as Huntington’s. The problem is—and I declare my interest in palliative care—that as these patients become terminally ill, they have complex physical and mental health needs, yet we know there are serious inequities in provision. Despite the Government’s own amendment to the Health and Care Act 2022, the draft strategy does not have a distinct section on palliative and end-of-life care. Why have the Government not made this a core, integrated part of the strategy for these major conditions when patients, such as the ones with Huntington’s, have really complex needs—and their families have complex needs too—particularly around the time of their death?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

The noble Baroness is correct that they have complex needs and I know from personal experience, with both my mother and my father, the importance of end-of-life palliative care. I thank the noble Baroness for the warning of the question and have been assured that the integrated whole person care approach that the major conditions strategy sets out will include palliative care measures.

NHS National Health Inequalities Improvement Programme

Debate between Baroness Finlay of Llandaff and Lord Markham

Thursday 25th May 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

Absolutely. Again, there are also very good grounds for locally sourcing in that way in terms of the environment and reducing the carbon footprint. I must admit to not being very familiar with some of the pilots mentioned, so I will find out and get back to the noble Baroness.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, the latest data from the National Child Measurement Programme showed that among 10 to 11 year-olds at school, almost 38% were overweight, of whom nearly two-thirds were obese. Do the Government recognise that this represents severe malnutrition in that cohort and that public health should be involved in the planning and inspection of school meals to try to improve that figure? These children will become health problems for the whole of the nation going forward unless their malnutrition is corrected.

Pharmacies: Medicines at Home

Debate between Baroness Finlay of Llandaff and Lord Markham

Wednesday 17th May 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I thank my noble friend. She is right to stress the importance of how we support Pharmacy First as a way of delivering primary services and supporting pharmacies in and of themselves. Technology will play a key part in that, both in terms of navigating the patient, when appropriate, to use the pharmacy and by allowing them to book pharmacy appointments.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, an estimated £300 million-worth of prescribed NHS medicines are wasted every year. Over half of those come from medicines either disposed of in care homes or returned to pharmacies. Do the Government have plans to ensure that, where terminally ill patients are being cared for at home, “just in case” medication, which is personalised, is available so that if a crisis arises out of hours it can be dealt with rapidly and appropriately, and so that some of that wastage could be decreased?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

Absolutely. That is one of the major reasons why blister packs are not always the right solution, because there are many cases of wastage in exactly the way that the noble Baroness has mentioned. Wastage is one of the many reasons why both NICE and the Royal Pharmaceutical Society have come out against the blanket use of blister packs.

Diphtheria

Debate between Baroness Finlay of Llandaff and Lord Markham

Tuesday 18th April 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

We are all aware of the rumours and allegations about the safety of the MMR vaccine, which we are all delighted to know were totally unfounded. As my noble friend says, it has been quite a task to regain confidence in it, but we are doing so and vaccination rates have gone up. I will provide her with the exact details of those new take-up rates.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

How are the Government working with those countries through which migrants pass when fleeing for their lives from war zones, given that many of them are held in very poor conditions where they pick up infectious diseases, including such things as scabies—which are parasites—TB and other diseases? They may also be exposed to chemicals because they take on farm work or factory work in a desperate attempt to get some money prior to arriving in this country. By working with other countries, we may decrease the burden on our NHS and prevent people presenting late with conditions such as diphtheria or even cutaneous diphtheria, which is extremely rare in this country but is now being seen in some of these very deprived populations.

[Lord Markham (Con)]

To be honest, I think the most effective method is to have the screening when people enter. Refugees come in from across the world so, to concentrate resources, it is best done on entry. The record speaks for itself; an 88% take-up rate is very high, comparable to that of the general UK population. I think we have got it right.

Patient Deaths: Ambulance Waiting Times

Debate between Baroness Finlay of Llandaff and Lord Markham

Tuesday 14th March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

Local ICBs—integrated care boards—are integral to this, understanding the need for ambulances in each of their areas. As noble Lords have heard me say before, often, having a fall does not require an ambulance response at all, but it is much better to have a full service. Now, it is the responsibility of every ICB to set up a full service so it can respond more appropriately. Additionally, we are tasking each ICB with getting on top of ambulance wait times.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, the Royal College of Emergency Medicine’s February report says:

“The crisis in emergency care is relentless and staff are burned out and exhausted. The significant shortfall of beds and staff is driving this crisis.”


In February there were 1.2 million A&E attendances. More than 126,000 patients waited more than four hours from the decision to admit them—these are trolley waits —and nearly 35,000 of those were delayed by more than 12 hours. What are the Government doing in their workforce plan to look at projected workload and figures and ensure that the plan has minimum staffing levels and staff numbers overall?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

The noble Baroness is correct that capacity is key to this, as are the workforce and the workforce plan. I am pleased to say that a more advanced version of that will be published shortly, hopefully showing that we are getting on top of it. At the same time, we have put 7,000 extra beds into the system, which is starting to have an impact. Category 2 wait times are down by an hour compared with last month, but clearly there is more that we need to do.

Physiotherapy: Rehabilitation Services

Debate between Baroness Finlay of Llandaff and Lord Markham

Thursday 23rd February 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

As I said, physio is key to rehabilitation, whether for strokes, as we have discussed, or for any one of the number of reasons that people are in hospital and trying to come out. As I mentioned, we have seen increases: there are about 7% more people now in training each year, and that figure increases each year. We now have about 50,000 physios in the public and private sectors who are providing those types of services. Clearly, there are examples where we need to do more, but we are also making progress.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my interest as the president of the Chartered Society of Physiotherapy. Do the Government recognise that almost three-quarters of physiotherapists feel that they cannot do their job properly now, and that, as well as a workforce plan, there needs to be a workplace plan for adequate rehabilitation that goes way beyond cancer and stroke services? All orthopaedic operations, and many other interventions, will not be successful without adequate, immediate physiotherapy in the post-op period, so, by failing to provide physiotherapy, we are stacking up problems for the future with long-term physical dependency and not maximising the benefit of interventions provided early.

Hospitals: Maintenance

Debate between Baroness Finlay of Llandaff and Lord Markham

Thursday 9th February 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I can speak clearly on the subject of the new hospital programme, which I think the noble Lord will find is world-class. I will happily demonstrate that to him; indeed, people will see how ground-breaking this project actually is. We will see standardised designs with improved clinical standards, and more efficient productivity and costs as a result. It will be world-class, and we will export it around the world.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, if the Government are saying that these are to be world-class hospitals, what is the comparison? Is it hospitals such as those in the Netherlands, which are extremely well designed and function very well, versus the many hospitals here which do not function well and have appalling design features? As soon as the staff move into them, they deteriorate rapidly.

Maternity Services

Debate between Baroness Finlay of Llandaff and Lord Markham

Thursday 9th February 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

The noble Baroness is quite right to point out those figures, and they are something that none of us is happy with. That is exactly what the Maternity Disparities Taskforce was set up to deal with, so I am happy to make a commitment to talk through with the noble Baroness the progress of that.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, running through the reports that my noble friend Lord Patel referred to are two strands: one is workforce, which relates to numbers and qualifications, but the other is dysfunctional teams and a failure of teamwork across the different disciplines, both within maternity services and relating to general medical services, for providing support to women, particularly those with multiple comorbidities who are then going through pregnancy and delivery. I wonder whether the Government are commissioning a specific piece of work to look at ways in which these teams can alter their behaviours internally and be supported to improve on this dysfunctional behaviour within them, which is having an adverse knock-on effect on the experience of mothers and on the clinical outcomes which, as has been said, are sometimes fatal.

[Lord Markham (Con)]

Yes, one of the Kirkup recommendations—recommendation 3, I believe—was about an improvement in teamwork, and that is what will be done under the guidance of national and regional maternity safety champions. I should say that while there is much improvement that we want to do, the overall context is a 19% decrease in stillbirth since 2010 and a 36% decrease in neonatal mortality over 24 weeks since 2010. So it is an improving picture, but it is something that we want to improve further.

PPE Expenditure

Debate between Baroness Finlay of Llandaff and Lord Markham

Wednesday 25th January 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

Right now, less than 1% of stock is held in China—to answer that question directly. In terms of cost, we are currently paying about £700,000 per day, which is why we are writing off the stock and effectively disposing of it. We have tried to donate as much of it as possible to people who want it, but we have to bite the bullet on the rest and say, “You know what? It’s no longer required so we are disposing of it as rapidly as possible.” We are bringing down those costs; we will be saving £200 million a year through that rapid disposal.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

How many health and social care staff are now off long-term sick with long Covid? What correlation has there been between long Covid and their perception that they did not have adequate PPE for the job to be done?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I will write to the noble Baroness with the statistics. I can be clear that the endeavours undertaken to buy the PPE were to make sure that we did not run out. Again, there is quite a bit of hindsight going on in saying, “Ah, we bought too much of it”, when at the time everyone was scrambling to say, “You need to buy more.” That was the result of the situation, and to try to apply hindsight now is quite wrong. They did a pretty good job regarding the amount that they bought; they got 97% of it right, which I think we would agree is a pretty good result.

Social Care: Integrated Care Systems

Debate between Baroness Finlay of Llandaff and Lord Markham

Wednesday 11th January 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

Clearly, it is early days. These were set up last summer and we must ensure that they bed in properly and learn. I am confident that that is the right approach, but, as the noble Lord mentioned, we must make sure that regulators in this space ensure that that is the case. It is probably a question for a few months’ time, when we can be sure.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, according to Hospice UK, of which I am a vice-president, up to half a million people last year had a palliative care phase before they died. In many of those cases, a failure of social care resulted in a breakdown of care in the community and hospital admission. Following on from the question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Touhig, when these patients are seriously ill or disabled children, they need access to respite care during their illness, as well as at the end, with rapidly responsive care. How are the Government monitoring whether the needs of these people are being met and that the timeframe to put in place the social care that they need does not just slip to the point of becoming a meaningless exercise?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

Those monitoring processes are in place, but to give sufficient detail, it is best that I write.

Streptococcus A: Antibiotics

Debate between Baroness Finlay of Llandaff and Lord Markham

Thursday 15th December 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

My general thinking—this is a personal view—is that the market is normally very well placed to supply these things. There was the excellent example of the vaccines, whereby it acted incredibly quickly and got Covid vaccines out as necessary. I think we are always better placed using the strength of the whole market and looking to international suppliers as well. They are always going to be able to provide the necessary medicine to a quicker timescale than our own company would.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, since the risk of invasive group A streptococcal infection is increased in the presence of other viral infections—any of them; it could even be chickenpox in children—what guidance are the Government giving to all schools on public health measures to decrease cross-infection between children and ensure parents are encouraged to keep those who might be unwell away from school, rather than sending them to school, as is the tendency, because of attendance registers?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

The noble Baroness is correct; it is the coincidence of more than one condition, particularly respiratory conditions, which causes the more extreme cases. The advice is definitely to keep children away from school if there is any question on that at all, especially as we are about to enter a period of school holidays. It is very much the view of the experts that the school holidays should flatten the curve of infections. I should also say at this point that while we are all quite correctly concerned about this, and doing everything we can regarding supply, the current levels are still lower than those we saw in 2017-18, when March and April had the normal peaks of around 2,000 a week. We are currently at around 1,200 cases a week and, as I say, we expect that to flatten out a bit with the firebreak, so to speak, of the Christmas holidays.

Bereavement Support

Debate between Baroness Finlay of Llandaff and Lord Markham

Wednesday 9th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I am afraid that I do not have any knowledge of the case in point. As I said before, I welcome the role of the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of London in producing this report, which I know all the bishops and all the Church, of whatever faith, will take directly to heart. Again, I can only repeat the title of the report: Bereavement is Everyone’s Business. The Church has a key role to play in that, as it fully understands.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, will the Government ensure that groups who are undertaking good bereavement support of children, particularly in schools, are actively engaged in cross-departmental working, given that a large number of children who are acutely bereaved do not get any support at all and often do not have the language with which to express their feelings? Will the Government also ensure that, through the Ministry of Justice, the Prison Service is actively involved? It has been estimated that about four out of five remand prisoners have had a seriously traumatic bereavement experience with no support at all, which has culminated in progressive anger resulting in criminal activity.

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I was very struck when I read the report by the breadth: for every death, five to nine people are bereaved, and often they are young people or people in prison. The truth, as we know, is that it is people across the board. That is why I particularly welcome the new policy team, which has members from the DfE and, I think, the Ministry of Justice; however, I will check, because the point the noble Baroness has made is a good one. The whole point of the policy team is that it is cross-functional, to try to ensure that we really can touch every single point where there are institutions which can help the bereaved.

Maternity and Neonatal Services

Debate between Baroness Finlay of Llandaff and Lord Markham

Tuesday 25th October 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

We all acknowledge a duty of candour. That should be fundamental to the leadership and to everyone in every trust. In this case, I was pleased to see the trust completely accept the findings and its failings and apologise unreservedly. That is something we need to make sure that all trusts do. We have the framework in place to do that but, if we do not, we will not hesitate to act further to ensure that it is.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, this alarmingly clear report flags up flawed teamworking as a major failing throughout. That also reflects previous reports. It also points out the unintended adverse consequences of using the phrase “normal births”, which should perhaps be replaced by “safe births”. Will the Government consider the problem of teamworking? Although there already is a joint group between the Royal College of Midwives and the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists, there also needs to be commissioning guidance to make sure that services are commissioned only when there is joint education and training, audit, and co-production of guidance with parents who have experience of the unit.

[Lord Markham (Con)]

Again, we agree with Dr Kirkup’s third recommendation that teamwork is vital in all this. Some £26 million has been invested in maternity teamwork training, and a core curriculum has been set up for professionals in this area. Strong leadership has been established, with two national maternity safety champions and a number of regional and local maternity safety champions. We believe that we have the framework in place for these independent working groups but, as we review these recommendations, if we find they are inadequate we will not hesitate to act further. We will bring this back to you in the four-to-six-month timeframe when we report on the recommendations.

NHS: Winter Challenges

Debate between Baroness Finlay of Llandaff and Lord Markham

Monday 10th October 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, will the Government now ask NHSE to publish the 12-hour length of stay times for emergency departments in order to be able to evaluate the efficacy of the proposed 7,000 beds and financial investment? Data shows that, at the moment, 52% of all emergency medicine trainees are already burned out. On top of that, there is the flight of nurses from emergency departments because of stress. The emergency departments are already in crisis, yet the key data on 12-hour waits there is not being collected.

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I do not have the detail on the 12-hour wait-list at this moment, but I will come back to the noble Baroness with a detailed written response.

Health and Social Care Update

Debate between Baroness Finlay of Llandaff and Lord Markham

Monday 10th October 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I thank the noble Viscount for his good luck wishes. I do not understand completely the economics of the doctor’s surgery yet. I want to get my head around that, because I understand that a surgery needs to be set up so that it can be a successful business for them and can have the proper infrastructure. I am very interested in the dentistry field as well; as I said, I have an interest in terms of my wife. But I realise that in a lot of these situations, you are asking doctors and dentists, who are trained to be excellent medics, to effectively set up their own business. That is a quite different thing and demands quite different skill sets. I believe that we need to have a package of support to help them in this respect. As part of that, we need to understand exactly what funding can be used and whether it gives them the headroom—for want of a better word—to allow them to do those elements and have the support staff in the numbers they need. Understanding further this area is on my to-do list, and I would like to get back to the noble Viscount as soon as I can.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

I also welcome the Minister to his post, which I think is probably one of the trickiest ministerial posts in government. I declare that I am a registered medical practitioner and remain on the clinical register. I would like to briefly return to the question of workforce. We have spoken about doctors, dentists and nurses; in addition, there are allied health professionals. I should state here that I am president of the Chartered Society of Physiotherapy.

I have come across a lot of professionals who have had time working abroad, for one reason or another, and who have remained clinically up to date but find it extremely difficult to get back on to the register. I have also had conversations with retired professionals who have been allowed to be reregistered under the Covid regulations but find that, because they do not have a responsible officer, it is extremely expensive for them to undertake the processes to come back on the register.

In addition, I have also had conversations with refugees. We have a lot of refugee doctors, dentists, nurses and allied health professionals who currently are completely unable to work because they have not gone through the different exam processes—yet all the time they are not working, they are losing some of their clinical skills. Will the Minister meet with me, because I think there are some ways, in conjunction with the registration bodies, that we could possibly create a provisional registration category to allow these people’s skills to be used rapidly for the good of the NHS, rather than waiting the several years it would take them to get through the different hurdles laid before them?

As part of that, these clinicians—particularly doctors and nurses—could then have input into 111, where we know that currently only 40% of calls have a clinical input. The Royal College of Emergency Medicine has calculated that this figure needs to be 65% of all calls in order to decrease the demand on A&E departments from calls to 111. Will the Minister meet with me fairly urgently? It seems a waste to have people who want to get back on the register but, for many reasons, cannot.

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, for those excellent points. I have to declare a further interest: my wife is not only a dentist, she is a dentist originally from the Dominican Republic who practised in Spain for 20 years before coming here. So many of the excellent points the noble Baroness made are well recognised here. I am in the market for good ideas, so I will meet with the noble Baroness with pleasure to understand and discuss some of the ideas she spoke about.