Nationality, Immigration and Asylum Act 2002 (Juxtaposed Controls) (Amendment) (No. 2) Order

Debate between Baroness Finlay of Llandaff and Baroness Smith of Basildon

Thursday 24th June 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

My Lords, there is an early opportunity, at the beginning of a Session, to raise these issues. As noble Lords will be aware, they have come up before. I want to make a brief comment and offer a way forward that I think may be helpful to both the Government and the House.

First, we have only to look at the previous Session of Parliament and read the reports of the Constitution Committee, the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee and the Delegated Powers Committee to see that they all raised concerns about the Government’s overreliance on secondary legislation and the use of skeleton Bills. They commented that the Government’s reliance on secondary legislation has grown markedly in recent years. The Constitution Committee said:

“Skeleton Bills inhibit parliamentary scrutiny and we find it difficult to envisage any circumstances in which their use is acceptable”.


There are examples from the previous Session. The noble Baroness was involved with the then Medicines and Medical Devices Bill, which was a particular issue, and there was also, again, immigration legislation from the Home Office.

The point made by the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, is slightly different, because he asked questions in Committee during the debate on a statutory instrument, to which the Minister was unable to respond. She is still unable to respond to him even at this stage when we are being asked to vote on that order.

I can recall an instance when a former Home Office Minister, in response to me, agreed not to bring something forward until they had answered the questions that I had asked, because they were unable to answer them in Committee. The House may want to consider that idea in future because it is best to have answers to questions before we are asked to vote.

It is inadequate to have an early debate on revised legislation. However, it would help—I have raised this idea before with the Government, and I hope that the Minister will take it back if she cannot give me an answer today—if the Government could commit to ensuring that, although there may be an occasional exception, draft SIs are published prior to the Report stage of legislation going through. That would give this House an opportunity to look at an SI while discussing the legislation, which would then give us an opportunity to scrutinise it better. I would be happy to discuss this further with the Government. The situation at present is not always, but too often, unacceptable— but there is a way forward that might help both the Government and your Lordships’ House.

[The Deputy Speaker (Baroness Finlay of Llandaff) (CB)]

Does the Minister wish to reply? I call the Minister.

Criminal Justice and Police Act 2001 (Amendment) Order 2013

Debate between Baroness Finlay of Llandaff and Baroness Smith of Basildon

Monday 31st March 2014 Grand Committee

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, I, too, must declare an interest, having been on the sub-committee looking at khat, when we heard a very different story because, as the Minister has indeed set out, there are no medicinal uses for it. The evidence that the UK is becoming potentially a route and hub for distribution is particularly worrying, as is the effect within those communities on home life and the domestic instability that has occurred. I can understand why there is a push to put this legislation forward because there is a need to say that the drug is not safe and recreational in the ordinary sense, and that there are harms associated with it due to its psychoactive nature.

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

My Lords, over a number of years, successive Governments have looked at banning khat, and the evidence for doing so is less robust than that for ketamine. That is clear from the evidence base in the Explanatory Memorandum and the Government’s assessment of the options. We agree with the Home Secretary’s analysis that the arguments are finely balanced—a point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay—and consider that the benefits of a ban could outweigh the risks. However, we seek a number of assurances from the Government that are needed before that is clear.

We should look at the reasons for considering a ban and the risks of such a ban. The reasons for considering a ban are, first, the social and possible health harms associated with the drug. My understanding is that khat is not easily comparable with other drugs because it is consumed almost entirely within the diaspora of the Horn of Africa countries: namely, Somalia, Yemen, Ethiopia and Kenya. Overall just 0.2% of the UK population have used khat, but some 50% of Somali males are thought to be users, and up to 10% of them are daily users. This makes it very hard to separate the social harms of khat from wider social issues faced by the Somali community, and to a lesser extent the Yemeni and Ethiopian communities. That said, we have received clear representations from within the Somali community about the problems of khat. In her report, the Home Secretary cited the support of 32 groups representing the Somali community. The support for a ban from within the Somali community is clearly articulated in the report on banning khat, removing segregation and promoting integration, which looks at the community perspective and to which some 27 groups are signatories.

The range of social harms with which khat has been associated include low-level public disorder, and there are claims that khat is linked with some criminal behaviour. UK Somali women often cite excessive expenditure on khat for the diversion of household funds as a major cause of marital tension and family breakdowns. It can also be linked with idleness and benefit dependency, and seems to be a key factor in unemployment, low attainment and social exclusion. However, neither the ACMD nor the Home Office review has been able to isolate khat as the cause of those phenomena, because they all seem to be specific to specific cultures. For example, the phenomena are seen in the Somali communities that use khat but not in the Yemeni ones. Therefore, it appears that khat use, and possible dependency, is part of a cycle of behaviour that is extremely damaging, and which leads to a range of social problems and to social exclusion.

Khat has also been linked to health harms, including liver toxicity, as the Minister mentioned, and tooth loss, as well as to health issues that relate to the manner in which it is consumed. More seriously, it has been linked to depression, paranoia and even psychosis, and is cited as a key reason for higher than average acute mental health problems in the Somali community. However, as with all social harms, it is hard to isolate khat from wider factors that impact particularly on the Somali community, such as social deprivation. Therefore we are not able to say that khat is the direct cause of those problems, although it seems that it exacerbates them.

If we look at paragraph 4.3 on page 1 of the Explanatory Memorandum, we see that:

“The ACMD advises that there is no robust evidence to show a direct causal link to adverse medical effects, other than a small number of reports of an association between khat use and significant liver toxicity. It also finds some of the adverse outcomes are associated with khat use i.e. a complex interaction of khat with other factors to produce the outcome, but that there is no evidence that it is directly caused by khat use. The ACMD further advises that, from the evidence on societal harms, it is often difficult to disentangle whether khat is the source of community problems or whether, to some extent, its prevalence and use is symptomatic of the problems for some individuals and groups within that community”.

To understand the difficulties, I turn to pages 9 and 10 of the impact assessment, under the heading, “Evidence Base”, which states:

“Anecotal evidence reported from communities in several UK cities link khat consumption with a wide range of social harms. Research into these concerns has been undertaken but no robust evidence has been found which demonstrates a causal link between khat consumption and any of the harms indicated”.

The Home Secretary makes clear in her Written Statement to Parliament, which is Appendix A of the impact assessment, that although the ACMD report,

“recommended that khat should not be controlled, the ACMD acknowledges that there is an absence of robust evidence in a number of areas and that there are broader factors for the Government to consider when making its decision. The decision to bring khat under control is finely balanced and takes into account the expert scientific advice and these broader concerns”.—[Official Report, Commons, 3/7/13; col. 56WS.]

Therefore we accept that this is finely balanced and that the Home Secretary’s decision takes broader factors into account other than the medical or scientific.

We also have to examine the risks of banning khat. In assessing risks, we have to consider the risk of the UK becoming a hub for illegal exports to other EU countries and the US, which have already implemented bans—a point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay. That phenomenon has been identified in Sweden and in the Netherlands, but is there any evidence that that is happening here in the UK? The khat ban was first announced in July last year, shortly after the Netherlands ban had come into force. Has any evidence emerged since it was first announced? Khat imports into the UK were falling until last year; has there been a change in pattern since the announcement?

When we look at the impact assessment, that risk is not included as a non-monetised benefit. Neither is any impact on law enforcement agencies considered, other than a reference under “Risks”, on page 16, that enforcement costs may be high initially, as:

“Evidence from other countries which have controlled khat suggests that levels of demand may not reduce immediately after the ban comes into effect, if at all. This could mean that if offenders are caught, enforcement costs may be higher soon after the ban though they may fall afterwards”.

I did not find that kind of figure in the impact assessment. It is also at odds with the expectations under the heading “Justice” on page 19 of the impact assessment,

“that the khat industry will ‘self-regulate’”,

and that legislation to ban khat would have,

“a minimal impact on the criminal justice system”.

However, there is a significant risk that it could damage community relations. Notwithstanding the support for a ban, as quoted above, the Home Office report Perceptions of the Social Harms Associated with Khat Use makes it clear that khat use is both common and widely accepted within the Somali, Yemeni and Ethiopian communities, so to ban khat would be to criminalise an established and accepted social practice. The impact of that has to be fully understood and handled carefully. The Home Office report also signifies that for many khat use is a key cultural signifier and, often, a deliberate attempt to identify with the wider diaspora.

I turn to the equality assessment. Was this signed off by the Minister, or should it have been signed by a Minister? It does not appear to have been but he might be able to give further advice on that. If so, which Minister has signed it off? The escalation framework, referred to by the Minister, is very important and is laid out in the annex. Apparently, it was decided as part of the review of stop and search. Is the rest of that review also available? It is clear that without proper policing measures this could significantly damage community relations for the Somali and Yemeni communities. That will impact on the Prevent agenda, so it would be helpful to know from the noble Lord whether there were discussions with those responsible for that agenda on what their considerations were of how this could be managed. The point is that it is not clear cut.

We have four issues that we wish to raise with the Government, and which we consider would have to be done if they were to proceed with a ban. There must be regulations and some moves taken to ensure that it is effective and properly monitored. Consideration should also be given to the significant risks.

First, we seek a commitment from the Government to keep this matter under review. Specifically, we would need to see a review after 12 months that looked at the impact of reclassification, and the impact on organised crime and community relations. We would want that to include the monitoring framework outlined by the Home Affairs Select Committee in, I think, the second recommendation of its report. We understand that the Government are collecting some of that information in relation to drugs. However, that is not enough because khat is unique among drugs in that it is focused in the Somali and Yemeni communities. Some specific data will need to be collected on community relations and a separate review into khat should be published. The kinds of things we would be looking at in order to fully understand the implications of that decision are on-street stop and searches, and the numbers of arrests and out-of-court disposals.

Secondly, there are issues around policing. Because khat is highly prevalent in the Somali and Yemeni communities, the introduction of a ban on khat would allow any Somali or Yemeni male to be subject to stop and search. This causes enormous concern in those communities. It could have a detrimental effect on community relations and, in turn, undermine the Prevent agenda, as I have mentioned. This is a particular risk in the Somali community, where khat is a social drug and is linked to numerous businesses including cafes and community centres. The policing will need to be sensitive to that risk and we would want to see a specific policing strategy, agreed by the ACPO leads for drugs and the Prevent agenda. This plan would have to be in force before the ban itself is enforced. I understand the escalation agenda and I welcome it, but we need to have that policing plan in place before any ban is enforced.

I have two more points. One is on health and education. There has to be a programme of engagement and support for Somali communities to educate them about the dangers of drugs and alcohol. What we do not want to see in these communities is khat being replaced with alternative drugs or alcohol, which leads to further problems. A World Health Organisation report referred to that issue as being a specific risk in the banning of khat; so it is an issue which has to be taken seriously.