Victims and Prisoners Bill

Debate between Baroness Finlay of Llandaff and Baroness Hamwee

Committee stage
Wednesday 24th January 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hamwee (LD)]

My Lords, I of course understand the point that the Minister is making—procedures in other countries and what is available in other countries by way of support are different—but should that stop us requiring part of the Government, the organisation in this country which has immediate, close responsibility, to take on a role of proper signposting, which may be to equivalent services? Partly, it is interpreting, but it is obvious that there is a lacuna here.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

If there has been a homicide abroad and those families are living here, there is a real danger that the message will be that the Government think that that homicide does not matter as much as a homicide that happened here. The Government might say that they do not have the resources. I pointed out that it is about 80 homicides per year—the numbers are not huge—but those people who are so severely traumatised, retraumatised and carry on being further damaged by the experience often become enormous consumers of resources because of mental health services, because they are unable to work and so on, and eventually they may need benefits. There are all kinds of things that they may need. It is a false economy to look at it in terms of resources to the FCDO. I hope that the Minister will meet me and others to discuss ways that the victims’ code could be asterisked where there are things that may not be as appropriate if the homicide occurred here, but it would say that the lives of British citizens are of equal value wherever they are in the world and that whether it was a terrorist attack, a homicide here or a homicide overseas, those lives are of equal value.

Immigration and Social Security Co-ordination (EU Withdrawal) Bill

Debate between Baroness Finlay of Llandaff and Baroness Hamwee

Report: 2nd sitting (Hansard - continued) & Report stage & Report: 2nd sitting (Hansard - continued): House of Lords
Monday 5th October 2020 Lords Chamber

[The Deputy Speaker (Baroness Finlay of Llandaff) (CB)]

As the noble Baroness, Lady Whitaker, has been unable to be contacted, I now call the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee.

[Baroness Hamwee (LD)]

My Lords, I put my name to the amendment on behalf of these Benches. To be saying at this stage—three months from the end of the transition period and very close to the practicable end date of the negotiations—that our draft agreement is still on the table, as was said at the previous stage, feels like a denial of reality, and I follow the noble Lord, Lord Kerr, in that comment. Like the noble Lord, Lord Randall, I will be interested to know the up-to-date position.

Certainly a prudent Government would look for a mechanism to plug the gap, as the noble Baroness, Lady Primarolo, said, in case the draft slips off the table or is just not picked up—and this is the mechanism. I am very glad to support it, as I did in Committee when I too had an amendment on family reunion. At that stage, the Minister said that the Government had acted in good faith and that she hoped that the EU would do the same. Like the noble Lord, Lord Dubs, I cannot say that I regard the draft agreement as adequate. The principal obligations are not obligations—they are discretionary—but, whoever should take the blame for the stalemate, we must not let asylum seekers be the losers by being caught in the middle. They are not illegal, not unless and until their claim is refused.

This is likely not to be the first time that I will be taking a different view from the Minister about pull factors, especially when the push factors are so significant.

Of course we agree on the importance of safe and legal routes. That is the most important thing. Our view is that what is safest is to provide legal routes and deprive criminals of the opportunity to exploit people. It may be that our routes to that differ somewhat—perhaps they are not the means that the Home Secretary is considering—but that is not really for today. As has been said, our current rules are inadequate. The Government refer to that well-known paragraph 319X of the rules as providing the route that allows children to join relatives recognised as refugees, but the scope is very narrow, there are many restrictions and substantial fees are payable. As I understand it, the data does not separate out the categories or the basis of application, and those who take that route are included in the Home Office’s figures with other routes. Including all those routes, there were only 30 successful applications in 2018 and 54 in 2019. It is certainly not an adequate substitute for a successfully negotiated agreement on family reunion or a change in the UK’s rules, at least until an agreement or agreements are negotiated, as the amendment provides.

Working with the UNHCR and resettling people from the Middle East is not something we want to see replaced. The noble Lord, Lord Judd, the noble Baroness, Lady Lister, and others referred to the numbers in this plight across the world. As the noble Lord, Lord Dubs, said, we cannot take everyone but we can play our part. It seems to us that it is a policy decision for the Government whether to make it an “and” rather than an alternative.

Immigration and Social Security Co-ordination (EU Withdrawal) Bill

Debate between Baroness Finlay of Llandaff and Baroness Hamwee

Committee stage & Committee: 4th sitting (Hansard) & Committee: 4th sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 16th September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hamwee (LD) [V]]

My Lords, the comprehensive improvement plan is due this month, and the first day of Report on this Bill is the last day of this month. I had made a note, before the Minister said it, that Wendy Williams herself talked about the importance of not rushing the change, but I think we can look forward to the review before—albeit immediately before—we start on Report. I accept of course that changing a culture, like redirecting an oil tanker, is a long process. Indeed, changing culture is something that should go on and on; it is necessary that it should always be a current issue.

The noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, talked about the importance of not getting the policy wrong; it is about both policy and practice. The obvious read-across from the experience of the Windrush generation is indeed the documentation, as my noble friend mentioned. Recommendations are good, but they will only be evidenced by actions. As the Minister has just acknowledged, the lessons learned from the unhappy experience of Windrush are transferrable. “Fairness” and “humanity”, she said; those are very good last words for today—they are very good words for always. On that note, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness Finlay of Llandaff) (CB)]

My Lords, before we proceed to that point, I have a request to speak from the noble Baroness, Lady Lister of Burtersett.