Housing and Planning Bill
Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Lord Kennedy of Southwark
Lord Kennedy of Southwark
My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for her comments and for moving this amendment. As other noble Lords have said, this has come a long way and we welcome that, but in some ways it has not gone far enough. I thank the Government and noble Baroness for what she has proposed today. It would be helpful when the noble Baroness responds if she can repeat her remarks about disabled people and elderly people. I think I was distracted and did not quite hear what she said.
Baroness Evans of Bowes Park
I said that this would enable councils to consider appropriate provision for households where there is someone with a disability or a long-term illness, older people and those who provide long-term care for a person in this situation.
I barely dare say to the noble Baroness, Lady Lister, that I understand the equality impact assessment will be available in due course. I hope that she does not have to return and quote the promise again when we come back to this. We will reflect on her comments. As I say, I am sorry—that is all I can say at this stage.
Housing and Planning Bill
Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Lord Kennedy of Southwark
Lord Kennedy of Southwark
My Lords, this issue was debated during consideration in Committee. I support the devolution of power to local communities and we should seek to achieve it wherever possible. I have advised the House before that I am a councillor in the London Borough of Lewisham and a member of the planning committee—I am going there tomorrow night. The ward which I represent is Crofton Park, where we are in the process of developing a neighbourhood plan. As noble Lords have said, that is not an easy process. It takes quite a long time and we are hopeful of getting to a point where we can put it to the vote in a ballot of local residents. But it is a complicated matter and a lot of work needs to be done. It is right that communities have a direct say in developments in their area, and the amendment provides a mechanism for a limited right of appeal in certain circumstances. The right of appeal would apply only to parish councils and neighbourhood forums whose plans progress to formal submission to the local authority.
We need to strike the right balance here, and that is often difficult to achieve. It could be suggested that objections could be raised just to stop developments, which is a fair point, but the amendment allows for appeals only in a fairly limited range of circumstances, at the risk of costs being awarded by a planning inspector if anyone made a vexatious appeal. The amendment is an attempt to strike the right balance. I am happy to support it, but I also accept the points made by the noble Lord, Lord Best, and the noble Earl, Lord Lytton.
Baroness Evans of Bowes Park
My Lords, Amendment 102ZA has enabled us to revisit our discussion on a proposed community right to appeal where there is an emerging or made neighbourhood plan, and I thank all noble Lords who have contributed today. Although I appreciate the intention behind the amendment, I cannot accept it and will explain why.
We have a long-established and much-valued right of appeal. It recognises that the planning system acts as a control on how an individual may use their land. This existing right of appeal serves an important purpose—to compensate for the removal of the individual’s right to develop—and there is no need to change this fundamental principle. That is because communities are integral to and involved in the whole planning process. They are consulted on the preparation of the local plan for their area from the earliest stages, through to making representations to be considered at the independent examination. The right of every community to produce a neighbourhood plan takes this further, allowing communities to set their own planning policies for the area. Those are the basis for decisions on planning applications and guide how the neighbourhood develops.
Importantly, communities can make representations on individual planning applications and appeals, and the Bill and new regulations will provide neighbourhood forums with the right to request notification of applications in their area, alongside being statutory consultees on their area’s local plan. The views of the community are considered at every stage in the decision-making process. Given all the opportunities that already exist, the Government do not believe that a community right of appeal is necessary.
It cannot be right for development that secures planning permission to be delayed and uncertainty created at the last minute by a community right of appeal. The amendment would serve only to discourage people from getting involved in the planning process earlier, or lead to repeated consideration of issues raised and addressed during the planning application process.
To reinforce what I said in Committee, decisions on planning applications must be made in accordance with the development plan, unless material considerations indicate otherwise. A made neighbourhood plan is part of the development plan and therefore already a powerful tool that must be the starting point for the authority’s decisions on applications. National policy is very clear: proposals that conflict with a neighbourhood plan that has been brought into force should not normally be approved.
We have also made it clear that an emerging neighbourhood plan can be a material consideration in planning decisions, including where there is a lack of five-year housing land supply in the local authority area. Decision-takers may give weight to relevant policies in emerging plans according to the stage that the emerging plan has reached, the extent to which there are unresolved objections, and the degree of consistency with the National Planning Policy Framework. The extent of local support should also be taken into account. I also remind the House that in January, we announced that for a further six months, the Secretary of State’s criteria to recover and decide planning appeals would continue to include housing proposals in those areas where there is a made or submitted neighbourhood plan.
We have a planning system that balances competing demands for growth and protection. We have asked local planning authorities to balance these competing considerations to deliver sustainable development. We must now allow them get on with the job. For these reasons, I hope that noble Lords will not press their amendments.
Housing and Planning Bill
Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Lord Kennedy of Southwark
Lord Kennedy of Southwark
We may need to carry this on outside the Chamber. That is not a taxpayer subsidy: the money is coming from local authorities.
Baroness Evans of Bowes Park
My Lords, I thank the noble Lords, Lord Bassam, Lord Beecham, Lord Kennedy, Lord Watson and Lord Kerslake, and my noble friend Lord Porter, for their amendments. Turning first to Amendment 80, it would ensure that new fixed-term tenancies may have a longer term of 10 years in all cases.
As I said, we listened carefully in Committee, and I have found this further discussion at Report useful. A household’s circumstances can change considerably in 10 years, which is why the Government remain convinced that a maximum of five years should be the norm for most fixed-term tenancies. Indeed, 70% of flexible tenancies currently given by local authorities are five years in length. However, we recognise that there may well be situations in which longer-term tenancies are appropriate for tenants who have particular needs—which is why, as I said, we will bring forward an amendment at Third Reading to enable local authorities to grant longer-term tenancies of up to 10 years in certain circumstances. In answer to the question of the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, in the previous debate, I can say that this will include people with disabilities. We will be looking at other categories, and they will be in regulations which will be subject to the affirmative procedure, so there will be an opportunity to discuss the matter further, and we will of course have ongoing discussions in the run-up to Third Reading.
Baroness Evans of Bowes Park
My Lords, we are acutely aware of the timing issues, so yes, I give that assurance. I fear that it may mean that we will be working more closely together over the coming days than we have been already.
Lord Kennedy of Southwark
We have had a wonderful time, have we not? I thank everyone who has spoken in this short debate. I am hopeful about what we will see from the Government in the next few days; we can all agree that next week, we get to Third Reading. With that, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Housing and Planning Bill
Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Lord Kennedy of Southwark
Lord Kennedy of Southwark
My Lords, Clause 37 will require the Secretary of State to give every local authority in England access to information in the database of rogue landlords, which is fine as far as it goes. Amendment 22 in my name and those of the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville, and the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, would put a requirement on every local authority for a tenant to also have access to that list. This is a sensible provision as these prospective tenants are the people who need to be aware who the rogue landlords are so that they can make an informed choice when seeking rented accommodation. The noble Baroness made that point in her contribution.
Of course, we are talking about only England in this clause, but there is nothing to stop rogue landlords operating elsewhere in the United Kingdom. Perhaps when the noble Baroness, Lady Evans of Bowes Park, responds she can tell us, notwithstanding the amendment, how the information will be disseminated beyond England and how it will be handled by the devolved institutions, because you will not be a rogue landlord in England and a model landlord in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland at the same time if you have properties there.
Amendments 23 and 24 would remove the requirement for anonymity when the information is used for research purposes. This is important as it can help to identify trends and patterns that may need to be addressed by the Government. The anonymity afforded here risks something being missed. Amendment 25 to the same clause would make it clear that the information can be used for the protection of tenants. If that is not the purpose of this whole part of the Bill, then what is its purpose?
The final amendment in this group, in my name and that of my noble friend Lord Beecham, would enable a housing authority not to grant a house in multiple occupation licence to someone on the database of rogue landlords. As we are all aware, occupants of HMO properties are often the most vulnerable of tenants. This seeks to afford some protection where the property is of sufficient size and number of people to require an HMO licence. I hope that the Government Front Bench can see the intent behind these amendments—to protect tenants—and will give the House a positive response.
Baroness Evans of Bowes Park
My Lords, during the passage of the Bill we have debated extensively the question of who shall have access to the database, in which form and for what purposes. The noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, and the noble Lords, Lord Shipley and Lord Kennedy, have sought, through Amendments 22 to 25, to require that tenants or potential tenants should have access to the database, that the Secretary of State should be able to disclose information held in non-anonymised form, and that local authorities may use the information held on the database for the protection of tenants.
Giving tenants, or potential tenants, access to the database would be fine if its purpose was to blacklist landlords and to drive them out of business, but that is not its purpose. The proposed database is primarily for the purpose of ensuring that those landlords and property agents who have committed banning order offences, or who have received two or more civil penalties as an alternative to prosecution for such offences, can be monitored by local authorities to ensure future compliance with the law, and, where necessary, those authorities can target enforcement against them. The database will help local authorities drive up standards in their areas and ensure that those landlords entered on to it raise their game so that their properties are safe and well managed for the benefit of tenants.
As with penalty points on a driving licence, a person will remain on the database for a specified period—a minimum of two years. Also as with someone who has incurred penalty points, continuing to breach the law may result in a ban. While it is important, as I said, that people who commit banning order offences should be liable to be monitored through their entry on to the database, this does not mean that the public at large should have a right to know about those offences if they are not so serious as to warrant the local authority immediately obtaining a banning order. Again, there is an analogy with driving offences because there is no right for the public at large to know whether a person has received penalty points on their licence. Indeed, allowing such access to the database would arguably breach the landlord’s human rights by making sensitive personal information about their convictions publicly available and effectively banning them from operating without an independent tribunal determining whether they should be banned.
Amendment 26 in the names of the noble Lords, Lord Kennedy and Lord Beecham, is unnecessary. Under existing provisions for HMOs, which we are proposing to strengthen through Part 5 of the Bill, a local authority can grant a licence only if it is satisfied that the proposed licence holder is a fit and proper person. In doing so, it must have regard to, among other matters, whether the applicant has contravened housing law or been convicted of certain criminal offences such as those relating to violence, drugs or fraud. These offences that the authority must have regard to will likely be banning order offences for which a person can be entered on the database. It follows that a person who has been entered on to the database could be refused an HMO licence.
I should make it clear that just because a landlord has a conviction or received financial penalties under the new regime that will not automatically mean that they are an unfit person and not able to hold an HMO licence. It would, of course, depend on the nature of the offence, the circumstances surrounding it and whether the landlord was a prolific offender. Indeed, if the conviction or financial penalty was in respect of a minor infringement which had subsequently been put right, it would be disproportionate to refuse that person an HMO licence.
There is no blanket rule excluding persons who have criminal convictions or received financial penalties from holding HMO licences. It will depend on the individual circumstances of the case. However, this amendment would introduce such a blanket rule, even though such a person could continue to operate other types of private rented properties as the database is not a register of banned persons. Provisions are made in the Bill already to deal with HMOs operated by people subject to banning orders, namely that neither they nor any agent may hold such a licence. That is of course right because such a person has been banned from operating as a residential landlord.
As I have said, local authorities will be able to use the information on the database for the protection of tenants by using it to assist with exercising their functions under the Housing Act 2004 and to investigate contraventions of housing law and promote compliance with such law. In particular, authorities can use the information held to decide whether to apply for a banning order against a person entered on the database, whether or not he or she holds an HMO licence. It will then be for local authorities to decide whether to publicise information on those subject to banning orders in their local area, considering whether such publication can be justified as the most proportionate means of ensuring that banning orders are successfully enforced and that tenants in the area are properly protected.
These amendments would effectively result in many cases of landlords being put out of business, or at least suffering harmful reputations that would make trading more difficult, without any case being made out by the local authority to an independent tribunal to stop them trading through the banning order procedure. I hope that, with that explanation, noble Lords will not press their amendments.
On the question from the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, about how information on the database will be disseminated to devolved Administrations, we will consider taking powers to facilitate this and will explore that further with the devolved Administrations.
Lord Kennedy of Southwark
I thank the Minister. I had only just thought of that. Clearly, where somebody can operate across other parts of the United Kingdom, if they will be a rogue in England they will be a rogue elsewhere. It is an issue that needs to be looked at.
Lord Kennedy of Southwark
My Lords, we are supportive of both Amendments 27 and 28 in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville. Amendment 27 would require the Secretary of State to issue a code of practice for the letting and management of private rented sector housing in England. As often with legislation, you are legislating to deal with the end of the market that wants to cut a few corners. The fact of the matter is that the overwhelming majority of private sector landlords do a very good job and provide tenants with a better choice, better management standards and better homes than the code would allow for. However, the proposed code would afford an additional layer of protection and help to lift up those landlords who are not always the best in the business and raise standards generally. The list of organisations is comprehensive in nature and would allow the Secretary of State the flexibility though proposed new paragraph 3(j) to consult “other persons or organisations” as he considers appropriate, which is sensible as organisations come and go, and needs and requirements change.
Amendment 28 would require the Secretary of State to keep and publish a register of letting agents. This, again, is a very welcome move and would bring a sensible and proportionate measure to this part of the housing market by requiring a register to be maintained. These agents facilitate agreements between landlords and tenants. There is a proper role for local authorities in maintaining the register as they will be aware who is operating in their area. The amendment prescribes what information is to be held on the register. Proposed new subsection (8) of the amendment would allow the Secretary of State to,
“make further provision about the register”.
It is a sensible move to take this power. I hope that the noble Baroness, Lady Evans of Bowes Park, will accept the amendment. However, if she will not, I hope that she will explain carefully to the House why that is the case.
Baroness Evans of Bowes Park
I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, and other noble Lords who have contributed to this short debate. If enacted, Amendment 27 would require the Secretary of State to issue a code of practice for the letting and management of private rented sector housing in England. A code to promote best practice in the letting and management of private rented sector housing in England already exists. A cross-sector code for the letting and management of private rented sector housing in England was originally published in September 2014. A wide range of industry members was involved, including all the stakeholders referenced in the noble Baroness’s amendment. The department also contributed to the wider stakeholder consultation and Brandon Lewis, Minister of State for Housing and Planning, provided the foreword. Although the code does not currently have statutory force, which would mean that a court or tribunal would have to take it into account when determining relevant cases, in practice, a court or tribunal would already be likely to take the contents of the code into account, where relevant. The code has been in operation for a year and a half, and was last updated in July 2015. The Government are continuing to work with industry to monitor the effectiveness of the code and organise any necessary revisions to ensure that it is relevant and remains up to date. In addition, since October 2014, all letting and property management agents have been required to join a redress scheme, offering a clear route for consumers to pursue complaints. This, in conjunction with the code, protects the consumer and supports good agents.
Amendment 28 seeks to introduce a mandatory national register for all letting agents in England that would be maintained and operated by the relevant local authority. As the noble Lord said, the vast majority of letting agents provide a good service to tenants and landlords and the Government do not believe that a mandatory register is the answer to tackle a minority of irresponsible agents. As my noble friend Lady Gardner said, the Government believe that this could add excessive red tape to the sector which would push up the cost of rents and reduce choice. The Government believe that providing routes for redress and ensuring full transparency is the best approach by giving consumers the information they want and supporting good letting agents. As I mentioned, that is why we recently required all agents to join a redress scheme and prominently display a breakdown of their fees and statements about redress and client money protection. This allows landlords and tenants to vote with their feet when looking to let or rent a property. Each redress scheme also displays a list of members, fully accessible to the public, on its website. What is also important is to help local authorities focus their enforcement action on the rogue agents who knowingly flout their responsibilities and leave the majority of good agents to get on with running their business. As we have just discussed, that is why we plan to introduce a database of rogue property agents and landlords.
In addition, we are also including provisions to allow local authorities to issue civil penalty notices of up to £30,000 as an alternative to prosecution for certain housing offences, which will support their capability to enforce action on rogue agents.
In response to the question from my noble friend Lady Gardner about letting agency fees, from May 2015 letting agents have been required to publish a full tariff of their fees on their websites and in their offices. Anyone who does not comply will face a fine of up to £5,000. Given the commitments I have mentioned and the action that we have already taken that I have outlined, I hope that these amendments will not be pressed.
Baroness Evans of Bowes Park
I will obviously respond to the electrical safety issue in due course. We have put down amendments, and I hope I will be able to address those in a few minutes.
As I have said, we are strengthening the measures already in place by taking forward further measures in the Bill that will protect tenants and ensure that landlords provide good-quality, safe accommodation. I hope in the light of these comments that the noble Lord will withdraw his amendment.
Lord Kennedy of Southwark
My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for her response, although I feel that it is woefully inadequate. I do not see why the Government are resisting the amendment. It is just not good enough to say that tenants in those circumstances should be able to rely on their local authority. Local authorities are struggling to meet their statutory responsibilities in this respect, and we should protect tenants from rogues who abuse them by not providing a home fit for human habitation. The noble Lord, Lord Polak, completely missed the point. I do not know whether he has ever been elected to a local authority; I am happy to welcome him to Lewisham to look at what we do there and see the difficulties that we confront every day in dealing with these issues. In the circumstances, it is right that we test the opinion of the House tonight.
Housing and Planning Bill
Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Lord Kennedy of Southwark
Lord Kennedy of Southwark
My Lords, as I have told the House many times before, I am a local councillor in Lewisham. I represent the ward of Crofton Park.
As I have mentioned before, we are in the process of developing our own neighbourhood plan by setting up a neighbourhood forum and taking a much more proactive role in how our local community develops. We are doing this using the powers in the Localism Act 2011. I agree with the comments made previously and in this debate about how that has been a very useful exercise and has certainly engaged with the local community. I am very supportive of that. We are seeking to produce a local script. We will get our documents together for our local community and we hope to have a referendum to get it approved within the next 18 months.
The amendment proposed by the noble Baroness, Lady Parminter, allows for an appeal by a parish council or a neighbourhood forum to the Secretary of State if the local authority’s decision goes against the policies in the approved local plan. Amendment 101BGA seeks to do something similar but wider. I am interested in the Government’s response, because there is a conflict between what the Government are doing in this Bill and what the Localism Act says. Can the Minister deal with that? We need a proper balance; in that regard, I agree with the points made by the noble Lords, Lord Greaves and Lord True. We have to move on, not continue to go backwards and forwards. Something needs to happen here. I will leave my remarks there, but when the Minister responds I may ask one or two questions.
Baroness Evans of Bowes Park
My Lords, Amendments 88A and 101BGA propose a community right to appeal in various circumstances. The existing right of appeal recognises that, in practice, the planning system acts as a control on how an individual may use their land. As a result, the Government believe it is right that an applicant has the option of an impartial appeal against the refusal of planning permission. This existing right of appeal compensates for the removal of the individual’s right to develop.
The planning system, however, already provides ample opportunity where the community wishes to express a view on a planning matter, and the Government place great importance on community involvement in the planning system at every stage of the process. Communities have statutory rights to become involved in the preparation of the local plan for their area, through which they can influence development. As we have heard, the local community can also come together to produce a neighbourhood plan, which sets out how the community wants to see its neighbourhood develop. On the question of the noble Baroness, Lady Parminter, about progress, out of the 1,800 communities that have started, 400 draft plans have been published for consultation and of these 300 have been submitted for examination and more than 120 have been “made”—that is, brought into force.
These plans form the basis for decisions on planning applications. We are also proposing more powers for neighbourhood forums in the Bill: first, by allowing them to request that they are notified of applications in their area and, secondly, through existing powers to make neighbourhood forums statutory consultees on the local plan for the area. In addition, communities are able to make representations on individual planning applications, including major planning applications. Our proposals for “permission in principle”, which are contained in the Bill, include community consultation before a decision is made, upholding our principle of community involvement. We believe that the views of the community are considered at every stage in the decision-making process.
The Government do not believe that a community right of appeal is necessary as there are already plenty of opportunities to have a say on local planning issues, as the amendments acknowledge. It would be wrong for development to be delayed and uncertainty created at the last minute with a community right of appeal. These amendments would serve only to repeat issues that were raised and addressed during the planning application process. The law is very clear that decisions on planning applications must be made in accordance with the development plan, unless material considerations indicate otherwise. A made neighbourhood plan is therefore a powerful tool that must be the starting point for authorities’ decisions on applications.
To ensure that the significance of neighbourhood plans is absolutely clear, we issued further guidance on decision-making last month. This highlights national policy that states,
“where a planning application conflicts with a neighbourhood plan that has been brought into force, planning permission should not normally be granted”.
We also have clear national policy on the weight that can be given to emerging neighbourhood plans. This weight can be significant. The National Planning Policy Framework explains that the weight will vary depending on the stage of preparation that the plan has reached, any unresolved objections to it, and consistency within the framework.
The noble Lord, Lord Best, raised the issue of developers being able to intervene in the neighbourhood planning process by putting in applications throughout. We do not believe that it would be right to stop development programmes coming forward at any time, as this would impact on local businesses, which need to invest, and local people, who need homes. However, throughout the rest of the Bill we are seeking to speed up and simplify the neighbourhood planning process so that the plans will have full weight as quickly as possible.
It is somewhat inevitable in a planning system that aims to balance competing demands for growth and environmental protection that development proposals may lead to limited conflict with one objective in a plan in order to deliver another. In these cases, we must allow decision-takers to balance these competing considerations, without the risk that every decision to approve an application could be taken to appeal. If, in rare cases, a community believes that the local planning authority is minded to approve an application that clearly conflicts with a local plan or an emerging or made neighbourhood plan, it can ask the Secretary of State to intervene and call in the application for his or her own determination.
We also announced in January that, for a further six months, the Secretary of State’s criteria on recovering and deciding planning appeals would continue to include housing proposals in those areas where there is a made or submitted neighbourhood plan. This reflects the Government’s clear policy intention for neighbourhood planning.
Housing and Planning Bill
Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Lord Kennedy of Southwark
Lord Kennedy of Southwark
As my noble friend Lady Hollis has said, can the Minister when she responds say why it is reasonable costs and not all the costs that have been incurred? It is totally unfair if local authorities have to bear some of the costs and all the profit—as my noble friend said—goes to the Government.
Can the Minister also comment on Clause 84(5)? It is an absolutely ridiculous clause the way it is written. It needs to be improved, rewritten or taken out.
Baroness Evans of Bowes Park
I thank noble Lords for their questions. As I have said, the Government are committed to helping cover reasonable costs. We will work with local authorities to make sure that their thoughts are fed into this process; that is the position we are taking.
Lord Kennedy of Southwark
Yes, I know that is the position, but can the Minister tell us why it is not full costs? That is the question we are asking.
Baroness Evans of Bowes Park
There are many things to be taken into consideration and, as I have said, we will discuss with local authorities how best to implement this.
Lord Kennedy of Southwark
Okay. We are clearly not going to get an answer from the Government Front Bench on that. I think it is totally unreasonable not to reimburse councils for their costs.
What is the Government’s response on Clause 84(5)? It is a ridiculous clause the way it is written. What is going to happen there?
Baroness Evans of Bowes Park
I will have to take that away and write to the noble Lord.
Baroness Evans of Bowes Park
I am sorry. The noble Baroness asked about the intention behind the provisions that govern a tenant’s rights to make improvements. Landlords will be able to grant such rights and officials would be happy to meet with carers’ groups to explore this matter, as the noble Baroness suggested.
Lord Kennedy of Southwark
Can the noble Baroness comment further on the points made by the noble Lord, Lord Stunell, when he talked about the Localism Act, which he obviously helped get through the other place in the last Parliament? How would the proposals here regarding secure tenancy square with that?
Baroness Evans of Bowes Park
As I said, our aim is to make sure that people have access to social housing. We do not want to see thousands of tenants forced to live in overcrowded conditions, or occupying homes with more bedrooms than they need, or 1.2 million households on council waiting lists waiting for a social home. As noble Lords have said, local authorities have not used the provisions much and we also need to think about all the people who need access to homes.
Housing and Planning Bill
Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Lord Kennedy of Southwark
Lord Kennedy of Southwark
The Minister explained the process for getting possession of a property believed to have been abandoned but she did not mention vulnerable tenants. Will there be any special provision for vulnerable people? I am worried that those people will not be opening their mail or looking at their emails or engaging in things and all of a sudden they will find themselves on the street.
Baroness Evans of Bowes Park
I set out the overall process but of course we will have to be mindful of people being able to access it. That is why we have put so many checks within the process to ensure that there is an opportunity for the tenant or someone else named as an occupier to respond. The final thing will be a public notice on the property to say what the situation is. We believe that this process as a whole will ensure that tenants are not disadvantaged and, of course, vulnerable tenants are on our mind.
Lord Kennedy of Southwark
The Minister also said that when the tenant of the property believed to have been abandoned has been evicted, they can go to the county court. Will legal aid be available for the county court action?
Baroness Evans of Bowes Park
I will have to get back to the noble Lord. I am afraid I do not have that information.
Lord Kennedy of Southwark
That would be very helpful. In this short debate we have highlighted a few issues with this section of the Bill so can I suggest that it might be welcome if a few noble Lords got together with the Minister to discuss some of them? There are issues which are not clear and could cause problems. The last thing we want is to get something on the statute book that causes everybody confusion.
Lord McKenzie of Luton
I have one further question. If the rent condition is initially not met but then there is a payment which starts the process again, where does that leave the warning notices that have been issued? Will they remain in place for a possible second bout of the application of these provisions?
Baroness Evans of Bowes Park
As I have said, we have heard the strength of feeling in the House on this issue and have agreed that we will meet and have a further opportunity to discuss issues. I will attempt also to ensure we have information on hand in that meeting. I reaffirm that these provisions are not a charter for landlords to carry out a do-it-yourself eviction. That is and will remain unlawful. On the basis of the strength of feeling in the House, we welcome the opportunity to discuss further details with noble Lords. On that basis, I ask that these clauses stand part of the Bill.
Lord Kennedy of Southwark
Can the Minister tell us a little about where the pressure for these changes is coming from? We hear that there is not a big issue and not a problem here. The Government are going to meet us and seem quite determined about this. What is behind all this? Where has it all come from?
Housing and Planning Bill
Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Lord Kennedy of Southwark
Baroness Evans of Bowes Park (Con)
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, for moving Amendment 17, which seeks to place into the Bill a power to widen the Housing Ombudsman’s role to cover private sector housing and disputes between tenants and private landlords. As the noble Lord said, private sector landlords can already join the Housing Ombudsman scheme on a voluntary basis. Indeed, many landlords who wish to assure their tenants of the quality of their services have already done so.
The Government’s interest is in protecting tenants and provisions elsewhere in the Bill already address this; for example, tenants whose landlords have failed to carry out repairs can complain to their local authority, and through the Bill the Government are strengthening the powers of local authorities to deal with landlords who do not comply with the law.
We do not wish to introduce unnecessary regulation on landlords or institute a national register, which would be the ultimate effect of this amendment since, to make it work, all landlords would be required to sign up to the scheme. Despite the excellent work of the Housing Ombudsman in resolving complaints, we think that for private landlords membership of the scheme should remain voluntary, although we encourage landlords to sign up.
Where private landlords have signed up voluntarily, they are signalling to their tenants that they are committed to a high level of service and can be expected to comply with any determination. Were they to be required to sign up, we might not see the same level of engagement with the process or level of compliance, as the noble Lord, Lord Best, intimated, and determinations would not be enforceable. We would risk increasing the number of complaints and the associated costs, while the tenants of reluctant landlords might not see the benefit.
The measures in the Bill are focused on tackling rogue landlords, but we must remember that the majority of landlords in the private sector provide good-quality and well-managed accommodation. We know that 84% of private renters are satisfied with their accommodation and stay in their homes for an average of three and a half years. The Government want to support and encourage good landlords so that they become more professional and continue to provide good-quality rented accommodation. Part of that approach involves ensuring that the regulatory framework is appropriate and proportionate, keeping red tape to a minimum and having a level playing field so that good landlords are not undercut by less reputable ones.
To support that objective, the Government have introduced a number of measures, as the noble Lord, Lord Foster, said, to drive up standards across the board, including: publishing How to Rent and other guides for tenants; developing a model tenancy agreement for use by landlords and tenants; requiring letting agents to display their fees in a prominent place so that prospective tenants will always know from the outset how much they will be charged; and promoting voluntary accreditation schemes and the industry-wide code of practice.
In answer to the question about making the code of practice statutory, we have no plans to do so because it is currently working well and we do not want to add further burdens. In relation to the Housing Ombudsman, we have no plans at this stage to merge it into a single ombudsman service because the Housing Ombudsman performs a specific role and needs to retain its independence.
I hope that on the basis of this explanation the noble Lord will withdraw his amendment.
Lord Kennedy of Southwark
My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have spoken in this short debate. I take the point that the noble Lord, Lord Foster of Bath, made about the funding mechanism. We certainly need to devise a system that collects the fee with another charge or over a longer period, although, as the noble Lord, Lord Best, said, there are already private landlords who have signed up to the scheme and pay their contribution to be part of this valuable service.
That is also why our amendment put forward a pilot scheme in only one part of the country—London. At the end of the scheme, that would be evaluated by the Secretary of State and a report would be laid before Parliament; at that point the scheme might have been a great success and could be extended further or might not have worked—or somewhere in between. We gave all options to the Secretary of State to move forward.
We should not forget that, in many of the areas that I outlined in which people have protections, virtually no legal aid is available now for these things. The protections are there, but they do not have the legal aid to ensure those protections. With that, though, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Housing and Planning Bill
Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Lord Kennedy of Southwark
Baroness Evans of Bowes Park (Con)
My Lords, this amendment would insert a new clause into the Bill that seeks to remove the requirement that a house in multiple occupation is required to be licensed only if the building is of three or more storeys. While mandatory licensing applies to such HMOs if they are occupied by five or more persons in two or more households, local authorities have the power to introduce additional licensing schemes to cover smaller HMOs.
It is of course appreciated that not all local authorities have made additional licensing schemes but, as the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, said, it is also well known that some of the worst management standards, living conditions, disrepair and overcrowding in the private rented sector are found in smaller HMOs. This is why the Government issued a technical discussion paper late last year, seeking views on whether mandatory licensing should be extended to smaller HMOs. Officials are currently analysing the results and the Government hope to publish a response to the discussion paper in the spring. I can assure your Lordships that the Government are determined to tackle abuses in the HMO market, as they are in any other part of the private rented sector. Extended mandatory licensing is an option to achieve this, through secondary legislation. We are considering that option but we want to fully consider all responses received before announcing how we will proceed.
I hope that on this assurance, and because I have been able to say that the Government are looking at this and committed to stamping out abuse in HMOs, the noble Lord will agree to withdraw his amendment.
Lord Kennedy of Southwark
My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have spoken in this debate, including the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, and the noble Baroness, Lady Maddock. I knew about the consultation and I am delighted that we will get a response back in the spring. I hope that it is a favourable one, and with that I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Baroness Evans of Bowes Park
Does the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, wish to mention waterways before I respond?
Lord Kennedy of Southwark
The amendment on waterways came about because at a meeting of tenants from around London I met a group of people who live on the waterways. I mentioned the Second Reading of the Bill and they said they felt aggrieved as they had been totally ignored by most of their local authorities. They live on waterways such as the Thames, in the dock areas, and they feel that when it comes to services they are not involved or consulted. I know that this is not a major issue in the Bill, but I would be grateful if someone could meet some of these people before we get to the next stage. Perhaps there could be some regulations or guidance to point them in the right direction. They had a valid point and such a meeting might be helpful to them.
Baroness Evans of Bowes Park
I will take it back. I would reiterate that it is a private matter, but we will have further conversations.
Lord Kennedy of Southwark
I am happy not to press my amendment after the explanation the noble Baroness has given us.