Immigration Bill

Debate between Baroness Cumberlege and Lord Taylor of Holbeach

Monday 10th March 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

I have to say that we are not looking to put people in that situation. Indeed, one would hope—this is the reason for the provision—that if people are here for a period of time, they have got cover for their healthcare. That is the whole point of the charge in the first place. If people come as temporary visitors then that is a slightly different position, but they make that choice. They make the choice to come here, and they carry the responsibility to do so.

Perhaps I may turn to some of the amendments. It is good that we have had this chance to talk about the principles behind the charging and I hope that it has clarified the position to some degree. However, there are points here that I think I need to clear up. The first is that the restrictions to services set out in Part 3 are designed to protect our services from illegal immigrants—people who are remaining here outside the law. Many of these provisions will have no impact at all on pregnant women who are in the UK lawfully. The Government are committed to ensuring that the new restrictions and charges in Part 3 are appropriately targeted and do not impose a disproportionate burden on either service providers or migrants.

I should like to address some other points regarding Amendments 59, 60, 63, 64A and 65, which seek to exempt pregnant women from the health surcharge or the NHS treatment charges. I fear that there has been a misunderstanding about the purpose of the surcharge and the manner in which it will operate. As I say, the surcharge will be paid by legal, temporary migrants who come to the UK for more than six months. Our policy intention is that those who pay the surcharge, including pregnant women, will not be subject to most other NHS treatment charges. That will include both antenatal and postnatal care. They will be charged only for services that a UK resident might also be expected to pay for.

Amendment 60 also seeks to exempt children under the age of 18 from the surcharge. This would undermine the general principle that temporary migrants should contribute to the NHS, commensurate with their immigration status. Children are as likely to need NHS care as anyone else. It is therefore reasonable to expect parents—and it would be parents—to make this contribution on behalf of their child.

We have seen the headlines about health tourism. I am afraid that Amendments 63 and 65 would exacerbate the problem of maternity tourism. They would allow any pregnant woman to use the NHS free of charge. The NHS is not equipped to supply free maternity services for the rest of the world, and I do not think that that is an unreasonable thing for a government Minister to say.

[Baroness Cumberlege]

Amendment 63, which I tabled, proposes four new subsections. Proposed new subsection (1A) states:

“Notwithstanding subsection (1), any pregnant woman shall be treated as ordinarily resident”,

and proposed new subsection (1B) states:

“However, subsection (1A) shall not apply where there is evidence the woman has entered the UK for the purpose of obtaining healthcare”.

I think that is quite clear. I am saying that people who apply here simply for the purpose of obtaining healthcare should normally have to pay. Perhaps the Minister will clarify that. I am still very concerned about the three examples I gave. Will he address them? The first is a woman who came in with her husband and the relationship has broken down. Is she now exempt from these charges? The second example is a woman who is destitute and living on the streets. If she becomes pregnant as a result of a sexual assault, is she exempt? The third is a woman who is married to a British man and has submitted an immigration application to the Home Office who becomes pregnant and gives birth while the application is being assessed. Is she to be charged? It is not just maternity services; it is the other services being introduced in this Bill, such as prescriptions, dental care and A&E.

House of Lords: Peerages

Debate between Baroness Cumberlege and Lord Taylor of Holbeach

Monday 19th July 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

Maintaining the diversity of the House is very important; all the contributions that have been made have made that quite clear. I am sure that it is the aim and wish of all noble Lords for that to be maintained. It is important to bear in mind that, while Members of this House have direct experience, they also have indirect experience. When we have debates on which there is little or no experience in this House—let us say, teenage unemployment, which is a major issue—many noble Lords have indirect experience of it and are able to contribute to such debates with skill. That is a factor that we need to bear in mind. Direct experience is only one way in which people can contribute to this House.

[Baroness Cumberlege]

My Lords, returning to the Question, does the noble Lord agree that the profile of nursing has changed dramatically in the past 10 to 15 years? We have nurse prescribing and nurses dealing with very complex long-term conditions. We have nurses taking direct referrals from patients. Much more than that, nurses are now taking strategic decisions in universities, in the Armed Forces, in prison health and in all sorts of other areas. Is not that experience important to this House and would it not enrich our debates and help with the scrutiny of legislation?

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

I can only add that the Appointments Commission looks for nominations from all walks of life. We welcome all nominations from the nursing profession and, indeed, I hope the nursing profession will be listening to this short debate and take steps to make sure that nominations come forward.