West Papua

Debate between Baroness Chapman of Darlington and Lord Lexden

Wednesday 13th November 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

We have worked with the Indonesian Government on sustainable palm oil. I have not read the anthropological study that the noble Baroness refers to, but if she wants to send it to me I would be very happy to look at it. We very much support the role of indigenous communities, particularly in promoting biodiversity and preventing deforestation. They are vital partners and we will achieve very little unless we work closely with indigenous communities.

[Lord Lexden (Con)]

My Lords, should we not be concerned about the Indonesian colonisation of West Papua, which, as the noble and right reverend Lord said, has led to the deaths of tens of thousands among the indigenous population? Will the Government do all they can to stir the international community into action on this matter?

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

I think the international community is aware of the situation in Papua, hence the interest from the United Nations. We will continue to work through that method, and bilaterally, to raise the issues that we are all so concerned about.

Schools Bill [HL]

Debate between Baroness Chapman of Darlington and Lord Lexden

Committee stage
Wednesday 22nd June 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lexden (Con)]

My Lords, I will comment briefly, following on from the noble Baroness. As usual in education debates, I declare my interest as a former general secretary of the Independent Schools Council, which accredits and represents some 1,400 schools, and as the current president of the Independent Schools Association, one of the council’s constituent bodies, which has some 580 of those schools in its membership. There is not a household name among them, and none of them is large in size: many have no more than 200 pupils, some less. But all of them are serving their local communities; responding to their parents’ wishes; striving to keep fees down; and fulfilling their charitable purposes, not just by providing education—recognised as a charitable purpose in law for over 400 years—but by delivering wider public benefit through bursaries, partnership projects with local state schools, and participation in local community projects. Because of the lateness of the hour, I will not give further details in full reply to the noble Baroness.

This amendment seems to have been dug out of the Labour Party’s archives.

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

It has not been dug out of an archive. I expect it to be in our next manifesto, so I expect the noble Lord to have to engage with this on a regular basis.

[Lord Lexden]

I want to give some background, if I may. At the general election of February 1974 the Labour manifesto declared:

“All forms of tax-relief and charitable status for public schools will be withdrawn.”


With some redrafting, “private schools” being substituted for “public schools” for example, this remained the Labour Party’s position during the rest of the 1970s and throughout the 1980s. At the 1992 election, the threat to charitable status disappeared, 30 years later to suddenly come back now, a weary ghost from the past.

What has happened during the last 30 years? Something significant has occurred: schools in the two sectors of education have moved ever closer together. The credit for this, of course, belongs to the schools themselves. They were drawn together by a recognition of the mutual benefits of partnership in so many different areas—in teaching, particularly in specialist subjects, music, drama and sport. Today this large programme of joint work is underpinned by a memorandum of understanding between the Independent Schools Council and the Government. Details are available on the council’s Schools Together website. Extensive though the programme is, there is more to be done. The best thing that everyone who has the interests of education at heart can do is to press independent and state schools to do more together. Noble Lords opposite should perhaps visit some independent schools to see what partnership work they are carrying out with state sector colleagues—that is the word they use, “colleagues”.

When I was at the Independent Schools Council, years ago, I found it quite difficult to interest the Conservative Party in any of this; Tony Blair’s Government was a different matter. Education Ministers, including Charles Clarke and David Miliband, came to the council’s offices for discussions. An official independent/state schools partnership scheme was set up to encourage progress, backed by modest funding from the Department for Education. In 2000, the then Schools Minister wrote that there had been “a huge cultural change”. In January 2001, she wrote: “There are no plans to legislate to remove charitable status from independent schools.” The same Minister got independent schools seats in the General Teaching Council and introduced special fast-track arrangements to help teachers in independent schools get QTS. She referred to them earlier in these debates. Always listen carefully to everything the noble Baroness, Lady Morris of Yardley, says in this House. I am sorry she is not in her place at the moment.

For years, independent schools have used the benefits of their charitable status, and more besides, to give help with fees. Back in 2001, I used to say that for every pound of benefit received, they provided £2.30 in help with fees. What would be the effect of overturning a law that has stood for over 400 years by confiscating the schools’ charitable status? Fees would rise, bursaries would fall, and schools would become more socially exclusive. I think the policy embodied in this amendment should go back to the Labour Party’s archives.