Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Baroness Chapman of Darlington and Chris Grayling

Tuesday 17th March 2015 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

The hon. Gentleman will be aware that, in law, prison officers are not permitted to strike. I have done what I said I would do for the unions, which is to implement in full the recommendation of the pay review body.

[Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab)]

The situation in our prisons is dire. Many times over the years we have heard the word “crisis” used. I have to say that the situation now is as bad as I have ever seen it. The most recent quarterly prison safety report makes exceptionally grim reading, with serious assaults on staff at an all-time high. Grimmer still was an e-mail I received from an officer who said:

“I have been a prison officer for 17 years. I have never felt so vulnerable before, we have had another serious assault on a member of staff that has required treatment. Do you have any idea what it’s like to go to work feeling scared?”

Is it not an outrageous truth that violence has become an occupational hazard for our prison officers?

[Chris Grayling]

The hon. Lady is absolutely right that the rise in serious violence in our prisons is wholly unacceptable. It is pretty clear to me that the biggest cause of that change has been the presence of so-called legal highs—new psychoactive substances—in our prisons. Only last Friday, I spoke to a prison governor who said that it is the key problem that staff face. We have taken a number of steps, including criminalising the throwing of substances over a wall in prisons. We are about to trial body scanners in our prisons. We will take all steps that we sensibly can to protect our staff. These substances are a danger to our society as a whole. They need to be dealt with effectively in our prisons, and they will be.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Baroness Chapman of Darlington and Chris Grayling

Tuesday 16th December 2014 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

The deportation process should mean that these people are not entitled to re-enter the UK. Of course, the increased sharing of data between European police forces is one way of ensuring that we know who they are before they try to enter the country and that they do not return. My hon. Friend and I share the same ambition of ensuring that people who have committed terrible crimes in other countries simply cannot come to live here.

[Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab)]

The Lord Chancellor is correct in describing the chief inspector of probation as a man of great integrity, because his report yesterday contradicts somewhat the description of the Transforming Rehabilitation programme that the Lord Chancellor has just provided us with, even though the chief inspector’s wife runs half the service now. The chief inspector said that splitting the probation service in two has caused problems with process, communication and information sharing—I am not being funny, but some of us have been saying that for quite some time. Is it not now about time the Lord Chancellor woke up to the reality of his risky, shambolic privatisation?

[Chris Grayling]

I do wish the hon. Lady would get her facts right. She just said that the chief inspector’s wife is running half the service at the moment, but of course that is not true. The service remains, as of today, entirely within the public sector, and she might get her basic facts right. Had she read that report, she would have seen that the chief inspector identified a number of long-term systemic problems that predate any change we have put in place and were ensuring underperformance. He said that it was necessary to move to a steady state—in other words, to complete the reforms and get things bedded in for the long term—as quickly as possible.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Baroness Chapman of Darlington and Chris Grayling

Tuesday 11th November 2014 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

Let us be clear that we all think that what took place was an horrendous incident. I offer my sincere condolences to the family of the victim. I also offer my sympathy to the hon. Gentleman as the local Member of Parliament dealing with this difficult situation. Of course, a serious further offence review is looking at what took place and it would be wrong of me to prejudge its outcome, but it is already clear to me that lessons will need to be learned and that we may need to make modifications to the way the system works in order to try to make sure that nothing as horrendous as this can ever happen again.

[Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab)]

I would also like to take this opportunity to pass on our condolences to the family of Cerys and the community in Argoed.

On the Transforming Rehabilitation contracts, Sodexo won more contracts to deliver more services than any other bidder. Sodexo is run by the wife of the chief inspector of probation. Does the Secretary of State see that as a conflict of interest in any way and what does he intend to do about it?

[Chris Grayling]

We are, of course, at the preferred bidder stage. Clearly, the issue is under discussion and it will need to be addressed. I will give further information to the House in due course. We should also remember that people in public life are sometimes married to other people in public life. Simply put, I hope that the Ministry of Justice, were it to fall under the leadership of a Labour Government, would not be disadvantaged by the fact that the putative Home Secretary is married to the putative Chancellor of the Exchequer. We have to consider these things very carefully and deal with them in a mature and sensible way, and we will seek to do that.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Baroness Chapman of Darlington and Chris Grayling

Tuesday 9th September 2014 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend. The arrival of GPS tags in this country provides a great opportunity for the criminal justice system in a variety of different ways. We will have first access to that technology in a form that is sufficiently robust to be used in courts if necessary later this year, and I think it has great potential.

[Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab)]

The right hon. Gentleman needs to know that the cost of reoffending is now the same as holding the London Olympics every single year. There is now more overcrowding, less education, and more violence in our prisons than ever before. Why will he not admit that the only intervention his Government have made in the past four and half years that has had the effect of reducing reoffending statistics is the one when he decided to change the way he would calculate those statistics?

[Chris Grayling]

I am afraid I have to correct the hon. Lady. At the moment our prison system is at its least overcrowded for 10 years, and the number of prisoners going through education is set to increase significantly this year.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Baroness Chapman of Darlington and Chris Grayling

Tuesday 1st July 2014 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

We have been working very hard to ensure that we have a new strong leadership team. I am encouraged by the group of people who have come forward to take leadership roles in both the national probation service and the CRCs. Many of the existing chief executives have moved into those new positions. We also have a new generation of leaders who have emerged from the next rung down. From what I see on the ground, they are already delivering strong leadership and a sense of direction.

[Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab)]

Listening to the Secretary of State, one would think there was nothing at all to worry about. Unfortunately, already we have seen lost files and staff unable to access information; charities are pulling out; and four of the mutuals intending to bid for services collapsed last week. Given all these problems, it seems pretty clear that even if he will not—I know he will not—abandon his plans altogether, a delay to the project would be the safest and perhaps the wisest thing to do. Will the Secretary of State please revise his timetable and resist the temptation to press ahead regardless of the risk to the public?

[Chris Grayling]

I keep hearing from the Opposition about the need to delay and to amend the timetable. We are spending most of the second half of this year, from the start of June through to the end of the year, making sure that the new system beds in properly, and we are dealing, in the public sector, with the teething problems that will inevitably arise. That is entirely consistent with what the hon. Lady is asking for; it is what we are doing.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Baroness Chapman of Darlington and Chris Grayling

Tuesday 18th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

The guarantee I can give the hon. Gentleman’s constituents is that we are not removing the people who are doing the job at the moment. We are freeing them operationally to innovate, and we are bringing new skills to the task of rehabilitating offenders. A much greater danger to his constituents would be to do nothing, and to leave all those thousands of offenders with no support or supervision, walking the streets, including in his constituency, and able to commit more crimes.

[Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab)]

The fact is that the Secretary of State has had to delay his plans already. His work force are going out on strike, he has a payment-by-results model that pays regardless of results, and 200,000 offenders do not know who will be supervising them. Has he not become so enamoured of his project that he can no longer see, let alone deal with, its many serious flaws?

[Chris Grayling]

What a load of complete nonsense! The reality is that the Opposition have no idea how to deal with the problem of reoffending. They are in opposition, and we are now less than a year away from a general election, yet I have not the slightest idea of what they would do in our place. I am not prepared to allow a situation to continue in which people are left to walk the streets with no post-prison supervision, resulting in thousands of them reoffending, when we know from the experience of the pilot that we set up in Peterborough that mentoring those offenders can bring down crime significantly.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Baroness Chapman of Darlington and Chris Grayling

Tuesday 17th December 2013 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

I am very much in favour of a broader supplier base and the arrival of new organisations to work with the Government. I think it important for us to work with third parties, as, indeed, the last Government did. I believe that when, in the near future, we publish the list of organisations that have passed the pre-qualification questionnaire stage in respect of the reforms of the probation service, every Member in the House will be encouraged by the mix of organisations that have put their names forward.

[Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab)]

I have never before raised an individual case with the Secretary of State, but every now and again something happens that I think is worthy of being raised in the House.

The Secretary of State will be aware that last week, in court, it was reported that a woman had miscarried in her cell during her first night in a prison run by Sodexo, She informed health care workers, but was made to clean up on her own, and received no assistance for three days and no pain relief. Sodexo’s own inquiry into the matter is not sufficient. The Secretary of State should commit himself to some kind of inquiry, investigation or review to ensure that no other woman in a private or a public sector prison has to experience that level of neglect.

[Chris Grayling]

Let me make it absolutely clear that if what has been described is true, it is wholly unacceptable. My team will of course follow it up with Sodexo, and Sodexo itself will want to address it, because no one would seek to defend it. Things go wrong in public prisons and in private prisons, and whenever they do go wrong and what happens is unacceptable, it should be addressed.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Baroness Chapman of Darlington and Chris Grayling

Tuesday 12th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

We very much recognise the importance of restorative justice. We are providing funding to police and crime commissioners to enable them to source restorative justice services locally, and give them the option of working closely with providers who will look after offenders in the future. We are keen to see that partnership work well at a local level, and for that resource to be used to good effect in mitigating the impact of crime on victims in the way restorative justice can do so well.

[Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab)]

Last night, when the Justice Secretary was not here, the prisons Minister assured the House that

“if Serco and G4S do not come out satisfactorily from the audit processes…they will not receive any contracts”—[Official Report, 11 November 2013; Vol. 570, c. 744.]

for probation. The Minister is well regarded across the House, and I am sure he will want to be clear about that. Does he mean the conclusion of the Cabinet Office investigation or the investigation by the Serious Fraud Office? It will be of great concern to Members of the House if the Serious Fraud Office investigation is not concluded before contracts are awarded.

[Chris Grayling]

We must treat that issue carefully because a potentially criminal investigation is taking place at the moment. I will make an appropriate statement to the House in due course about the way forward, but in the meantime, because of the nature of the investigation, I do not think it right for us to enter into discussion about it.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Baroness Chapman of Darlington and Chris Grayling

Tuesday 21st May 2013 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

I am afraid that the hon. Gentleman is simply not right. The Select Committee found recently that only 25% of the time probation staff spent at work was spent working with offenders—the Committee’s Chairman is here today and he will recall this—yet the biggest block of offenders who are likely to reoffend get no support at all. That is why change is necessary.

[Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab)]

We very much support the Government’s moves to extend supervision, but they also want private security firms to take responsibility for supervising medium-risk offenders in the community. That would include people who have committed violent and sexual offences. How do the Government plan to ensure that those private security firms have the appropriate skills and training to protect the public?

[Chris Grayling]

It is a pleasure to see the hon. Lady in her place today. I have begun to forget what the shadow Secretary of State looks like. His team regularly attends these events, but there are some faces missing.

The whole point of what we are trying to do is to address the glaring gap in the system that is leading to reoffending rates that are simply unacceptable. The mechanisms that we are putting in place to manage risk will provide a simple means of transferring offenders from a medium-risk category to a high-risk category if their situation changes and if a risk assessment carried out by the public probation service requires such a transfer. The public probation service will always remain responsible for dealing with the highest-risk offenders.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Baroness Chapman of Darlington and Chris Grayling

Tuesday 13th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

May I say clearly to my hon. Friend that I share his view? I think prison is a very important part of the criminal justice system, I believe that offenders should serve a prison sentence appropriate for the crime they have committed and I have given a clear commitment that there will be no strategy under my leadership of the Ministry of Justice to reduce the number of prison places artificially. I want to see the right people going to prison in the first place.

[Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab)]

The hon. Member for Shipley (Philip Davies) spookily teed that up rather nicely for me. We all want to see policies based on evidence. The evidence tells us that the most effective means of protecting the public from convicted sex offenders is to keep them behind bars for as long as it takes to stop them being a threat. The Government took away so-called indeterminate sentences. It was a dangerous mistake and we said so at the time. When will the Secretary of State put that right and protect our citizens?

[Chris Grayling]

We have introduced longer determinate sentences to deal with the most serious offenders and, unlike the previous Government, we have introduced a “two strikes and you’re out rule” for the worst sex offenders, to ensure that if they offend for a second time, they will go to jail for the rest of their lives.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Baroness Chapman of Darlington and Chris Grayling

Tuesday 18th September 2012 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

The hon. Lady is making an early bid. I can assure her that I have every intention of spending as much time as I can away from Westminster, looking at the work being done in the public sector, as well as by those working with the public sector, to try to understand where we can improve and build on existing successes. I am sure that if I am in Manchester and the opportunity arises, I shall do as she suggests.

[Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab)]

Let me take this opportunity to welcome the Justice Secretary to his place—and, indeed, the prisons Minister and the other Ministers to their places. They say a new broom sweeps clean, so let us have a go. The last Justice Secretary thought that indeterminate sentences were a scandal. We are all hoping that the new Justice Secretary, given his comments in the past, is looking at how to introduce some form of risk-based release. However, given the ruling by the European Court of Human Rights this morning, how long are we likely to have to wait?

[Chris Grayling]

The ECHR ruling this morning was very much about rehabilitation, about which I feel strongly and which needs to be clear and present in prisons, as well as after prison. However, I am very disappointed by the ECHR decision this morning. This is not an area where I welcome the Court seeking to make rulings, and we intend to appeal this morning’s decision.