Groceries Code Adjudicator Bill [HL]

Debate between Baroness Byford and Baroness Wilcox

Thursday 28th June 2012 Grand Committee

[Baroness Wilcox]

We have already discussed the introduction of fines in detail and I made a commitment to discuss that in more detail.

[Baroness Byford]

I am very grateful to the Minister for that reply. In those circumstances, I withdraw my opposition.

Groceries Code Adjudicator Bill [HL]

Debate between Baroness Byford and Baroness Wilcox

Tuesday 26th June 2012 Grand Committee

[Lord Knight of Weymouth]

My Lords, I am interested in the noble Baroness’s amendment. I shall not comment on it at length, but I understand the problem she raises here. I want only to ask the Minister whether, under paragraph 16 of Schedule 1, which we discussed earlier in respect of incidental powers, it would be better to offer the adjudicator some flexibility under this wonderful paragraph and thus allow him to use his judgment on what would be a reasonable level of travel expenses.

[Baroness Wilcox]

My Lords, I can understand why my noble friend is asking this question because she lives in the countryside. I live in Cornwall and I know about buses in rural areas, and can understand the principle behind the amendment. From a practical point of view, a simple distance criterion will be much easier for the adjudicator to apply than one based on the time taken to use public transport. It says here that it is more straightforward and harder to dispute to decide whether someone has travelled more than 10 miles than to calculate whether it would have been possible to make that journey within half an hour on public transport.

However, my instinct is similar to that of the noble Lord, Lord Knight, and I feel that somehow or other the adjudicator should at least be able to have some thoughts on this matter. Although I shall ask my noble friend to withdraw the amendment, I can say that we will go back and look at this issue to see what the answer may be. I do not know whether there can be some discretion, and I may be treading on all sorts of impossible ground, but when we discussed this matter previously, and my team asked why we should consider this, I said, “I think you will find that this is a rural question”. There is obviously sympathy in the Committee for my noble friend’s question. I therefore ask her to withdraw her amendment. However, I will take it away and see if there is anything else that we can come back with.

[Baroness Byford]

I thank my noble friend for that response. I am not wedded to the half-hour period suggested in the amendment, but I wanted a debate about the need for rural accessibility. I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Knight of Weymouth. We all appreciate some of the real difficulties that people face. I am grateful to the Minister, and it gives me great pleasure to withdraw my amendment in the hope that we will come back with something at the next stage. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Wilcox]

My view—and that of the advisers behind me—is that at this stage I need say only one thing: I will write to the noble Lord. That will be easier and fairer. We will make sure that everyone else receives a copy of that, too. I apologise for not being able to be clearer at this stage. Maybe it is getting late. Furthermore, regarding the deletion of subsection (4), it is only fair that if a retailer is identified in a report they are given a reasonable opportunity to comment on a draft of that report before publication.

That brings us on to my noble friend Lady Byford’s amendment, which would require the retailer’s comments to be published as an annex to the report. Although I understand the thinking behind that, on balance it is unnecessary. Although the retailer may comment, the adjudicator is not obliged to include any of these comments and the final report is fully the adjudicator’s. Furthermore, if a retailer knew that any comments they made would be published, it could impair free and frank discussions. I hope that that clarifies the position a little. Apart from the fact that I will write to everyone to clarify the point about freedom of information, I ask noble Lords to withdraw their amendments.

[Baroness Byford]

I am slightly mystified by the Minister’s response to my question. I would be grateful if she would take it away and think about it because it was a surprise.

[Baroness Wilcox]

Yes, of course.

Apprenticeships (Alternative English Completion Conditions) Regulations 2012

Debate between Baroness Byford and Baroness Wilcox

Wednesday 25th April 2012 Grand Committee

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (Baroness Wilcox)]

My Lords, apprenticeships are synonymous with employment. It is the experience of genuine employment that sets an apprenticeship apart from most other forms of vocational training. It is the fact that apprentices have a unique opportunity to learn from one or more mentors and to develop, practise and hone real occupational skills which gives them a real head start in their careers. We all, I am sure, can envisage an apprentice working alongside the mentor or master, watching, copying and refining their skills. For his part, the master will demonstrate, guide and correct the apprentice’s work. Both apprentice and employer have a real stake in the apprentice’s development and success.

When this Administration came into office, approximately 21 per cent of 16 to 18 year-old apprentices were on a programme-led apprenticeship. This meant that one-fifth of our younger apprentices were not employed and did not get paid. Following the initiative of the previous Government to introduce statutory apprenticeships, we went ahead with that work and last year we stopped funding programme-led apprenticeships. The introduction of the apprenticeship agreement regulations in April of this year will end the few remaining programme-led apprenticeships. This means that we can be increasingly confident that apprentices following our statutory programme will be employed and remunerated.

However, this House agreed to make provision for limited exceptions to the requirement for apprentices to be employed. That is why we are here today—to agree those circumstances as specified in these regulations. This issue was thoroughly debated during the passage of the Apprenticeships, Skills, Children and Learning Act. The proposed exceptions fall into three categories, the first being where employed status is not the norm. This applies in a very small number of jobs or occupational areas. Apprentices in this category covered by the regulations will be engaged in specified occupations following a specified framework. A characteristic of such apprenticeships is that they will be supported by experienced colleagues involved in a collective venture— for example, share fishermen.

Secondly, there are those employed apprentices who are made redundant during the course of the apprenticeship. In such a difficult economic climate it would be unfair further to penalise people who have lost the opportunity to complete their apprenticeship through no fault of their own. Knowing that they can complete their apprenticeship, even if they are not able to find alternative paid employment, will, I am sure, offer some consolation. The regulations provide that they may complete their apprenticeship within six months of the date of their redundancy by working other than for reward—for example, by working in a voluntary or unpaid capacity. Having completed their apprenticeship, they should be better placed in the labour market.

Thirdly, we have considered the unique position of our elite athletes. Apprentices undertaking the Advanced Apprenticeship in Sporting Excellence with a view to competing in the Olympic, Paralympic or Commonwealth Games are covered by this final category. In the year of the London Olympics, we are reminded of how important it is to support young athletes to develop their skills. We have sought to ensure clarity over which sports and games are included in these regulations. They must be listed as an official sport from one of the Games mentioned and they must not be from a sport in which we would expect an apprentice to be employed. Such business sports include cricket and football. Apprentices in business sports will still be able to access apprenticeships using the standard conditions.

I hope that noble Lords will agree that these regulations balance the Government’s desire for apprentices to be employed with the need to allow for some flexibility in those circumstances where employment is not possible. That is what this House expects and it helps to enhance the quality of the learning experience by allowing apprentices to apply their blossoming skills as they work. This is also consistent with recent announcements introducing a minimum duration of 12 months for apprenticeships undertaken by 16 to 18 year-olds, and for adults unless they have prior relevant qualifications. I commend the regulations to the Committee.

[Baroness Byford]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for explaining the reasoning behind the regulations. I reinforce again my commitment to apprenticeships, which are hugely important across whatever aspect of work people are able to secure. Apprenticeships are a wonderful way of learning. As the Minister rightly said, mentoring and the passing on of skills and knowledge are crucial in all this.

I apologise for not taking part in the Bill to which the Minister referred. Looking at Schedule 1, I was intrigued to see the fishing industry, which relates to the Minister’s background, listed. I rise to speak to ask for a little more clarification on that. One of the things that struck me was that the fishing industry, which the Minister knows so well, sometimes has restrictions on the days when it can sail. Therefore, I wondered whether there was enough flexibility for the apprentice to be able to complete their six months within six months or whether, under those circumstances—maybe because the ship cannot go out to sea—they could take a longer period. I am not being critical; it is because of my own ignorance that I am raising this particular issue.

Another question arises: if, for any reason, the person is made redundant for obviously commercial reasons, is that apprentice then able to transfer to another fisherman, for example, and reallocate the time that they have done already, or do they have to start afresh? I may have missed this when I was looking through the papers on this order, but I am not clear and I seek clarification.

I agree with the Minister that this is a unique opportunity. It is a shame that, over many years, apprenticeships have been perhaps underrated and undervalued. I am glad that the Government have taken up the role and are much more committed to encouraging and promoting apprenticeships. However, I seek clarification from the Minister.

Groceries Code Adjudicator Bill

Debate between Baroness Byford and Baroness Wilcox

Monday 13th June 2011 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Wilcox]

I am delighted to answer this question because I know that third-world producers are very keen for the adjudicator to be in place. I agree that suppliers to the large supermarket groups come in all shapes and sizes. I was once one myself, so I know exactly how this process works and exactly where the worries lie on either side. However, it is worth remembering—I used to have to remind myself of this—that these are huge contracts and people go for them because they are a wonderful way of increasing employment and expanding one’s business. Therefore, a balance has to be found.

[Baroness Byford]

My Lords, does the Minister accept that there is extreme pressure from all sides of agriculture to have the adjudicator in place as soon as possible? The right reverend Prelate mentioned dairy, but the situation for pig farmers is extremely acute, and a lot of supermarket offers promote imported products rather than our own, which seems grossly unfair. Everybody is hoping for a fair deal for all those who have to deal with the few major players who control prices.

[Baroness Wilcox]

The whole reason for bringing in the adjudicator will be to arbitrate in disputes between the large retailers and their direct suppliers, and to investigate possible breaches of the grocery code, which has been in place for a year now. Of course, when there is a group of very big supermarkets together, that is a worry. That is the whole reason for putting this in place and I am sure that the noble Baroness would want this to go through as quickly as possible.