Finance (No. 4) Bill

Debate between Baroness Burt of Solihull and George Howarth

Monday 16th April 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Howarth]

The hon. Gentleman makes a useful point. I said that the system would be complex to administer, and complex things cost more, so the hon. Gentleman is right to say that. I had not intended to cover the point, but he is also right to express concerns, as did my Front-Bench colleague, my hon. Friend the Member for Leeds West (Rachel Reeves), about the effect of these changes on charities. I happily endorse the sentiment behind the hon. Gentleman’s comments..

I mentioned the maximum pension credit, which is being cut by £1.98 a week for single pensioners and £3.36 a week for couples. The threshold at which people qualify for pension credit has increased by 8.4% to £111.80 for single pensioners and £178.35 for couples. That means that 27,500 pensioners in Knowsley could be affected by these changes. One important characteristic of the previous Government—I do not think it is open to dispute—is that the lot of pensioners steadily increased during the period in which they were in office. What we seem to be confronted with here is the potential for pensioners to get poorer and poorer, as happened under previous Conservative Governments. That is a real concern in my constituency. These changes, taken in conjunction with other changes to the benefit system, will mean real hardship in my constituency, which is one of the poorest in the country.

Let me say a few words about minimum unit pricing for alcoholic beverages. I shall quote a constituent who wrote to me. I shall not name them, as I do not have permission to do so. My constituent wrote:

“The reality is that minimum pricing will affect those less well-off and have little impact on those with a poor relationship with alcohol. It will enrich retailers without creating jobs, reduce investment and damage producers leading to the loss of jobs. The treasury will recover less duty and tax from the sector as a whole.”

I will give my view in a few minutes, but I think that when people write to Members of Parliament expressing such concerns, it is important for us to raise and address the issues.

I have also received some briefing from a company in my constituency, Halewood International. It employs 500 people in the north-west of England, most of whom are in my constituency. It produces some products of which Members may have heard—one is Crabbie’s Ginger Beer, which is a very popular drink; another is Red Square Vodka—and, as well as producing some important brands, it distributes brands for a large number of other companies.

Halewood has made a number of points, to which I hope Ministers will consider responding. First, it says:

“Alcohol consumption has declined since 2004 and more people are drinking responsibly.”

I think that there is evidence to support that assertion. Secondly, it says:

“There is no evidence that minimum pricing will reduce alcohol misuse. It will affect all consumers and punish the majority who drink responsibly.”

That is clearly true: it will affect everyone. The company adds:

“It will hit people on the lowest incomes hardest.”

That, too, is clearly true.

Thirdly, Halewood says:

“Minimum unit pricing is likely to be illegal under European Law. It is inconsistent with the operation of the free market for the state to intervene on price.”

The company is not alone in that view. The Economic Secretary to the Treasury has said:

“the Scottish Government have recently introduced a Bill that seeks to bring in a 45p per unit minimum price… we believe that it could be incompatible with article 34 of the treaty of the functioning of the European Union… That is the position.”—[Official Report, 14 December 2011; Vol. 537, c. 341WH.]

So it is not just companies with an interest in the matter that believe that minimum pricing is likely to be problematic in terms of European law. In December last year, the Government thought the same.

Fourthly, Halewood says:

“The UK alcohol industry already pays some of the highest rates of alcohol tax in Europe. The Budget delivered a 5% increase in duty.”

Finally, it says:

“The drinks industry is committed to helping to tackle alcohol misuse. It is delivering a range of initiatives to encourage responsible drinking, such as through the Public Health Responsibility Deal.”

That is the case being put by the industry, and by some of my constituents. Personally, I have an open mind on the introduction of minimum unit pricing. I recognise that problematic drinking exists throughout the country—not just in urban areas, but in every constituency—and that there is a growing problem of young people drinking too much, too often, and ending up with serious health problems as a result. If I could be convinced that these measures would address that adequately, I could be persuaded to support them, but I do need to be convinced.

[Lorely Burt (Solihull) (LD)]

I cannot agree with the right hon. Gentleman about minimum pricing, because I think there is a lot of evidence to suggest that the most responsible drinking goes on in our public houses. Although the alcohol manufacturers may have some reservations about minimum pricing, does the right hon. Gentleman agree that low charging by supermarkets, whereby our young people buy alcohol in them and get tanked up before going out, is detrimental both to our society in general and to our pub industry, which I am sure all Members cherish and are keen to see survive?

[Mr Howarth]

The hon. Lady makes an effective point. I am tempted to enter into a debate about what has happened to the pub industry over the last decade, but I doubt whether that would be in order. I will say, however, that people’s habits have changed, including in respect of the places they go to for entertainment. That is particularly the case for young people. Many of them no longer go to pubs for entertainment. Some of the new places they go to serve alcohol, but others do not. More is going on here than the hon. Lady suggests, therefore. She is right, however, that some young people buy alcohol from supermarkets and drink it at home, so that they are already half-filled up, as it were, when they later go out to a nightclub. One of the reasons they do so is that the drink prices in nightclubs are so expensive. I hasten to add, however, that I am not an expert on young people’s drinking habits.