Code of Conduct

Baroness Burt of Solihull Excerpts

Monday 12th March 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Kevin Barron (Rother Valley) (Lab)]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. As you rightly say, there are two motions on the Order Paper in my name. The first is the more important: it invites the House to approve a revised code of conduct. The House of Commons has long had resolutions covering conduct, but the idea of a code of conduct is relatively recent. It was not until 1995 that the House endorsed the principle of such a code. Since then, the code has been revised, in 2002 and in 2005. This is only the fourth version of the code since the first version was approved in 1996.

In approving the code of conduct today, the House will be setting the framework for the rules that will, I hope, last for the remainder of this Parliament and into the next. It is important to be clear about what the code is for. It is not a rule book that sets out precise instructions about what is and is not permissible in each case. As the commissioner has set out in a memorandum attached to our report, it is a document that establishes

“broad high-level principles in relation to the main areas of a Member’s conduct”

and

“provides a high-level statement of the specific rules to which Members will be held to account”.

All those who responded to the commissioner’s consultation supported this approach. Relying on detailed rules designed to meet every eventuality creates the risk that people will be encouraged to game the system. We have only to look at the creativity of tax avoidance schemes to see that. The code has a broader function: it helps us to ensure that we behave in a way that is consistent with the seven principles of public life—the Nolan principles, which are part of the code and which underpin its provisions. Where appropriate, the code is supplemented by more detailed statements of some of the rules, such as the guide to the rules, and the rules on the use of House facilities, but Members have ultimate responsibility for ensuring that they abide by the principles of the code.

The Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards has the task of reviewing the code and making recommendations to the Committee. In 2002, the Committee on Standards in Public Life recommended that this should be done once in each Parliament. Following the expenses scandal, we judged it better to defer a review of the code in the last Parliament, in order to give Members of the new Parliament an opportunity to review it in the light of experience.

The commissioner’s memorandum to the Committee sets out all the changes to the code clearly, and explains the reasoning behind each of them. Our report focuses on all the provisions that we consider most significant. Broadly speaking, the commissioner’s proposals have the effect of making the code clearer and removing some repetitions and infelicities. The most significant proposed change is in paragraph 2 of the code. The current code

“does not seek to regulate what Members do in their purely private and personal lives”,

but it does extend to their wider public lives. Our proposal is that the code will no longer apply to Members’ wider public lives. As the commissioner points out, Members’ behaviour in their wider public life will be policed by other regulatory bodies, and there will be no need for the House to intervene.

There is an important proviso to the exclusion from the code of private and personal lives or wider public life. Those areas should be excluded unless

“such conduct significantly damages the reputation and integrity of the House of Commons as a whole or of its Members generally.”

That is not an entirely new provision. Paragraph 15 of the present code stipulates that Members should

“never undertake any action which would bring the House of Commons, or its Members generally, into disrepute.”

Personal life is currently excluded from the code, but a Member’s wider public life is not. The code will extend only to conduct which

“significantly damages the reputation and integrity of the Commons as a whole or of its Members generally”.

That is a very high hurdle indeed.

[Lorely Burt (Solihull) (LD)]

Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that the amendment, which also stands in my name would prevent the commissioner from becoming involved in issues that were entirely private, while leaving scope for the investigation of breaches in which a personal matter crossed over into a political matter?

[Mr Barron]

The hon. Lady makes an interesting point. I was about to move on to talk about the amendment, and we can look at that question in a moment.

The amendment is also in the name of the hon. Member for Broxbourne (Mr Walker), and I am sure that he will explain it later in the debate. It raises significant questions. As I understand it, the amendment would mean that matters relating to a Member’s private and personal life which damaged the reputation and integrity of the House or of Members generally would remain within the scope of the code, but that the commissioner would be precluded from investigating complaints about such matters.

That raises a number of difficult questions. How would the boundaries of private and personal lives be defined? Would a matter remain private and personal if, for example, it had led to criminal behaviour or a failure to comply with civil obligations? Does something remain purely private and personal when it has been running all over the press and the internet for six or seven days? What is an investigation? Would the commissioner be precluded from giving a Member the chance to put his or her side of the story in private, rather than before the Committee as a whole? If the commissioner were unable to investigate extreme cases involving a Member’s personal and private life, would the Committee be expected to investigate them? If so, the Member’s safeguards would be reduced, as the Committee would investigate and pronounce sentence. I would feel uncomfortable about that. We are an adjudication Committee; we do not carry out investigations. The amendment seems to suggest that we might do so, however.

I understand colleagues’ fears that complaints could flood in about private lives, and that the commissioner might have to investigate matters that were properly no one’s business but that of the Member concerned. That is not what is intended. The House should have trust in the commissioner, in the Committee and in itself. Serious cases of a fall in standards should be decided on the Floor of the House, and not by the commissioner or by the Committee.

I am confident that the commissioner will not investigate purely private matters. If some future commissioner did so, I am confident that the Committee would take a robust approach, and that any serious sanction recommended by the Committee would come to the House, which would decide whether it was merited. I ask Members to have faith that all those involved, including the House, would use common sense if these measures were ever applied. I, for one, hope that they never will be.

The new provision is intended only for extreme circumstances, described by the commissioner as those in which a Member’s conduct in certain extremely limited circumstances is so serious and so blatant that it causes significant damage to the reputation of the House. In my judgment, it would be even more damaging to the reputation of the House and to the public’s confidence in the code of conduct—which is one of its key purposes—if the House were unable to take action to express its disapproval and uphold its standards in such circumstances.

Committee on Standards and Committee of Privileges

Baroness Burt of Solihull Excerpts

Monday 12th March 2012 Commons Chamber

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo)]

Lorely Burt?

[Lorely Burt (Solihull) (LD)]

I just want to speak briefly to the amendment standing in my name on the revised code of conduct—

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Order. The hon. Lady is speaking to the wrong group of amendments. I have her down to speak in the next debate; that is why I hesitated when I called her.

--- Later in debate ---

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I call Lorely Burt.

[Lorely Burt]

Regarding the amendment standing in my name and that of others on the revised code of conduct—

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Order. We are not on the code of conduct yet; we are on the motions relating to the pay for Chairs of Select Committees and amendments to Standing Orders about standards and privileges. The code of conduct is the next business, and I will definitely call the hon. Lady at the right time—unless she wants to speak in this debate.

[Lorely Burt]

indicated dissent.

Business of the House

Baroness Burt of Solihull Excerpts

Thursday 12th January 2012 Commons Chamber

[Sir George Young]

I commend the hon. Gentleman’s work on that issue. I would like to pursue the discussion through the usual channels, and then come back to him.

[Lorely Burt (Solihull) (LD)]

Given the increasing number of schools offering A-levels, there is an increasing anomaly with VAT, in that schools do not pay it but sixth-form colleges do. The Treasury has rejected requests from the Sixth Form Colleges Forum and others to rectify that. With VAT standing at 20%, may we have a debate to explore ways to equalise the situation and be fairer to sixth-form colleges?

[Sir George Young]

I understand my hon. Friend’s concern. There will be an opportunity on Monday to raise this issue with the Secretary of State for Education. For now, I think the appropriate answer to my hon. Friend is that the Chancellor of the Exchequer is in the process of drawing up his Budget, the date of which has been announced, and I will take her request as a bid for him to consider that matter as part of his broader Budget considerations.

Business of the House

Baroness Burt of Solihull Excerpts

Thursday 23rd June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Sir George Young]

As the hon. Gentleman was good enough to concede, this problem has been going on for some time. There will be an opportunity to raise it with Defence Ministers on 4 July. In the meantime, I will remind my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Defence of the concern that this matter remains outstanding and urge him to do all he can to bring it to a satisfactory conclusion.

[Lorely Burt (Solihull) (LD)]

My hon. Friend the Member for Bristol West (Stephen Williams) and, this morning, the Deputy Prime Minister are calling for shares in Northern Rock and Lloyds, which we substantially own, to be distributed to the British people. Given the interest in this proposal, may we please debate it on the Floor of the House?

[Sir George Young]

Indeed, that is one of a number of options. I think the reference was to Lloyds and HBOS, as I think a Treasury statement about Northern Rock was made last week. It is important to have an open debate about the options available to the Government when the time is right for transferring these banks to the private sector. I cannot promise an immediate debate, but I am sure there will be opportunities, perhaps in the remaining stages of the Finance Bill, to deal with it.

Business of the House

Baroness Burt of Solihull Excerpts

Thursday 14th October 2010 Commons Chamber

[Sir George Young]

I understand that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Wales has written to all Welsh Members setting out her decision not to refer the matter to the Welsh Grand Committee. As the hon. Gentleman will know, the Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office, my hon. Friend the Member for Forest of Dean (Mr Harper), who is the Minister with responsibility for political and constitutional issues, is giving evidence today to the Welsh Affairs Committee. The hon. Gentleman will also know that one reason why the Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill is being taken on the Floor of the House is to allow Members from all parts of the UK to make their contributions. We have provided five days for debate in Committee of the whole House and two days on Report, which is an adequate opportunity for all Members to make their points. The specific issues concerning Wales arise under clause 11, and I hope that he will have an opportunity to contribute to that debate.

[Lorely Burt (Solihull) (LD)]

May we have a debate on plans by the banks to phase out the cheque? Cheque guarantee cards are due to be phased out in June next year, which will cause enough problems, but that will be nothing compared with the problems that will be caused for small business people, charities, the housebound, pensioners and many others. They will suffer for the convenience of bankers, who seem to have forgotten what customer service is.

[Sir George Young]

My hon. Friend has raised concerns that are felt in constituencies represented on both sides of the House. As I understand it, the Payments Council announced last year that it had set a provisional date of 2018 to close the cheque-clearing system, and it is keen to hear as many views as possible. I also agree that that would be a perfectly legitimate subject for a debate. Perhaps she will contact the Chair of the Backbench Business Committee and see whether it catches her eye.

Business of the House

Baroness Burt of Solihull Excerpts

Thursday 8th July 2010 Commons Chamber

[Sir George Young]

I do not agree with the assertion at the beginning of the hon. Lady’s question. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Education set out very clearly in his statement on Monday the criteria that we used for deciding which projects would go ahead and which would not. He then answered questions for an hour and a quarter on those criteria. However, the hon. Lady will have a further opportunity next Monday, in Education questions, to pursue the matter.

[Lorely Burt (Solihull) (LD)]

May we have a debate on empty property business rates? In my constituency, Asda, having been denied building permission more than 10 years ago, has allowed the property to go to rack and ruin. It is a total eyesore for local residents, yet the Revenue apparently, I am told, owes Asda £2 million in back rates that Asda is allowed to claw back. That surely cannot be right. May we have a debate on that, please?

[Sir George Young]

I understand the anxiety that the hon. Lady expresses. On 15 July, there will be Communities and Local Government questions and she will have an opportunity to make her point to Ministers.

Business of the House

Baroness Burt of Solihull Excerpts

Thursday 3rd June 2010 Commons Chamber

[Sir George Young]

I join the hon. Gentleman in paying tribute to the job done by those who work in respite care homes. I do not know whether it would be appropriate for him to have an Adjournment debate on the specific subject that he raises and, thus, get an answer from the responsible Minister.

[Lorely Burt (Solihull) (LD)]

Further to this week’s letter written by the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government regarding regional spatial strategy and specifying recommendations for Gypsy and Traveller site numbers per region, could we have a debate on how local authorities can protect themselves from Gypsy and Traveller encampments riding roughshod over planning law in green belt areas? We must ensure that we have a fair system of proper provision of legal campsites for Gypsies and Travellers.

[Sir George Young]

I understand the anxiety that the hon. Lady expresses and I know that at the previous general election my party put forward proposals to give local authorities greater powers to deal with these unauthorised encampments. She may have an opportunity a week today at Communities and Local Government questions to develop her concerns with the appropriate Ministers—perhaps she will be able to do so during topical questions.