EU Court of Justice Ruling: Religious Signs

Baroness Burt of Solihull Excerpts

Wednesday 15th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

As I said in my Statement, and will restate now, we will work with the ECHR to update guidance for employers for dealing with religion or belief in the workplace. As I also said before, and am happy to repeat, indirect discrimination can be lawful or unlawful. It is unlawful where it is neither legitimate nor proportionate. When an employer seeks to justify why it has banned religious symbols or certain items of clothing, it has to point out the legitimacy and proportionality of why it has done so. If that makes it far more difficult for one group of people to be employed, the discriminatory effect of their actions can be called into question.

[Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)]

I, too, thank the Minister for this extensive explanation. We on these Benches and, I am sure, Members of the whole House believe strongly that freedom of religious dress is important in an open and democratic society. I am not the world’s best at interpreting legal judgments, I am afraid, but as I understand it, national Governments through their courts have the ability to interpret the judgment in line with existing cultural beliefs and practices. Is that the Minister’s understanding? Can she therefore confirm that all existing freedoms of religious dress in this country will be protected?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I shall deal with the latter point precisely: yes, we will protect and uphold the freedoms that have been allowed in this country, as we always have done. It will not affect our domestic law. The noble Baroness is also right that when a judgment such as this is made, it is then referred to the national courts—in this case, the courts of France and Belgium—and it is up to them to interpret within their laws what the judgment means. As far as this country is concerned, nothing changes.

Women: Domestic and Sexual Violence Services

Baroness Burt of Solihull Excerpts

Monday 13th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My noble friend highlights a truly terrible state of affairs—in fact one step worse than for some of those women who actually make it to this country, because women in other countries who have no leave to remain and have no rights in that country really are the most vulnerable women in the world. Of course the women who come here and experience domestic violence may also have no leave to remain here and may have their passports taken away from them. This is something that the Government are not just mindful of but doing something about.

[Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)]

My Lords, Women’s Aid’s most recent annual survey found that more than a third of women’s abuse organisations were running a service with no dedicated funding. Will some of the £20 million announced in the Budget last week to tackle domestic abuse be used to support those organisations and, if so, how will it be allocated? If the Minister is unable to give precise details in her answer today, please will she write to me?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The noble Baroness will know that the funding of £20 million she refers to has only just been announced and it is for victims of domestic violence. The tampon tax fund for 2017-18 of £15 million will most definitely focus on improving the lives of disadvantaged women and girls, including the organisations supporting women and girls affected by violence and abuse.

FTSE Companies: Gender Balance

Baroness Burt of Solihull Excerpts

Wednesday 8th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My noble friend makes a very valid point, and I congratulate her on her extensive work on modernising and increasing diversity in the public appointments system. During the Davies review, the Government launched a code of conduct for executive search firms, which required signatories to ensure that significant weight is given to relevant skills, competencies and personal capabilities, rather than just a narrow focus on career experience. The Hampton-Alexander review continues a focus on recruitment: the fifth recommendation in its first report is for search firms to redouble their efforts and consider extending the code of conduct to include recruitment to senior executive roles.

[Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)]

My Lords, on this International Women’s Day, I am wearing this purple scarf in support of the thousands of women demonstrating outside this place for pensions justice. I raise the issue of women on sporting boards, whose numbers are actually declining. The Women in Sport survey found that almost half of Britain’s sporting bodies are failing to meet the 30% target set for them. Will the Minister use this opportunity to reinforce to them the serious threat that they are under of losing their funding unless this injustice is rectified?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I certainly concur with the noble Baroness that women’s representation on sporting boards is woeful. In fact, I had a very interesting conversation with the noble Baroness, Lady Grey-Thompson, about the generally male attitude in sport. What I said to my noble friend absolutely applies to sport: women on boards enhance the professions and sports that they represent, rather than the other way round.

Gender Pay Gap

Baroness Burt of Solihull Excerpts

Tuesday 20th December 2016 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Baroness Burt of Solihull]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government, in the light of findings by the Fawcett Society that at the current rate of progress it will take over 60 years to close the gender pay gap, what steps they are taking to achieve pay parity more quickly.

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, at 18.1% the gender pay gap is the lowest on record, but no gap is acceptable. Increasing transparency will accelerate progress. Delivering on our manifesto commitment, we recently laid regulations requiring large employers to publish their gender pay gap annually. The government-commissioned and independently led Hampton-Alexander review has set challenging targets to ensure that by 2020, 33% of senior leadership positions in the FTSE 100 and 33% of FTSE 350 board directors are women.

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[Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)]

I am very grateful for that Answer. I am sure it is true to say that every Government over the last 40 years have sought to tackle this problem, and the gender pay gap regulations referred to by the Minister and published this month are no exception. The notes to the regulations specify that failure to comply with these regulations constitutes an unlawful act. What sanction do the Government have in mind for the EHRC to impose? Will it be a gentle slap on the wrist or should transgressors be hit where it hurts—in their pockets?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, we do not intend to create additional civil penalties at this time but we can review that if levels of compliance are not satisfactory. As the noble Baroness said, non-compliance will constitute an unlawful act and will fall within the Equality and Human Rights Commission’s existing enforcement powers under the Equality Act 2006. I am grateful to the noble Baroness for bringing up this question and I am pleased to say that the trajectory is heading in a very positive direction.

Gender-based Violence

Baroness Burt of Solihull Excerpts

Thursday 8th December 2016 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Baroness Burt of Solihull]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what action they are continuing to take to bring down the number of women who are victims of gender-based violence.

[Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask a Question of which I have given private notice.

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[Baroness Burt of Solihull]

I am very grateful to the Minister for that Answer. The Women’s Aid and Nia femicide census, published yesterday, paints an extremely worrying picture. Seventy-six per cent of women killed by their ex-partner or ex-spouse were killed in the first year of separation. However, on top of that, today we hear that hundreds of police officers have abused their position of trust to sexually exploit vulnerable people. Can the Minister say what the Government are doing to protect and help women at dangerous and vulnerable times, particularly those who manage to leave abusive relationships to start a new life?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The figures released today are absolutely stark. We welcome the work that Women’s Aid has done on the femicide census, and we are committed to working in partnership with it to help improve the response to domestic homicides. Annual statistics on domestic homicide, with a breakdown by gender, are routinely published. The Office for National Statistics has today published aggregated data on domestic homicides over the last three years, broken down at a police force level. Information on women killed by men is also gathered by the Government through domestic homicide reviews, or DHRs, and we have used those data in a DHR lessons learned analysis, which we published yesterday. We have also published updated statutory guidance for DHRs. We will be providing additional funding to roll out further training for chairs of DHRs, and there will be a series of regional events to embed learning and share best practice.

The noble Baroness also asked about police abuse of authority for sexual gain, which is a very important point. It is another shocking finding. It is important to remember that HMIC findings relate to a very small number of police officers and staff, and the vast majority of over 200,000 police personnel are dedicated and passionate about protecting the public. In the new year, the College of Policing will be releasing updated guidance on police and media relationships. The college has also been asked to consider further the feasibility of developing a new supplementary addendum to the code of ethics. However, that is to take nothing away from the shocking findings of today.

Asylum Detention Centres: Safety

Baroness Burt of Solihull Excerpts

Tuesday 29th November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)]

My Lords, LGBT asylum seekers have already faced persecution in their countries of origin. This report shows that, having risked everything to get here, they are now facing it again. Does the Minister agree that, in order to tackle a problem, you have to quantify it first? Why has the Home Office refused to break down asylum seeker numbers by gender identity and sexual orientation?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, all genuine asylum seekers—LGBT or otherwise—have experienced persecution in the countries from which they have arrived, which is why they are in our country seeking asylum. I stress that detention is used only sparingly: to establish the identity of a person; if there is a reason to believe that a person will fail to comply with conditions; or to effect removal from the UK. But I stress that people genuinely seeking asylum have nothing to fear from seeking asylum in this country. Some of the training has been really improved with regard to the questions asked, particularly of the LGBTI community, because of the sensitivity around their claims.

Foreign Workers: Engineers

Baroness Burt of Solihull Excerpts

Wednesday 10th February 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

I would never say that they are at the right level; we need to do more. However, I think there are many role models and examples of women who have succeeded in the worlds of science and engineering and we need to point to them. We should also encourage more science students to take up the degree-level qualifications required by our growing employment sector.

[Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)]

Does the Minister really think that it is sensible to persist with a net immigration target that actually hinders manufacturers and other businesses from bringing in specially trained staff from overseas, while at the same time freezing in real terms support for further education to train the people we need here at home? What projections have the Government made on the impact that this will have on our competitiveness in the global market?

[Lord Bates]

I do not accept the premise of the question, which is that we are not investing. We are introducing the apprentice levy. We are introducing the immigration skills surcharge. The number of apprenticeships has gone up from 1.5 million to 3 million and that of science and technology apprenticeships by 74%. We are investing £200 million in universities’ science and engineering capital funds. We are doing all those things in the expectation that industry will not then go out shopping for employees overseas but will actually use the talent we have grown here at home.

Female Genital Mutilation

Baroness Burt of Solihull Excerpts

Monday 10th March 2014 Westminster Hall

[Lorely Burt (Solihull) (LD)]

I congratulate the right hon. Member for Leicester East (Keith Vaz), the organisers of the petition and the many thousands of people who were good enough to sign it. The right hon. Gentleman mentioned the lady who had some difficulties when going up to people and asking for signatures in the street, but I do that regularly, so I know that people often do not sign if they do not immediately realise what is being called for. It is not lack of understanding or of compassion; it is just because someone is approaching them on the street. I am sure that those 19 people, as well as the many others who did not respond, would have done so had they begun to appreciate the enormity of the problem.

I will concentrate my contribution on the honour culture, which is from where these practices emanate. I commend to colleagues in the House and anyone listening to the debate the film, “Honor Diaries”, which was premiered in this House last Wednesday. Paula Kweskin, the writer and producer, addressed hon. Members and community and business leaders and spoke about the making of the film. The whole point of the film is that while we respect culture in this country—of course we do—it is no excuse for abuse. I have sent a link to the film to every Member of Parliament and every Member in the other place.

Having watched the film, which is harrowing in places, the basic premise is that in some cultures, a woman is not a person in her own regard. She is part of her family, led by its male members—her husband or her father—and male honour depends on the behaviour of the woman. That is why, in some cultures and some areas, she is so very constrained. In the film, we hear harrowing stories about a girl who dared to look at some boys as she walked past. Any young girl would glance at a boy, but that poor girl had acid thrown over her, just because she did that. The film spoke to a number of men, who were completely open about the fact that their honour is the most important thing; more important than the life and happiness of their child. The film goes through issues including arranged marriage and honour killings, mutilations and whipping as punishments for any perceived infringement of the family honour.

[Bob Stewart]

Perhaps the hon. Lady will go on to explain this, but what is the role of the mother in this arrangement? The mother must have a powerful position within the family and, regardless of what we think, she is pivotal to sorting this issue out.

[Lorely Burt]

One would think so, but that is often not the case. Indeed, I was going to explain that FGM in particular is usually perpetrated by the female extended family. Shocking though that is, the film shows a woman who, because it is part of the culture, does these barbaric acts on children. She says, “The children will not grow up strong. No one will want to marry this girl if she does not have this done.” It is doubly shocking that the mother could be the willing participant in something as awful as that.

This issue is about very basic rights. We have done work in Afghanistan, and we can see the number of girls there who can now go to school. Malala Yousafzai has so strongly raised the right of young girls to go to school, and that has gone all over the world.

[Ms Abbott]

It is absolutely correct to say that more often than not it is mothers and grandmothers who insist on FGM, but let us not forget that these women think they are doing their best for their children. We are talking about cultures that are very invested in FGM, and we need to be careful that we do not sound too judgmental about those women, who are often not very well educated. They genuinely think that FGM is best for their daughters.

[Lorely Burt]

I am grateful for that intervention, but the right hon. Lady gets to the crux of the matter. She says that we should not be too judgmental, but in this country that is exactly what we must be. We must be judgmental about the families who perpetrate the practice. Culture is no excuse for that kind of abuse.

[Ms Abbott]

I am the last person in the world to use culture as an excuse. The fact that we have had no prosecutions is a disgrace, and if I catch the Chair’s eye, I will speak on that issue. None the less, we have to remember that these women think they are genuinely doing the best for their children.

[Lorely Burt]

I take the hon. Lady’s point. Another issue is simply the autonomy of women. The film features an Egyptian lady who is not permitted to drive or to go out unless she is accompanied by a male guardian. Although I catch the hon. Lady’s drift, there should be no room for tolerance of FGM in this country. Even if it is a cultural thing, it cannot be acceptable.

I will briefly address the erudite comments of the right hon. Member for Leicester East on what we need to do in this country. The Government have already done some encouraging things, such as the day of zero tolerance that we had in February and the fact that it is now compulsory in hospitals to report FGM if its perpetration on a patient is detected.

What worries me a lot—it has been discussed a lot—is the spiriting away of children to other countries to have FGM perpetrated on them or to have arranged marriages, with children as young as 10 being married off. The Home Office has managed to obtain £100,000 from the European Commission for community engagement work on FGM, and British charities can bid for up to £10,000 to carry out that work. The Government have appointed a consortium of leading anti-FGM campaigners to deliver a global campaign to end the practice.

We must take affirmative action, and I look forward to the outcome of the inquiry that the Home Affairs Committee is about to undertake. There is so much more that we must do. We in this country are taking the lead, which is entirely appropriate not only because it is the right thing to do, but also because a third of a million people took the trouble to sign the petition for today’s debate. Imagine what else we can do with that kind of groundswell of support behind us.

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[Bob Stewart]

You did it very well.

[Lorely Burt]

Well done.

[Lyn Brown]

Thank you.

If I find it hard to use such language, goodness knows how difficult it must be for a young girl or woman if she needs to talk to someone.

According to my local borough of Newham’s children safeguarding data, there were six recorded cases of female genital mutilation in 2013, and only five cases were reported to the police. In 2007, however, the Foundation for Women’s Health and Development, in collaboration with the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, estimated that the number of maternities to women who had been genitally mutilated in Newham from 2001 to 2004 was between 6.7% and 7.2% a year. Using that as a calculation—rough and open to criticism though it might be—we can estimate that there were between 436 and 467 births in Newham to women who have been mutilated. Evidence shows that the children of women who have been mutilated are at greater risk of mutilation. It is therefore clear that there could be a large disparity between what is reported and what is actually happening in the community. The probable discrepancy in data highlights the need to work with at-risk communities—I hate to use that phrase—to ensure a greater understanding among the professionals charged with supporting victims of genital mutilation.

In response, Newham council has commissioned a female genital mutilation prevention service, which, to my knowledge, is the first of its kind in the country. The service is one of many that sit within the one-stop shop that supports victims of violence against women and girls and was commissioned to intervene when health professionals first become aware that an expectant mother has been genitally mutilated, which normally occurs during routine pregnancy examinations.

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[Guy Opperman]

Far be it from me to disagree with a member of the Committee, particularly before it has begun to sit, but my answer is yes and no. Yes, there is a need for greater awareness of sex education as part of the educational programme that is under way, but I do not think that that of itself will provide a panacea or solution. It is one aspect of the problem.

[Lorely Burt]

Perhaps I may elaborate on what my hon. Friend said. It is not just sex education but sex and relationships education that should be compulsory in every school in the country. Young people do not know how to behave, and that is a great sadness. Things are difficult enough for them when they get to puberty and hormones start rushing. You can give them sex education until you are blue in the face, but without guidance or explanation about how relationships work, that will not help those young people to become responsible, happy adults.

[Guy Opperman]

I endorse the broad thrust of what the hon. Lady says, but that is part of a package of measures. Let us not be blind to what we all acknowledge: there is no one single thing that will change the existing climate, the cultural approach, or the likelihood of a criminal prosecution. There are several different matters, and that is why I welcome the fact that the Home Affairs Committee will consider the matter and make recommendations, just as I welcome today’s debate.

The first issue I wanted to talk about is international prevention. I welcome the fact that the Government, following on the good work of previous Governments, are making international aid money available; the Secretary of State for International Development is committing several million pounds to education around the world, continuing processes established by her predecessors. Surely that must be the start, and there are lessons to learn from countries such as France, which has grasped the issue of the horrendous crime in question. Its approach is robust and no-nonsense, and all credit is due to it.

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[Guy Opperman]

I can assist my hon. Friend. Procedures are in place for prosecutions and, within the confines of the criminal justice and social services systems, whether the child is taken into care or fostered or supported, there are definitely support mechanisms in place. It is not easy. No one should pretend that someone giving evidence against their family members is easy in any way whatsoever. I will come to the degree of support that I want to see, but the individual campaigners must also look hard at their individual communities and ask themselves: where is the flag-bearer? Where is the woman who is prepared to stand up and say, “This has happened to me,” and to suffer what is—let us be blunt—a very embarrassing process? I have prosecuted well over 100 trials and giving evidence of sexual allegations against a lady or a man is exceptionally embarrassing at all times.

[Lorely Burt]

I suggest to my hon. Friend that we are talking about more than embarrassment. By doing that, someone would be dishonouring their own family and the repercussions of that can be much more severe than a little embarrassment.

[Guy Opperman]

I accept that at present the prevailing cultural interpretation is such a dishonouring. But when one compares the situation here with that in France, one sees that, slowly but surely, it has become the case that failing to come forward to make such a case is dishonouring the culture and community of which they are so proud to be a part. In the 21st century, it cannot be an appropriate part of that culture and community to condone, allow and positively encourage the continuation of this abhorrent act. In the French communities, we see a change in perception, with support for those individuals who give evidence from the very same people who perhaps five or 10 or 15 or 20 years ago would have named and shamed and made life very difficult for those individuals. That is an example of a country that has moved further forward and the impact of that change.

I come back to the point that this is an offence. Of course, we want to stop any such offending taking place now. Huge efforts will be made by successive Governments and various aspects of Government to stop this happening now, but the best possible preventive measure would be a successful prosecution for something that has taken place in the past. Again, I make the very strong point to the individual communities—they all know who they are—where such offending is taking place. They all have to consider this: given that well over 100,000 people in this country have suffered this fate, if the evidence is there and they have not come forward thus far, they are letting their community down if they do not come forward.

I want to discuss law change. I know and worked with the previous Director of Public Prosecutions, Keir Starmer, who was an outstanding DPP. I do not know the present DPP—partly because I am so old and I was not practising when she was—[Interruption.] I am ageing fast. In her submissions earlier this year, she makes the fair point that it is possible that the law may need to be changed. As I understand the legal framework, if I were a prosecutor and the individual who had committed the offence was not a UK resident, it would be exceptionally difficult to pursue that prosecution. The Select Committee needs to look at that and it would be well advised to address that. However, while many are being taken away in order for cutting to take place, there are those who are definitely performing that act in this country, and they will have records and payment systems, so there is plentiful evidence that these things took place. Examinations should be done. Where a victim has suffered that crime in this country, where a prosecution is so much easier to pursue, and continues to live in this country, that is the best potential avenue for successful prosecutions, and that should be the direction of travel for the Crown Prosecution Service.

I finish on the issue of legal processes. When I started prosecuting in 1990, there was no such thing as a victim’s statement. The victim gave their witness statement and then, even in sexual cases, they gave evidence live. There were no screens and no TV monitors, and judges and counsel were not trained. We have advanced light years in the past 20 or so years: successive Governments have introduced everything from police officers who are trained to take statements, to processes that make it much easier for children to give evidence, and training for individual judges. I could go on. My point is this: just as we had to train judges, counsel and court staff in how to handle sexual offences cases—particularly child-based sexual offences, such as the abuse of five to eight-year-olds, who then have to give evidence in some shape or form—as the Home Affairs Committee reviews this matter and as the processes are gone through, we must make very sure that the appropriate mechanisms are in place, and that the appropriate judges and counsel are in place, to address this type of prosecution and take that forward.

Such a prosecution will not be easy to bring. It needs to be done with great sensitivity and profound awareness of all the cultural problems. I had not intended to speak, Mr Robertson, but I thank you for your indulgence.

Modern-day Slavery

Baroness Burt of Solihull Excerpts

Thursday 5th December 2013 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Selous (South West Bedfordshire) (Con)]

It is a great honour and privilege to speak in this important debate. It is significant that it is entitled “Modern-day slavery”. A few years ago it might have been entitled “Human trafficking”, but of course modern-day slavery encompasses human trafficking but goes wider, because one of the many terrible truths about the issue is that there are British slaves who are moved from one part of our country to another, or indeed overseas, to be forced to work in slavery.

It is worth putting the whole issue in context. The United Nations estimates that some 27 million people are today living in modern-day slavery around the world, which is more than there were in Wilberforce’s day. When I was young I learned my history and was taught, as most of us were, that Wilberforce and many others had abolished slavery, so it is a real indictment of us, in 2013, to see the extent of slavery around the world and, indeed, in our own country.

The issue is both global, because there are international criminal business networks, and intensely local. As my right hon. Friend the Member for Uxbridge and South Ruislip (Sir John Randall) explained, it could be happening on our own streets or yards away from our constituency offices, and of course it is very difficult to spot. The awful truth is that huge amounts of money are being made by the slave owners and traffickers. If their labour costs are virtually nil, they can make a great deal of money from their business. Sheer greed and the evil of one human being wanting to exploit another for financial gain are at the heart of what we are talking about today.

I was made aware of the issue a couple of years ago while on a church holiday with my family. We heard a presentation from the A21 Campaign, one of the many excellent groups fighting modern-day slavery. I was convinced then that it was an issue I should study, devote time to and work on, with colleagues on both sides of the House and many influential people outside, to try to do something about it.

I had already set that course when, back in the late summer of 2011, I received a phone call from Bedfordshire police to tell me that there would be a major police operation in my constituency on Sunday morning. They could not give me more details, because it had to be secret, but I was told that I would be briefed later that morning. That morning, some 200 police officers from both Bedfordshire and Hertfordshire police moved on to a Traveller site in a small—I might even say sleepy—village in south Bedfordshire. There they discovered 23 modern-day slaves, some of whom had been on the site for up to 15 years. They were mainly British citizens.

Those modern-day slaves had been picked up in the most appalling circumstances, generally at one of the lowest points in their lives. Some of them were picked up from homeless hostels. One gentleman had even been on a bridge and about to commit suicide. They had been picked up under the most terrible false pretences. They had been told that they would be paid £80 a day, given board and lodging, looked after and included in the general family in the place they had been taken to. If a person is down and out and life is not particularly good, I guess that seems quite a good offer.

The reality was horrifyingly and shockingly different. They were taken to the Traveller site. On arrival, their heads were shaved, as happened to the victims in the concentration camps, for hygiene purposes. Many of them were forced to live in horse boxes. They had no washing facilities, although they were taken to the local leisure centre on a Friday evening, purely because on Saturdays they were shown to potential clients to try to get more business. Their owners did not want them to smell on Saturday mornings, but it did not really matter if they smelled the rest of the week.

They had to clean the immaculate homes of the people who were exploiting them, but they were not given any toilet facilities themselves. They had to watch wonderful food being prepared for the people they worked for, but they were given meagre portions of a sloppy stew to eat. They were often woken at 5 o’clock in the morning and taken in a van, often for miles around, and occasionally overseas to various countries, and forced to do hard manual labour all day. They were brought back late at night and the same thing happened again and again. On some occasions they did not even know when it was Christmas day. That was the reality of their lives for, as I said, up to 15 years. Like my right hon. Friend the Member for Uxbridge and South Ruislip, I have met some of the people on the site.

What was even more terrible for me, as the local Member of Parliament, was that I had previously been round that Traveller site with Bedfordshire police looking for children who had been truanting from school. I was on the site, I looked with my own eyes, and I missed what was going on because, as my right hon. Friend said, slaves today are not like they were in the past. They are not visible, they do not have a ball and chain, and they are not paraded around, obvious to see—they can look like you and me.

That was my experience of what happened in my own constituency. The general point I would make to all Members is that whether they represent a metropolitan constituency or one like mine made up of market towns and villages, if this sort of thing can happen in a sleepy south Bedfordshire village, it can happen anywhere in the country.

[Lorely Burt (Solihull) (LD)]

My hon. Friend is relating a truly shocking story that invites one to speculate on how many other places this could be happening in. Is he aware of other circumstances; and what can we do, as MPs, to ensure that the same thing does not happen in our own constituencies?

[Andrew Selous]

I am extremely grateful for the hon. Lady’s intervention. The awful truth is that what happened in that village in my constituency was not an isolated incident. There have been, to my knowledge, at least two almost identical incidents elsewhere in the country—one in Gloucestershire and one in south Wales not so long ago—and I do not think that is the end of it. It was not isolated; it is ongoing, and it takes many forms.

The hon. Lady asked, very practically, what we can do. There is no point in our just coming here and describing terrible things: we have to be purposeful. Let me describe a very practical solution from Bedfordshire that has already been mentioned a couple of times. For me, the key issue about what happened in my constituency was that these slaves had, in the main, been doing block paving work on people’s drives and so would have been highly visible to many of my constituents and many people elsewhere for miles around, yet the shocking thing is that no customer—no one at home looking out at the workmen and women on their drive—thought, “Something might not be quite right here.”

When I went on the “Today” programme to talk about the incident, my main message, therefore, was that this an issue of public awareness. We have talked about the role of the police and we will no doubt talk about local authorities as well. The police and local authorities need the public on their side to be their eyes and ears and to pass on intelligence. Rather than do nothing, it is a thousand times better to ring 999 or Crimestoppers to say, “About the workmen on my drive—I might be imagining it but I think they looked a bit under duress and something wasn’t quite right. This is the name of the company I used—could you check it out, please?”

We have gone a step further in Bedfordshire, where Councillor Kristy Adams of Bedford borough council has produced a set of little cards. I know we are not supposed to use props in the Chamber, Madam Deputy Speaker, but perhaps on this occasion, and for this cause, you might excuse me. They are very simple little cards. I have been giving them out for months to anyone who will listen. I have given some to the Minister, to Anthony Steen and to others. I am glad to be able to talk about them now, even though I cannot show them too widely. The card says:

“Is the person you are with a victim of Modern Slavery?”

It gives a few pointers to look for:

“Doesn’t know home/work address?...Expression of fear, distrust, anxiety?...As an individual or group movements are restricted by others?...Limited contact with family and/or friends?...Money deducted from salary for food and/or accommodation?...Passports/documents held by someone else?”

It then says:

“Recognise any of the above? Please call 999 or Crimestoppers 0800 555 1111.”

On the back, there is a bit of a description of modern slavery and reference to a number of charities—Hope for Justice, the Salvation Army, and Stop the Traffick—and to local safeguarding teams.

I have been wanting the Home Office to produce cards like this. I do not know whether this card gives perfect information, but we decided in Bedfordshire to get on and do something about the issue, which I have been raising with Ministers for about two years. I would love the Government to produce something like this that they are completely happy with and put it up on a website so that people all over the country could print it out. I have got a pocketful of these cards to give out. We could help in all our constituencies if every community group, faith group and local authority had similar cards that people could put on the fridge, their desk or wherever, just to get them thinking about this and being the eyes and ears of the police.

[Lorely Burt]

In my constituency we got taxi drivers to put a note up in their vehicles explaining what could be happening and asked them to be vigilant about the people they are carrying.

[Andrew Selous]

I think that is an excellent initiative and we could all encourage precisely that sort of thing in our own constituencies.

The next issue I want to address is the assets of the slave owners. As I said at the start of my speech, unsurprisingly a lot of them are extremely wealthy. They have very big assets as a result of their evil activities. We need help to move that money a lot more quickly towards compensating the police and others who take action to deal with it. Mounting an operation with 200 officers is not a cheap business. It takes months of intelligence, senior officer time, a dedicated operations room and a lot of overtime pay.

Italy has been much more successful than us in confiscating the assets of slave owners and getting them to the authorities that deal with the issue or to the victims as compensation. The key difference is that Italy freezes the assets of traffickers within 48 hours of an arrest. Will the Minister take note of that and consider including it in the modern slavery Bill?

Intelligence and Security Services

Baroness Burt of Solihull Excerpts

Thursday 31st October 2013 Westminster Hall

[Dr Huppert]

I agree. It is interesting that a clear effort is being made to focus on The Guardian rather than the wider issues, which affect more of us.

We must ensure that the laws and guidance available to the staff of our intelligence and security services are clear, and that we ourselves understand the framework in which we expect them to operate. President Obama put it well when he said that what they are able to do is not necessarily what they should do. He called for additional constraints on how we gather and use intelligence, and said we need to weigh the risks and rewards of activities more effectively. Our Prime Minister agreed in a European statement:

“A lack of trust could prejudice the necessary cooperation in the field of intelligence gathering”.

This is a global issue acknowledged by world leaders. We should be talking about it here.

[Lorely Burt (Solihull) (LD)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on obtaining this important debate. Next week, the director general of MI5, the chief of MI6 and the director of GCHQ will all give evidence in person before a parliamentary Committee, which is welcome. In light of the reviews being carried out in America following the revelations there, does my hon. Friend agree that if the responses given by those three individuals are not entirely satisfactory, there might be a case for considering a review of accountability in the United Kingdom?

[Dr Huppert]

There is definitely a strong case for it. I am pleased that those people will appear in public, as there has been a long tradition of reluctance about talking about such issues. A senior Home Office civil servant has even refused to give public evidence at the Home Affairs Committee; that, fortunately, is about to change.

When the Foreign Secretary spoke at the London conference on cyberspace in 2011, he championed freedom of expression and privacy online, and he specifically criticised Governments who incorporate surveillance tools into their internet infrastructure. I agree that that is a problem. He also said at that conference that

“it is increasingly clear that countries with weak cyber defences and capabilities will find themselves exposed over the long term”.

The Foreign Secretary is right. That is why it is a problem when people break encryption systems. If anyone—whether it is the US, the UK or anybody else—puts a back door in an otherwise secure system in order to access it for intelligence purposes, that makes it easier for anybody else to break the protections, whether they are from the intelligence community or cyber-criminals. It makes no sense to argue that we should defend cyber-security and simultaneously be part of the effort to break it. If that means that we can no longer rely on the encryption of financial transactions, for example, that would be catastrophic for the global economy.