Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Bill

Debate between Baroness Brinton and Lord Morris of Handsworth

Monday 4th March 2013 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Brinton]

My Lords, I, too, support the sentiments and comments made by all noble Lords who have spoken. I will add one further point. The distinction between compliance and a general duty implies that there is no need for anything until the point of compliance. However, many issues that relate to people with protected characteristics are often cultural, and may not get to a point where compliance is necessary straightaway. It would be much better for that culture—for example, the treatment of adults with learning disabilities, perhaps in one or two homes before it starts to gather momentum—if there were a general duty on the sector, and if the commission could go in, offer support and start to change the culture before a crisis develops that requires compliance. I echo the sentiments of others who have spoken before, and very much hope that the Government will reconsider the deletion of Section 3.

[Lord Morris of Handsworth]

My Lords, I, too, support the amendment. Section 3 represents more than a statement. It represents a commitment to the principles of equality—equality of opportunity, equality of dignity and the responsibility of the state to its citizens.

The EHRC needs a benchmark, a flag, by which it can promote the principles on which it was founded. It needs to be measured, not against the principles of race, disability or gender, but in a much wider context, because it makes a statement about the sort of society we are, the aspirations that we hold for ourselves, and the signals that we send far and wide.

In that context, if the amendment before this House is not embraced, we will be sending a negative statement. We will be saying that after all that we have achieved over many years in terms of race, gender, disability and children, we have turned around and are heading in a totally different direction. It is not my belief that that is the Government’s intention: I believe that the Government’s intention is to continue to improve the standards and opportunities of all their citizens. However, in any journey, we all sometimes take a wrong turn; I genuinely believe that on this occasion, the Government—with all their good intentions—have got it wrong. It is for those reasons that I ask the Minister to look again and to say to the Government that so much depends on their credibility with a vast swathe of this nation and its citizens that to take this wrong turn would be an inevitable downgrading of the concept of equality of opportunity for all. We all believe in that principle and it is in that spirit that I support the amendment, but more importantly, I ask the Government to think again.

Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Bill

Debate between Baroness Brinton and Lord Morris of Handsworth

Wednesday 5th December 2012 Grand Committee

[Lord Morris of Handsworth]

It is accepted that ultimately the decision is on a point of law, but the law is guided by the facts of the case. Therefore, it is important to recognise that facts guide law. On the basis of what has been said so far, it seems to me that we are turning the argument on its head in thinking that it is only law and not fact.

[Baroness Brinton]

Does the Minister agree that appeals on employment law are set firmly in the context of employment practice? Concepts such as the range of reasonable response depend on a good understanding of how a reasonable employer would in practice handle a dismissal. Therefore there is a value to having lay members assisting the judge in that decision.