Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland: Energy Supply Shortfalls

Baroness Brinton Excerpts

Monday 21st November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

Yes, co-operation is ongoing and all Ministers are receiving regular updates. Actually, the island of Ireland as a whole is less dependent on gas for heating than the UK: about one-third of its heating depends on natural gas, but about 80% of ours does. There is a much higher reliance on both electricity and fuel oil for heating in Northern Ireland and southern Ireland.

[Baroness Brinton (LD)]

My Lords, in the light of the answer that the Minister has just given, I will ask him a question about England that I have asked in the past and that he will be familiar with. In the event of electricity supply cuts, what arrangements are available in Northern Ireland for people who have to rely on ventilators and other life-critical kit at home? Whom do they go to?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I had an exchange with the noble Baroness a few weeks ago about this vital matter, which is of course of great concern to us. Established provisions are in place in England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland for vulnerable customers to be supplied temporarily.

Energy Prices Bill

Baroness Brinton Excerpts

Committee stage
Monday 24th October 2022 Lords Chamber

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Geddes) (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness, Lady Thomas of Winchester, is taking part remotely and I invite her to speak. She does not seem to be technically available at present; it is therefore open to any other noble Lord to speak to this amendment.

[Baroness Brinton (LD)]

My Lords, first, I apologise for being unable to be present at Second Reading. I am speaking to Amendment 12, which my noble friend Lady Thomas of Winchester has also signed. It sets up the mechanism for the Secretary of State to have a strategic plan for very vulnerable people who would be extremely adversely affected by power outages—for some, probably resulting in death—and for the requirement on energy suppliers to work with the local resilience forums, which are tasked with delivering local emergency plans in communities.

I read the impact assessment with interest. On page 28, paragraph 70, headed “Disability or vulnerability”, states:

“Of those surveyed … by the ONS Wealth and Assets Survey, over 40% of adults in Great Britain have a combined financial and property wealth below £23,249. Of those poorer households 41% have a physical or mental disability ... Furthermore, households with energy-using health equipment will typically be associated with higher energy use and stand to benefit more from the volumetric scheme”.


The Minister may remember that I raised the issue of ensuring electricity supply to the most vulnerable disabled and seriously ill people, who may die if their home electricity supply is not maintained, on 11 October 2022 when the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy of Cradley, asked a Question on energy pricing. I cited our family’s experience when my granddaughter, then aged two, who had to use a ventilator and a heart monitor faced a power outage on her south London estate. I thank the Minister for his response to my question and his being keen to reassure me and the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay of Llandaff, but I was concerned that BEIS Ministers may not be aware of what is happening in practice and how serious the problem is.

Since 11 October, I have talked to others who rely on ventilators, dialysis machines and other equipment at home. It is clear that the reality of what happened to my granddaughter in a small-scale electrical outage in south London about four years ago is, in practice, not unusual. Let me explain the process. On the advice of the consultants at the Evelina London Children’s Hospital, and as a condition of her being allowed to leave hospital for the first time aged 11 months, my son had brought her home and registered with their energy supplier that she required ventilation and a heart monitor for about 17 hours out of every 24. Without it, she would have to be taken back to the specialist hospital as her lung capacity put her at high risk of death as her oxygen levels would plummet quickly.

My son had understood that the supplier would ensure that there was an alternative supply as soon as possible. On the evening of the outage, my son called the emergency line, who were encouraging: they were on the list for an emergency generator to be delivered to their house. After one hour, it had not arrived. They were told that it could take another two hours. At that time, and because my granddaughter was still quite small, he bundled her and all her medical kit—believe me, a carful—and drove to our house, an hour away. Believe me, if you have watched a small child struggling for breath, you do not hang around.

There is absolutely no doubt that the register of vulnerable users is helpful. However, the reality of a power cut means that the small batteries in those items that they have as a back-up will not last for many hours, especially if the outage is not planned and people do not know how long it will last for. That is why the suppliers knew that they had to get a generator to my granddaughter’s house. But they failed.

My concern is that, in the event of mass outages in the cold months of January and February next year, however unlikely, much larger swathes of the country will lose electricity in a number of hours. National Grid was predicting even worse last week—even if that is also deemed to be highly unlikely—and it might mean that the whole country would be without power from late afternoon until late at night for a number of days a week in January and February.

The Disability News Service picked up on the questions that the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, and I asked. John Pring at the DNS has been investigating current practice and how large outages would be handled by the energy suppliers, so he rang them. They said, “Talk to the Department of BEIS”, so he rang BEIS, which said, “Talk to the Department of Health and Social Care”—I have no idea why. The DHSC has not even replied, probably because it is not involved in emergency provision planning.

Many disability groups are very concerned about this coming winter too, as they, like my family, have experience of support in an emergency not being quite what was expected. Neither BEIS nor the DHSC seemed aware that the energy suppliers should be talking to their local resilience forums, run by each local authority, which have a statutory duty under the Civil Contingencies Act 2004 to deliver their local emergency health plan in the event of such an incident. However, directors of public health whom I have talked to, who are jointly employed by their authority and by the NHS, are core to LRFs, and they say that talking to energy suppliers is extremely difficult.

It is important to be clear that not all help for those whose lives depend on electricity will be on the register. Those registered with suppliers will include the elderly and the frail who must be kept warm, but they do not need individual generators at home. The LRFs need to plan with energy suppliers where generators will go in community halls or other planned venues and how vulnerable people will be taken to that venue. The current advice from suppliers to disabled people on their helpline is—wait for it—get a thermos and more battery packs. I have to say that that is causing alarm, and it tells me that proper planning is not going on, and people who are supposed to be giving advice do not know what it should be. That is also confirmed by the directors of public health whom I have talked to.

Under the Civil Contingencies Act 2004, local resilience forums are level 1 responders, and energy suppliers are level 2 responders. Energy suppliers keep the register and must liaise with them. The problem is that at the moment the LRFs are entirely reliant on the energy suppliers communicating with them. As with Covid, when the local resilience forums played a fantastic role as we went into lockdown in their communities, the possibility of a serious outage means that there needs to be real planning now because, otherwise, people will die in a power cut. All the elements needed are available through various duties on differing people; the problem is that they are not joined up. Hence my amendment, which is to try to join up the key partners at a national level through the powers of the Secretary of State to create a strategic plan, while ensuring an action plan at a local level which gives a duty to energy suppliers to maintain contact with their local resilience forums.

--- Later in debate ---

In conclusion, I have sought to assure noble Lords who tabled amendments in this group that the Government are committed to energy efficiency and supporting vulnerable consumers. Therefore, I hope they will perhaps not press their amendments—but looking at the gathering of the clans, I suspect not.

[Baroness Brinton (LD)]

I asked the Minister whether he would meet me, the noble Baroness, Lady Thomas, and representatives of disabled peoples’ organisations. I think I heard him say that this was more appropriately handled by the Cabinet Office. Would he help me to ensure that this same group, including myself, could meet the relevant Minister in the Cabinet Office on this issue?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I will certainly reply, although of course I cannot speak for Cabinet Office Ministers. I checked and they do have responsibility for ensuring that the Civil Contingencies Act is followed and implemented. I will certainly do my best to facilitate what the noble Baroness wants.

Prepayment Meters: Pricing

Baroness Brinton Excerpts

Tuesday 11th October 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

Happily, on this matter I can partly agree with the noble Baroness, which will shock her. Some renewables are considerably cheaper than gas- fired generation, although it varies—we are experiencing a price spike in gas at the moment. That is one of the reasons why we have in place the largest programme of offshore wind in Europe; we have the second-highest level in the world, and it is something we want to ramp up greatly, to 50 gigawatts by 2030, because at the moment it is the cheapest form of generation.

[Baroness Brinton (LD)]

My Lords, to return to the question asked by the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, I thank the Minister for saying that the Government will do all they can to provide a secure electricity supply, particularly to seriously ill disabled children who may be using ventilators and other equipment. My family has experience of this; when there was a cut on the south London estate where my three year-old granddaughter was—she had to have a ventilator and a heart monitor—it took over three hours before the generator arrived, even though she was on the list. The scale of the cuts, if they happen, will be of a different magnitude. It is an enormous undertaking, so I would be really grateful if the Minister could make sure that this facility is available to not just children but other people who use this life-saving equipment at home.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

Of course I can give the noble Baroness that assurance; we will do all we can to protect the most vulnerable. We all recognise the difficult circumstances that such people would be in, but our top priority is to make sure that there are no interruptions to supply at all. That is one of the reasons why we are ramping up efforts to make sure that we have enough energy to serve the UK this winter.

Trade Talks with India, Greenland and Israel

Baroness Brinton Excerpts

Wednesday 9th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Speaker (Lord McFall of Alcluith)]

I call the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, to speak virtually.

[Baroness Brinton (LD) [V]]

My Lords, the Government have inserted in the Health and Care Bill, which is currently going through your Lordships’ House, a clause on reciprocal healthcare agreements beyond the existing arrangements with the EU, EEA and Switzerland, because we know they work well. Will reciprocal healthcare agreements form part of the trade talks with India, Greenland and Israel?

[Lord Grimstone of Boscobel (Con)]

My Lords, I am not yet in a position to give an answer on that. We are at the very beginning of our journey with India but, as always, we will report progress to the House as the talks progress.

EU Coronavirus Vaccine Programme

Baroness Brinton Excerpts

Monday 13th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

I am afraid the noble Lord is wrong on his first point, but on his supplementary points I can agree with him. I can confirm that we are supporting a number of different research platforms and vaccine technologies, both through our discussions with companies and through our global efforts, alongside helping to fund research on a vaccine at Oxford University with the help of AstraZeneca. We have committed £250 million of UK aid to the Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovations, an organisation that is working on a global scale to develop a Covid-19 vaccine.

[Baroness Brinton (LD) [V]]

In April, the World Health Organization said that countries must work together to develop a number of Covid-19 vaccines that have concluded successful clinical trials and demonstrate that they can manufacture many millions of doses faster than ever achieved before—none of which is a given. The UK was a signatory to the following World Health Organization declaration:

“We will continue efforts to strengthen the unprecedented worldwide collaboration, cooperation … and we will work tenaciously to increase the likelihood that one or more safe … vaccines will soon be made available to all.”


On this basis, why are the UK Government still refusing to collaborate with the EU vaccine scheme?

[Lord Callanan]

I did not catch all of that question; the audio was a bit poor. If the noble Baroness is saying that we should continue to co-operate on an international level, I would completely agree with her. I set out earlier the reasons why we did not think it was right to participate in this particular EU initiative, but we do not rule out participating in other EU procurement initiatives and we are in discussions on how we might do that.

Parental Bereavement Leave Regulations 2020

Baroness Brinton Excerpts

Tuesday 3rd March 2020 Grand Committee

[Lord Knight of Weymouth (Lab)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for his introduction to these regulations, which I support. I am grateful to the department, and the Government, for bringing them forward. Their importance was brought home to me yet again last year when a work colleague at TES—my interests are in the register—lost a child through stillbirth at the moment of delivery. Having been a part of these discussions for nigh on 10 years, I felt better equipped to provide what support I could. I am happy to say that TES acted as a responsible employer, as the vast majority are, in giving Tara the support that she needed.

These regulations bring into effect the law that we brought through and mark the end of a campaign. It may be unfashionable to say so these days, but it is affirming to note that an individual, Lucy Herd, whose son Jack died 10 years ago, was able to campaign and then use the democratic and parliamentary process to effect a change in the law. She did so by securing all-party support of Members in both Houses. As noble Lords know, I first met her, and discussed her campaign, in a TV studio relatively soon after Jack died. She used the system for No. 10 petitions, as well as change.org, a slightly more sophisticated petitioning website to capture more data and more stories, which were really helpful. I introduced her to the then MP for Glasgow Cathcart, Tom Harris, who introduced a 10-minute rule Bill. That was the first time the issue was introduced in Parliament as part of a campaign.

Lucy was then able to contact those who had signed the petition to let them know that that was happening. I was then able to bring it to this House for the first time, with the Children and Families Act 2014. I am delighted to see the noble Viscount, Lord Younger of Leckie, in his place. He was good enough to meet Lucy and me to discuss the issue then and, in the end, we agreed that we would accept his kind offer that ACAS would issue guidance to employers on this and we would see how it went.

After the 2015 general election, when Will Quince was elected as a Member of Parliament, he raised the issue through an unsuccessful Private Member’s Bill. Mr Quince was able to help get it into the Conservative manifesto for the 2017 election, and then Kevin Hollinrake was able to secure a Private Member’s Bill slot and get it through. The goal was then wide open and I was able to put the ball in the back of the net, thanks to support from Front-Benchers, who are all here today.

I am delighted that when the previous Secretary of State announced that these regulations were forthcoming, the department used Lucy as part of the PR; she had another moment with the media to remember Jack and mark the success of her campaign. It was a nice bookend to the whole experience.

It is worth saying that Parliament and democracy can work. When a case is made intelligently, when all the systems are used well and when politicians on all sides in both Houses are willing to listen—that is not necessarily always the case—we can get great things done. This is a significant thing that we are doing.

I want to say one other thing, almost in parentheses. The noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, has a point to make on benefits and the Department for Work and Pensions. I will not steal her thunder, but I am fully supportive of what I think she is about to say. I want to make sure that Ministers who are listening on this issue hear that. With that, I reiterate my support for the regulations and look forward to them being implemented next month.

[Baroness Brinton (LD)]

I thank the Minister for introducing these regulations. I pay tribute to Lucy Herd, who as we have heard has been campaigning for nearly a decade. When I first learned of the campaign, I knew that it would take a while because the issue is not one that affects many families. Not many families or their wider circle of friends will know somebody who has lost a child or are aware of a stillbirth. I give credit not just to Lucy but to the noble Lord, Lord Knight, Will Quince and Kevin Hollinrake for all the work they have done to ensure that this never lost the eye of Ministers. We may all collectively have been a thorn in their flesh, including myself over the past four or five years, but I am delighted that we have now got to the point where these regulations are coming into play.

I note particularly that account has been taken of the definition of “parent”. I was an informal foster parent. I was not a kinship carer but I had parental responsibility for two children after their mother died, so I am very grateful for that. It is because of such funny modern-day family situations that we need a regulation broad enough to recognise that when people are personally involved and have a responsibility, no employer or state system should say that they do not have the right to receive parental bereavement leave.

I am also grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Callanan, who kindly gave me an in to the issue that I want to raise, which I appreciate is not within the remit of BEIS. However, I raised this repeatedly during the passage of the Bill and I want to do so again.

I understand why the decision was made that self-employed parents will not be in receipt of this benefit because they are not in receipt of many other benefits. However, there is a serious inequity for parents, especially those who have stopped working, often for many years, because of the serious medical difficulty that their child has had. They have done so knowing that their child will die. The fact is that under our current system, the day after the child dies, they lose their disability benefit and carer benefit and, shockingly, they have to apply immediately for benefits. I remind the Grand Committee, because I raised this on the Bill, of the words of one parent who wrote:

“The day after, I applied for jobseeker’s allowance, wanting to buy myself a little extra time to grieve before returning to some sort of work, only to be told that because I hadn’t worked in 10 years, I was ineligible, despite the fact that in those 10 years I had worked harder and for many more hours than the average person. The fact that I had saved the Government and the NHS hundreds of thousands of pounds by providing my son with hourly complex medical care counted for nothing. You are told to man up, move on, get a job, pay the bills. Provide for your remaining family.”


That inequity still remains. The noble Lord, Lord Callanan, referred to unemployed parents not being covered but said that the DWP will keep this under review. It will do more than that because the campaign for these parents starts today.

[Lord Hendy (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for introducing the regulations, the noble Lord, Lord Knight, and all those he mentioned for introducing the Parental Bereavement (Leave and Pay) Act 2018 which gives the power to make the regulations we are considering today. I shall raise three short points. The first is one that the Minister referred to in his speech, which is that these benefits are available only to employees. This raises a critical issue in labour law and indeed it is one that has beset labour law for centuries: different legal statuses are attached to different kinds of worker. The consequence of having a different status is that one is entitled to different employment rights. This issue will perhaps be dealt with in the forthcoming Employment Bill which I understand will deal with the Matthew Taylor report and contain some measures in relation to that.

The issue is that employees are entitled to more rights than other categories of worker. At one end of the spectrum one has the employee while at the other end one has the genuinely self-employed in business on his or her own account. In between, we have what lawyers call the limb (b) worker; that is to say, a worker under Section 230(3)(b) of the Employment Rights Act 1996, which is a worker under a contract that is not a contract of employment and not working for a client or a customer of a business of that worker. In effect, it is a kind of employee but not quite an employee. The consequence of being a limb (b) worker is that one does not have the same array of employment rights as an employee. There is a fourth category which is what lawyers call the false self-employed, which is somebody who appears to be self-employed because that is how the employer has designated him or her, but in reality and on examination in the courts or tribunals turns out to be an employee or indeed a limb (b) worker.

The point I make to the Minister is that there is really no justification for confining the right to bereavement leave or pay to those who are employees and not extending it to limb (b) workers. I appreciate that these regulations could not confer the benefit on limb (b) workers because the Act itself confines those benefits to employees, but when the Employment Bill comes to be drafted, this is something that could be addressed. There can be no doubt that limb (b) workers will suffer just as much grief and tragedy over the loss of a child as an employee. In his speech, the Minister suggested that the justification for this might be that all parental leave under the Employment Rights Act is confined to employees, but that is not really a justification for excluding limb (b) workers from the benefit of parental bereavement leave or pay.

Parental Bereavement (Leave and Pay) Bill

Baroness Brinton Excerpts

2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Friday 29th June 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Brinton (LD)]

My Lords, I endorse the comments made by the noble Lord, Lord Knight of Weymouth, and particularly thank Lucy Herd and the many other campaigners who have spent years trying to bring this legislation to and through Parliament. I also pay tribute in particular to Kevin Hollinrake and Will Quince for their determined work in another place. I know that many other MPs spoke during the passage of the Bill in the Commons who also outlined how important it was, many of them citing their personal experience. I also thank the National Bereavement Alliance, Together for Short Lives and Bliss for their briefings, which have been extremely helpful.

As with most people who have chosen to speak on this Bill, both here and in another place, I have personal experience of some of the issues. I had a series of miscarriages when I was young; my eldest son would have been 40 this year. After one of my subsequent miscarriages, not at 24 weeks but quite late on, I can remember the doctor patting me on the leg and saying, “There, there, dear, the best thing for you is to get up and go back to work tomorrow. Get over it quickly”. I watched friends cross to the other side of the street because they knew that it was yet another miscarriage. I have talked to parents who have lost their children. They find the same thing.

Child bereavement is still something that most people find very difficult to talk about. When we look at how it affects employers, it can be even worse. There can be complete ignorance about the pain that parents go through in the last few days or even months of a child’s long-term illness, or with the shock of a sudden death. Employers do not know how to react, so I am delighted with the ACAS guidance and the fact that the National Bereavement Alliance worked with ACAS to make sure that guidance is there.

The problem is that not all the employers who need to know about the guidance will know about it. Nearly 20 years ago, when I was a senior manager, I was aware of another case where the two year-old child of the employee of a young manager died of leukaemia after a very short illness, by cancer standards, of two or three months. This manager’s boss came to see her the next day to say, “We have given this parent too much paid time off. She’s got to take unpaid time off for the funeral”. The young manager concerned said, “I’m not prepared for that”, ended up having a flaming row and stood their ground. The parent was allowed paid time off. It is interesting to note that neither of the two managers is still working for that employer, whereas the bereaved parent still is.

That is part of the problem: many parents cannot explain fully the experience that they have been through. I know that your Lordships’ House will know that I been working with Nascot Lawn, a centre for children with multiple difficulties, many of whose parents know that they will not achieve adulthood, that has just been closed by the NHS. I will quote briefly from the blog of Nikki, the mother of Lennon, who died last summer, writing in that immediate aftermath of the death. Although it was expected, it was a shock. She said:

“Lennon’s bedroom remains more or less untouched. His fishbowl bed still has pride of place in the middle of the room. The medical trolley is still brimming with dressings and medical equipment. His freshly washed clothes on the dresser waiting to be put away in the drawers. All his medical emergency plans and equipment lists still fixed to the backs of doors.


I know I need to sort through all of Lennon’s belongings and clothes.


But not yet, not just yet.


Keech Hospice have been amazing. Faye has been a godsend, my fairy godmother. I went to visit the hospice to collect all of Lennon’s belongings and the memory items that the nurses had made … She took me to the Job Centre for some advice on money. She felt my pain when we left. Not only are the 10 and half years I spent caring for Lennon and working tirelessly as an unqualified”,


high dependency nurse,

“to keep my child alive, was not recognised in the eyes of the Department of Work and Pensions, but … there is nothing anyone can do to help us financially until I feel able to return to work”.

That is why, while the period of 56 days mentioned in the Bill is great, there will be times when we should look at extending it or making that period of time more flexible. This is particularly true in cases such as those referred to by the noble Lord, Lord Knight, where there has been a sudden death, and there may be an inquest or meetings with lawyers leading up to that. I hope that it will be possible to meet the Minister, and perhaps the Minister in another place dealing with the consultation, to discuss why we need to be so rigid and whether some flexibility can be built in.

I have one more point from Nikki. She wrote:

“I applied for job seekers allowance, wanting to buy myself a little extra time to grieve before returning to some form of work. Only to be told that because I hadn’t ‘worked’ in 10 years I was ineligible. Despite the fact that in those 10 years, I had worked harder and for many more hours than the average person. The fact that I had saved the government and the NHS hundreds of thousands of pounds by providing my son with hourly complex medical care counts for nothing ... You are told to man up—move on. Get a job. Pay the bills. Provide for your remaining family”.


It is clear that the benefit and support structure is lacking, especially for parent carers. One thing I hope will come out of the Government’s consultation is guidance for jobcentres and the Department for Work and Pensions on the tribulations and difficulties that many parents with child bereavement face—both those who expect a death and those who face a sudden death—because it is an experience that very few people will go through.

The National Bereavement Alliance also talks about the chance to increase up to 25 the age at which parental pay and parental leave are available. I can understand why it makes that statement, but I wonder whether there is a simpler compromise. Where a child has an education and health care plan which takes them through to 25, usually because they have a long-term disability or medical condition, we know from the system that such people are more likely than others to become bereaved parents. Perhaps we might discuss whether we could extend it for those children who already have substantial care needs and support, many of whom, as we know, will not survive much beyond their 25th year.

There is also a request that the definition of a parent be looked at. I have some sympathy with this. I was a foster carer and then became a guardian to two children whose mother died. In various forms, as a guardian I had no legal status whatever. I had status with the family courts and with the school, but there were other situations where I did not. Definitions of parents are used in other legislation that could be used here. If you are a parent or a person with those caring responsibilities, as usually defined in the family court, it seems to me that you are the person who will be dealing with the death and its aftermath. Perhaps we could look at that further.

Finally, I applaud the work that has been done with employers, but we look for a national campaign to ensure that small employers, who obviously have concerns about extra leave, understand both the rarity of these cases and the concerns of bereaved parents as they face coming back to work. The ACAS guide is a good start, and I am delighted that many bereaved parents have been working with ACAS and larger employers to get the message across.

The most important thing is that this Bill succeeds through this House and becomes legislation. I look forward to the result of the consultation and hope that the Minister feels that it will be possible to have a meeting to discuss some of these matters during the passage of the Bill.