Intellectual Property (Unjustified Threats) Bill [HL]

Debate between Baroness Bowles of Berkhamsted and Viscount Hanworth

Wednesday 9th November 2016 Other Business

[Viscount Hanworth]

Amendment 15 is a trivial amendment. It says,

“leave out ‘person who made the threat (T)’ and insert ‘person (T) who made the threat’”.

I have observed that, in the subsequent text, T denotes a person rather than a threat. It occurs to me that it would have been better to denote the person in question by a capital P instead of a capital T. Even a capital C might be used to denote the complainant who makes the threat. This is a rather clumsy piece of illogic in the text, and I think it brings it somewhat into disrepute. These remarks apply also to Amendments 32, 50, 68 and 84, which are absolutely identical in their content. It is not the threat T that is instanced in the subsequent text; it is the person T that is instanced, and therefore there is a piece of illogic in the Bill. I think that should be expunged. I beg to move.

[Baroness Bowles of Berkhamsted]

I agree with the noble Viscount. I think it would have been less ambiguous if you had used P for person, but that might be used in another part. However, I observed that in the Digital Economy Bill, where there was the same kind of phrasing, they put the person, followed by a letter, who did something or other, so I think that the noble Viscount, Lord Hanworth, is right.

[Viscount Hanworth]

I have to say that mathematicians instantly spot this, so there are three of us who hold that opinion rather strongly. Others, who are of a different culture, cannot see what we are driving it.

The other amendment in the group is Amendment 16, which is replicated in Amendments 33, 51 and 85. We have already been over this ground, but I repeat that the amendment seeks to leave out “all”. This amendment relates to the requirement that the person T, who has made the threat, should take all reasonable steps to identify those who are ultimately responsible for the infringement, before they can claim that their threat is justifiable. It is argued that this places an onerous burden on a rights holder, who is subject to an infringement of e-commerce. Therefore, the word “all” should be deleted. We have been here before because it has been suggested that, instead of the phrase “all reasonable steps”, we should allow only steps that are practicable. I think the basic point is that the onus falls too heavily upon the claimant, in the case of e-commerce, of infringement.

[Lord Saville of Newdigate (CB)]

I entirely agree that the word “all” sets too high a test and should be removed.