Apprenticeship Levy Scheme

Debate between Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury and Baroness Barran

Thursday 16th June 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I do not accept the noble Lord’s assertion that the changes that the Government have introduced are not working. Clearly, the context of the last 12 months, with the pandemic, has had a major impact on the confidence and ability of employers to recruit more generally. But, in the year to date, apprenticeship starts are up 17.4% and the number of starts among young people under 25 has risen to 55%, up from 50% the previous year.

[Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury (LD)]

The creative industries have also found the apprenticeship levy scheme to be not fit and have asked for modifications; I thank the Minister for listening to these concerns. Around £55 million of apprenticeship levy funds raised within the creative industries cannot presently be spent to support the training of their own workforce, so we welcome the flexi-job apprenticeship agency pilot project, launched yesterday, which is looking to address these issues. Will she look into how this can be sustainable and affordable for the sector after the initial investment runs out—in other words, beyond the pilot?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness very much for acknowledging that we absolutely have listened to the sector with the flexi-job apprenticeships. She will be aware that there is enormous flexibility for larger employers to spend up to 25% of their levy funds, potentially, with their supply chain, as might well apply in a case like this.

Channel 4: Funding and Governance

Debate between Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury and Baroness Barran

Thursday 1st July 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans they have for the future (1) funding, and (2) governance, of Channel 4.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Baroness Barran) (Con)]

My Lords, I am tempted to invite the noble Lord, Lord Watson, to respond. As part of their ongoing strategic review of the UK system of public service broadcasting, the Government will be consulting on the future of Channel 4, including its ownership model and remit. A fast-evolving media landscape, increasing competition and changing audience habits pose imminent challenges. Moving Channel 4 into private ownership and changing its remit could help secure its future as a successful and sustainable public service broadcaster.

[Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury (LD)]

Does the Minister accept that for the sale of Channel 4 to bring in the amount of money that the Government are talking about, the remit will have to change? At the very least it would have to be watered down, with disastrous consequences for our public service broadcasting sector and the wider creative economy. No change to the remit means no real profit for the Government, so why do it? Could this be ideologically driven rather than economically—something to do with a melting ice sculpture?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I do not think it is anything to do with a melting ice sculpture. The Government are committed to having a thriving PSB sector. I know the noble Baroness understands full well what the trends are in advertising revenues for linear television. We are trying to address that and make sure that Channel 4 has a secure, sustainable and thriving future.

BBC: Freedom of Information Legislation

Debate between Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury and Baroness Barran

Thursday 24th June 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury (LD)]

My Lords, I think the Minister agrees that FoI exemptions are afforded to the BBC and other PSBs so that they can correctly maintain editorial control. Does she also agree that nothing should be done that might prejudice journalistic integrity, and that BBC journalists should have exactly the same protection of their sources as those working, for instance, for the Daily Mail?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I hear the noble Baroness’s point. What is perhaps behind the Question from the noble Baroness, Lady Hoey, is perceptions of impartiality concerning the BBC. The noble Baroness will be aware that both the new chairman and the new director-general have made addressing those perceptions a priority.

BBC: Dyson Report

Debate between Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury and Baroness Barran

Tuesday 25th May 2021 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Baroness Barran) (Con)]

It is obviously up to the board of the BBC to determine the scope of the review. I am sure the noble Baroness has seen the letter today from the chief executive of Ofcom about its work in this area. It is all part of an effort to rebuild trust in the BBC after the dreadful events revealed by the Dyson report.

[Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury (LD) [V]]

My Lords, we welcome the fact that the Government agree that, in an era of fake news, public service broadcasting has never been more important. The Bashir story is truly shocking, but I worked as a journalist at the BBC for many years and know that the vast majority abide by the values and principles that make it such a respected institution at home and abroad. This is not a time, as the Secretary of State said, for knee-jerk reactions. While I wholeheartedly condemn these events, does the Minister not agree that they must not be used as an opportunity to undermine the BBC’s independence or the principles of universality that so importantly underpin it?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

We absolutely agree—we want a strong and successful public broadcasting system, and that needs the BBC to be a central part of it. As my right honourable friend the Secretary of State made clear in his recent article in the Times, there will be no knee-jerk reaction.

Music Festivals: Covid-19-related Cancellations

Debate between Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury and Baroness Barran

Tuesday 27th April 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

My noble friend is right that the issue of indemnity cover cuts across a range of sectors. The Government have supported the sports sector both by allowing events to take place behind closed doors and through the £600 million sport survival fund.

[Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury (LD) [V]]

My Lords, in response to my Question yesterday, as the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson mentioned, the Minister said that the Government were

“aware of the wider concerns around indemnity for live events and are trying to understand the market failure and how it impacts on different forms of live events.”—[Official Report, 26/4/21; col. 2074.]

Is it not simple? Does not this admission of market failure mean that intervention can be justified and should be acted upon?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I am sure the noble Baroness would agree that before taking that decision we need to understand the impact on infection rates of removing or amending social distancing, not using masks, the role of certification and the impact of allowing global travel, which all have a bearing on the viability of these events.

Creative Industries: Covid-19

Debate between Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury and Baroness Barran

Monday 26th April 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the impact of COVID-19 on the levelling up agenda in relation to the creative industries sector.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Baroness Barran) (Con)]

My Lords, our creative industries are a global success story, growing at four times the UK average before the pandemic struck. While the pandemic has had a heavy impact, particularly on audience-facing subsectors, the Government have provided them with unprecedented levels of support through the £1.57 billion cultural recovery fund and the £500 million TV and film production restart scheme. Both these schemes have supported businesses across the UK and will help to ensure that the sector can return to growth as soon as public health conditions permit.

[Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury (LD)]

I thank the Minister for her reply. The Budget included the levelling-up fund, which drew attention to the importance of the creative sector in this endeavour, so why are the Government so resistant to working with the industry to create a scheme for insurance cover for festivals and live events? Without this, and as long as the threat of the pandemic continues, events that are so important to local economies and local jobs will not happen this summer. Does the Minister agree that in preventing such an insurance scheme the Government are taking a backwards step in their bid to level up the country?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The Government absolutely do not accept that we are taking any backwards step, either in support of the creative industries or in relation to levelling up. We have offered substantial practical help through setting out a very clear road map and identifying an events research programme to get those events going. We are aware of the wider concerns about securing indemnity for live events and are continuing to explore what further support we can offer.

Music and Performing Arts Students: Visas and Work Permits

Debate between Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury and Baroness Barran

Thursday 11th March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

As I am sure the noble Lord is aware, the issue is more complex than simply visas; work permits also play an important part. As I mentioned, our original offer worked for our creative professionals and we will continue to try to streamline their ability to tour.

[Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury (LD) [V]]

My Lords, post-Brexit mobility regulations are a problem not just for students but for those who teach them, many of whom come from the EU. What is being done to make teaching in the UK cost effective for them, and less of an administrative and financial burden for British institutions? Without access to such culturally diverse teachers and training, our future talent pipeline will be seriously disadvantaged.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The noble Baroness asks a very specific question. As I mentioned, our rules around visiting this country for creative professionals, which would include teachers, are more generous than in the vast majority of EU member states. If there is further to add on that, I will write to the noble Baroness.

Covid-19: Performing Arts Freelance Workers

Debate between Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury and Baroness Barran

Wednesday 10th February 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

As I said to other noble Lords, we are considering all the elements in detail and all the barriers to taking up the support offered. A further announcement on this will be made by the Treasury in the Budget.

[Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury (LD) [V]]

Happy birthday to all as well, and for once I suspect that the noble Baronesses wish they were a bit older so that they could get the jab. Last week we saw British talent triumph in the nominations for the Golden Globes. We cannot risk losing this vibrant sector, which contributes so much to our economy and world standing, but that is what we are heading towards. As my honourable friend Jamie Stone has repeatedly highlighted in his campaign “Gaps in Support”, so many of those facing this plight are from the creative industries. Does the Minister recognise that there should be more targeted financial help for this group? Can she say what exactly the Government are doing about this?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I feel as though I should have birthday cake on the Dispatch Box. Of course our understanding and our approach needs to evolve as our understanding of the pandemic and its impact evolves. We have aimed to tackle this from all directions by supporting our institutions with a major funding package, having a very broad job support and self-employed support scheme, and giving targeted support to individuals—particularly from the Arts Council, which has distributed £47 million in England alone.

Music Sector: Working in Europe

Debate between Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury and Baroness Barran

Wednesday 3rd February 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

As the noble Baroness has heard me say at the Dispatch Box on several occasions, we are exploring individual options to try to ease the process for our musicians and creative artists, but there are no current plans such as the one that she suggests.

[Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury (LD) [V]]

My Lords, I welcome the dialogue between the Minister’s department and the industry. Not just musicians but professionals from other creative industries rely on touring and now face this extra bureaucracy when moving between the EU and the UK. Can the Minister say whether moving equipment—whether musical instruments, scenery, merchandise or artefacts—by truck or cargo will require carnets between Great Britain and Northern Ireland? The Northern Ireland protocol makes no mention of temporary import/export.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

Given the sensitivities around arrangements with Northern Ireland at the moment, if I may, I will double-check and confirm to the noble Baroness. My understanding is that artists and organisations based in Northern Ireland will not be required to obtain ATA carnets or musical instrument certificates when touring in the EU, because the protocol means that Northern Ireland is part of that regulatory environment.

Covid-19: Arts Sector

Debate between Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury and Baroness Barran

Tuesday 15th December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury (LD) [V]]

My Lords, the allocation last week of more from the culture recovery fund was received with relief by many venues, but performing arts production is not a tap that you can just turn on and off. The news yesterday that London is going into tier 3, as mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Flight, has caused great anxiety. Can the Minister confirm that cultural venues will be eligible to receive tier 3 local restrictions support grant compensation?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

My understanding is that that is the case, but I will write and confirm to the noble Baroness if that is incorrect.

Public Service Broadcasting Online

Debate between Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury and Baroness Barran

Wednesday 9th December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to the report by Ofcom Review of prominence for public service broadcasting: Recommendations to Government for a new framework to keep PSB TV prominent in an online world, published on 4 July 2019, what plans they have to introduce legislation to ensure the prominence of public service broadcasting online.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Baroness Barran) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government have engaged with industry to understand fully the impact of Ofcom’s proposals. The Government remain committed to acting on Ofcom’s prominence recommendations, including through legislation. It is important to ensure that prominence and the balance of benefits and obligations support a sustainable future for PSBs. These issues will be considered as part of the Government’s strategic review of PSBs, where we will set out the next steps next year.

[Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury (LD) [V]]

I thank the Minister as usual for her response. As stated in the Ofcom report published yesterday on the future of PSBs, viewers of all ages and backgrounds value PSBs. The pandemic has highlighted their importance as trusted sources of information, and they will be equally important going forward into a vaccine phase. Does the Minister agree that for viewers to continue to be able to find them across the many connected, ever-changing devices that now exist, they must be kept prominent? Otherwise, what we watch will be dictated by the interests of global tech giants, not the interests of our society. Can the Minister reassure the House that this Government are committed to public service broadcasting, that they recognise that introducing this long overdue—

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[Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury (LD) [V]]

Introducing this long-overdue legislation is urgent, and can the Government say when they will do so?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I will reiterate briefly what I have already said. Of course, the Government have always supported public service broadcasting and continue to do so. We are conducting a wide-ranging review but remain committed to legislation in relation to prominence.

Covid-19: Support for Entertainment and Music Industry Freelancers

Debate between Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury and Baroness Barran

Monday 9th November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I am happy to have as many goes as it takes. I understand the noble Baroness’s persistence on this point. To reiterate: we have the Self-employment Income Support Scheme; I acknowledge that not everyone is eligible for it. We have a major funding package for the sector, which we hope will restart work as quickly as possible. It not quite fair for the noble Baroness to speak of “no support at all”; we have adapted the welfare system so that the self-employed can access universal credit in full to get support as quickly as possible.

[Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury (LD)]

As the Minister has heard so often, many people who work in the creative industries are self-employed. While the government support is welcome, many cannot access it, and potentially, greater problems are coming down the line. Does the Minister not accept that unless we get a good EU-UK deal, the creative industries face another crisis imminently? With the talks restarting today, will she confirm that a priority for the Government is an easy-to-obtain creative visa for freelancers to enable the movement of talent and skills in the sector? We have very little time. Can the Minister give us an update?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The Government absolutely recognise the importance of touring for musicians and other creative talent from this country. We continue to seek a reciprocal agreement with the EU, which would allow UK citizens to undertake some business activities in the EU without a work permit on a short-term basis. Unfortunately, however, I cannot comment on the detail of these arrangements.

Covid-19: Cultural and Creative Industries

Debate between Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury and Baroness Barran

Monday 26th October 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The noble Lord is right that culture and the arts play an important part in our mental health and sense of well-being. That is why we have worked so hard with the sector, providing guidance on reopening; we are now permitting indoor performances with socially distanced audiences. We continue to look at a variety of ways, including wider use of testing and better ventilation so that we can achieve exactly what the noble Lord hopes for.

[Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury (LD) [V]]

I join the noble Lord, Lord Colgrain, in thanking the noble Baroness’s department, Arts Council England and others for the grants and funding given during this crisis. However, a major stumbling block for those wanting to put on live events or planning them for the future is the availability of affordable contingency insurance. I know the noble Baroness has been asked this before, but please could she and her department work with theatres, venues and insurers to get a solution in place? A precedent exists in the form of cover that was needed for terrorism acts insurance in the 1990s and early 2000s, when the Government stepped in and intervened.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

Again, I thank the noble Baroness for her kind words regarding the Cultural Recovery Fund. With regard to government-backed insurance, particularly for theatres, the same applies across the arts. There is a very high bar for intervention in the insurance market, and the Government would need to be absolutely clear that access to insurance is the remaining obstacle to reopening if they were to intervene. However, we continue to work with UK Theatre and colleagues in the Treasury and others so that we leave no stone unturned.

Covid-19: Creative Industries

Debate between Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury and Baroness Barran

Tuesday 22nd September 2020 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Baroness Barran) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government are committed to supporting diversity in the creative industries throughout the Covid-19 pandemic and beyond. The £1.57 billion culture recovery fund announced in July provides support for cultural and creative organisations, with funding decisions informed by work that delivers social benefits and encourages diversity in both the workforce and audiences.

[Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury (LD) [V]]

I thank the Minister for her Answer. As she knows, many freelancers in the creative industries are still having a problem accessing support. There is talent everywhere in this area, but that cannot be said for opportunity. Those from diverse ethnic and economic backgrounds, and the disabled, are being particularly hard hit. The Minister mentioned the Government’s commitment to impacting on diversity and equal opportunity through the recovery package. However, considering the Government’s commitment to levelling up, can she inform the House of the department’s specific assessment in this area?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I share the noble Baroness’s view that there is talent everywhere and that our creative industries have been an extraordinary success. On the cultural recovery fund, there is within it a priority of focusing on projects that help deliver on levelling up and on organisations that have a track record of social benefit.

Covid-19: Performing Arts

Debate between Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury and Baroness Barran

Monday 13th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran]

I am happy to take the noble Baroness’s suggestion back to the department.

[Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury (LD) [V]]

My Lords, I declare my interests as laid out in the register. Does the Minister accept that, despite the generous and much-appreciated cash injection for the sector announced last week, unless we get the EU-UK deal right post Brexit—and now, post the possibility of an extension—and in particular the right deal on movement of talent and skills, the creative industry faces another crisis and imminently? Are the Government working on a creative freelance visa to maintain access to EU talent and reduce red tape and costs for performers and creatives?

[Baroness Barran]

The noble Baroness is right that travel and working within the EU have been important for freelancers in many artistic disciplines. I remind her that we have been clear that we are not asking for anything special in relation to freelancers, but to replicate some of the deals that have been struck with other countries.

Arts, Culture and Heritage: Support Package

Debate between Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury and Baroness Barran

Wednesday 8th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Baroness Barran) (Con)]

I am grateful to the noble Lord for welcoming the package of £1.57 billion of new money for the arts and culture that has been announced. I can reassure him that the plan for the package is not just to prioritise the largest institutions, although they are very important and £100 million is set aside for them, but to nurture the ecosystem of arts and culture organisations, which will also have important implications for freelancers in the sector and for the whole supply chain. As regards getting the funds out quickly, I can reassure the noble Lord that colleagues are working tirelessly to do that as fast as possible.

[Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury (LD) [V]]

I welcome this excellent news and thank the Secretary of State and his team, including the noble Baroness, at the DCMS. It is a generous package, and it shows a listening department. Can the Minister confirm that funding decisions will reflect existing priorities within the arts—she just mentioned in her Answer that it was understood that funding for creatives in the regions was important—but also the encouragement of inclusivity and diversity in both the workforce and audiences?

[Baroness Barran]

To clarify in response to the noble Baroness’s question on priorities, there are three priorities that we need to balance in deciding where this funding goes. We want to protect our nationally and internationally significant institutions but we also know that there are important institutions which are critical for our levelling- up agenda in places and communities all round the country, and we also want to prioritise those that are key drivers of economic growth. Therefore, there will be some balancing and some choices to make. On inclusivity, the noble Baroness is right that we will aim to support a diverse range of organisations; funding decisions will look at organisations’ track record of inclusivity as regards audiences and those delivering the arts.

Television Licences

Debate between Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury and Baroness Barran

Monday 6th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury (LD) [V]]

I am sure that the Minister agrees that the BBC has proved its gold-dust weight during this crisis of the Covid pandemic and lockdown, providing a reliable source of national and local news for all, an essential aid to those home-schooling, and solace and entertainment for the lonely and elderly. In which case, why do the Government not take back responsibility for the licence fee concession for the over-75s, introduced by a Labour Government in which the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, served, as something to be paid for by the Government, not by the licence fee payer, and which the BBC was, frankly, forced to take on? Does she not agree that not doing so means that the BBC will inevitably have to cut back on the essential services I have referred to?

[Baroness Barran]

The noble Baroness is right to say that over the past few months, the BBC has certainly provided high-quality information, education and entertainment, and has shown great agility in its response. However, I do not accept the second part of her question. The framework for negotiating the next stage in terms of the licence fee with the BBC will be settled by the end of next year, and I am sure that a number of these issues will be taken into consideration.

Covid-19: Orchestras and Cultural Venues

Debate between Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury and Baroness Barran

Wednesday 1st July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran]

The Government understand the hybrid nature of the way the arts sector is funded in this country and are keen to encourage funding from many different directions. The noble Lord asked about the scale of ambition. He will be aware that the Secretary of State has set up the Cultural Renewal Taskforce, which includes a range of leading thinkers and experts in this field. Its report will be very important to influencing the scale of our ambition.

[Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury (LD) [V]]

I declare my interests as a trustee of The Lowry and One Dance UK. The situation in which cultural venues find themselves is dire, especially without specific dates in the recovery plan. However, does the Minister accept that this goes further? Many organisations do not have a permanent home and rely on touring, such as dance troupes, theatre companies, festivals and so on. They should not be overlooked and need to be supported as well. Will the Minister commit to ensuring that the Government do not conflate the two? Also, if we do not get the EU-UK deal right, does she not accept that these organisations will face another catastrophe in a few months’ time?

[Baroness Barran]

The noble Baroness has raised an important point about clarity of timing. The Secretary of State recently revealed a five-stage road map that will allow the performing arts sector to get back up and running, and more detailed guidance will be published shortly. She has also raised a question about organisations that do not have a permanent home and are touring. First, we will obviously endeavour to ensure that they do not, in her words, fall through the cracks. We are also working with organisations to be innovative, including being able to perform out of doors.

Covid-19: Television Licences

Debate between Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury and Baroness Barran

Tuesday 2nd June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran]

I can only repeat that it is the responsibility of the BBC to decide whether or not to extend the concession. This point was debated extensively in both Houses under the Digital Economy Act, and that responsibility remains with the BBC. As I said earlier, we hope that it will remain flexible on this point.

[Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury (LD)]

I am sure the Minister agrees that the BBC has once again proved invaluable at a time of crisis. Does she not accept that when jobs in the creative sector are in such severe jeopardy, allowing the continued loss of funds for the BBC will severely harm any recovery there? Does she accept that this policy actually penalises the licence fee payer twice over, both in paying the concession and in putting the existence of the programmes that they value—and indeed rely on—at risk?

[Baroness Barran]

The noble Baroness is absolutely right that the BBC has played a vital role in informing, entertaining and particularly, most recently, educating the nation during this pandemic. However, I do not accept that we are putting the creative industries at risk. As she knows, this Government have really prioritised the growth of the creative industries. We work extremely closely with them and unquestionably see their value to this country.

BBC Charter Review

Debate between Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury and Baroness Barran

Wednesday 22nd January 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran]

Obviously, I cannot comment on the briefing, but I am happy to confirm the noble Lord’s last remarks.

[Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury (LD)]

My Lords—

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[Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury]

Can the Minister confirm that the BBC’s scope and mission will not be changed, and nor will the BBC have financial or other obligations placed upon it, by the Government before the next charter review, and that the mid-term review will not be used to impose new requirements?

[Baroness Barran]

It is clearly and widely agreed that there is a longer-term challenge in working out the business model for the BBC. We have time to do that ahead of the 2027 charter review. Clearly, the Government have a part to play in that, as it spills over into areas, as the noble Baroness understands very well, of competition and other law. So that is the long-term goal, and any funding model needs to follow the business model.