Electricity Transmission (Compensation) Bill

Debate between Baroness Blake of Leeds and Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist

3rd reading
Friday 19th May 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

My Lords, I will speak briefly to thank the noble Lord, Lord McLoughlin, for his explanation of the Bill. We completely agree with the need to improve the UK’s electricity infrastructure; we need to be able to expand the grid to enable new energy sources to come online. However, we emphasise the need for the correct balance to be found between the rights of landowners and infrastructure development.

As I laid out at Second Reading, we remain to be convinced that the Bill is necessary. Our concern here, if we have one, is that the Bill may hinder the Government’s plans to expand electricity network infrastructure. We do not want to see unintended consequences that could generate uncertainty among the business community.

However, with those comments, I commend the noble Lord, Lord McLoughlin, and Dr Liam Fox, the Bill’s sponsor in the other place, for raising this very important issue so that we can consider and debate it.

[Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist (Con)]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend Lord McLoughlin for taking the Electricity Transmission (Compensation) Bill through this House. I also thank noble Lords from across the House, including the noble Baronesses, Lady Blake and Lady Walmsley, for their valuable contributions on this Bill through its passage.

The Government are pleased to support this important Bill. The measures in it will help ensure that landowners have access to alternative dispute resolution in cases where their land, or rights to access their land, have been acquired for the build of network infrastructure. This will help landowners avoid having to take a case to the Upper Tribunal, which can be an expensive and lengthy process. While I acknowledge the concerns that the noble Baroness, Lady Blake, just raised in terms of unintended consequences, the intention of the Bill is to help speed up resolution where there is dispute. It will help to ensure that we strike the right balance between protecting the rights of landowners and the urgent need for network infrastructure build in this country.

To implement the measures in this Bill, the Government have committed to establishing an alternative dispute resolution task force in 2023. The task force will be responsible for developing proposals and making recommendations to government. The Government will continue to engage with a broad set of stakeholders, including network operators, representatives of landowners and experts in acquisition of land and alternative dispute resolution to ensure that the task force has the appropriate membership.

To conclude, bringing forward this new Bill will ensure that landowners have access to a clear, fair, affordable and enforceable system for dispute resolution. The Government are pleased to support these new measures and we have been glad to see the level of support for them across both Houses through the passage of this Bill. I again thank my noble friend Lord McLoughlin for his sponsorship of the Bill as it has moved through this House. I also thank my right honourable friend Dr Liam Fox for his sponsorship of the Bill in the other place and his hard work on the matter.

Prepayment Meters: Code of Practice

Debate between Baroness Blake of Leeds and Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist

Thursday 20th April 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist (Con)]

My noble friend refers to a number of policies that the Government have put in place to give financial support to consumers, and social tariffs are indeed still an option. Following the Government’s Autumn Statement commitment, we are working with consumer groups and industry to consider the best approach from April 2024 when the energy price guarantee comes to an end, and this could include social tariffs. As for the energy bill support scheme voucher take-up, we have a problem in that, as of 1 March, 97% of vouchers have been delivered since the scheme launched, but only 78% of these have been redeemed. This means that at this time 2.1 million vouchers have been issued to suppliers but not redeemed by households, so we are carrying out extensive communications, including through the Help for Households, to encourage people to redeem these vouchers. We are making announcements through local radio, charities, consumer groups and the media generally to encourage people to take up this support.

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

My Lords, we have all heard the harrowing stories that come from forced entry into the homes of the most vulnerable people in this country. I would like some more clarification. Surely discretion from the energy companies is not the answer, as we have heard. Why do the Government not take responsibility and continue the ban on installations until a better system is in place protecting the vulnerable. Is not failure to act on this a dereliction of duty?

[Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist (Con)]

The Government were very quick to take action following the Citizens Advice report in mid-January. The Secretary of State responded in late January by writing to Ofgem and all suppliers, and forced installation of PPMs was then stopped within weeks—even before the take-up by the national press campaign—so I do not agree that we have not done enough, quickly enough. The energy, markets and consumer team in the Department for Energy Security and Net Zero is responsible for this. We will monitor Ofgem very closely to make sure that all the provisions that we have put in place to protect vulnerable customers are indeed practicable and enforced.

Energy Bill [HL]

Debate between Baroness Blake of Leeds and Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist

Report stage
Tuesday 28th March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

I thank the noble Lord for bringing this information to our attention. Some interesting reports documenting the risks are available, and I refer particularly to the report from the Institution of Fire Engineers on solar power fire risk and to batteryfiresafety.co.uk.

I have a couple of points to add to the comments already made as to whether it would be worth directing information about the storage of the batteries. It should be highlighted in particular that batteries are often stored in garages next to parked cars, which can have similar battery systems, and will not always be easily accessible.

The risks of lithium ion batteries from a fire safety perspective apparently have been well documented. However, the other element is that the risk with lithium ion batteries is not just fire. Once the battery fails—I think the term is “runs away”—the cells usually start to give off smoke. Thermal runaway is the chemical process within the battery which produces heat, as well as flammable toxic chemical gases, very quickly, often before any flames arise.

I think it is fair to say that, although the information is out there, it has not been properly documented. I wonder whether the health and safety considerations of the increasing use of these batteries and solar panels have been taken on board. Does the Minister think that there is a problem and, if the answer is yes, what does she propose to do about it?

[Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his amendment on requesting a report into the fire risks of photovoltaic panels, lithium ion battery storage facilities and similar technologies. I was delighted to hear of his welcome in the Budget for the VAT exemptions.

First, I reassure the noble Lord that the health and safety regimes surrounding net-zero technologies are a priority for the Government. All electrical equipment requires safe installation and use. The Government recognise the importance of net-zero technologies such as electricity storage and solar PV in their ability to help us to use energy more flexibly and decarbonise our electricity system cost-effectively.

The data collected so far indicates that the risk from solar PV fires is low. However, it is right that we work with the industry to understand why any incidents happen and help to stop future occurrences. Over a three-year period and an overall cost of £135,000, the Government commissioned the Building Research Establishment to develop new guidelines for PV system installers, designers and the fire services, with the aim of making solar PV even safer. In February this year, the RISC Authority, the Microgeneration Certification Scheme and Solar Energy UK published an updated joint code of practice on recommendations for fire risk prevention in UK solar systems. Grid-scale lithium ion battery energy storage systems are covered by a robust regulatory framework, which requires manufacturers to ensure that products are safe before they are placed on the market and installed correctly, and that any safety issues found after products are on the market or after installations are dealt with.

In 2018, the Government set up an industry-led electricity storage health and safety governance group, which is responsible for ensuring that an appropriate, robust and future-proofed health and safety framework is sustained as the industry develops and electricity storage deployment increases. The Government are currently working with the group to support the development of a product and installation publicly available standard for domestic small-scale battery storage and guidance for grid-scale storage. They will both be published this year.

Most of the specific issues of e-scooters and bicycles fall within the remit of the Office for Zero Emission Vehicles, and I shall ask it to write to the noble Lord. I can also confirm that Defra will soon publish a consultation on battery recycling.

I do not believe that a specific report on fire risk of photovoltaic panels, lithium ion battery storage facilities and similar technologies mandated by the Secretary of State is necessary. While I welcome the noble Lord’s intention, we believe that working alongside industry and the fire services to manage specific risks is the appropriate way forward. It ensures that these vital technologies are installed, operated and decommissioned in a safe way, while still delivering the best outcomes for consumers. I hope that the noble Lord can recognise the Government’s sustained commitment to enabling the deployment of net-zero technologies in a safe and sustainable way.

In addition, on the concerns expressed by the noble Baroness, Lady Blake, about lithium ion batteries and their ability to combust, I visited last week a very clever packaging firm called Tri-Wall in Monmouth, which has developed packaging specifically for lithium ion batteries to be transported by air safely. The packaging itself will detect any change in heat in the batteries that it contains and change the structure of the packaging into water that will put the fire out before it even gets out of the packaging. Very clever technologies are being developed specifically around lithium ion battery transport and storage.

I hope that, with those few reassuring remarks, we can ask the noble Lord to withdraw his amendment.

Energy Bill [HL]

Debate between Baroness Blake of Leeds and Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist

Committee stage
Monday 16th January 2023 Grand Committee

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

I have a few questions and, if it is not possible to answer them all, I shall accept a written response. It would appear that the Government are bringing forward legislation that breaks promises of previous Governments, going way back, in relation to nuclear workers’ pensions. The statutory pensions protections that Parliament previously legislated for were vital to the success of privatisation. Is it right for the Government to promise those protections to ensure that success, and then to rip them up that many years after the event? We would like some clarification as to whether the Minister believes that that is the case—and, if not, why not?

Is it accurate to claim that these reforms would bring pension provision across the NDA group into line with wider public sector pensions? These pension schemes underwent much more radical reform long before my noble friend Lord Hutton’s review of public sector pensions. They have been closed to new entrants for many years. My noble friend recommended that public sector pension accrual should remain on a defined benefit basis, but pension provision across the NDA group is mostly on a defined contribution basis. I have it on good authority that there is an appetite from the trade unions to discuss these reforms with Ministers. Would the Minister be prepared to accept this course of action?

Several more questions are coming up, particularly on technical issues and questions about the proposed amendments. The amendments should allow for the implementation of the agreement between BEIS, the NDA and the recognised trade unions. There is a lot of detail about the proposed career average benefit structure in the heads of terms, but the proposed amendments are drafted in more general terms. Regulations are the proper place for the detail to be set out, but might the agreed accrual rate be an important enough term of the agreement to be in the Bill as well? The average member contribution rate of 8.2% is specified.

There are concerns about proposed new subsection 3(c) of the first proposed new clause that adds this chapter to Part 12, which provides for the increase of pensions in line with CPI, not RPI, for active and deferred pensioner members. However, it says that only increases for active and deferred members—that is, re-evaluation—cannot be capped. This opens the real possibility that the Government intend to bring forward regulations that provide for pension increases for at least some members, possibly members of the Magnox group, to be capped. This is contrary to the heads of terms, which explicitly states that pension increases will be in line with inflation as measured by CPI, with no reference to any cap. Would it be possible to propose an amendment so that we can look at ensuring that regulations cannot propose capped increases for any pensioners?

I will end by asking: how confident are the Government that they can identify people in and out of scope of future regulations, given that there is a fair degree of geographical mobility around the industry?

[Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist (Con)]

I thank both noble Lords for their contributions to this important debate. I suspect that I might end up having to write to the noble Baroness, Lady Blake, with the answers to some of her questions.

I turn first to the question raised by the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, on what consultation there had been with NDA employees. As I mentioned in my opening remarks, a public consultation was undertaken and published in December 2018. It ran for a number of months before that. All these changes were agreed then with the trade unions, recognising the vital work that the NDA and its workforce delivers. BEIS and the NDA worked with national trade unions in 2017 to develop an agreed pension benefit structure tailored to the characteristics of the affected NDA employees. This resulted in a proposed bespoke CARE benefit structure, which is in line with the key principles of reforms already implemented in respect of other public sector pension schemes. The bespoke CARE scheme design was formally accepted by the national trade unions following statutory consultation with affected NDA employees and a ballot of union members. There are two final salary public sector schemes within the NDA, with a total of approximately 8,000 scheme members, that are therefore within scope for reform.

As I said in my opening remarks, this is still a very good pension. It allows full pension awards at 60 for the majority of members, whereas most public sector pensions are linked to state retirement age. I am afraid there has been a delay in implementing these reforms, purely because the Energy Bill has provided the first opportunity to make the change since the agreement with the unions; previous legislative vehicles were considered but were not deemed appropriate for these clauses. I will respond to any further questions that were raised in writing. I beg to move.

Energy Bill [HL]

Debate between Baroness Blake of Leeds and Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist

Committee stage
Monday 12th December 2022 Grand Committee

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

I too welcome the return of the Bill. It is quite interesting to reflect back to the first and second days in Committee, when we were recording the hottest temperatures that we had ever experienced in this country and were making full use of that experience. We were also in the midst of the leadership contest and questioning the commitment of the candidates; we had no way of knowing, of course, that both of them would take their turn in No. 10 and have the ability to demonstrate their commitment.

We are really pleased to see the return of the Bill. We were concerned that there would be changes and, as we said on the first two days in Committee, there are some measures in this Bill that are urgent and that we need to get a move on with in order to address the challenges that we face in this space.

I do not have an enormous amount to add to the Minister’s very full comments. I just seek clarification. When I see an amendment on consultation, I am always slightly concerned to know who exactly would come into the sphere of consultation and make sure that it is as full as it could be. The issues around making sure that the fund remains sufficient are very practical and necessary. With that plea for clarification on consultation, I am happy to leave it there.

[Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, and the noble Baroness, Lady Blake, for their remarks. I will start with the noble Baroness’s final question. As set out in the Government’s response to that consultation, it is expected that the owners of the asset will submit their assessment of the decommissioning liability to the Offshore Petroleum Regulator for Environment and Decommissioning for verification. This verification will include consultation with the North Sea Transition Authority, which will be able to compare the assessment against its extensive benchmarking data. OPRED will also be able to engage third parties to provide its own assessment if necessary. Once OPRED is satisfied that the assessment is accurate, it will advise the Secretary of State on approving the amount. That is the advice route that the Secretary of State would take.

In response to the question from the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, transport and storage companies will hold the decommissioning funds, but will be overseen by the economic and operational regulators. Funds to cover decommissioning costs will be included in the allowed revenue paid to the transport and storage company. The proportion of revenue to be paid into the decommissioning fund will be determined by the economic regulator once the decommissioning liability has been calculated. I hope that that deals with that satisfactorily—clearly not.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

This has become a very rich debate. I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, for putting her amendments forward to enable us to have these broader discussions. We have said from the start that the difficulty with this Bill is the things that are not in it; this is one area we can all learn from and hopefully move forward on.

I also thank the noble Baroness, Lady Worthington, for the explanation of her Amendments 130A and 130B. I am sure that we would all welcome more clarity in these areas, and indeed a strategy so that we can bring confidence and certainty to the sector in the way that she described.

I will focus most on Amendment 124A in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, in my comments and, in particular, the notion of adding local carbon transport schemes to the section on low-carbon heat schemes—indeed, to run alongside them.

As many will know, this was last looked at under the last Labour Government, with the 2009 report Low Carbon Transport: A Greener Future, which, interestingly, was published by the DfT. It made recommendations on supporting a shift to new technologies and fuels, promoting lower-carbon choices, and using market mechanisms to encourage a shift to lower-carbon transport. Of course we have moved on in many ways, but these principles should not be overlooked and we should continue to put in our full effort.

Specifically on hydrogen vehicles, we believe there is merit in looking at potential in the HGV sector. The discussions about shipping were interesting as well, but we feel that so much more focus needs to be put on alternatives, certainly in the short-term. Electric is obviously being looked at.

It is important to debate this at this point because, with the global situation regarding gas supplies, we are focusing our attention on domestic energy in particular, for obvious reasons—the cost of living crisis, security issues and all that goes with it—but we have to bear in mind that transport is one of the biggest sources of carbon emissions in the UK. In 2019, it accounted for 34% of the UK’s total carbon emissions. Its emissions have remained largely unchanged since the 1990s, which we cannot say about the energy supply generally. We have to ask why transport is such a poor performer.

We need to be concerned about where we get the electricity from if we continue with our ambition. If we are to reach our target of net-zero emissions by 2050, the decision to ban new petrol and diesel cars from 2030 will help, but there are so many other areas that we should focus on: alternative modes of transport, cycling and walking, and shared travel options. From my point of view, we have this enormous disconnect between transport policy and the policy we are discussing. We need to pick it up and take it seriously.

I speak with my experience of being a member of Transport for the North. All the schemes we tried to bring in through the integrated rail plan to deliver not only for the travelling public but for the impact on the climate seem to have been left behind. We have discussed this before. We have had Questions in the Chamber about the lack of joined-up thinking from the Government, which needs seriously to be addressed. The noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, referred to it as a lack of leadership and vagueness in the plan, but why are we not cross-referencing within the Bill to the work that needs to be done?

Speaking with my local government hat on, on building new homes, why can we not look at the schemes in Scandinavia in particular, where every new home has solar panels and the excess electricity generated is taken off and fed into personal electric charging points for vehicles? There are so many examples that we should look at.

The amendment has generated an opportunity to discuss this. I look forward to the Minister’s response to the amendments from the noble Baroness, Lady Worthington, but in particular to her explanation as to why there is such a lack of joined-up thinking in these areas, where the potential could be enormous.

[Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist (Con)]

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who participated in the debate, particularly those who tabled amendments.

I will speak first to Amendment 124A, tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, but I must start by taking issue with the idea that the Government are not showing leadership. I believe that they are showing leadership with low-carbon transport solutions. For example, this year alone we have announced £200 million for the zero-emission road freight demonstrator programme, which includes hydrogen and electrification for HGVs; another £200 million for zero-emission buses, again including both hydrogen and pure electric; £30 million for a fleet of 124 buses in the West Midlands; £206 million for the UK Shipping Office for Reducing Emissions—or UK SHORE—to decarbonise maritime, which includes a mix of different technologies; and up to £12 million until August 2023 and up to £60 million until March 2025 for the second and third rounds of the clean maritime demonstration competition, funding feasibility studies and pre-deployment trials in zero-emission shipping hydrogen technologies for maritime applications. As the noble Baroness will be aware, there is also £20 million for phase 2 of the Tees Valley hydrogen transport hub, with an additional £300,000 put forward to support local skills.

On aviation, the SR21 funding for hydrogen-related aviation activity has not yet been announced but is forthcoming. We have also announced £165 million for the advanced fuels fund to kick-start a sustainable aviation fuel industry in the UK.

All this goes to demonstrate that we are doing a lot of work to show leadership in this area, putting money into research to help us solve some of the problems raised in this debate. Work is already under way in the Department for Transport in close collaboration with BEIS; it is really helpful that the former Secretary of State for Transport is now the Secretary of State for BEIS, so he will be very well versed in some of these issues. I can reassure noble Lords of the continual conversation that happens between the two departments in this regard. In close collaboration with BEIS, as set out in the Government’s transport decarbonisation plan, the Department for Transport is delivering on its comprehensive plan for decarbonising transport, which includes supporting a greater role for hydrogen through schemes such as those I have mentioned.

As we have seen, there is a significant role for hydrogen in heavier transport applications or where things such as refuelling times and infrastructure constraints make it the best choice. However, we do not consider that a new statutory, regulatory regime would add anything new to the work already being done. It is always necessary to consider whether the benefit outweighs the regulatory burden. I hope that the noble Baroness is reassured by the Government’s commitment to this cause, and I ask her to withdraw her amendment.

Amendment 130A seeks to limit the definition of “UK removals” in Section 29 of the Climate Change Act, excluding mechanisms such as financial instruments that do not relate to the physical removal of greenhouse gases in the UK. I reassure the noble Baroness, Lady Worthington, that Clause 111 does not expand the definition of “UK removals” to non-physical processes, but instead to greenhouse gas removals achieved by engineered methods, such as bioenergy with carbon capture and storage. This is to align the definition with current international best practice, including guidelines set out by the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change.

I equally reassure the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, that it is the Government’s priority to reduce emissions of greenhouse gases from human activities and to adapt to those climate change impacts that are unavoidable. We are clear that the purpose of greenhouse gas removals is to balance the residual emissions from sectors that are unlikely to achieve full decarbonisation by 2050. It is not a substitute for decisive action across the economy to reduce emissions. Nature-based methods, such as afforestation and habitat restoration, will be essential in removing and storing carbon dioxide at scale while delivering a range of additional environmental benefits, such as biodiversity gain, air quality and soil health.

The Climate Change Act 2008 allows the Government to purchase off-sets or other traded instruments to set towards our emission reduction targets. The Government do not currently intend to purchase off-sets to set towards our carbon budgets, although they have retained the option to do so in future, if appropriate. I can see that I shall never manage to reassure the noble Baroness, Lady Jones.

Trade Marks (Amendment) Regulations 2022

Debate between Baroness Blake of Leeds and Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist

Tuesday 25th October 2022 Grand Committee

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

I shall be interested to hear the response of the Minister to the questions of the noble Lord, Lord Palmer. I thank the Minister for her fulsome explanation of where we are and why the instrument is necessary, of course noting that the regulations are subject to the affirmative procedure.

I notice that the Intellectual Property Office considered alternative options to addressing the commitment undertaken by the UK under the TCA, but there were no viable alternatives—which suggests that some alternatives were considered. I just wonder whether there will be an opportunity to review the impact of the SI and ensure that we keep up to date, ensuring for everyone involved that it is fit for purpose as time goes on.

[Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist (Con)]

Excuse me, I am seeking divine guidance. I wanted to give an example of a trademark that might be unregistered but would still get protection under the instrument. I keep coming back to Coca Cola and Rolex, which I recognise are both registered trademarks. The whole point of the SI is that we in the department discovered the EU was unaware that we had a bit of a hole in our legislative cover for trademarks, so the SI has a very specific purpose: to try to plug that hole to give protection to trademarks that were otherwise not protected by the original legislation.

The noble Lord mentioned things such as champagne, but I think that is a confusion with geographical indications, which are used on products specifically protected as a term because of where they come from—such as Melton Mowbray pork pies or champagne, which have to be produced in a particular region. That is why that would not fall within the scope of this SI.

I have very few other specific answers that I can give the Committee at this stage. If noble Lords bear with me, I will write with specific answers to the questions, particularly those from the noble Baroness, Lady Blake. I hope noble Lords will agree that this SI is necessary for a very specific and small purpose, and I commend the regulations to the House.

Energy Bill [HL]

Debate between Baroness Blake of Leeds and Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist

Committee stage
Wednesday 7th September 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

Just to add to that list of uses, I am interested in the development of the hydrogen village, as outlined in the Bill, which is a really interesting example. There are also other uses in transport, for example, which are very well advanced, and we very much look forward to the outcome of those debates.

I do not want to prolong the debate, but the obvious question to me is that a standard has been established and had extensive public consultation and multiple engagement sessions with experts by stakeholder groups, as I understand it. I just wonder why we would want to undermine all that work and complicate the situation by suggesting that the Secretary of State could override the standard. Perhaps the Minister could, in his summing up, give us a very clear explanation of how any changes to the standard and protection might be achieved, to ensure that stakeholders and the public are kept informed, as this is, as we have heard, an area of both enthusiastic response and concern.

[Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Liddell, and the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, for their amendments in this group.

Amendments 43, 45 and 48 seek to ensure that the question of who is an eligible low-carbon hydrogen producer is determined solely by regulations that set objective criteria against which to assess eligibility, and in doing so must reference the low-carbon hydrogen standard.

Amendment 58 seeks to clarify that a low-carbon hydrogen producer must be eligible to receive support, which the other amendments would ensure means that they are compliant with the low-carbon hydrogen standard. Amendment 46 has a similar purpose; I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, for it and for her encouraging comments about the policy.

Amendment 47 seeks to introduce an emissions standard for low-carbon hydrogen production and would require the Government to target support at areas that cannot benefit from other cleaner, more efficient or cost-effective decarbonisation processes. I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Worthington, for this amendment.

A low-carbon hydrogen producer is defined in Clause 61(8) as

“a person who carries on (or is to carry on) activities of producing hydrogen which in the opinion of the Secretary of State will contribute to a reduction in emissions of greenhouse gases”.

The intention of this definition is to ensure that support under hydrogen production revenue support contracts may be provided only in respect of low-carbon hydrogen production that contributes to our decarbonisation ambitions.

Clause 61(3) places a duty on the Secretary of State to make provision in regulations for determining the meaning of “eligible” in relation to a low-carbon hydrogen producer. This approach to defining eligibility in regulations is similar to that taken for low-carbon contracts for difference in the Energy Act 2013. The regulations that define the term “eligible generator” for low-carbon contracts for difference have themselves been updated since they were introduced in 2014 as the industry and technologies have evolved; this has proved a flexible and enduring approach since 2014.

This duty is required as the Secretary of State is only able to direct a hydrogen production counterparty to offer to contract with an eligible low-carbon hydrogen producer. An allocation body will also be able only to give a notification to a hydrogen production counterparty specifying an eligible low-carbon hydrogen producer to offer to contract with. It is not practical to define an eligible low-carbon hydrogen producer in the Bill because eligibility may change over time as the industry and technologies evolve. The Government plan to consult on these regulations by early 2023.

The Government consulted on a UK low-carbon hydrogen standard last year, and a government response was published in April this year. This world-leading standard sets out a greenhouse gas emissions threshold as well as other criteria for hydrogen production to be considered low carbon, and sets out in detail the methodology for calculating the emissions associated with hydrogen production. This includes the steps that producers are expected to take to prove that the hydrogen they produce is compliant.

The standard was developed following a public consultation and multiple engagement sessions with industry and academic experts, including the Hydrogen Advisory Council and its low-carbon hydrogen standard working group. As set out in the response to the consultation on a low-carbon hydrogen business model, published in April this year, we are proceeding with our proposal to require volumes of hydrogen produced to meet the UK low-carbon hydrogen standard in order to qualify for and receive funding under the business model. The low-carbon hydrogen standard is set out in guidance and we expect it to be updated over time to ensure that it remains fit for purpose and reflects our growing understanding of how new technologies work in practice, including how hydrogen production interacts with the broader energy system. I hope that gives some comfort to the noble Lord, Lord Oates, and the noble Baroness, Lady Blake, that the standard may well change over time as our understanding of the practice grows.

With a focus on investor confidence, our current approach gives a significant degree of certainty about eligibility, which will provide prospective investors and developers with the clarity and transparency that they need to bring projects forward. While the low-carbon hydrogen standard is an integral part of the low-carbon hydrogen regime, direct reference to an emissions standard in this legislation would undermine both the need for the standard to be capable of evolving over time and the need for the legislation to be certain. The approach currently set out in the clause makes best use of regulations for setting eligibility and guidance that can be more responsive to the evolving nature of the low- carbon hydrogen standard.

Amendment 58 seeks to insert “eligible” in Clause 70(1)(b). We do not consider this necessary, as the reference to

“that low carbon hydrogen producer”

in subsection (1)(b) is referring back to the

“eligible low carbon hydrogen producer”

in subsection (1)(a).

The noble Baroness, Lady Worthington, mentioned the production of methane and it being an unhealthy by-product of hydrogen, and that a green hydrogen lobby group which I was not aware had been consulted. I will certainly take that back to the department. We have numbers on the rate of hydrogen per kilogram of greenhouse gas emissions compared with the low-carbon hydrogen standard, but I will be delighted to write to her, rather than befuddle everybody with the science here.

I therefore ask that the noble Baronesses and noble Lords withdraw and not press Amendments 43, 45, 46, 47, 48 and 58, but thank them for helping to test the robustness of the Government’s decarbonisation ambitions.

Retrofitting Buildings: National Strategy

Debate between Baroness Blake of Leeds and Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist

Thursday 9th June 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

My Lords, buildings are responsible for about 30% of primary energy use in the UK and nearly half of all carbon emissions. As we have heard, the Government’s failures with the green homes grant and the absence of efficiency measures in the energy security strategy, including the crucial issue of retrofitting, suggest that they have little idea of how to tackle this significant issue. Can the Minister tell us what measures we will see in the upcoming energy security Bill to show that lessons have finally been learned?

[Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist (Con)]

I do not think that anyone could disagree that we learned a number of lessons from the failure of the green homes grant—but we need to understand that its primary objective was to upskill the workforce and support jobs after the pandemic, as well as to drive forward the net-zero agenda for this Government. We learned that a limited number of installers were registered, although we did install 47,000 upgrades. We also learned that the 12-week timescale was insufficient to produce a meaningful scheme, and we did not do enough consultation before introducing such a complex scheme. But those issues have been addressed, and the whole heat and buildings strategy needs to be seen in the round—it sets out the long-term objective, and the upcoming energy security Bill is just a part of that overall objective.

Professional Qualifications Bill [HL]

Debate between Baroness Blake of Leeds and Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist

Consideration of Commons amendments
Tuesday 5th April 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

My Lords, I sincerely hope that the noble Lord, Lord Grimstone, is progressing well. He seems to have fallen to the unfortunate propensity of the BEIS team to suffer from Covid. From experience, I hope that he gets through it quickly and I pass on my best wishes. I am very sorry that he is not here for the concluding comments around the Bill. I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Bloomfield, for her introductory comments, which were delivered with clarity on the matters that we are considering.

I think many of us who have been involved in this Bill throughout its passage will recognise that it has not been the finest moment for legislation coming through the House. It was the first Bill that I was involved with, so it was quite a steep learning curve for me—but it has been described as chaotic. Indeed, it is quite extraordinary that the Bill was introduced without knowing which professions were actually in scope in the first place. Many concerns have been expressed about the Bill in its stages across the House. We note the considerable number of amendments that have gone through and gone to the other place—as the result, probably, of poor drafting in the first place. Of course, we do not wish to open the debate again on all those and other issues, but it is right to emphasise that particular concern was expressed right at the start with regard to the lateness of consultation, especially with devolved authorities. As was predicted at the time, I believe that it is that which has led to the lengthy delays and, of course, to the devolved authorities formally rejecting the Minister’s reassurances in early January.

On Report, we took a decision not to divide the House based on the assurances made by the noble Lord, Lord Grimstone, that he would continue to work on the Bill to secure support from the devolved authorities. We note the further work that has been undertaken, as outlined by the noble Baroness, Lady Bloomfield, to seek legislative consent from the devolved authorities and to overcome the impasse that still exists. As has been expressed, this is indeed regrettable.

We note the amendments tabled today and the further assurance from the Minister of the Government’s intention to work collaboratively and transparently with all the devolved authorities. We understand that the amendments are designed to introduce the enhanced consultation duty and to formalise the Government’s standard good practice in consulting devolved authorities before making regulations, as discussed on many occasions in this House.

Along with many other Members of this House, I am a passionate believer in devolution. Real devolution requires trust, transparency, honouring commitments and, above all, respect. Sadly, there are too many instances, across many policy areas, where government is falling short. I hope we can have further assurance from the Minister that timely consultation will become the norm and that any concerns arising from discussions will be dealt with transparently and in good faith. We recognise that the amendments are a step forward. With these comments, and noting our continuing interest and concerns, we recognise that the amendments will lead to the Bill moving on to be accepted.

[Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist (Con)]

My Lords, I start by thanking your Lordships for the constructive approach that has been in evidence throughout the Bill’s passage. We have had robust discussion and debates, and the Bill is all the better for that. I take on the chin the comments of the noble Baroness opposite about how we may not have started in the best place with the Bill.

The UK Government have been grateful for the close engagement of colleagues in all the devolved Administrations at both ministerial and official level throughout this process. Even though we are disappointed that the devolved Administrations have not been able to support legislative consent, I know that my noble friend Lord Grimstone and Minister Scully have listened carefully to their concerns. To that end, we have heard and understood the particular concern of the Welsh Government around Schedule 7B to the Government of Wales Act 2006. In answer to the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, and indeed the noble Baroness, Lady Blake, I again confirm that we shall continue to work closely with all the DAs to make the Bill work for all areas of the UK.

This amendment and the consult-plus amendment underline the Government’s determination to work collaboratively and transparently with all devolved Administrations and devolved regulators under the provisions of the Bill and on wider regulated professions policy. Although it is regrettable that legislative consent Motions have not been passed for the Bill, the UK Government are fully committed to the Sewel convention and the associated practices for seeking consent, as set out in the devolution memorandum of understanding and devolution guidance notes. We will continue to seek legislative consent from the devolved legislatures when introducing Bills at Westminster which legislate within all areas of devolved competence.

In answer to the noble Lord, Lord Fox, who was asking about the BEIS Bills, these situations are clearly exceptional. BEIS has explored all avenues to secure the consent of devolved Administrations, including offering packages of concessions on these Bills and committing, importantly, to further meaningful engagement with the DAs to ensure their input in the future of these new regimes.

In answer to the noble Lord, Lord Wigley, I do not agree that there is any question that we do not recognise the role of the DAs. We have held three ministerial round tables with devolved regulators and have had regular engagement at official level. It is completely incorrect to say that the DAs have not been given enough time or information to engage with the Bill. However, I acknowledge and hope that we may all find a better way of working together and re-establishing that important trust that should exist between the four nations and their respective Governments and assemblies.

Subsidy Control Bill

Debate between Baroness Blake of Leeds and Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist

Committee stage
Wednesday 9th February 2022 Grand Committee

[Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist (Con)]

I remind the noble Baroness that we have a legal commitment to net zero.

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for her full response to the two amendments before us. In the contributions that have been made both in the debate and in our following up and further probing, there is a sense that we have to go into this more deeply.

Again, we are asking for the same principles that we have talked about with regard to many of these issues around clarity, sense of purpose and benefit. I do not believe that public authorities will find some of this assessment and monitoring onerous, including having to account for the subsidies that they put forward. That is part of established practice and it needs to be formalised in the sense put forward by my noble friend Lord McNicol in Amendment 62, with annual reports as a mechanism for picking it up.

I absolutely agree on the issue of five-yearly reports. We are already in 2022. Are we saying that the first report into progress in these areas around net zero will not be heard until 2027—possibly even 2028, with the way things are going? That cannot be what the Government intend, given the urgency of the situation in front of us in moving towards net zero.

I will not unpick all the excellent points made by noble Lords in this debate because I know that we will come back to this area. I look forward to hearing how we can bring this together and come up with a sensible way forward. As I said in my opening remarks, if we carry on with the Bill in its current form, we will be sitting on a missed opportunity to do something constructive and positive—particularly, in the context of this debate, around net zero but also, looking further afield, in the wider area of levelling up. The climate emergency is a major contributor to the unequal experience of people right across the four nations. Addressing the matters raised in this discussion would be a sensible way forward. With that, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Subsidy Control Bill

Debate between Baroness Blake of Leeds and Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist

Committee stage
Wednesday 2nd February 2022 Grand Committee

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

We are extremely grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, for tabling these amendments and outlining his thoughts on this incredibly complex and very difficult issue, as the noble Lord, Lord Lamont, stressed. This needs huge sensitivity in dealing with it. I do not think that we have anything to add at this stage, but we welcome the fact that a light has been shone on this issue. The feeling we had was that it is surprising that more amendments have not been tabled on this topic, but we expect that there will be more as the groups progress. For now, having heard from the noble Lords, Lord Purvis and Lord Lamont, we will be extremely interested to hear the Minister’s initial response to the matters being raised.

[Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist (Con)]

It might indeed be an initial response, because the noble Lord has the advantage of me: I was not aware of the announcement made this afternoon by Northern Ireland’s Agriculture Minister, while we have been in Committee. However, I thank the noble Lords, Lord Purvis of Tweed and Lord Fox, for tabling these amendments. I appreciate that they are intended to be helpful and generate some discussion about these issues, which I suspect will be ongoing.

I begin with Amendment 22, which would require public authorities to make an explicit statement as to whether a subsidy scheme falls under the new domestic regime or EU state aid rules before it is made. Clause 48 already makes it clear that the subsidy control requirements do not apply to a subsidy given, or a subsidy scheme made, in accordance with Article 10 of the Northern Ireland protocol, nor do the requirements apply to a subsidy or subsidy scheme to which Article 138 of the EU withdrawal agreement applies.

It follows that, in the very limited number of cases where public authorities determine that schemes are operating under EU state aid law, the required information will be uploaded to the relevant EU databases on the Commission’s website. All other schemes, which represent the vast majority, will fall under the new domestic regime and be uploaded to the UK transparency database. As such, we do not consider it necessary to include a requirement on public authorities to make a statement as to whether a scheme operates under the Bill or EU state aid rules.

I thank my noble friend Lord Lamont for his comments. I understand his concerns about the interaction between the state aid regime and the subsidy control regime. I assure him that the EU state aid rules under the Northern Ireland protocol currently apply only in certain circumstances to aid that affects trade in goods and electricity between Northern Ireland and the EU. Such subsidies are within the scope of the protocol only where there is a genuine and direct link to Northern Ireland and a real, foreseeable impact on trade between Northern Ireland and the EU. The Commission’s unilateral declaration of December 2020 made it clear that Article 10 could affect a subsidy in GB only if there was a genuine and direct link in Northern Ireland. This would be the case if, for example, the beneficiary had a subsidiary in Northern Ireland.

EU state aid rules also apply under Article 138 of the withdrawal agreement in relation to aid for EU programmes and activities within the multiannual financial framework as a transitional provision. To respond to the concern of the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, that state aid rules would continue to apply even if the UK’s negotiating position were accepted, these are specific and limited circumstances. I trust that this will allay the Committee’s concerns on this important issue.

Amendment 53 from the noble Lords, Lord Purvis of Tweed and Lord Fox, would require a mandatory referral to the CMA’s subsidy advice unit, or SAU, for any subsidy which the public authority believes has a connection to economic activity in Northern Ireland, but where that authority has decided that the proposed subsidy is not within the scope of Article 10 of the Northern Ireland protocol. The SAU would then, as part of its report, determine whether EU rules would apply.

I am afraid that I must reject this amendment as we believe that it is unnecessary. The Government have already provided guidance for public authorities to determine in advance whether the subsidy they are planning to give will be in scope of the Northern Ireland protocol. A requirement for the subsidy advice unit to make a report in advance would needlessly delay the deployment of a large number of subsidies that are clearly not in scope of the Northern Ireland protocol. It would also significantly increase the workload of the SAU and the cost to taxpayers.

The Government have published guidance for public authorities on the Northern Ireland protocol, making it clear where it does or does not apply. This guidance was last updated in June 2021, and we will continue to update it as needed. This guidance supports public authorities to make an informed decision on whether their proposed subsidy is in scope of the Northern Ireland protocol, and there exists in the department an advisory team that any public authority can contact for additional support. We need not bring delay into the system unnecessarily.

I emphasise that this amendment is at odds with the Bill’s position that a measure that would currently fall within the scope of Article 10 of the Northern Ireland protocol should not be subject to the rules and processes contained in this Bill. That is the whole purpose of Clause 48. This means that it cannot be referred to the SAU for any reason, and the SAU will not undertake any evaluation in relation to the protocol or the EU state aid rules. It is the responsibility of central government to ensure that the UK is compliant with those rules. As such, any subsidy in scope of the mandatory referral provisions in Clause 52 is, by definition, not in scope of the Northern Ireland protocol provisions for the application of EU state aid.

The SAU has important advisory and scrutiny functions: to evaluate public authorities’ own assessments of compliance with the subsidy control requirements; and to monitor and evaluate the operation of the domestic regime as a whole. However, it is not a regulator with responsibilities for making definitive judgments, including on whether a specific subsidy is in scope of the Northern Ireland protocol.

I therefore ask the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, to withdraw his amendment and other noble Lords not to press theirs.

Professional Qualifications Bill [HL]

Debate between Baroness Blake of Leeds and Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist

Report stage
Tuesday 9th November 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, an issue raised in Committee that it would be helpful for the Minister to provide an update on—in writing would be satisfactory to me—concerns those European Union workers who had been providing services, with their qualifications recognised, and had applied for settled status but on the fast-track element, which did not ask them to provide any more information about the qualifications recognition. With Clauses 5 and 6 revoking the previous EU scheme and the move towards the domestic schemes, there is still potentially a grey area for those workers who will have to provide proof of their qualifications recognition if they change employer, or indeed if they seek new rental or property agreements, et cetera.

Previously, the noble Lord, Lord Grimstone, indicated that the Government were aware of this, and he provided assurances. It would be very helpful if the Government could say how many of these workers could be in this position. It emphasises the point made by the noble Baroness, which I agree with, that, even if there are unintended consequences of putting at risk some of these workers, we can ill afford it.

The second element is that it would be helpful to know the Government’s intentions for the timing of the revocation of the EU scheme. Previously, the Minister indicated that it would be when the Government were ready to do so but that they were not in any rush to do it. It will be helpful to know what timeframe we are looking at, because the noble Lord, Lord Frost, in a Statement he provided to the House in September, said that the Government were now carrying out a substantial review of previous European legislation and retained EU law. Are professional qualifications separate from that review or will they be considered as part of it? If the Minister could give some reassurance on that, I would be grateful.

Finally, because this will probably be my last comment on the Bill in this House—which I am sure the noble Baroness, Lady Bloomfield, will be pleased to hear—I want to put on record how she and the noble Lord, Lord Grimstone, have engaged in this process. I have been in this House a number of years, and we hear at the Dispatch Box fairly frequently that the Government value the input and scrutiny from this House and take on board whenever we amend legislation, and we always welcome that. But our amendments quite frequently get buried in the dust in the other House, when all our great counsel and wisdom is turned back.

The benefit of the noble Baroness and the noble Lord listening and then acting by tabling the government amendments is that this is now government policy, and the Bill is now substantially changed. If I understand it correctly, this will be the first time that the autonomy of regulators will be respected in primary legislation. That is a considerable achievement for the parliamentary process of a Bill of which we had been not only sceptical but critical at the early stages, but which we now support. Therefore, I commend both Ministers and their teams for the work they have done. Personally speaking, I think the Bill is in a much better position. For the benefit of our regulators and those who receive services that the professions operate, it is a better Bill as a result.

[Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, for his kind words; I will certainly try to continue to do my best at the Dispatch Box. I also thank the noble Baroness, Lady Blake of Leeds, for her amendment. In Committee, the House sought confirmation that professionals who have already had their qualifications recognised in the UK will be able to continue to rely on those recognition decisions. Indeed, those professionals will be able to continue to do so, provided of course that they meet any ongoing practice requirements. Nothing in the Bill, nor the regulations anticipated under it, will interfere with or reverse such decisions.

Regulations commencing Clause 5 will include saving and transitional provisions to ensure that professionals’ existing recognition will continue to be valid, and applications made before revocation comes into effect by the commencement regulations will continue to be assessed under the relevant retained EU recognition law. It is possible to make similar provisions in regulations under Clause 6.

The noble Baroness, Lady Blake, asked what a smooth transition would look like. It will include regulations which ensure that the UK meets its international obligations under the EU-UK withdrawal agreement, EEA EFTA separation agreement and the UK Swiss citizens’ rights agreement. It includes saving and transitional provisions to ensure that professionals’ existing recognition will continue to be valid, and applications made before revocation has commenced will be assessed under the EU system. Commencement of Clause 5(1) is timed to avoid burdening regulators or creating gaps in their ability to recognise overseas qualifications. The Government took a similar approach when amending retained EU recognition law in 2019 to ensure a smooth transition for businesses and professionals following the UK’s withdrawal from the EU.

The noble Baroness also asked why, if we are so committed to protecting the ability of those with existing recognised qualifications to continue practising, we are not putting this on the face of the Bill. We believe that this matter is best dealt with through saving and transitional provisions in secondary legislation. The UK Government and devolved Administrations took this approach when amending EU legislation on recognition of professional qualifications to prepare for leaving the EU. We see no reason to depart from this approach and enshrine this commitment in the Bill.

The revocation of the general EU-derived system will not impact the ability of professionals with recognition decisions awarded under that system to continue practising in the UK. This applies even where a professional takes a career break and chooses to return to a profession in which they were awarded recognition. The noble Lord, Lord Purvis of Tweed, asked about the fast-tracked settled status of EU citizens. We are unable to provide the House with the precise timetable at present, but we will engage with stakeholders as we go forward.

Professionals who do take a career break should check with their regulator to establish what, if anything, they will need to do to continue practising or to return to practice. This will of course vary between professions. If a profession has a continuing practice requirement, that will also apply for individuals currently practising. For example, where a registered medical professional has a licence to practise, they must revalidate their registration every five years. Similarly, when a professional returns to the UK, their first port of call would be to the relevant regulator in the UK to ascertain requirements for recognition.

The Bill does not make commitments in these areas, because that would be interfering with regulators’ ability to regulate. The main reason that this amendment has been proposed is to protect those with recognition decisions, but there is no threat from this Bill to those decisions. The Professional Qualifications Bill respects existing recognition decisions and any ability a regulator has to set professional standards. I therefore ask the noble Baroness to withdraw this amendment, if I have provided sufficient reassurance.

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for her response, and the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, for his comments.

I think I can honestly say that there is still concern. I have heard it particularly from those professionals who are not practising at the moment—so there is a continual need for reassurance. However, I thank the Minister for her comments and beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Professional Qualifications Bill [HL]

Debate between Baroness Blake of Leeds and Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist

Committee stage
Tuesday 22nd June 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

This has been an interesting debate, especially for those of us who are only just beginning to get to grips with the whole process of affirmative and negative procedures. I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, for her explanation and the clarity with which she gave her understanding of why she has put forward the amendment. Clearly the Minister needs to explain why a distinction has been drawn and why the Government believe it is necessary.

As we have heard, Clause 15 states:

“Regulations under this Act are subject to the affirmative resolution procedure where they contain provision amending, repealing or revoking primary legislation or retained direct principal EU legislation”—


otherwise, regulations are negative. Amendment 58, in the names of the noble Baronesses, Lady Randerson and Lady Bennett, seeks to ensure that all regulations made under the Act will be subject to the affirmative procedure. As the noble Lord, Lord Moynihan, stated, the Delegated Powers Committee has raised similar concerns, stating, for example, that the power in Clause 10(4), which is subject only to the negative procedure, was “inappropriate”.

There seems to be a recurring theme throughout the discussions and debates that we are having as we go through these procedures: namely, that we must ensure that Parliament is not sidelined and that appropriate parliamentary scrutiny can take place. How many negative SIs does the Minister expect to come before Parliament in the first year after Royal Assent?

On Amendments 65, 66 and 67, I thank the noble Lords, Lord Purvis and Lord Fox, for putting forward the idea of one-year delay to revoking retained EU legislation, and I thank the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, for his detailed explanation of why that could be an attractive route to follow. I would like the Minister to explain whether this was ever considered. Indeed, would it give the regulators time to raise funds to cover any additional costs, or—to return to the theme of unease around so many areas of the Bill—is the Minister only worried about how a one-year delay could affect the UK’s pursuit of trade agreements?

[Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, and the noble Lord, Lord Purvis of Tweed, for their proposed amendments. As we have heard in this debate, the amendments concern parliamentary procedure for regulations made under the Bill and, separately, the timings for the revocation of relevant retained EU law. I note the concerns raised by almost all noble Lords who have participated in this debate about the use of delegated powers.

The Government have carefully considered the powers in the Bill and consider that they are necessary and justified. It would be unfeasible to specify in the Bill detailed amendments to a large number of pieces of primary and secondary legislation. In respect of certain policies, there is a need for flexibility to make changes over time. For example, the Bill takes a power to implement international agreements so far as they relate to the recognition of professional qualifications, the content and timing of which will depend on the outcome of trade negotiations.

On trade negotiations, I reiterate that the UK’s offer to potential trade partners on the recognition of professional qualifications depends on many factors, including the size of the potential market for the export of professional services. On the concerns addressed by the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, I reiterate my noble friend’s comments about the status of the Australian trade deal. I understand the noble Baroness’s concerns, but I feel that we should probably wait for the final text to be issued.

I will start with Amendment 58, which I note the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett of Manor Castle, supports. The amendment would have the effect that all regulations made under the Bill would be subject to the affirmative procedure. Clause 15 sets out the parliamentary procedure for how regulations under the Bill should be made. The clause already provides that any regulation amending, repealing or revoking primary legislation or retained direct principal EU legislation is subject to the affirmative procedure. It is right that Parliament has the appropriate scrutiny of such regulations.

The clause goes on to set out that the negative procedure should be used for other, more technical regulations. Further, as an additional safeguard, the Bill provides that regulations subject to the negative procedure may be made also subject to the affirmative procedure where required. For example, regulations made under Clause 10(4), in relation to the duty placed on UK regulators under that clause to provide requested information to their overseas counterparts, would be made under the negative procedure. Those regulations may make provision in connection with that duty—for example, in relation to the timeframe in which the duty is to be complied with. The negative procedure is clearly more fitting in these instances and will provide an appropriate scrutiny for such measures.

I turn to Amendments 65, 66 and 67, which propose a minimum of 12 months before revoking relevant retained EU law. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Purvis of Tweed, for tabling these amendments, and I note that the noble Lord, Lord Fox, supports them. We have already discussed at length the core professionals whose qualifications and experience have been gained overseas, reflecting our status outside the EU single market and our global outlook. Clauses 5 and 6 play a key role in doing that. The details of those clauses were addressed on day 2 of Committee, so I will not repeat them now, but I will repeat what my noble friend the Minister said about the timing of commencement regulations for these clauses and his assurance to noble Lords that the Government have no intention of rushing this.

The Government will consider carefully when to implement commencement regulations to revoke the EU-derived system under Clause 5(1). In order to support a coherent legislative framework while making sure that decisions are taken at the right time for the professions affected, there will need to be appropriate prior engagement with the devolved Administrations, regulators and other interested parties. Likewise, Clause 6 provides for the revocation of other retained EU law by the appropriate national authority, and I would expect there to be appropriate engagement from all such authorities with regulators. As a result, I am confident that the Bill will come into force in an orderly manner with no surprises for regulators, and that it will not bring with it such wholesale changes for which the regulators would need a year to prepare if regulations were to be made before that period had elapsed. I hope that has allayed some of the concerns of the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, that we were passing legislation before we had our policy ducks in a row.

I hope my explanations on these points have provided appropriate reassurance and I ask that the amendment be withdrawn. Lastly, I apologise to the noble Baroness, Lady Blake, but perhaps I could write to her with specific answers to her questions.

Professional Qualifications Bill [HL]

Debate between Baroness Blake of Leeds and Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist

Committee stage
Monday 14th June 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist (Con)]

I do not agree that that is a contradiction. This would have the effect of weakening the standards in audit reform, which we are keen to prevent—so I do not agree with the premise of my noble friend’s question.

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for her full response. I particularly thank the noble Baroness, Lady Noakes, for reminding me of the many hours of excitement that I have ahead of me in this place and thank her for her suggested wording. I also welcome the reminder from the noble Lord, Lord Palmer, of the shortcomings in this particular area.

We keep mentioning the word “assuage”, which I do not think I have ever come across quite so much in my life before. I looked up “assuage” and it referred to the easing of grief. I am not sure that my particular grief in this area has been eased by this. There is a great deal in the answers that we will look at. I am sure we will revisit this very important, if technical, area in the meetings ahead, and I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.