Brexit

Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top Excerpts

Saturday 19th October 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top (Lab)]

My Lords, I am fascinated to follow the noble Lord. I profoundly disagree with a range of things he said. He started by asking what the position would be if the referendum had gone the other way. That was made extremely clear to us. Nigel Farage said, “If this goes the wrong way, the campaign for the next stage will begin immediately and we will continue with that”. The reality is that we are in this position because the Tory party was frightened of Nigel Farage and the people in ERG; that is why we have ended up in this ridiculous mess.

However, I will start with the changed arrangements on regulatory alignment. The reason for them being changed can only be the glorious rhetorical pleasing of the ERG, because as soon as we move out of regulatory alignment, that will put our manufacturing industry—particularly where there is inward investment, with reliance on a complex supply chain and with most of the exports going to Europe—in real danger. That is my response to what the noble Lord, Lord Howard, said.

In my region, we have rebuilt from the loss of the pits, the shipyards and the steelworks. We have rebuilt our economy around inward investment and complex manufacturing programmes. Whether it is steam, the railways—tomorrow, I will be going on the new Azuma, built and constructed in Newton Aycliffe—or Nissan cars, the intricacy of the relationship between what regulatory alignment means and the ability to get the supply chain in the way it wants means that, yes, on the certainty of this deal, companies are now beginning to say, “We cannot progress and further invest if that is the road the UK is taking”. Have the Government done an impact assessment for the manufacturing industry, particularly for the sort of manufacturing industry that I have just described? I suspect that they have not.

I confess that I am bewildered by the arguments around taking back control and sovereignty. As my noble friend Lord Reid said, the only way that we can survive is by recognising and understanding the interconnectivity of this world. To say that we can go back to a glorious past where we can maintain relationships on our own is naive and, quite honestly, offensive to the way in which some of those other countries have tried to make accommodations—not from their hard-line, personal, individual positions but from trying to make partnerships and relationships because they recognise that, in such a complex and interconnected world, it is only through working with others very firmly that we will ever be able to make progress.

The other thing is that this is a con. I was very moved by the words of the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Leeds. This is about our culture. It is about who we are and our values. “Little England” does not describe it because, apparently, “Little England” does not include the north-east of England. It is also about what we mean by “democracy”. Over two years ago, I begged the Government to do more to consult properly and work with people, to make sure that they knew how people really felt and what they really wanted. I spend a lot of time with people from the citizens’ assembly that was conducted by, I think, King’s—either King’s or University College. People’s views changed—all of them—because they began to understand the different issues. We have never allowed that of the British people. We could have done it and we should have done it—and because we have not done it, we have an absolute responsibility and no option but to go back to them now, to let them see where the original referendum has led to and to give them the opportunity to ask, “Did we get it right? Did we not? Will this lead us to the sort of country that I want to live in?”

European Union (Withdrawal) (No. 2) Act 2019

Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top Excerpts

Thursday 26th September 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

My Lords, the right reverend Prelate makes an important point. We should always be restrained in our use of language. I believe I have always followed that principle, albeit that I enjoy the knockabout sport of politics, as many noble Lords do. However, there must always be a limit to that. I also wholeheartedly endorse his comments about respect for the institutions.

[Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top (Lab)]

My Lords, is it not clear that once an Act of Parliament is an Act of Parliament, it becomes the responsibility of the Government of the day to make sure that it is implemented properly, effectively and with integrity? That is what Parliament expects. I was part of the usual channels in the other place and worked with people here; I know that even if the Government get a Bill that they do not like, they have a responsibility to implement that Bill. Will the Minister recognise that what we are asking for is straightforward but requires integrity? The Government are in a position where they would do themselves a lot of good to demonstrate some integrity today.

[Lord Callanan]

I did not detect a question in the noble Baroness’s statement, but we of course respect the rule of law. We believe that we act with integrity and I believe that I act with integrity as a Minister. I will always seek to ensure that we act within the rule of law.

Brexit: Gibraltar

Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top Excerpts

Monday 29th April 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

All the overseas territories and British dependencies have been closely involved in the negotiations; we have regular meetings to consult them about the process of EU withdrawal.

[Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top (Lab)]

My Lords, does the Minister recognise the great negotiating skills that the Chief Minister of Gibraltar, Fabian Picardo, has shown on basic agreements made by the Spanish Government about long-standing issues he hoped they could move forward with? The problem is that the British Government have let Gibraltar down phenomenally. I agree that he supported the withdrawal agreement, but the Chief Minister now says that really the only option for Gibraltar—an area of British territory that voted 94% to remain in the EU—is to restart this whole thing. Instead of playing party politics, will the Minister understand that this is a serious issue for everyone, in this country as well as in Gibraltar and the overseas territories? Will he recognise that he needs to take a more humble approach and that the Government need to show leadership in a way that has not happened to date?

[Lord Callanan]

I am very happy to agree with the first part of the noble Baroness’s question, when she asked me to pay tribute to the work of the Chief Minister. I think he has done an excellent job, and we have worked closely with him in pursuing discussions with the Kingdom of Spain. In fact, with the full agreement of the Government of Gibraltar, we concluded a taxation treaty between ourselves and Spain only recently.

Brexit: Withdrawal Agreement and Political Declaration

Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top Excerpts

Monday 14th January 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top (Lab)]

My Lords, we have seen a very long and extended debate. There are lots of things I wanted to cover, but will now not do so, as they have been so eloquently dealt with by previous speakers. I have continued to take an interest in the challenge of Brexit and the Northern Ireland peace process, and it is not the backstop that I object to in the withdrawal agreement. I supported the Government agreeing to the backstop in the agreement they initially made in November 2017, so I do not object to it now.

In many parts of the country, including the area I regard as home—the north-east of England—the Brexit vote was driven by a sense of loss: loss of industrial jobs, opportunity, prospects and prosperity. We have to appreciate that sense of loss, and do so with leadership that offers some answers and ways forward, rather than simply encouraging people to find something or someone to blame.

The referendum was not exactly this country’s finest hour. Once the vote had taken place, it was clearly a choice between a complete break, with all the consequences of a hard border between the north and south of Ireland, and huge economic and industrial disruption, or a rule-taking Brexit, in which we left legally speaking, but still obeyed most of the rules and had to make financial contributions. It was, in the words of one of my colleagues in the Commons,

“a choice between a Brexit that raised the question of what is the price, and a Brexit that raised the question of what is the point”.—[Official Report, Commons, 9/1/19; col. 456.]

We cannot have all of the current advantages of EU membership at the same time as the freedoms promised by the leave campaign. That the Government have never been honest with the British people is at the heart of the chaos and disillusionment we face today. This debate seems to have been going on, and has been going on, for more than my political life. Indeed, the noble Baroness, Lady Boothroyd, mentioned being in the Whips’ Office in Harold Wilson’s time. My father was in the Whips’ Office with her, and I was hearing all those arguments at home. As always, the chaos and disillusionment are not because of putting the national interest first; they have far more to do with the internal politics of the Conservative Party. We know that whatever happens, there is now to be a long period of debate and negotiation in front of us. If the Prime Minister wins, the political declaration demonstrates that long, tortuous process.

In these circumstances, I wanted to speak about something I raised with the then Secretary of State, David Davis. He was not able to deal with it, saying he did not understand, and would see me about it. I perfectly understand he was too busy, but I then asked Parliamentary Questions. I was interested in how the Government were going to engage with the British public about the issues that matter to them when they voted, and how they wanted the Government to move forward. If we have learned anything in the past few months, I hope it is that democracy is changing. Those of us involved in democratic institutions have a particular responsibility to work on renewing how people participate in democracy and express their views. Voting, on its own, in general elections or referenda, is no longer enough.

Brexit is the most significant decision of this generation. It is also one of the most complex set of decisions I have experienced. This is a prime opportunity for us to develop more deliberative democracy. I have become convinced that we need a second referendum, for reasons others have mentioned, but also because we have not effectively involved the public in the considerations about Brexit. The Constitution Unit at UCL held a citizens’ assembly in 2017 over two weekends, first identifying the issues, and then looking at those issues and potential ways forward. All the participants talked of how much they got out of the process, their learning, and how useful it was. I hoped the Government would learn from this, and indeed from other countries that effectively use deliberative democracy in the consideration of difficult issues. Who would have thought that the Republic of Ireland would agree gay marriage and abortion legislation in referenda? It did it through a deliberative process.

The Government have been so inwardly focused that they have missed ways of moving Brexit forward in a way that includes those people who voted in the referendum. The public are fed up. They continue to feel they are irrelevant in the debate, and that they will pay the price of this deal. Let us be honest: they have been let down, and we cannot guarantee their prosperity in the future with this deal. Let us stop the threats and intimidation, and recognise that things are so different from what people were promised during the referendum, or indeed during the preparations for Article 50. We now need to involve the public in the issues and ways forward in a deliberative way, through such exercises as citizens’ assemblies. The Irish used them to construct the question. Maybe we have to have the courage to involve people in this way in setting the question for a new referendum. Contrary to what many say, I believe that if we do that we might just begin to restore faith in democracy.

Brexit: Proposed Agreement

Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top Excerpts

Wednesday 14th November 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

The noble Baroness says that she wants to see the text, but she has already decided what it says before she has seen it, which is of course typical of the attitude of the Liberal Democrats—they have decided what they believe before they see the final deal. The Cabinet is meeting this afternoon to consider the draft agreement that the negotiating teams have reached in Brussels and will decide on the next steps in the national interest.

[Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top (Lab)]

My Lords, I congratulate the Minister on trying to bring everyone together. Does he appreciate, and agree, that there are 2 million people who will be much more affected than he or I will be by whatever deal the Government are considering and whatever deal is accepted? They were not allowed to vote in the referendum, but they would be entitled to vote today. Do they not deserve a say?

Brexit: Trade in Goods (EUC Report)

Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top Excerpts

Tuesday 18th July 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top (Lab)]

My Lords, I want to pay tribute to the chair, the noble Baroness, Lady Verma, and the staff who support the committee. We enjoyed the inquiry, although it was a bit scary—and the more we did, the more scary it became. I regret that the Government have not managed yet to respond, as the noble Baroness, Lady Verma, said, because that adds to the feeling that they are overwhelmed by the task that faces us. I am afraid that that feeling goes far beyond members of our committee and Members of this House; it is there among stakeholders, too. As others have said, decisions have been made among businesses that are already going to affect trade and job opportunities in this country.

It looks as if the EU has a strategic plan. In fact, it prepared for a Brexit decision. The British Government did not—and I wish that I had confidence that they have been able to develop a clear strategic plan, with all the detail that is necessary to go behind any good strategic plan. It really looks as if government is lurching from tactical position to tactical position, with no strategic framework that the rest of us can discern.

I do not think that it is an accident that there are three Members from the north-east here today, and noble Lords will hear from all three of us within about half an hour. I am followed by the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, and of course was preceded by my noble friend Lady Quin. I want to be careful to not just say what they will say or have said or what I have said in previous debates. However, the region does have the highest proportion of its GDP in exports to the EU and a very high proportion of its economy is involved in trade with it. The importance of manufacturing to the north-east is absolutely clear but, as the noble Lord, Lord Howell, said, anyone—and particularly the automotive industry—thinking about manufacturing can see just how intertwined it is with services. The relationship is complex; it is not easily divided or separated. Nor is it easy to separate the chain of activity that goes way beyond one country, let alone one city.

The city of Sunderland, in which Nissan is located, and South Tyneside council, which is very near to its plant, have been working together to develop what they call an international advanced manufacturing park on the outskirts of the current Nissan plant, which would enable other manufacturers allied to high-value automotive manufacturing to locate there and develop new business activity. One of the ambitions is for much more of the whole car to be built in Sunderland but even with that the issue of country of origin does not go away. During the preparation of this report and our previous one it became evident just how important that is for free trade. It is important even if we are not in the single market, and I will come to that point later.

Country of origin will be an issue, whatever the nature of our trade, as will the availability of skilled labour and equivalence in our regulatory regime—something that we all hate to go on about, but which is very important. Along with that equivalence needs to go an agreed mediation system. Are we going to be ready with all of that in 18 months? I suspect not. The Government have said that they do not want a sector-by-sector trade deal but a comprehensive free trade one. The view of the International Trade Secretary seems to be that we can prosper with trade outside the EU and, indeed, outside the countries that have a trade deal with it, which would demand another route too. At its best, it will be extremely difficult to get to equivalent levels of trade with countries other than the EU bloc and those it already has trade deals with. It is also going against the reality that we will still be part of Europe even when we have left the EU, for all sorts of reasons that I do not have to explain to a Foreign Office Minister. We have to be on good terms with our neighbours in Europe.

The blasé view that it is all going to be straightforward and that if the EU makes it difficult we can move beyond it will be disastrous for the north-east. People in the region need the Government to be fully active now in consultation with local authorities, businesses and other stakeholders in the region, in preparation for the negotiations on trade. They need the Government to be clear about the transition agreement and I agree with what other noble Lords have said on that. They also need the Government to get on with taking decisions on the industrial strategy now. If the regions are to prepare for life outside the European Union, they need to develop the infrastructure and other things that they need to survive. That means that the Government have to get on with their industrial strategy so that at least there is clarity around the money that will be received in places that have to construct an alternative way forward. The key cities have produced a response which reminds us and the Government that devolving resources and decisions is critical if we are to have a growing and more-balanced economy that brings more balance and equity to our country.

The response from Sunderland and South Tyneside to the Green Paper on the industrial strategy concentrates on the international advanced manufacturing park. They see that as critical to their determination to grow the economy and develop sustainable, quality jobs. The Government must get on with responding to the Green Paper responses and begin to take decisions. They also need to ensure that they work with businesses, further education colleges and local authorities to up the game on skills development. As I said in a previous debate, the north-east still has a skills gap, largely because young people are still leaving the region. That means that our skills training and support is simply not good enough and we are not keeping them in the region. Virtually no attention was paid to that point during the election campaign but it was raised again and again in the evidence submitted to the committee. I hope that this debate helps the Government to make the decision to give regions such as the north-east confidence and support in meeting their ambition to grow their economies and at least retain their existing businesses.

In my previous speech I made it clear that I support our membership of the single market and the customs union. I support what others have said about that today. I have heard nothing from the Government that persuades me that they have anything like an acceptable alternative which will give certainty to business and enable regions such as the north-east to trade effectively with the European Union.

The report makes it clear that huge challenges face the country in relation to its trade following Brexit. It is the Government’s task to turn those challenges into opportunities. That will not happen by pretending that this will all be easy and straightforward. We will only begin to get anywhere near that if the Government engage much more seriously with people here and in the regions, people in business and the public, and negotiate in a much more open and confident way than we have seen to date. I have a lot of respect for the Minister and know that she will not try to put us off in the way that I am afraid I felt was the case when the Secretary of State appeared before the Select Committee last week. This is an issue on which we need clarity and decisions from the Government; otherwise, the future for regions such as the north-east is very bleak indeed.