Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Angela Rayner and Alex Burghart

Thursday 22nd June 2023 Commons Chamber

[Angela Rayner (Ashton-under-Lyne) (Lab)]

Thank you; good morning, Mr Speaker.

I frequently stand at this Dispatch Box and ask the Minister about value for taxpayers’ money, because his Department is responsible for making sure that every penny is treated with the respect it deserves, especially during the cost of living crisis. With that in mind, can he give us an official estimate of the total cost of fraud to the UK across all sectors in 2022?

[Alex Burghart]

We are engaged in a constant battle against fraud. We do so with colleagues across Whitehall, and particularly in the Department for Work and Pensions and the Treasury. I look forward to the right hon. Lady’s next question.

[Angela Rayner]

I thank the Minister for that non-answer, but the public deserve to know. While he ducks and dives the question, I have discovered the answer. At a conference in Portsmouth last week, the UK fraud costs measurement committee distributed hard copies of its new report with a fresh new estimate: £219 billion is lost each year as a result of fraud. That is equivalent to this year’s entire central Government running costs budget for health, defence and policing put together. The figure does not even include covid fraud. Can he tell me how much of that money he has clawed back?

[Alex Burghart]

We have established the Public Sector Fraud Authority to clamp down on fraud. As a former DWP Minister, I assure the right hon. Lady that this Government go after fraud wherever it is found. Every time we find new opportunities for fraud, we come forward with new means of clamping down on them. We are a Government committed to efficiency, which we are delivering. As the right hon. Lady will have heard me say in answer to the first question this morning, the Cabinet Office, in the most recent financial year for which figures are available, delivered £3.4 billion-worth of savings to the British taxpayer. That is work we will continue to do.

Counsellors of State Bill [Lords]

Debate between Angela Rayner and Alex Burghart

2nd reading
Thursday 1st December 2022 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Alex Burghart)]

It is a genuine pleasure to close a Second Reading debate in which there has been such consensus, and concise consensus at that. At times, as we have seen, that consensus has lapsed into adoration.

[Angela Rayner]

You’ll feel it one day!

[Alex Burghart]

One day, maybe—who knows?

As several hon. Members pointed out, the Bill is a necessary short piece of legislation that brings resilience to our constitutional arrangements and does so at speed. It was necessary that we brought a short Bill before Parliament to get the measures through quickly. The reason for that is, as we all know, His Majesty will soon start to travel in the fulfilment of his duties to the country, so we wanted to have things in place as quickly as possible. I am grateful to the right hon. Member for Ashton-under-Lyne (Angela Rayner) for recognising that and paying tribute to the two new Counsellors of State whom we are appointing today and to how respected they already are. She is right to point to the Regency Act and the fact that the royal household has confirmed that Counsellors of State will only be working royals.

I also pay tribute to my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Northampton North (Michael Ellis). Little can be added to his speech, because there is little that anyone can teach him about the workings of our constitution. He was an illustrious member of the Front-Bench team and an extremely well informed Minister in the Cabinet Office. I know that some of his expertise was brought to bear in the design and drafting of the legislation, and I am grateful to him for that.

I also thank the hon. Member for Argyll and Bute (Brendan O'Hara), who spoke from the SNP Front Bench. He raised a point about the order of precedence. Obviously, the law of succession was changed a few years ago to enable girls born to the sovereign to inherit, but that did not change the existing order of succession. That is why the Princess Royal and the Earl of Wessex feature in the order in which they do. In addition, I thank my right hon. Friend the Member for Ludlow (Philip Dunne) for his remarks and concur with what he said.

I am delighted that we have heard in the debate how the Bill commands considerable support in the House, as it did in the other place. I know that this Parliament will wish to be of assistance and support to our sovereign as he goes about his duties.

Question put and agreed to.

Bill accordingly read a Second time; to stand committed to a Committee of the whole House (Order, this day).

Independent Adviser on Ministerial Interests

Debate between Angela Rayner and Alex Burghart

Wednesday 30th November 2022 Commons Chamber

[Angela Rayner (Ashton-under-Lyne) (Lab)]

(Urgent Question): To ask the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster if he will provide an update on the appointment of an independent adviser on ministerial interests and enforcement of the ministerial code.

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Alex Burghart)]

The Government welcome the opportunity to stress again the importance of the role of the independent adviser and this Government’s commitment to it. The Prime Minister has been very clear that the appointment of a new independent adviser is a priority and that the appointment process is under way. Hon. Members will understand that an appointment of this nature is significant and has to be done well. Much as hon. Members might wish me to, it would not be appropriate for me to comment further on specifics of what is an ongoing appointments process. Let me assure hon. Members: the adjudication of issues of ministerial conduct does not stop because the independent adviser is not yet in post. Conduct matters and conduct issues will be dealt with quickly and appropriately, irrespective of that appointment process.

That is what hon. Members will have seen with regard to complaints made against the Deputy Prime Minister. On receipt of formal complaints by the Cabinet Office, the Prime Minister requested that an independent investigation be conducted by an individual from outside Government, and Adam Tolley KC has been appointed to conduct the investigation. The terms of reference have now been published. The process is under way, and Mr Tolley will provide his report to the PM in due course. It is right that these matters are investigated fully, but it would not be right to comment further on them when that process is ongoing.

I would also like to reassure hon. Members that the process of managing the interests of Ministers continues in the absence of an independent adviser. The permanent secretary, as the policy expert on each Department’s remit, leads the process in their Department in the absence of an independent adviser. The Cabinet Office is able to provide advice in line with precedent. All relevant interests are declared by Ministers upon taking office and are kept up to date at all times. The publication of the list of Ministers’ interests is the end point of the ministerial interests process, and it takes place at regular intervals to make the public aware of the relevant interests of Ministers.

I will end by reiterating that as soon as there is an update on the process to appoint an independent adviser on Ministers’ interests, the Government will update the House.

[Angela Rayner]

Thank you, Mr Speaker, for granting this urgent question.

How many times have I heard, “Soon; jam tomorrow; mañana, mañana”? We need the Prime Minister, who promised to appoint an independent ethics adviser as one of his first acts, to actually deal with this issue. Yet despite Ministers being accused of bullying and intimidation, or being reappointed despite security breaches, there is still no adviser. It is clear that ethics and integrity are not a priority for the Government, despite the Prime Minister’s words.

We are told that recruitment is under way, but apparently no one will accept this poisoned chalice. So can the Minister tell us how many candidates have been approached and how many have refused the job? Will the Prime Minister follow his disgraced predecessors by denying the so-called independent adviser the power to launch their own investigations? Or does he have no plan to restore standards? Will he just preserve the rotten regime that he inherited?

What on earth is the system in the meantime? Who will investigate the allegations of Islamophobia made by one serving Minister against another? The Minister mentioned the Deputy Prime Minister, who had to demand an investigation into himself because the Prime Minister was too weak to do so. How many formal complaints have now been made? The Minister mentions Adam Tolley. Why is he not allowed to proactively investigate the so-called informal complaints? Will he investigate allegations made by the former permanent secretary? And who will finally get to the bottom of the dangerous use of private emails by Ministers?

No. 10 said in reference to the Home Secretary that it could not investigate breaches under previous Administrations. But that is what is happening now with the Deputy Prime Minister, so why not? Why now is there an excuse for refusing to investigate the Home Secretary’s breach? Will the Prime Minister appoint a truly independent watchdog?

[Alex Burghart]

It is wonderful to hear the right hon. Lady’s interest in this matter today. As it happens, we had a debate on this very issue in Westminster Hall yesterday. The House will be shocked to hear—