Criminal Justice and Courts Bill

Debate between Andy Slaughter and Rehman Chishti

Monday 12th May 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Slaughter]

I am grateful for the hon. Gentleman’s comments, but he is misunderstanding me slightly. We do not oppose new clause 14. I would wish to have seen it remain part of the review, because of the arguments I have put forward about the substantial overlap with a number of other offences, most of which were introduced by the previous Labour Government in a previous review—I think we are all agreed that that was necessary. We do not disagree that a review is needed now, but our new offence is of a different type and serves a different and, we say, a more effective purpose in discouraging drivers who are tempted to drive while disqualified. What the Government are doing—it may be right, but let us see it “in the round”, as the Minister would say—is looking at the more serious offences, where there has to be a balance between the nature of the offence and the maximum penalty.

[Rehman Chishti]

I agree entirely with the hon. Gentleman that the six-month sentence for repeat offenders who drive while disqualified is completely wrong, and I put that view forward in a private Member’s Bill in December. There was a reason why driving while disqualified was moved away from being an “either way” offence to being a summary offence: these cases may have taken up a lot of court time. Does he agree that a way to overcome that is to have the matter tried and dealt with at the magistrates court, and for the magistrate to have the discretion to refer repeat offences to the Crown court for a sentence of up to two years? That would deal with the problem. If those repeat offenders are not dealt with at an early stage, we should not then say, “Tough sentence at the end”; they can be dealt with at the lower end.

[Mr Slaughter]

I do not know whether the hon. Gentleman needs to make a speech now. I do not disagree with him—there is a strong measure of agreement here—but he is proposing a complicated resolution whereas we are proposing something more straightforward. It will certainly be a help if the Government get their act together and implement the part of the 2003 Act which will allow magistrates to sentence for 12 months for a single offence, although we still think that that is insufficient for this offence. If repeat offenders plead guilty and are released at the halfway point of sentence, they are likely to serve no more than eight weeks, however many times they have previously been disqualified. Tougher sentences for this offence will act as a deterrent, warning others that driving while disqualified is unacceptable; stamping out driving while disqualified before death or serious injury is caused is Labour’s priority.

A two-year maximum sentence for those serial offenders means that they can expect to spend up to four times longer in prison than is the case now—and of course they would be off the road for all that time. There should not be much difference between the parties on these issues. As I say, we do not oppose the Secretary of State’s new clause 14, despite our reservations, but we would like the Government to support our new clause 22. If they do not, we will put it to a vote of the House; unless the Secretary of State can give me some assurance that they will either support that or at least push those views forward in the review he is doing, we would wish to vote on that matter.

[Rehman Chishti]

I am listening to what the hon. Gentleman is saying. He said that what I put forward in a private Member’s Bill is complicated. How is it complicated, given that we both agree about repeat offenders? In 2012, 42% of the 7,000 who were sentenced were repeat offenders, with 23% having offended more than three times. It is repeat offenders who pose the risk and who are likely to get two years. Why can we not trust the magistrates to deal with this and then send it to the Crown court? That would stop the Crown court being clogged up. Let us trust the magistrates.

[Mr Slaughter]

With respect, I do not think the Crown court is going to be clogged up. We are talking about different ways of skinning the same cat, so if we do go to a vote, I look forward to the hon. Gentleman joining us in the Lobby.

Let me briefly deal with the other matters in this group. I commend the amendments standing in the names of my hon. Friends the Members for Bolton West (Julie Hilling) and for Wythenshawe and Sale East (Mike Kane). They were discussed in Committee—the Opposition are very disciplined about these matters—and I remain hopeful that the Government will see fit to accept them at some stage. They deal with the egregious issue of multiple offenders escaping “totting up” bans because the courts either do not have the requisite information from the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency in front of them or are, unknown to them, being told the same sob story for the fourth or fifth time. As a result, there are still people driving with two or three times the 12 points that should have seen them banned. There is no connection between those matters and new clauses 10 and 11. Both deal with serious matters, but it is puzzling that, once again, they have been shoehorned into the Bill at this stage. However, let me deal with them briefly.

The murder of a police officer is a heinous crime, and 13 police officers have been killed in the line of duty since 2000. The courts already take their sentencing powers very seriously, and the starting point for this is 30 years. The killers of Sharon Beshenivsky received 35 years each, the murderer of PC Ian Broadhurst received 37 years and the murderer of PCs Fiona Bone and Nicola Hughes received a whole life sentence. The courts are already effectively exerting these powers, but we have no objection to the clarification, if I may put it that way, that the Government wish to introduce, particularly, as the Minister has said, as judicial discretion will remain in these cases. Thankfully, this proposal is not going to affect many cases, but it deals with the most serious crimes that are committed.

Finally, new clause 11 is a sensible tidying measure. As the Minister says, it already applies to adult offences, so, although I am always puzzled to read the headlines in The Daily Telegraph, I was particularly puzzled to see a headline where the Secretary of State was saying, “We will toughen sentences for youth crime”. The new clause is sensible and we support it, but it is about giving more discretion to magistrates. It is about empowering magistrates courts to try cases where they might previously have felt that they had to second-guess the decision and commit the case to the Crown court; it is not about inflicting additional burdens on the Crown court, and I just wish the Government would not spin at every opportunity.

We have a good degree of consensus on this part of the debate and it would perhaps be complete consensus if the Government see reason and adopt our new clause 22. I know that the hon. Member for Gillingham and Rainham (Rehman Chishti) will agree with us, because his private Member’s Bill proposes much the same thing, but so would the Secretary of State, were he to grace us with his presence, because he has said:

“I want to make our roads safer and ensure people who cause harm face tough penalties. Disqualified drivers should not be on our roads for good reason. Those who chose to defy a ban imposed by a court and go on to destroy innocent lives must face serious consequences for the terrible impact of their actions.”

Let us take action against disqualified drivers at an early stage. I urge the Government to support new clause 22.

Aviation Strategy

Debate between Andy Slaughter and Rehman Chishti

Thursday 24th October 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Andy Slaughter (Hammersmith) (Lab)]

“Aviation Strategy” is a great title for a debate; what we are actually having is the “Is Heathrow going to get away with it yet again?” debate yet again. I fear that those at Heathrow might get away with it, as those of us in west London who have debated these issues with them over 30 years and seen how they operate think they might, because of political cowardice and the way in which politicians of all parties have given in to the airport lobby over that time.

Although we have had some excellent speeches today, I am somewhat surprised by that, because at the moment we have very little of substance to say that is new. The reason for that is partly the vacuum caused by the Airports Commission not reporting until after 2015, for no reason whatever other than political convenience. That has created a vacuum into which has floated the Mayor of London, with his frankly ludicrous suggestion of an estuary airport.

[Rehman Chishti]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Mr Slaughter]

I do not think I should.

Not only is the idea of an estuary airport distraction politics of the worst kind; it is now affecting Stansted as well. Because the Mayor has virtually abandoned the idea of an airport actually in the river, he is now looking at the four-runway option at Stansted as a fallback position, which has mesmerised those at Stansted, who cannot get on with their ordinary work.

The fact that we had three London airports in the same ownership for so long has constrained the debate and let BAA, as it was then, keep control of the argument. I still do not understand why so many politicians—this includes the last Labour Government—are mesmerised by the airports and airline industry, which are simply looking after their commercial advantage. That has happened to such an extent that the Conservatives in opposition were saying that HS2 should go via Heathrow. That was another mad suggestion, which slowed down high-speed rail, but it has now been abandoned.

We have been ill served by the debate so far—that goes not just for my constituents, but for the general public. Because Heathrow has been making the weather on this issue and because the other airports in the south-east have been so far behind the curve, it has been left to organisations such as HACAN—the Heathrow Association for the Control of Aircraft Noise, led by John Stewart—and community groups to provide the rationale and the arguments, which they have done admirably.

We are now faced with the prospect of two options. I do not have the time to go into this, but I am pleased that other colleagues have talked about the horrendous effects that Heathrow expansion would have, and not just on noise—the fact that 25% of those in the EU who are bothered by serious noise nuisance are from around Heathrow should rule out expansion alone. However, there is also the congestion and pollution, as well health and safety issues. Expansion is therefore simply unthinkable, but so is an estuary airport. Not only would an estuary airport be in the wrong place—hon. Members should see what the chambers of commerce have said about the prospect of that much public money going into such a white elephant; it is a ludicrous suggestion—but it would close Heathrow, as the Mayor of London, its chief cheerleader, says it would, or Heathrow would otherwise be reduced to the size of City airport.

That is not sustainable for either the west London or the UK economy, so why are we so hung up on this idea of a hub airport? In advocating expansion, I am not expert enough to say exactly how it would occur and where it would be possible in a city and a region that has five airports, but Gatwick, which is now making some money, Stansted and Heathrow should all get together and look at that proposal. Failing that, our politicians from all parties should get together, show leadership and put forward a proposal that can deliver short-term gains for public transport and free up the existing capacity and, in the longer term, deliver a network to serve the great capital city, rather than going for an expansion of Heathrow.

Transparency and Consistency of Sentencing

Debate between Andy Slaughter and Rehman Chishti

Thursday 2nd February 2012 Commons Chamber

[Paul Maynard (Blackpool North and Cleveleys) (Con)]

rose—

[Rehman Chishti]

rose—

[Mr Slaughter]

I will give way to the hon. Member for Gillingham and Rainham (Rehman Chishti).

[Rehman Chishti]

The hon. Gentleman talks of managed decline and the Thatcher and Major Governments, but will he explain why 80,000 people were released early from prison under the Labour Government? Those people were prosecuted—I was a prosecutor—and judges passed proper sentences, but they were let out early by Ministers. That was totally unacceptable.

[Mr Slaughter]

I took only two notes when the Lord Chancellor spoke, one of which was on that point. It was a bare-faced cheek for him to talk about the early release of prisoners by some days at the end of their sentences under the Labour Government and then immediately to decry indeterminate sentences for public protection, which ensure that violent and dangerous sex offenders are kept in prison until they are not a danger to the public. Does the hon. Member for Blackpool North and Cleveleys (Paul Maynard) want to intervene?